R3 vs Wellington Phoenix AAMI Park Saturday 21/10 5:35pm

[dconder13]

WSW 2-0 

[Dylan]

Terrible game but Jesus Bart is a find isn’t he?

[Shahanga]

Another grinding win for City. Once again we looked very hard to breakdown. Wasn't until late on that Wellington looked a threat and really they only had 2 chances worth talking about.

We didn't create much (anything?) apart from the free kick in the second half, but in the end that was enough. (Unlike the first half when we were the only side that looked like scoring).

We will be extremely hard to beat this year. It's a welcome change to be honest.

[Inferno]

I'll replay the game when I'm trying to sleep. 

[thisphantomfortress]

19 minutes ago, Dylan said:

Terrible game but Jesus Bart is a find isn’t he?

Was my MOTM, could go on to be our best pick up since Bruno 

[moops]

I missed the game, was really so dire?

I am watching the Sydney Derby from about the 40th minute, both these teams look very good.

[fensaddler]

We just about escaped using Plan A, but we were bloody lucky, and that looked far too much like last year's pedestrian performances.  The old story, far too slow in transition, and lacking creativity and fluency to unlock opposition defences.  The test will be whether we have a Plan B, otherwise a good start will fizzle out as it did last year.

[SF33]

I think that when looking for the positives from an underwhelming win (despite, of course, the fact that we actually have 'underwhelming' wins now, maybe for the first time ever), was again the defence. All of our defenders and Galekovic were absolutely superb again.

Everything else was incredibly patchy. Our corners were putrid and if all of our creativity is going to come from the wings, we need to see more Cahill.

[jw1739]

5 minutes ago, moops said:

I missed the game, was really so dire?

I am watching the Sydney Derby from about the 40th minute, both these teams look very good.

Dour, dire, disjointed, dismal - choose whichever adjective you want. It was all of them, and very difficult to sit through in terms of entertainment. But we got the three points in what in previous seasons would have been a banana skin match for us, and it seems churlish to complain. Several of our players were well below their best. We had no real forward line except McCormack. The defence looked solid for the most part, but was under pressure in the final 20 minutes. Poor attendance at 9,091 considering children could get in for free - probably influenced by the Caulfield Cup - not smart scheduling by FFA.

Take the points and move on. 

[Tony999]

Just now, jw1739 said:

Dour, dire, disjointed, dismal - choose whichever adjective you want. It was all of them, and very difficult to sit through in terms of entertainment. But we got the three points in what in previous seasons would have been a banana skin match for us, and it seems churlish to complain. Several of our players were well below their best. We had no real forward line except McCormack. The defence looked solid for the most part, but was under pressure in the final 20 minutes. Poor attendance at 9,091 considering children could get in for free - probably influenced by the Caulfield Cup - not smart scheduling by FFA.

Take the points and move on. 

Look at the Sydney derby now. The Melb derby had more. Crowds have dropped considerably this season. No suprise when you have idiots running it.

[Forever City]

Attendance 9,091.

[belaguttman]

2 hours ago, Geo400 said:

Hard to watch but 3 points is 3 points.

its going to be intriguing to see how we go when we travel interstate, will need a big lift.

I'm in Adelaide for a conference and went to the City B v visit0rs game last night, Adelaide is beatable on that performance, but we do travel oh so poorly. The next 2 weeks will tell us how our season will go

[Dylan]

One can only hope Wazza will start to actually develop our style now that we have bedded down our defensive abilities.

needs to make changes for Adelaide. Whole team bar the defence was very lethargic. Everyone kept missing Ross’ runs so we need an out and out 10 on the pitch

[HeartOfCity]

3 hours ago, Dylan said:

One can only hope Wazza will start to actually develop our style now that we have bedded down our defensive abilities.

needs to make changes for Adelaide. Whole team bar the defence was very lethargic. Everyone kept missing Ross’ runs so we need an out and out 10 on the pitch

I for one am happy to keep the defensive tactics for now until it really beds in and becomes ingrained so its second nature. I think we showed enough especially in the first half that we can attack quite well, its just that final ball and hesitation that kills us from scoring. I am really impressed with Malik and the change has been huge from last year. And the human wall LaRoca, I cant remember having such confidence in the back 3rd with himself and Bort.

[Jovan]

I've got real mixed emotions after last night and the first 3 games overall. 

Most importantly 3 wins to start a season and only conceeding 1 goal is a massive achievement and needs to applauded. 

But the actual spectacle and way we have achieved that was really hard to watch. That then poses the conundrum of weather results outweigh style/performance and that is a purely subjective discussion with no end. I'm hoping we can get to a point of both.

I find Wazzas approach and mentality refreshing after what we have accustomed to. But at some point maybe not even this season as a fan I will want more. 

So far the basic mantra coming out is that you don't change a winning team and selections are based on daily and match day performances which for the most part is a sound approach. It also could lead to a bit of stubbornness and create unnecessary outcomes. 

Basically the back 4 ( 5 Including Galekovic) have been faultless and as such can't really be changed if using the above ideology but that leaves the Leagues best defender playing out of position. Which is also another fundamental rule (for me at least ) to abide by, never play anyone out of position or play a player in an uncomfortable position if possible. So although Jakobsen has been impressive in that holding midfield role and has shown he is able to play it I just feel he is basically a defender and should only play in the back. Does he push out Jamieson? Or do we shift Bort across and drop Muscat?  Or ultimately do we drop our captain? Now the major reason for this mental gymnastics is our lacking of real creativity forward. We have a 20 million striker being wasted. Mauk is a different player but isn't a playmaker. I think alongside Malik who is also a new player would be a massive pairing in the middle and we need to bring in a combination of Budziński and Carusca to play as the #10. 

But all this is based on me from the outside looking in, and ultimately Wazza has earned my trust with 3 wins on the bounce and can continue to do as he sees fit (until he fucks it up obviously).

[mus-28]

Personally thought that Jamo and Muscat were pretty poor yesterday, particularly Jamo who's delivery was below Sunday league standard.

Not sure what the game plan is but if you play with 2 ultra defensive midfielders you need your full backs to support the attack and too often they were only happy to support the attack when our wingers had the ball in the final third and by that time Wellington already had a numerical overload to force the ball backwards. 

As for Malik, I've never seen a player give so many unnecessary hospital balls to teammates. He may be able to win the ball from the opposition, but it's all for nowt when he passes it back to them almost instantly. 

Very few positives to take from that other than Wellington somehow managed not to score and McCormack got off the mark.

[NewConvert]

I think that I am in the minority here. I actually enjoyed the game. I felt that Wellington came out to play and took the game right up to City. This meant that a lot of the game was played in our back half but the defense stood solid. There were no stupid fouls or penalties given. It now seems obligatory for hacks to chop Malik. However, the game did see-saw and perhaps more should have been expected of some those finishes. I was a bit frustrated with some of the attacking because players did teh team thing rather than having a shot when they could. Kudos the Phoenix 17 year old keeper as well.

[jw1739]

4 minutes ago, NewConvert said:

I think that I am in the minority here. I actually enjoyed the game. I felt that Wellington came out to play and took the game right up to City. This meant that a lot of the game was played in our back half but the defense stood solid. There were no stupid fouls or penalties given. It now seems obligatory for hacks to chop Malik. However, the game did see-saw and perhaps more should have been expected of some those finishes. I was a bit frustrated with some of the attacking because players did teh team thing rather than having a shot when they could. Kudos the Phoenix 17 year old keeper as well.

I think you must have been the only supporter still awake at half-time. Agree that we were solid in defence, but our control and passing when we tried to go forward was IMO appalling. How come every other team in the league can pass the ball around quickly, crisply and accurately and we can't?

Agree with you on Keegan Smith, the Wellington GK. Looks a real "find" to me. He's still in Year 12 at school. Only blemish was probably the way Wellington set up the wall for McCormack's free-kick.

[NewConvert]

1 hour ago, jw1739 said:

I think you must have been the only supporter still awake at half-time. Agree that we were solid in defence, but our control and passing when we tried to go forward was IMO appalling. How come every other team in the league can pass the ball around quickly, crisply and accurately and we can't?

Agree with you on Keegan Smith, the Wellington GK. Looks a real "find" to me. He's still in Year 12 at school. Only blemish was probably the way Wellington set up the wall for McCormack's free-kick.

later watching WSW and Sydney, you could see the difference of skills and how much further City needs to progress.

[malloy]

I would be surprised if Malik wasn't dropped for Kilkenny (if he isn't injured?) next week or even Budzinski.

[wombegongal]

Poor game to watch but we got the three points. For years people have been crowing that we need to win ugly. I'm not sure things are so bad up front, we just need to tweak the midfield mix. Let the unbeaten start roll on.

[jw1739]

Random statistic following the match: In the City era we've played 89 A-League (incl. finals) matches for a 42.7% win record.

[Dylan]

16 hours ago, haz said:

 

Not a bad stat is it? 

[japiedog]

agree with the sentiments, very difficult to watch , but 3 wins out of 3 , where in the past we would have drawn 2 and lost one

the lack of creativity in the midfield is a worry, a magic strike by Ross the Boss saved our arses, not much else looked like going in 

 

 

[bt50]

I thought Wellington's influence was grossly overstated on the broadcast. They didnt look like scoring at all until we did, bar the Kaludjerovic stuff up. Even after that we probably had just as many chances, and better ones at that, and should have put them away.

Hardly enterprising stuff from us, but always felt we had enough on the counter and that our chances were far better than theirs. Manny was great for mine but another solid defensive effort all round.

[Chris p]

16 hours ago, Tony999 said:

Look at the Sydney derby now. The Melb derby had more. Crowds have dropped considerably this season. No suprise when you have idiots running it.

 

When was the last time we got more than 9k to nix match ? 

[jw1739]

Last November. Sunday 27th November 2016. 10,644.

[Harrison]

5 hours ago, NewConvert said:

I think that I am in the minority here. I actually enjoyed the game.

So did I. We have conceded one goal in three matches, which ironically excites me more than high-risk/high-reward football. 

Mauk unlocked the defense a few times early on, Kamau created a few promising chances and Fitzgerald let himself down at a key moment when he back-heeled a through ball in the box. 

We do need to sharpen up in front of goal but the defensive set-up gives us every chance to win week in, week out. It is a welcome change. 

 

[playmaker]

5 hours ago, NewConvert said:

I think that I am in the minority here. I actually enjoyed the game. I felt that Wellington came out to play and took the game right up to City. This meant that a lot of the game was played in our back half but the defense stood solid. There were no stupid fouls or penalties given. It now seems obligatory for hacks to chop Malik. However, the game did see-saw and perhaps more should have been expected of some those finishes. I was a bit frustrated with some of the attacking because players did teh team thing rather than having a shot when they could. Kudos the Phoenix 17 year old keeper as well.

I agree. Good solid defensive game but lacked polish in the forward 3rd. A fair result would have been 3-1 but we just didn't execute those fast passes to open up their defence centrally and nor did we have that 2nd central option on goal which resulted in our attack becoming too predictable. 

In contrast to last season, our tactics and structure look solid and players know their role.

A few things to consider as a result of the game is to ask who could be brought in that could improve the quality of our chance creation and create other scoring targets.

I would  be looking at leaving Kamau, Fitzgerald Mauk or Malik on the pine and starting Budzinski, Carusca, Kilkenny or Timmy as it would change the dynamics of the build up and front third. It would also shift the game style from ball carrying with pace to moving the ball quickly with passing which results in a faster ball transition from the midfield from players with better vision and better passing accuracy. Also Budzinski needs to start because of his better scoring potential from outside the box.

In summary it was a good result as it definitely was a game we would have lost last season.

 

Edited October 22, 2017 by playmaker

[Imtellingyou]

We have a straight six wins against Nix. We don't lose no matter who is the coach. 

We don't concede as we have good goalie, 6 dedicated defenders and Fitzy who's keen to follow the orders. Results focused and the fruits are here. Quite opposite than previous risky thin defensive line. 

If Nix , unlikely, scored first than we would be talking about being outclassed as against Sydney in the Cup. 

[NewConvert]

1 hour ago, playmaker said:

I agree. Good solid defensive game but lacked polish in the forward 3rd. A fair result would have been 3-1 but we just didn't execute those fast passes to open up their defence centrally and nor did we have that 2nd central option on goal which resulted in our attack becoming too predictable. 

In contrast to last season, our tactics and structure look solid and players know their role.

A few things to consider as a result of the game is to ask who could be brought in that could improve the quality of our chance creation and create other scoring targets.

I would  be looking at leaving Kamau, Fitzgerald Mauk or Malik on the pine and starting Budzinski, Carusca, Kilkenny or Timmy as it would change the dynamics of the build up and front third. It would also shift the game style from ball carrying with pace to moving the ball quickly with passing which results in a faster ball transition from the midfield from players with better vision and better passing accuracy. Also Budzinski needs to start because of his better scoring potential from outside the box.

In summary it was a good result as it definitely was a game we would have lost last season.

 

The problem with dropping Kamau and Fitzy for the players you mentioned is speed. Those two are hard to beat for pace and on many occassions raced back to assist the defence and mid-field. I thought that when Brattan came on for Mauk that he would boss the midfield instead Brattan got bossed. So the most likely position available would be the attacking midfielder position where I would trail Carrusca, Budzinski or Kilkenny. I would play McCormack for teh first half and use Timmy as the sub in the second half or vice versa.

Have we ever being first after the completion of a round before?

[neio]

8 minutes ago, NewConvert said:

The problem with dropping Kamau and Fitzy for the players you mentioned is speed. Those two are hard to beat for pace and on many occassions raced back to assist the defence and mid-field. I thought that when Brattan came on for Mauk that he would boss the midfield instead Brattan got bossed. So the most likely position available would be the attacking midfielder position where I would trail Carrusca, Budzinski or Kilkenny. I would play McCormack for teh first half and use Timmy as the sub in the second half or vice versa.

Have we ever being first after the completion of a round before?

Yeah twice, last week and there was a game 2 seasons ago with about 2 games to go 

[playmaker]

1 hour ago, NewConvert said:

The problem with dropping Kamau and Fitzy for the players you mentioned is speed. 

Yeah I am not saying both or all of the players I mentioned, it has more to do with balance. I think we are missing that quality in the middle more than anything. Also foot speed doesn't necessarily lead to fast ball movement and a higher quality and faster ball movement often leads to a more dangerous attack with less players.

Believe me, I am quite happy with our start and our defensive play, couldn't be happier tbh, we just need better delivery and you look at our bench and we have very good passers of the ball sitting there.

Edited October 22, 2017 by playmaker

[belaguttman]

True, but if we are sacrificing foot speed then we have to position slower wingers further up the field, making us less compact and threatening defensive cohesiveness. The ball can certainly travel faster than any player running with the ball but if we leave Ross McCormack up front totally on his own then the ball will be back in our defensive half very quickly

[mattyh001]

Positives:

3 points

Super Ross finally scored

Clean sheet

We win the stats that matter; score board, shots on target (as opposed to shots in general)

 

Negatives:

Took the back seat approach at home to Wellington. 

Was boring as fuck.

Another night (certainly JVS / JA days) we could have easily lost. Admittedly we have better defensive structure, but still... 

Active Bay seemed divided, and at times driven by those mid way up the terrace as opposed to those nearer to the front

Still no fucking Cheezels chant 😠

[playmaker]

41 minutes ago, belaguttman said:

True, but if we are sacrificing foot speed then we have to position slower wingers further up the field, making us less compact and threatening defensive cohesiveness. The ball can certainly travel faster than any player running with the ball but if we leave Ross McCormack up front totally on his own then the ball will be back in our defensive half very quickly

Yeah, I just think we need better quality in the middle as our choices from midfield transitions were poor, lacked vision, and missing that quick final ball into the box. Many times Ross was well positioned but didn't get service. I would definitely like to see Budzinski or Carusca behind Ross for the next match.

[Hellenic Hero]

10 minutes ago, mattyh001 said:

Positives:

3 points

Super Ross finally scored

Clean sheet

We win the stats that matter; score board, shots on target (as opposed to shots in general)

 

Negatives:

Took the back seat approach at home to Wellington. 

Was boring as fuck.

Another night (certainly JVS / JA days) we could have easily lost. Admittedly we have better defensive structure, but still... 

Active Bay seemed divided, and at times driven by those mid way up the terrace as opposed to those nearer to the front

Still no fucking Cheezels chant 😠

Very true. I was in the middle, and it seemed like the majority of the chants were starting from where I was- all the capo was doing was picking up on the chants that were being generated and trying to get more people signing them, rather than starting the chants himself.

[Murfy1]

Really tough game to make an overall judgement about.

 

All up, I'd say our defence continues to be excellent, and it's the best in the league (we've only conceded the 1 goal over 3 games, and the next best defence has conceded 4). Pretty much all of our defenders--La Rocca, Schenkeveld, Muscat, and others were the best performers on the weekend, and have consistently been MOTM contenders all season.

 

Our attack is a different story. In short, our attack against Wellington was dour and disjointed. We only managed 8 shots all game, and 3 shots on target. 64.8% passing in the opposition half (Wellington were 10% better). 18 crosses, only 16.7% were successful (about half as successful as Wellington's). And only 40.3% possession...at home...against Wellington Phoenix...who had a shaken up defence and a new teenager goalkeeper. Yesterday's win can be entirely attributed to "individual brilliance", not effective attacking play.

 

I agree that the problem with our attack was largely our midfield. This shouldn't be surprising, given that our midfield is a defender (Jakobsen), a defensive midfielder (Malik) and an attacking midfielder but Not a playmaker (Mauk). Because Jakobsen is in the midfield, and Brattan or Carrusca or Budzinski aren't, the result is that Malik and Mauk need to produce much more creativity. And while this might sometimes work (like the first half in the derby), too often I believe this midfield won't work and won't produce many scoring opportunities (with the 90 minutes yesterday being the main proof).

The best solution I can see is to go back to our round 1 lineup. Bench Jamieson and play Jakobsen at LB (a position he has some familiarity with), and bring Brattan (or Budzinski or Carrusca) into the midfield alongside Malik and Mauk. IMO, Malik and Mauk can be top performers in "supporting roles" in midfield--where a player like Brattan produces most of the creativity or forward balls--but expecting Malik and Mauk to play "leading roles" with regards to producing the creativity is asking too much IMO.

 

So a great result yesterday, but a very mixed performance. And a team couldn't bank on getting a lot of good results over a season with performances like that. So the team will have to change, at least a little. This is when coaches earn their money. All eyes are on Joyce to see how he can lift the attack (without compromising the defence) to have Melbourne City produce strong performances for the remainder of the season where games don't need to be won by lucky free kicks.

Edited October 22, 2017 by Murfy1

[HEARTinator]

2 minutes ago, Murfy1 said:

Really tough game to make an overall judgement about.

 

All up, I'd say our defence continues to be excellent, and it's the best in the league (we've only conceded the 1 goal over 3 games, and the next best defence has conceded 4). Pretty much all of our defenders--La Rocca, Schenkeveld, Muscat, and others were the best performers on the weekend, and have consistently been MOTM contenders all season.

 

Our attack is a different story. In short, our attack against Wellington was dour and disjointed. We only managed 8 shots all game, and 3 shots on target. 64.8% passing in the opposition half (Wellington were 10% better). 18 crosses, only 16.7% were successful (about half as successful as Wellington's). And only 40.3% possession...at home...against Wellington Phoenix...who had a shaken up defence and a new teenager goalkeeper. Yesterday's win can be entirely attributed to "individual brilliance", not effective attacking play.

 

I agree that the problem with our attack was largely our midfield. This shouldn't be surprising, given that our midfield is a defender (Jakobsen), a defensive midfielder (Malik) and an attacking midfielder but Not a player (Mauk). Because Jakobsen is in the midfield, and Brattan or Carrusca or Budzinski aren't, the result is Malik and Mauk need to produce much more creativity. And while this might sometimes work (like the first half in the derby), too often I believe this midfield won't work and won't produce many scoring opportunities (with the 90 minutes yesterday being the main proof).

The best solution I can see is to go back to our round 1 lineup. Bench Jamieson and play Jakobsen at LB (a position he has some familiarity with), and bring Brattan (or Budzinski or Carrusca) into the midfield alongside Malik and Mauk. IMO, Malik and Mauk can be top performers in "supporting roles" in midfield--where a player like Brattan produces most of the creativity or forward balls--but expecting Malik and Mauk to play "leading roles" with regards to producing the creativity is too much IMO.

 

So a great result yesterday, but a very mixed performance. And a team couldn't bank on getting a lot of good results over a season with performances like that. So the team will have to change a little. This is when coaches earn their money. All eyes are on Joyce to see how he can lift the attack (without compromising the defence) to have Melbourne City produce strong performances for the remainder of the season where games don't need to be won by lucky free kicks.

Maybe Joyce sees it as laying the foundation for a successful tilt at silverware. Start the early part of the season by accumulating points with rock solid defending - this builds team confidence and positions the team in the upper half of the table. Then build on this as we welcome back Bruno (and Brandan) for added goal scoring capability. Would make a change from the JVS/JA days of conceding 40+ goals in a season. Joyce's team lineups/strategy are following a particular plan he has concocted for this season. It must be so because we have a pretty talented bench with good options for a different, proactive style of play. Maybe what we're seeing is a coach who has a Plan A and a different Plan B. Would make a change.

[Murfy1]

2 hours ago, HEARTinator said:

Maybe Joyce sees it as laying the foundation for a successful tilt at silverware. Start the early part of the season by accumulating points with rock solid defending - this builds team confidence and positions the team in the upper half of the table. Then build on this as we welcome back Bruno (and Brandan) for added goal scoring capability. Would make a change from the JVS/JA days of conceding 40+ goals in a season. Joyce's team lineups/strategy are following a particular plan he has concocted for this season. It must be so because we have a pretty talented bench with good options for a different, proactive style of play. Maybe what we're seeing is a coach who has a Plan A and a different Plan B. Would make a change.

 

Hopefully Joyce is laying the foundation, and the team and its style ATM aren't the finished product. I guess Graham Arnold and other coaches "build from the back" (sort out the team's defence first, then sort out the midfield and finally the attack/goals). It is a welcome change from the past, where I agree we conceded way too many goals and frankly the coach often disrespected that major part of football called "defending".

I agree the team will get some attacking players back. In short, I think we need some attackers back. For example, right now who could replace Fitzgerald or Kamau (I think Jamieson did once..)? Over the the first 3 games our wingers have got the job done, but if one or both's form drops then we don't have replacements ATM. We really need the likes of a Brandan in the mix.

But also I kinda disagree a little. With Cahill, Carrusca, Budzinski, Brattan now available most of our attackers are available. And the only "Plan B" I've seen is replacing McCormack with Cahill. If we saw something like a 4-4-2 (mid: Fitzgerald-Brattan-Malik-Kamau attack: Cahill-McCormack), then that would be a Plan B, that would really be a change of gears. That's definitely an attack at least worth trying out IMO, especially if we see more performances with our attack like yesterday's match.

 

Overall I'm actually pretty optimistic about Warren Joyce. However, 3 games in tactics and selection -wise he maybe looks a little conservative to me. Maybe I'm just a little overeager in wanting to see our overall performance and specifically the attack prove. But in my defence, seeing Melbourne City at home only manage 3 shots on goal against Wellington--a team that the club and even Melbourne Heart has traditionally thumped--was pretty hard going yesterday.

Edited October 22, 2017 by Murfy1