CCM vs Melbourne City in the totally "unloseable we're gunna win this game" Sunday 5th March 5pm

[Cloughie]

Just now, Hellenic Hero said:

At least Bruno's English has improved.

Makes for much less colourful speeches though!

[wombegongal]

7 minutes ago, playmaker said:

The JVS rot continues, we must clear out everyone.

Dressing room issues aren't always the coaches fault. I feel just dumping everything on JVS (despite his obvious shortcomings) won't actually help solve the problem/s. As far as I'm concerned mentioning him from here on, is actually totally pointless.

If you need a good reference for shit looker room behaviour just have a look at the NBA it is littered with toxic 'star' players and players with more attitude than talent. Take New York who have Phil '11 rings as a coach/ GM and 2 more as a player' Jackson as GM but still have Carmelo 'I'm a fuckwit team mate' Anthony causing trouble. Don't be surprised if we have a few guys in the sheds that think they are blameless or better than the rest of the team.

[Harrison]

What an awful match. Why is it that whenever we have the spare player we play worse? 

No structure in the second half, poor central defensive pairing, the midfield is a sieve and we have an inability to score from open play.

A win is a win but fuck me that was tough to watch.

 

[wombegongal]

1 minute ago, Harrison said:

What an awful match. Why is it that whenever we have the spare player we play worse? 

No structure in the second half, poor central defensive pairing, the midfield is a sieve and we have an inability to score from open play.

A win is a win but fuck me that was tough to watch.

 

I thought Tongyiks goal was well taken.

[japiedog]

3 points is  3 points, especially on the road

but gees that was shiteful

we should bury a 10 man CCM, but it looked like we were the team with 10 men

I just don't know how to express my latest emotions about this club

 

[Shahanga]

1 minute ago, wombegongal said:

I thought Tongyiks goal was well taken.

Don't forget his first one. Lovely touch

[jw1739]

6 minutes ago, wombegongal said:

Dressing room issues aren't always the coaches fault. I feel just dumping everything on JVS (despite his obvious shortcomings) won't actually help solve the problem/s. As far as I'm concerned mentioning him from here on, is actually totally pointless.

If you need a good reference for shit looker room behaviour just have a look at the NBA it is littered with toxic 'star' players and players with more attitude than talent. Take New York who have Phil '11 rings as a coach/ GM and 2 more as a player' Jackson as GM but still have Carmelo 'I'm a fuckwit team mate' Anthony causing trouble. Don't be surprised if we have a few guys in the sheds that think they are blameless or better than the rest of the team.

I agree. JvS actually resigned on 1st January 2017. Valkanis and Montemurro have had ample time to put their stamp on the club. That said it wouldn't surprise me to learn (except that we never will unless a player talks after he has left the club) that there are issues behind the scenes; the chemistry in the team seems to have changed since last season. 

[haz]

Tonyik has skills he's just very inexperienced. When he plays with Malik it's a recipe for disaster.

[NewConvert]

12 minutes ago, japiedog said:

3 points is  3 points, especially on the road

but gees that was shiteful

we should bury a 10 man CCM, but it looked like we were the team with 10 men

I just don't know how to express my latest emotions about this club

 

Mate, every week I find new emotions that I can't express - sadly none of them seem to be over all positive

[playmaker]

5 minutes ago, wombegongal said:

Dressing room issues aren't always the coaches fault. I feel just dumping everything on JVS (despite his obvious shortcomings) won't actually help solve the problem/s. As far as I'm concerned mentioning him from here on, is actually totally pointless.

If you need a good reference for shit looker room behaviour just have a look at the NBA it is littered with toxic 'star' players and players with more attitude than talent. Take New York who have Phil '11 rings as a coach/ GM and 2 more as a player' Jackson as GM but still have Carmelo 'I'm a fuckwit team mate' Anthony causing trouble. Don't be surprised if we have a few guys in the sheds that think they are blameless or better than the rest of the team.

JVS's influences are more than relevant because Valkanis is a caretaker and is seen to have no real influence other than carrying on with a group of support staff that have all been influenced by JVS for 6 years.

To change anything there needs to be respected leadership from the manager that instils 'my way or the highway' and sets clear cultural guidelines for everyone.

TBH, Kilkenny should have been dragged immediately for speaking to his captain like that, or any teammate for that matter. Bad bad culture.

[Kiro Kompiro]

Actually forgot this was on.  Sounds like I didn't miss much.

[belaguttman]

A lucky win against a better organised and more determined side. If we get a local coach I hope that it will be Okon - a classy player and a cluey coach.

We owe 3 points to the ref who missed an incredibly obvious penalty, no wonder Okon was apoplectic.

 

Positives:

A win when we played poorly.

We looked fluent and dangerous during the 2 or 3 10-15 second periods that we moved the ball forward quickly. The rest of the time we were shaded by CCM

Bruno

 

Negatives:

Sydney showed us how to play against 10 men, we are clueless - too many square balls invite interception and nullify any advantage from the extra player. After CCM went to 10 men it looked like we were the team that were down a player, struggled to find space, overloaded constantly in defence, unable to overload CCM when we went forward.

We can't defend, even against a bottom team with 10 players. Forget doing anything in the finals. Even if Jakobsen is back he'll have maybe 2 or 3 games with Tongyik before the finals start - not enough time to be consistent enough to win 3 finals games.

Josh Rose - too slow, offers little

Kilkenny is very frustrating, clearly talented and could be the best defensive mid in the League but needs 2 or 3 years of therapy.

Is there a single player in the team that looks happy to be there?

Edited March 5, 2017 by belaguttman

[KSK_47]

11 hours ago, Kiro Kompiro said:

Actually forgot this was on.  Sounds like I didn't miss much.

I remembered it was on but didn't break plans to watch and kind of glad. You know shits bad when you are relieved you missed a game we won

Edited March 5, 2017 by KSK_47

[Shahanga]

Meh on their non pen.

in the "seen them given category" that's all.

For mine old mate lent into Tongyik and then fell over because Tongyik wasn't there anymore.

We've had better shouts turned down.

Really we should have been 5 up by the time Bruno inexplicably played them in to start their counter & score. By then we'd missed 2 free headers and had 2 shots cleared off the line (or was it 3?, struggling to remember). Cahill probably would have been on 4 goals by then with Fitzy whipping crosses in and their defenders losing aerial challenges to the 4'8" Brandan.

After that though we went into what best might be called "NPL mode". Not worth saying anymore.

Valkanis seemingly forgot he had a bench and when he did remember inexplicably brought first Kamzu on and later  Colazo on to play in the middle, which was a near disaster (rather than the fail safe double change with him and Cahill on)

[mattyh001]

having seen us lose games when playing better than the shite dished up tonight, i think i'll take the three points and run.

watching Malik reminds me of watching Paddy Gerhardt; a bloke who should be playing as a centre / defensive mid but is "versitile" enough as a central defender to lure coaches into thinking he should be played there every week.

dont know how to feel for our travelling fans; at least they got to see an away win but FMD that was a long way to go to watch that shite.  massive appreciation for all that spent some hard earned cash on the trip.

the big thing for me coming out of tonight is that we still dont know how to put away the teams that the "lesser" teams ladder wise consistently.  how the duck we smash Wellington 5-1 and struggle against CCM tonight beats me.

[mattyh001]

26 minutes ago, Shahanga said:

Meh on their non pen.

in the "seen them given category" that's all.

For mine old mate lent into Tongyik and then fell over because Tongyik wasn't there anymore.

We've had better shouts turned down.

Really we should have been 5 up by the time Bruno inexplicably played them in to start their counter & score. By then we'd missed 2 free headers and had 2 shots cleared off the line (or was it 3?, struggling to remember). Cahill probably would have been on 4 goals by then with Fitzy whipping crosses in and their defenders losing aerial challenges to the 4'8" Brandan.

After that though we went into what best might be called "NPL mode". Not worth saying anymore.

Valkanis seemingly forgot he had a bench and when he did remember inexplicably brought first Kamzu on and later  Colazo on to play in the middle, which was a near disaster (rather than the fail safe double change with him and Cahill on)

thought that CCM had a few decent break aways during the first half that we weren't exactly a clear 3-5 goal better team.

that said i agree we should have scored more particularly since it shits me to tears that we didnt go for the kill after that first 45.  we lacked endeavour in the second half and that would have fucked us in the past.

[Jovan]

Main reason we won was due to their keeper. 2 horrendous decisions. Firstly for Bruno's free which was well struck secondly getting involved in a no win tangle red card pen.

He makes Muscat look like shrewd operator. 

[haz]

Even Aloisi can play against 10 men better then us.

[belaguttman]

9 minutes ago, haz said:

Even Aloisi can play against 10 men better then us.

We consistently struggle more against 10 men than we do against 11, it's a product of us playing with so little penetration and with such slow ball movement

[haz]

5 minutes ago, belaguttman said:

We consistently struggle more against 10 men than we do against 11, it's a product of us playing with so little penetration and with such slow ball movement

Sometimes I just close my eyes and think of the Holy Trinity counter attacking last season.

[SF33]

3 hours ago, japiedog said:

true, it doesn't look good, and I'm not saying Killer is entitled to behave like that

 

It's a fine line, I reckon. If you're a good team and you're winning, the pundits will say it's a example of why the team is so good. If you're a terrible team, it's a sign of mutiny. We're somewhere in the middle, I suppose.

Sorensen made some good saves, but I think those in the Bouzanis camp would say that his incessant rolling the ball out after a save put us under way more pressure than we should have been.

Perhaps I'm missing something, but can someone explain to me why Izzo's red card was such a boneheaded play, or why Fornaroli was so clever to draw it? It's the option of walking the ball in, against - what- an 80% chance of converting from the spot (assuming the referee actually calls the penalty and red card - not exactly a guarantee with A-League refs)? And I don't think Izzo had a choice but to do what he did. Sacrificed himself to keep his team in the game, like Sorensen did for us in week 1.

Finally, if there is a hell and if they play football down there, I reckon the game that you'd have to watch would be an 11 v 10 Melbourne City training drill. We're utterly hopeless every time there is a red card in a game, whether we're playing with 11 v 10, or with 10 v 11.

[Shahanga]

1 hour ago, mattyh001 said:

thought that CCM had a few decent break aways during the first half that we weren't exactly a clear 3-5 goal better team.

that said i agree we should have scored more particularly since it shits me to tears that we didnt go for the kill after that first 45.  we lacked endeavour in the second half and that would have fucked us in the past.

I failed to mention in the first half that with the deadly duo of Malik & Tongyik holding the fort we looked like conceding every time they came forward 

[mattyh001]

27 minutes ago, SF33 said:

It's a fine line, I reckon. If you're a good team and you're winning, the pundits will say it's a example of why the team is so good. If you're a terrible team, it's a sign of mutiny. We're somewhere in the middle, I suppose.

Sorensen made some good saves, but I think those in the Bouzanis camp would say that his incessant rolling the ball out after a save put us under way more pressure than we should have been.

Perhaps I'm missing something, but can someone explain to me why Izzo's red card was such a boneheaded play, or why Fornaroli was so clever to draw it? It's the option of walking the ball in, against - what- an 80% chance of converting from the spot (assuming the referee actually calls the penalty and red card - not exactly a guarantee with A-League refs)? And I don't think Izzo had a choice but to do what he did. Sacrificed himself to keep his team in the game, like Sorensen did for us in week 1.

Finally, if there is a hell and if they play football down there, I reckon the game that you'd have to watch would be an 11 v 10 Melbourne City training drill. We're utterly hopeless every time there is a red card in a game, whether we're playing with 11 v 10, or with 10 v 11.

that in itself is the driving factor as Fornaroli knows that Izzo is in a catch 22; go down a player / force your team to sub on the back up keeper or trail 3-2. lose lose CCM - so Izzo selflessly scarfices himself for his team.  of which, whats Fornaroli doing out there if he thinks that he would miss the penalty, or that we wouldnt have the ability / opportunity to make up for it if he missed?  surely the guy needs to have significant faith in the team - particularly as captain

from a City perspective, we have to consider what's better?

(a.) 3-2 up playing 11 v 11, or

(b.) 2-2 against 10 with around 30 min to play (assuming we miss).

and given how inept we were against 10, sometimes you have to go with which is the lesser of two evils

 

Edited March 5, 2017 by mattyh001

[strider]

good on Kilkerz to yell at that Shitaroli flog for that amatuer metro-league pass. if you get paid any more than 20 cents to play you should be lynched or burned at the steak for that

[belaguttman]

Just now, strider said:

good on Kilkerz to yell at that Shitaroli flog for that amatuer metro-league pass. if you get paid any more than 20 cents to play you should be lynched or burned at the steak for that

You're thinking too much about the meat @strider. Stake not steak

[Mr MO]

1 hour ago, mattyh001 said:

how the duck we smash Wellington 5-1 and struggle against CCM tonight beats me.

I was at the Wellington game and to be honest, we played very similar meaning really really average. The stories was indentical Kilkenny & Brattan struggle to hold midfield and Malik and Ruon making a mess at the back with slow, bad passing, not reading play. Most of goals that night were a little lucky, own goals, ricochet's and deflected cut backs (except Colazo's). A good win but very flattered, just like tonight.

[n i k o]

After reading everyone's reviews I had a great night. I watched us go 2-0 up and then headed out. Perfect timing. 

[GreenSeater]

At the end of the day I'm just happy we got the three points. Plenty of times I've seen us cough up a 2-0 lead and lose, it was nice to hang on for a change.

[rass]

50 minutes ago, SF33 said:

Perhaps I'm missing something, but can someone explain to me why Izzo's red card was such a boneheaded play, or why Fornaroli was so clever to draw it? It's the option of walking the ball in, against - what- an 80% chance of converting from the spot (assuming the referee actually calls the penalty and red card - not exactly a guarantee with A-League refs)? And I don't think Izzo had a choice but to do what he did. 

I actually think Tuna got lucky there. He was in and a simple tap-in would have made it 3-2. But he fukd his touch as he got in the box, panicked slightly, looked around to see where the keeper was thinking he was going to lose it and then had the smarts to put his body in a position to draw the foul and hence red card.

He looks very slow at times this season and his touch isn't quite what it was last season. Agree with the others, he has to play solely as the 9 and not go chasing too deep as he just doesn't have the motor to get back when those counters occur.

[kingofhearts]

Not really a lot to say about today that hasn't already been said.

Our defence is just fucked, you can't really blame Tonyik or Malik directly for it too. One of the two is only a rookie and the other one is a DM being played out of position again, this comes down to poor list management. Letting a more experienced CB go in Chapman, and then signing an injury prone CB in Jakobsen has just lead us to have to constantly put onto the park a make shift centre back pairing, and it fucks us every game. The past two seasons we've had an embarrassment of riches down the other end when it comes to scoring the goals, but for some reason we never seem to look after the other end of the park. Our defence will decide how much damage we do this season, and at this rate, we'd be lucky to make it to the 2nd week of finals.

Onto the game though, we did what we had to do. Not pretty at all and made it a lot harder then it needed to be, but it was good however to not see both Cahill and Bruno shoved in the starting line-up again just because they have to play together (even though they clearly don't work with each other). We did start off in the game quite well, however, it feels like a long, long time ago when we put in a decent 90 minute performance. It just constantly feels that we have to keep scraping wins against teams we are much better then. It's just disappointing to see that with the quality we have on the pitch, we can't put on a much better spectacle then what we are delivering at the moment.

[rass]

There's a bit of talk here about issues in the dressing rooms, but i just think we are bunch of spoilt sulks.

Really, watch when we score first and the team look all happy with each other. Then as soon as we concede or start getting in trouble, the cat fighting starts.

Just out your head down and play to the end. 

[jw1739]

8 minutes ago, rass said:

There's a bit of talk here about issues in the dressing rooms, but i just think we are bunch of spoilt sulks.

Really, watch when we score first and the team look all happy with each other. Then as soon as we concede or start getting in trouble, the cat fighting starts.

Just out your head down and play to the end. 

Winning papers over a lot of cracks, both within the playing squad and the management thereof. Of more concern to me is our complete inability to put a match away against 10 men. That's the third match in which we have failed to do it, and in each case it's been us who has looked under increasing pressure as the game has worn on, when of course it should be the other way around. Clear evidence to me that the club simply does not pay enough attention and spend enough time on strategy and tactics.

[playmaker]

The reason why we struggle against 10 men is because  we struggle against a counter-attack. Our defensive line is high and our defensive prowess is rubbish.

[silva10]

3 hours ago, playmaker said:

JVS's influences are more than relevant because Valkanis is a caretaker and is seen to have no real influence other than carrying on with a group of support staff that have all been influenced by JVS for 6 years.

To change anything there needs to be respected leadership from the manager that instils 'my way or the highway' and sets clear cultural guidelines for everyone.

TBH, Kilkenny should have been dragged immediately for speaking to his captain like that, or any teammate for that matter. Bad bad culture.

I have to completely disagree with that. When people make errors you need team mates to tell them whoever they are. This team has just gone through the motions since winning the FFA Cup. Bruno did score twice but three times should have put players in. He or any other player shouldn't be above criticism.

 

 

[n i k o]

Might have a short holiday away from the forum. You cunts are depressing as fuck (for good reason mind you) 

Edited March 5, 2017 by n i k o

[playmaker]

3 minutes ago, silva10 said:

I have to completely disagree with that. When people make errors you need team mates to tell them whoever they are. This team has just gone through the motions since winning the FFA Cup. Bruno did score twice but three times should have put players in. He or any other player shouldn't be above criticism.

 

 

You are kidding right! There is a time and a place for that and you don't have to be a foul mouthed moron openly on the pitch to any of your team mates. I am sure Bruno realised his mistake as he is a professional, and it's much more constructive for his teammate to have a quite word instead of being a dick. 

That's an ego and cultural issue that goes deep into the group and any decent manager with control of his list would have dragged Kilkenny immediately.

Kilkenny needs to pull his head in and shut his mouth because he made some crucial errors and one which indirectly caused a goal and none of our players were mouthing off, because they know it is unacceptable to do so.

If Kilkenny wants to do that crap then he can go and play in 3rd division state league where there a many loud mouth wannabe Ronaldos telling their teammates off.

[playmaker]

14 minutes ago, n i k o said:

Might have a short holiday away from the forum. You cunts are depressing as fuck (for good reason mind you) 

You have given up and the white flag is up. You are very wise.

My flag is halfway up, and I am looking for reasons not to give up. I can't find many though.

Edited March 5, 2017 by playmaker

[silva10]

1 minute ago, playmaker said:

You are kidding right! There is a time and a place for that and you don't have to be a foul mouthed moron openly on the pitch to any of your team mates. I am sure Bruno realised his mistake as he is a professional, and it's much more constructive for his teammate to have a quite word instead of being a dick. 

That's an ego and cultural issue that goes deep into the group and any decent manager with control of his list would have dragged Kilkenny immediately.

Kilkenny needs to pull his head in and shut his mouth because he made some crucial errors and one which indirectly caused a goal and none of our players were mouthing off, because they know it is unacceptable to do so.

If Kilkenny wants to do that crap then he can go and play in 3rd division state league where there a many loud mouth wannabe Ronaldos telling their teammates off.

I am absolutely not kidding and if you think players are too good to be told off if they mess up then you are wrong! I have seen it happen with better players than Bruno in a far higher calibre. For me this team needs a proper leader on the pitch who can communicate to the rest of the group and give them a bollocking when needed. Kilkenny did make a mistake afterwards and equally should have been told by someone else. Unfortunately the only other player who might have said something was sitting on the bench (Cahill). It is integral to any team that you have players driving their team mates on when they are up against it. If that means a bollocking is given out at times then that is fine by me.

[playmaker]

Let's agree to disagree, I don't think there is anything constructive to come out of openly screaming obscenities at another player. He could have easily pulled him up at the next stoppage and had a word to him respectfully. Just reflect back to last season and the way Kisnorbo handled things.

Anyway we need an new coach, that's the real issue.

[Defibrillator]

1 hour ago, playmaker said:

You have given up and the white flag is up. You are very wise.

My flag is halfway up, and I am looking for reasons not to give up. I can't find many though.

I'm trying to figure out what a white flag at half mast symbolises?  It's probably a more ominous sign than the white flag at full mast.