Jump to content
Melbourne Football

International Politics


Deeming
 Share

Recommended Posts

On 7/2/2017 at 11:40 AM, NewConvert said:

I've worked with Saudis at an international level and last year I decided to be host to a Saudi student. I have also worked with people from various countries and backgrounds, and there is always a thread that I can connect to: alcohol, food, sport, women, music. Except the Saudis. These blokes were alien. Hence I thought if I hosted a student things may be different. Nah. The Saudi's would never have started civilization. They are infantile because an imam tells them how to wash their dick they just never grow up.

As for North Koreans - well I expect that the people (rather than their psycho government/bureaucracy) would be no different to the South Koreans. The Pakistanis have internal domestic problems but at least they know sports and quite a few drink. And the DR Congo is a civil war but at least they drink.

I've been meaning to ask for a while what you do for a living. Because your life sounds way more interesting than mine.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

6 hours ago, Blackout said:

I've been meaning to ask for a while what you do for a living. Because your life sounds way more interesting than mine.

Nah, my life is pretty mundane specially at my age. Engineer working in IT and telecommunications. Spent most of my life in R&D then switched over to a senior pre-sales role which is how I managed to visit so many places andwork in so many countries (about 12). These days I am in projects and mentoring.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 3 weeks later...
4 hours ago, Deeming said:

One year since the Trump victory.

I was not a Trump fan (Carson, then Rubio for me) but I have to admit he has done a much better job than I expected.

What's he done?

I don't follow US politics and it's hard to figure out from afar what the situation actually is with the "but he isn't Hilary Clinton" hysteria.

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

3 hours ago, Shahanga said:

What's he done?

I don't follow US politics and it's hard to figure out from afar what the situation actually is with the "but he isn't Hilary Clinton" hysteria.

He's been pretty true to his word on what he planned on.

He's stood up to North Korea.

And as @thisphantomfortress said he's been fairly small government 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

6 hours ago, Tesla said:

He has actually achieved more than anyone before him regarding North Korea,

What's he achieved?

i get he's had a different approach but they seem the same threat they've always been (whilst trying to get worse) and it's still the most fucked place in the world for a normal person to live.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, Shahanga said:

What's he achieved?

i get he's had a different approach but they seem the same threat they've always been (whilst trying to get worse) and it's still the most fucked place in the world for a normal person to live.

TBH the tensions only really started in the 90s after the famines before that they were a back water with occasional run ins at the DMZ. It escalated after Kim Jung Il decided to a. Systematically starve areas of "dissidents" and send food aid where he wanted not where it was needed b. Develop nuclear weapons to strong arm people into aid.

Clinton was pretty agreeable for lack of a better term. G. W. Bush named them in his "axis of evil" but fuck all else of substance. Barack seemed to soften his stance (rhetoric at least). All of this while the Chinese are propping them up because they (rightly) don't want to deal with the refugees should they collapse. 

Donald has basically ramped up the rhetoric and pressure on China to cut them off. More sanctions etc for misbehaving. He's basically acting like he's taking on the mob in NY in the 80s. The biggest issue is that Seoul is too close to the border which means invasion isn't possible without astronomical loss of civilian life. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Kim Jong Un and Donald Trump are almost the same person. They are both unconventional and unpredictable in their approach to international politics (that is their power), use brinkmanship, put their country first and tell everyone else that their country is the greatest. They also both try to manipulate any media and dismiss dissenting views as 'fake' or in NK's case just kill the dissenters. 

Trump is playing a high stakes game in East Asia. He has escalated where previous presidents tried to defuse. It might work. It may not. I'm still reserving judgement. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 hours ago, Tangerine said:

Kim Jong Un and Donald Trump are almost the same person. They are both unconventional and unpredictable in their approach to international politics (that is their power), use brinkmanship, put their country first and tell everyone else that their country is the greatest. They also both try to manipulate any media and dismiss dissenting views as 'fake' or in NK's case just kill the dissenters. 

Trump is playing a high stakes game in East Asia. He has escalated where previous presidents tried to defuse. It might work. It may not. I'm still reserving judgement. 

I'm no fan of Trump, but it's a real stretch to compare him to a mass-murdering totalitarian dictator

  • Like 3
Link to comment
Share on other sites

3 hours ago, Tangerine said:

Kim Jong Un and Donald Trump are almost the same person. They are both unconventional and unpredictable in their approach to international politics (that is their power), use brinkmanship, put their country first and tell everyone else that their country is the greatest. They also both try to manipulate any media and dismiss dissenting views as 'fake' or in NK's case just kill the dissenters. 

Trump is playing a high stakes game in East Asia. He has escalated where previous presidents tried to defuse. It might work. It may not. I'm still reserving judgement. 

I don't think anyone could say Kim Jong puts his country first.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, GreenSeater said:

I'm no fan of Trump, but it's a real stretch to compare him to a mass-murdering totalitarian dictator

You raise indirectly an interesting question, so i googled it:

- According to news.com Kim Jong-un has executed 340 people in five years for ‘crimes’ including drinking and slouching (http://www.news.com.au/finance/work/leaders/kim-jongun-has-executed-340-people-in-five-years-for-crimes-including-drinking-and-slouching/news-story/32d90b4a691b85b0ac66c802ee263c38)

- The US had killed around 2,200 civilians in the fight against ISIS under Donald Trump to July 2017 (http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/middle-east/donald-trump-syria-death-toll-campaign-military-operations-barack-obama-administration-a7844526.html).

Of course I don't think these two things are the same. My point in comparing the two leaders is that each will do what they think needs to be done whether it is conventional or not (or arguably right). If Donald Trump was leader of North Korea i have not doubt he would have pursued a nuclear weapons program and used brinkmanship rather than simply roll-over to the international community.

 

@Deeming I completely agree that Kim Jong Un doesn't put his 'people' first. In contrast they starve, die and are oppressed in many ways. However, i do think he believes he is putting his country first.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

8 hours ago, Shahanga said:

What's he achieved?

i get he's had a different approach but they seem the same threat they've always been (whilst trying to get worse) and it's still the most fucked place in the world for a normal person to live.

Gotten China to agree with extremely tough sanctions which will basically cripple North Korea. 

Edited by Tesla
  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

5 hours ago, Tesla said:

Gotten China to agree with extremely tough sanctions which will basically cripple North Korea. 

Not sure on this. China went to bat and gave some kind of guarantees on North Korea's behalf at the UN. Then North Korea went ahead and sent some more ballistic missiles embarrasing the Chinese government, that is when they applied the sanctions and since then they have reduced their rate of missile testing. There is no guarantee that the Chinese will keep the sanctions on a long term basis - could be just long enough for the tool to realise that he does not have that much power after all. I also recall reading (I think that it was in Foreign Affairs magazine) that back in the 50s when the war was on, Mao created the defensive lines for NK facing south. What that meant was that if ever the NK pissed Mao off the PLA would have an open highway all the way down to the DMZ. No one believes that has changed.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 2 months later...
6 hours ago, thisphantomfortress said:

Honestly the whole world knows this is the most retarded issue going around, and its somehow been going on for 25 years, with the rest of the world laughing at the massive :droy:.

How one country thinks they can have any say in what another calls itself is beyond me. There is a geographical region called Macedonia, and in it lies a country called Macedonia and three regions in another country with the term Macedonia in their name, where is the problem? None of them even have the same name, and even then unless you had two nations with the same name, I dont see an issue.

The Greek argument is that it implies some sort of territorial claim, like a NATO member has anything to worry about from a small country? It's ridiculous. 

These protests highlight probably the strangest part of it, the protesters don't even want a composite name with the term Macedonia, a solution that would be an outrageously great win for Greece, but they're not having it. 

Hence why it's been going on for so long even though it's in everyone's interests for it to be resolved, I doubt a composite name would even pass a referendum in Macedonia, while even that isn't acceptable to a lot of people in Greece.

This is actually the closest it's ever come to being resolved, because you have both government willing to accept a composite name, but it doesn't seem either population is keen on it, and in Macedonia it will have to be a referendum, so we'll see what happens. I think it either gets resolved with a referendum passing, or if the referendum fails at some point the EU & co will put pressure on for Greece accept Macedonia joining EU & NATO under a provisional name in which case Greece loses all leverage anyway and the issue will probably never be resolved but it will be of little consequence.

So, to answer your original question, my thoughts are the protesters are pretty misguided, this is Greece's best chance at a resolution in their favour, and I'm not sure if the chance will come again. Personally I'd like to see any referendum rejected just because the whole thing is a joke as I've outlined above and I think eventually EU/NATO will get a bit desperate to get Macedonia in and will tell Greece to basically fuck off. They've already invested too much to make it happen, and will probably try to rig any referendum, but if they cant, dont see what other play is left for the EU/NATO to get this all finalised then to pressure Greece into becoming more realistic with their demands.

Edited by Tesla
Link to comment
Share on other sites

8 hours ago, Tesla said:

Honestly the whole world knows this is the most retarded issue going around, and its somehow been going on for 25 years, with the rest of the world laughing at the massive :droy:.

How one country thinks they can have any say in what another calls itself is beyond me. There is a geographical region called Macedonia, and in it lies a country called Macedonia and three regions in another country with the term Macedonia in their name, where is the problem? None of them even have the same name, and even then unless you had two nations with the same name, I dont see an issue.

The Greek argument is that it implies some sort of territorial claim, like a NATO member has anything to worry about from a small country? It's ridiculous. 

These protests highlight probably the strangest part of it, the protesters don't even want a composite name with the term Macedonia, a solution that would be an outrageously great win for Greece, but they're not having it. 

Hence why it's been going on for so long even though it's in everyone's interests for it to be resolved, I doubt a composite name would even pass a referendum in Macedonia, while even that isn't acceptable to a lot of people in Greece.

This is actually the closest it's ever come to being resolved, because you have both government willing to accept a composite name, but it doesn't seem either population is keen on it, and in Macedonia it will have to be a referendum, so we'll see what happens. I think it either gets resolved with a referendum passing, or if the referendum fails at some point the EU & co will put pressure on for Greece accept Macedonia joining EU & NATO under a provisional name in which case Greece loses all leverage anyway and the issue will probably never be resolved but it will be of little consequence.

So, to answer your original question, my thoughts are the protesters are pretty misguided, this is Greece's best chance at a resolution in their favour, and I'm not sure if the chance will come again. Personally I'd like to see any referendum rejected just because the whole thing is a joke as I've outlined above and I think eventually EU/NATO will get a bit desperate to get Macedonia in and will tell Greece to basically fuck off. They've already invested too much to make it happen, and will probably try to rig any referendum, but if they cant, dont see what other play is left for the EU/NATO to get this all finalised then to pressure Greece into becoming more realistic with their demands.

Maybe change their name, their crest and the colours of their sporting teams but as a compromise let them play in their original colours when they are playing away from home. 

  • Like 3
  • Haha 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

We know what you meant, but we read what you wrote...

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2018-02-08/north-korea-cheering-squad-arrives-in-south/9410192

North Korea's 229-woman cheer squad has crossed the border into South Korea one day before the start of the Pyeongchang Winter Olympics.

The squad, which reportedly features women chosen for their youth, good looks and enthusiasm, has been allowed to root for the North's much smaller contingent of athletes — only about 22 are competing — as part of a last-minute arrangement between Pyongyang and Seoul.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, jw1739 said:

We know what you meant, but we read what you wrote...

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2018-02-08/north-korea-cheering-squad-arrives-in-south/9410192

North Korea's 229-woman cheer squad has crossed the border into South Korea one day before the start of the Pyeongchang Winter Olympics.

The squad, which reportedly features women chosen for their youth, good looks and enthusiasm, has been allowed to root for the North's much smaller contingent of athletes — only about 22 are competing — as part of a last-minute arrangement between Pyongyang and Seoul.

Would bang North Korean cheer leaders  as long as Kim Jong allows them to shave 

Edited by n i k o
Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 4 weeks later...
11 hours ago, haz said:

Old mate Xi Jinping looks set to get rid of presidential terms in China so he can rule for life, hmmm.....

http://mobile.abc.net.au/news/2018-02-26/china-communist-party-proposes-removing-presidential-term-limits/9483266

What a shocking and unexpected development from the paragon of democracy that is China.

  • Like 1
  • Thanks 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 3 weeks later...

I think the whole Trump vs North Korea is turning out to have had the opposite effect that the Trump camp thought it would, he has not made America looks Great and Powerful again as some sort World Sheriff.

Instead as the insults have gone back and forward (each side as nasty as the other) if anything it’s made America look like comically like a drunk Full Grown Adult getting into a intense argument with a fifteen year old at the footy – Which of course which never goes anywhere more serious when the drunk’s mates point out the kid is fifteen.

And it looks like China and Russia have been watching, as both countries have increasingly decided that the don’t have to look as democratic or as peaceful as they once did in the Post-Cold War World. China now has a life time President and complete Gov control of all media whilst Putin is doing whatever he wants now and in both cases it would appear that most of these nation’s populations are behind such moves of aggression.

Thrown in the fact that North Korea (Of which China are there only Ally) is believed by many experts to be close to collapsing in a day… it appears we are entering a period of some real hostility in International Politics and not a Cold War where two sides (With predictable Ideologies) balance each other out. Personally it’s starting to look a bit scary.

There is apparently a ton of Wealth ready to be mined or pumped out of North Korea – if its falls, god knows what will happen because all of the Big Three will want a say.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

5 hours ago, cadete said:

I think the whole Trump vs North Korea is turning out to have had the opposite effect that the Trump camp thought it would, he has not made America looks Great and Powerful again as some sort World Sheriff.

Instead as the insults have gone back and forward (each side as nasty as the other) if anything it’s made America look like comically like a drunk Full Grown Adult getting into a intense argument with a fifteen year old at the footy – Which of course which never goes anywhere more serious when the drunk’s mates point out the kid is fifteen.

And it looks like China and Russia have been watching, as both countries have increasingly decided that the don’t have to look as democratic or as peaceful as they once did in the Post-Cold War World. China now has a life time President and complete Gov control of all media whilst Putin is doing whatever he wants now and in both cases it would appear that most of these nation’s populations are behind such moves of aggression.

Thrown in the fact that North Korea (Of which China are there only Ally) is believed by many experts to be close to collapsing in a day… it appears we are entering a period of some real hostility in International Politics and not a Cold War where two sides (With predictable Ideologies) balance each other out. Personally it’s starting to look a bit scary.

There is apparently a ton of Wealth ready to be mined or pumped out of North Korea – if its falls, god knows what will happen because all of the Big Three will want a say.

Good thoughts although I don't agree that Trump has made the USA look like a world sheriff. I think that it has made them unpredictable and for the same reasons that you state this has meant that all other nations are now re-adjusting their foreign affairs in a way that the USA was not expecting. Under previous presidents (didn't matter which party) the Philippines, Vietnam, Japan, etc would have not had the repproachment that they now have with China. Would South Korea be keen to normalise relations with North Korea? Unlikely but now that the  likelyhood of hot conflict has become a reality they certainly have. Certainly Russia and China are moving decidedly into a standard totalitarian mold. But as far as NK and a wealth of mining is concerned, I suspect that China will have that locked in and certainly China would not look kindly upon having a vassal state being shared by two other powers.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

12 hours ago, NewConvert said:

Good thoughts although I don't agree that Trump has made the USA look like a world sheriff. I think that it has made them unpredictable and for the same reasons that you state this has meant that all other nations are now re-adjusting their foreign affairs in a way that the USA was not expecting. Under previous presidents (didn't matter which party) the Philippines, Vietnam, Japan, etc would have not had the repproachment that they now have with China. Would South Korea be keen to normalise relations with North Korea? Unlikely but now that the  likelyhood of hot conflict has become a reality they certainly have. Certainly Russia and China are moving decidedly into a standard totalitarian mold. But as far as NK and a wealth of mining is concerned, I suspect that China will have that locked in and certainly China would not look kindly upon having a vassal state being shared by two other powers.

I think u will see he has not achieved his World Sheriff aim at all - like you said its done the opposite... the last time the world powers were this unpredictable and hostility was so open was prior to WW2 as the Cold War period IMO was a different type of atmosphere as it was so balanced between two powers.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 5 months later...
  • 2 months later...

Seriously the Democrats need to reassess what the fuck they are doing, in a two party system to actually win power you need to target the middle... not just your own increasingly out of touch rusted on spiteful voters.

At this point I cannot see how Trump wont be re-elected in two years time.

Edited by cadete
  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

 Share

×
×
  • Create New...