City tactics 2016-17

[haz]

What is wrong with Melbourne City?
By Greg Prichard 3 Feb 2017 - 3:50 PM  UPDATED 1 HOUR AGO

http://theworldgame.sbs.com.au/article/2017/02/03/what-wrong-melbourne-city

Recent poor results did not come about because City were unlucky not to score after doing most of the attacking, or because the opposition got lucky on the counter-attack. It is being too kind to City to say that.

The results have come because the opposition have worked City out.

They know that if they defend resolutely and don't lose their shape they are a reasonable chance of stopping them - no matter how much of the ball City may have.

City's attack is too slow and it lacks penetration.

They don't pull the defence out of shape often enough because their build-up takes too much time.

City like to keep possession, but too often someone will get the ball, look up, and if there is nothing obvious on offer they will take it backwards to someone else and start again, perhaps shifting to the other side of the field.

There aren't enough piercing balls from playmakers in the centre of the field to advancing fullbacks or wingers, putting them in behind the defence.  

Closer in to the centre of the field, the balls to the front men don't put them in a dangerous position often enough.

So the opposition defence is almost always set and when City do get balls into the box they are able to deal with it a lot of the time.

City look great when someone comes up with a tremendous finish like Tim Cahill did twice in their 2-1 win against Central Coast Mariners two rounds back, but it's not happening often enough.

Last week, Newcastle Jets came up with a plan where they were determined to hold their defensive shape, stick to City forward Bruno Fornaroli in the centre and back themselves to deal with City's attempts to attack from the outside in.

When the Jets got the ball, they moved it swiftly in transition and came up with a 2-1 win. They thoroughly deserved it.

Here is an important fact: City haven't beaten a team that is currently in the top six since their 2-1 win over Newcastle in round six.

Only two of their seven wins have been against teams currently in the top six. Their 4-1 flogging of Melbourne Victory in round two was the other.

But that win over Victory seems like a distant memory at the moment.

City need to speed things up in attack. They need to be more decisive, more penetrative and start putting the defence under increased pressure by pulling them out of shape more.

That way, even if one avenue suddenly closes there might be an avenue nearby that they can quickly exploit.

They badly miss Aaron Mooy, who could put an outside man in behind the defence with a perfectly-accurate pass, or slice it open down the middle with a killer through ball, but he is gone for good so they have to find a way of doing it with the players they have.

Surely Fernando Brandan will be back in the starting side for the Melbourne derby at Etihad Stadium on Saturday. He's one player who can put defences under pressure by running the ball into the box from out wide and daring them to stop him.

Anthony Caceres is another who could at least be considered for elevation to the starting side.

But, whatever City do, they have to put Victory under the gun with a more dynamic approach.

We're going to learn a lot from this match about where City's season will go from here.

[playmaker]

A good summary of everything posted on this forum about our current game plan. Greg should have at least credited us..... the rude bastard.

[haz]

3 minutes ago, playmaker said:

A good summary of everything posted on this forum about our current game plan. Greg should have at least credited us..... the rude bastard.

He wrote a decent article a while ago about why Bouzanis is playing ahead of Sorenson.

[n i k o]

Look like interesting articles. But it's Friday night so fuck reading that shit right now it's time to hit the rakija hard. 

[Jovan]

25 minutes ago, n i k o said:

Look like interesting articles. But it's Friday night so fuck reading that shit right now it's time to hit the rakija hard. 

👏👏👏👏👏👏

[carlings]

Now SBS World Game has even worked us out, yet we still won't change a thing 

[haz]

@2:50

 

[Torn Asunder]

The tactics employed against Brisbane last night must become our default starting point for the rest of the season.

I honestly think that if the Great Dane had been in goals all season (other than just his suspension) we'd have another 10 points.

[HeartOfCity]

Excellent last night!! Letting the ball come to them instead of chasing it down. Reckon that would work well against Sydney and Victree aswell.

[haz]

NYCFC Tactics Explained

 

[belaguttman]

That sounds just like us except we have to manage without Pirlo

[moops]

Napoli's tactics would suite us and they play nice football, but instead of concentrating down the left, we should flip it on it's head and go down the right, it's a formation made for Franjic.

https://tacticalcalcio.com/2016/04/18/an-analysis-of-maurizio-sarris-napoli/

[Jovan]

23 minutes ago, moops said:

Napoli's tactics would suite us and they play nice football, but instead of concentrating down the left, we should flip it on it's head and go down the right, it's a formation made for Franjic.

https://tacticalcalcio.com/2016/04/18/an-analysis-of-maurizio-sarris-napoli/

If only.

Obviously having Higuian scoring 30 something goals helped. But that Napoli team moved the ball super fast but patiently at the same time which is a fundamental difference to us.

Possession based play can work and be effective but possession is but one part of the system which gets lost in many discussions. 

[moops]

1 minute ago, Jovan said:

If only.

Obviously having Higuian scoring 30 something goals helped. But that Napoli team moved the ball super fast but patiently at the same time which is a fundamental difference to us.

Possession based play can work and be effective but possession is but one part of the system which gets lost in many discussions. 

I hear you mate.

Fornaroli would be capable of playing the Higuain role, he likes to roam and we know he can score.

The fast ball movement is what we need, it's my biggest bugbear with this team, we move the ball so slow at times, it's just a matter of coaching it.

There is a difference with possession for possession sake and meaningful possession. Possession football is different to say tiki taka introduced by Cruyff, Napoli play with purpose, not to retain the ball.

true I have recently come across this wonderful link about pressing.

http://www.martiperarnau.com/pressing-counterpressing-and-counterattacking/

[belaguttman]

Napoli vary the tempo, the defensive triangle can circulate the ball slowly but the forward moves are well timed, decisive and quick. They're designed to pull teams out of shape and exploit space and create overloads, not designed to allow the opponents to organise 10 men behind the ball

[moops]

22 minutes ago, belaguttman said:

Napoli vary the tempo, the defensive triangle can circulate the ball slowly but the forward moves are well timed, decisive and quick. They're designed to pull teams out of shape and exploit space and create overloads, not designed to allow the opponents to organise 10 men behind the ball

Yep, I like it.

On second thought though, we are probably missing the essential CB's lol, who as you say are an important part of the build up.

[belaguttman]

Just now, moops said:

Yep, I like it.

On second thought though, we are probably missing the essential CB's lol, who as you say are an important part of the build up.

The change of pace is triggered by the player of the 3 that has the ball when the moment to attack is recognised. All 3 need to be trained to recognise that moment and the other 10 outfield players need to be trained how to create that moment through movement off the ball and then how to exploit it when the forward pass occurs. At the moment the ball moves forward so slowly that either:

no opportunity is created and the ball is recirculated back to the keeper to reset the attack

more often the player that receives the first pass takes so long to complete his pass (as he is poorly positioned or the player closer to the goal is poorly positioned) that he dispossessed

[Jovan]

6 minutes ago, moops said:

Yep, I like it.

On second thought though, we are probably missing the essential CB's lol, who as you say are an important part of the build up.

True but its all relative. If you train it and drill the movement with and without the ball you can even get a spud to look half decent. This isn't the Serie A and we will never have the quality of Napoli but what we can do is try. 

[moops]

31 minutes ago, belaguttman said:

The change of pace is triggered by the player of the 3 that has the ball when the moment to attack is recognised. All 3 need to be trained to recognise that moment and the other 10 outfield players need to be trained how to create that moment through movement off the ball and then how to exploit it when the forward pass occurs. At the moment the ball moves forward so slowly that either:

no opportunity is created and the ball is recirculated back to the keeper to reset the attack

more often the player that receives the first pass takes so long to complete his pass (as he is poorly positioned or the player closer to the goal is poorly positioned) that he dispossessed

Oh mate, I fully agree, as I said it's my bugbear

It's all triangles, but it starts from the back.

Attack is initiated by the ball carrier, which is usuasly the WB, DM or Striker, it seems to fit Bratten and Fornoroli and Franjic

Edited March 28, 2017 by moops

[moops]

11 minutes ago, Jovan said:

True but its all relative. If you train it and drill the movement with and without the ball you can even get a spud to look half decent. This isn't the Serie A and we will never have the quality of Napoli but what we can do is try. 

Haha, true.

[belaguttman]

We aren't playing teams with the quality that Napoli faces either so we don't have to play at the same level in order to create space and overloads and our mistakes shouldn't be punished with the same frequency as they are in Serie A, however our mistakes are regularly punished because we make so many over the course of the game. We should be able to score more freely that we are with the quality that we have.

[Jovan]

9 minutes ago, belaguttman said:

We aren't playing teams with the quality that Napoli faces either so we don't have to play at the same level in order to create space and overloads and our mistakes shouldn't be punished with the same frequency as they are in Serie A, however our mistakes are regularly punished because we make so many over the course of the game. We should be able to score more freely that we are with the quality that we have.

At training back in the day (many days now) we would have to play games at a high intensity and try and play quick. No more than 2 touches were allowed. This crude and basic instruction was enough to cut open alot of equally skilled teams. Add that some basic positioning and team rules and even the weakest players became semi competant. 

It just frustrates me watching these highly skilled elite players playing slow safe possession with the main focus of retaining the ball at all costs. 

Keep possession but move it quick. At fault is the reciever as much as the passer. 

Soccer is afterall a very simple game.

[belaguttman]

The problem is also with they players without the ball. Their role in attack is to create space for the player with the ball and also the player receiving the ball

[japiedog]

10 hours ago, belaguttman said:

The problem is also with they players without the ball. Their role in attack is to create space for the player with the ball and also the player receiving the ball

it is the off the ball run that is most important, if a player isn't making an intelligent run, then the player with the ball can't make the pass, ie why Brattan dallies on the ball, remember Mooy used to be critised for this too

Kamau has to be the worst "off the ball" runner I've seen in the A League,

 

 

[rass]

One of the best discussions I've seen on this forum for quite a while.

[jeffplz]

14 hours ago, Jovan said:

At training back in the day (many days now) we would have to play games at a high intensity and try and play quick. No more than 2 touches were allowed. This crude and basic instruction was enough to cut open alot of equally skilled teams. Add that some basic positioning and team rules and even the weakest players became semi competant. 

It just frustrates me watching these highly skilled elite players playing slow safe possession with the main focus of retaining the ball at all costs. 

Keep possession but move it quick. At fault is the reciever as much as the passer. 

Soccer is afterall a very simple game.

I used to play entire halves without touching the ball, just positioning myself to draw out defenders and dummy a pass to a winger smashing down the flank behind me, would confuse a whole defense and more than 95% of the time create an opportunity. Seems the only player we have that can do this is Cahill

[Jovan]

1 minute ago, jeffplz said:

I used to play entire halves without touching the ball, just positioning myself to draw out defenders and dummy a pass to a winger smashing down the flank behind me, would confuse a whole defense and more than 95% of the time create an opportunity. Seems the only player we have that can do this is Cahill

Very very true. Bruno is good too. Especially when Cahill goes central he drifts wide (slowly they are working it out) but more often than not both players get killed by the slow ball movement from deep.

[Embee]

7 minutes ago, jeffplz said:

I used to play entire halves without touching the ball, just positioning myself to draw out defenders and dummy a pass to a winger smashing down the flank behind me, would confuse a whole defense and more than 95% of the time create an opportunity. Seems the only player we have that can do this is Cahill

Want a coaching job next season?

[jeffplz]

17 minutes ago, Embee said:

Want a coaching job next season?

Unfortunately that's all I know about tactics, we'd have 11 players avoiding the ball just for the sake of drawing out defenders for no reason

[playmaker]

Just read though the great discussion here with all th fantastic analysis I thought I would throw this up as I think it is relevant to tactics discussed and much more relevant to the A league's level.

It centres around a very simple game plan, coaching ability, fitness, team defence, and quick ball movement, instead of possession and a high level of individual player skill.

Enjoy.

Why Leicester City's seemingly simple tactics work so well

By Danny Murphy

MOTD pundit

12 Feb 2016

Leicester have lost only two out of 25 Premier League games this season, and what has been really refreshing about their success is they have simply stuck to what they are good at.

The reason so few sides have been able to deal with their tactics is not because they do not know how to cope with counter-attacks and an old-fashioned 4-4-2 formation, more that not many of them have even tried.

By that, I mean when teams have played the Foxes, they have believed they could beat them playing their way - and paid the price.

 

Foxes' formation is a perfect fit

Some people think the 4-4-2 formation Leicester use is a bit prehistoric but they are showing it is a great system when your players know how to play it perfectly.

The Foxes play the same way, home or away, whoever the opposition, with the full-backs staying back, two defensive midfielders shielding the back four and the second striker dropping into midfield

That is mostly down to coaching and the work they have done as a team in training, but it also relies on the intelligence of individuals to know they are all defending when they have not got the ball - which is a lot of the time.

Unlike the rest of the top teams, they are not bothered about possession - Leicester's passing statistics are among the worst in the top flight.

Premier League 2015-16 (and rank)

TeamAverage possessionPasses per game (average)Passing accuracy

1. Leicester41% (19)336 (19)69% (20)

2. Tottenham57% (4)486 (7)80% (7)

3. Arsenal56% (6)536 (2)84% (1)

4. Man City58% (2)538 (1)83.5% (2)

5. Man Utd58% (1)529 (3)83% (3)

Instead, they defend well, do not over-play at the back and get the ball upfield quickly, using the pace and efficiency of their forward players to punish teams.

They give the ball away a lot because they play a lot of quick, long passes forward into final third of the pitch.

West Brom are the only top-flight team to play a higher percentage of long passes and a lower percentage of short passes than Leicester

It is not always pretty, and is totally different to the way the rest of the leading teams play.

Those sides expect to dominate possession because, in most matches, they have the better players and they trust in their attacking quality and strength.

No-one can match their intensity

 

Nobody has been in awe of Leicester or given them respect and tried to shut up shop - and nobody, apart from Arsenal in September, seems to have been able to match their intensity and their attacking play.

That is going to change, although it will not happen this weekend.

Arsenal whacked Leicester 5-2 at the King Power Stadium, so I would be gobsmacked if the Gunners alter their possession-based attacking approach when they play them again at Emirates Stadium on Sunday (12:00 GMT).

But when teams like Norwich and West Brom visit the King Power in the next few weeks, I think we will find out how Leicester get on against totally defensive-minded opponents in games they will need to win if they are going to be champions.

Foxes play without pressure - Ranieri

To stop the Foxes, those teams will just drop off like Claudio Ranieri's side do, crowd the midfield to condense the play, and sit so deep Leicester cannot play long balls over the top.

They will deny them space to break into and make them pass their way through a packed defence, rather than let them run at a stretched defence - which is how many of their goals have come so far.

Fitness levels make Leicester harder to beat

Leicester are not the only Premier League team who play counter-attacking football - in October I looked at how West Ham and Crystal Palace have had some success playing that way too.

It is the Foxes who have been by far the most impressive, though, because they have been able to keep playing at a high tempo from the start to the finish of matches.

Leicester have scored 10 goals in the final 15 minutes of Premier League matches this season, which have earned them 12 points. The Foxes have also conceded nine goals in the final 15 minutes but only one of them has cost them points - Rudy Gestede's equaliser for Aston Villa in January

Again, that shows whatever they are doing in training is right, because I know from experience you do not just stay that fit over many months of the season.

Some people have said they have been fortunate not having many injuries. But is it luck, or is it down to a really good medical staff and a training regime that keeps the players fit and at the level of fitness required to play the way they do? I don't think it is a coincidence they have managed both.

Sure, you need some luck along the way too but I certainly think their fitness levels are far above most of the other top-flight teams.

That has made their style of play more effective, which has made them harder to beat. You cannot wear them down or just wait for them to tire.

No tinkering means team has gelled

Danny Simpson and Riyad Mahrez have played together down the right flank in Leicester's past 17 Premier League games

I was brought up playing 4-4-2 and for it to work well, you need to develop little partnerships all over the pitch.

For example, the relationship between the right-back and right-midfielder has to be spot on. The best example I can think of that in the past 25 years is at Manchester United, when they had Gary Neville and David Beckham.

Those link-ups are working for Leicester too. Riyad Mahrez does have some defensive responsibilities down the right, but he can also go wandering over to the left in the way he did to score against Manchester City because he knows that, behind him, Danny Simpson is going to keep his position - he is not expected to go past the halfway line much.

 

What has helped Leicester develop those sort of partnerships so effectively is having such consistent team selections.

Claudio Ranieri has picked the same team for the past five league matches and has made only 21 changes in 25 games, the fewest in the Premier League.

It means the team has gelled in lots of areas, and is another reason they have got better as the season has gone on.

Scoring first does not help either

When counter-attacking teams concede the first goal, they obviously have to respond by altering their tactics and are often less successful.

But you cannot say it is crucial to score first against Leicester because of how they reacted when that happened earlier in the season. We know they will still come at you.

Until the end of October, Leicester leaked a lot of goals and had to come from behind a lot - they did it six times in their first 11 games to gain 10 points, which gave them a reputation for having a never-say-die attitude.

Their defensive improvement means that has not happened much recently - they have conceded only eight goals in their past 14 league games, and have been behind only once in that time - when they lost to Liverpool on Boxing Day.

It is still important to score first in any game - statistically you have a much better chance of winning.

But the problem is if you go after Leicester early to try to get the first goal, that is when you are at your most vulnerable.

It is a Catch-22 situation, and Arsenal are the next team who must decide how to handle it.

 

[Embee]

50 minutes ago, jeffplz said:

Unfortunately that's all I know about tactics, we'd have 11 players avoiding the ball just for the sake of drawing out defenders for no reason

Would probably be better to watch than how we play at the moment to be honest.

[Jovan]

34 minutes ago, Embee said:

Would probably be better to watch than how we play at the moment to be honest.

Can't be worse.😁

[n i k o]

@playmaker Fitness levels and intensity no one could match. Also record low injuries and same starting eleven each week. Not suss at all. 

[fensaddler]

1 hour ago, n i k o said:

@playmaker Fitness levels and intensity no one could match. Also record low injuries and same starting eleven each week. Not suss at all. 

Are you suggesting pegasus pills? 

[playmaker]

3 hours ago, n i k o said:

@playmaker Fitness levels and intensity no one could match. Also record low injuries and same starting eleven each week. Not suss at all. 

 

I though this part was more relevant TBH 

Instead, they defend well, do not over-play at the back and get the ball upfield quickly, using the pace and efficiency of their forward players to punish teams.

which is the opposite of how we play and pretty much how teams play against us and win.

I thought it was a good read for those interested, and what's also interesting is that the last time we played a similar tactic and structure was when we stopped Adelaide's red hot winning streak last season

Edited March 29, 2017 by playmaker

[n i k o]

1 hour ago, playmaker said:

 

I though this part was more relevant TBH 

Instead, they defend well, do not over-play at the back and get the ball upfield quickly, using the pace and efficiency of their forward players to punish teams.

which is the opposite of how we play and pretty much how teams play against us and win.

I thought it was a good read for those interested, and what's also interesting is that the last time we played a similar tactic and structure was when we stopped Adelaide's red hot winning streak last season

Tactically it's plainly obvious we need to play deeper for more sustained success. My point was outlining something different. 

[belaguttman]

4 hours ago, n i k o said:

@playmaker Fitness levels and intensity no one could match. Also record low injuries and same starting eleven each week. Not suss at all. 

That sounds like teams coached by Arnold who always uses Andrew Clarke as his fitness guru. 

[playmaker]

May 10 2017 11:11AM

Arsene Wenger pointed to a trend in the Premier League, comparing Chelsea to Leicester City.

Arsenal manager Arsene Wenger questioned Chelsea's style as Antonio Conte's men close in on the Premier League title.

Wenger's teams have been renowned for playing possession-based games, but Chelsea are sixth in that statistic this season with 54.2 per cent.

That follows on from Leicester City's remarkable title-winning campaign of 2015-16, when they ranked 18th with just 42.4.

Wenger pointed to the trend of the Premier League's top teams, and said a lack of European football also helped.

"Over the last two seasons, teams who have not big possession have won the league," he told UK newspapers.

"And, as well, teams who were not involved in Europe, at all, won the league.

"Because the league is so physically difficult, maybe it is very difficult to cope with both. We will see how Chelsea respond next season."

While Wenger likes his teams to keep possession, Arsenal's last league title came in 2003-04.

Chelsea can secure their crown by beating West Brom on Friday, but Wenger has no plans to change.

"Over a longer period it is still the teams who have the most possession," he said.

"I still think a sport has to encourage initiative and if it rewards too much teams who don’t take the initiative, then we have to rethink the whole process because people will not, forever, come to watch teams who do not want to take the initiative."

 

https://www.fourfourtwo.com.au/news/not-much-possession-wenger-questions-chelsea-style-461157?utm_source=twitter&utm_medium=social&utm_campaign=insidesport_autopost

 

[playmaker]

 Old Melbourne city management team please note:

It's not a matter of playing one tactic and style over and over and expecting something different, it's actually about changing your tactics to exploit the opposition weaknesses and nullifying their strengths. 

Still fuming after that wasted season btw.

 

 

Good read.

FourFourTwo UK

A simple tactic involving Real Madrid's wide men was the key factor behind their Champions League final win, according to Luka Modric.

Real Madrid midfielder Luka Modric has explained how Zinedine Zidane identified a weakness in the Juventus defence that was key to their Champions League triumph.

The Serie A champions progressed to the showpiece in Cardiff having suffered no defeats and conceded only three goals in their 12 games in the tournament, but Madrid blew them away with a superb second-half showing to secure a 4-1 victory.

Modric has revealed that head coach Zidane had encouraged his players to use quick passing down the flanks and deliveries on the ground in order to make life as difficult as possible for the Juve back three of Andrea Barzagli, Leonardo Bonucci and Giorgio Chiellini.

"Zidane and his staff detected Juventus' defensive weakness, so throughout the week, in preparation for the final, we practiced return passes," Modric told HTV and Sportske Novosti.

"Juventus' defence is great when it comes to crosses, but not so on low return passes. That is what we worked on and that is how we scored three of our goals in the final. Congratulations to the coach for that detail, which was the key in the final."

 

 

[Torn Asunder]

 ... and it helps when you have this guy as your finisher