Warren Joyce. As predicted by Serb Hair Dresser.. Goneski

[belaguttman]

10 hours ago, CityHeart said:

Can anyone provide an argument, based on any metric you like - as to how the club could possibly keep this bloke post Monday (at the latest)?

 

Yes, the franchise hasn't the budget allocated for a payout fee

[jw1739]

3 hours ago, Dylan said:

I reckon after last night he would be pretty close to losing the dressing room. No matter what public face Joyce, players or the club put on at events or interviews etc.

But in all seriousness there is no point in sacking him. If I were the club I’d just be focusing on the replacement and deciding which players they want to keep.

I notice that Milicic is only being announced as interim Matildas coach which is interesting

Why do we have to sack him? He didn't sack Bruno - just sidelined him. So sideline Joyce, and put Kisnorbo in charge for the remaining eight matches.

Then do as @Dylan suggests, commence the search for a new manager now so that he can come on board in time to decide on any players we want to keep, and who we want to try and add for next season.

On that latter point, I'd say that the team looks dispirited and beaten just now. I would be adopting the approach that anyone who is out of contract on 31st May will not be offered a new contract unless there's a very good reason to do so - based on on-field performance rather than this "training" obsession that Joyce has.

We're following that oh-so-familiar path that we've trodden before. The club needs a circuit-breaker.

Edited February 15, 2019 by jw1739

[playmaker]

If the club didn't put certain performance objectives in his contract, then they are idiots.

If they did, he has surely failed all of them and the club can get rid of him with no payout.

On the other hand this club is managed by idiots so who knows.

[CityHeart]

3 hours ago, belaguttman said:

Yes, the franchise hasn't the budget allocated for a payout fee

what fee? His contract expires at the end of the season.

Just end him, and someone from within takes over. There is no 'extra' cost unless we decide to bring in a caretaker coach now.

2 hours ago, jw1739 said:

We're following that oh-so-familiar path that we've trodden before. The club needs a circuit-breaker.

In all sports, the circuit breaker IS removing the coach. Be it Manchester United, an AFL club or us.

It really isn't rocket science, and if we dont sack him and make a statement, that says more about us IMHO and I really worry about the direction.

Munn, Joyce at a minimum OUT. 

I said this at the early part of the season, and will continue to stick to it. I will not attend nor spend a further cent on this club until they are both gone. No exceptions.

[Imtellingyou]

'But we had possession ... I don't understand what happened...'

Having posesion is not a bad thing but dominant teams mostly score at ease. We hardly create clear cut chances in the last two seasons. He lost the game and completely lost the plot with inclusion of the two strikers in the lineup.  He can only play defensively minded setup with no straight strikers. 

He has committed a sport mortal sin by removing the best player from the team and not performing well overall. This decision had to be master stroke but it failed on him. It failed also on all supporting club structures.

I'm not sure what are the sporting cultural benefits and advantages after he leaves post this season. 

[JMSTEP123]

7 minutes ago, Imtellingyou said:

'But we had possession ... I don't understand what happened...'

Having posesion is not a bad thing but dominant teams mostly score at ease. We hardly create clear cut chances in the last two seasons. He lost the game and completely lost the plot with inclusion of the two strikers in the lineup.  He can only play defensively minded setup with no straight strikers. 

He has committed a sport mortal sin by removing the best player from the team and not performing well overall. This decision had to be master stroke but it failed on him. It failed also on all supporting club structures.

I'm not sure what are the sporting cultural benefits and advantages after he leaves post this season. 

Thats it. I am pro cultural changes and there have been marked improvements in our defence - thank you Bart. But this team is weak as piss. The hard nobbed culture we have tried to create has only created flandering and procrastinating players who second guess, procrastinate and follow the same system of play because this is what has been drilled in. There is zero creativity evident in our play - I can only think back to round 1 and Brattans great ball to kill off the Derby. I swear every week I watch a carbon copy... players doing the same shit, making the same mistakes and inevitably dropping their chins knowing how fucking dire our play is. More frustrating is the gap between our current potential and the current reality.

Fucking Joyce has to be done. The culture change has not happened. We are not a winning team. We are not challenging for the title. We are not playing at expectations, let alone getting the most out of the players. Joyce has depressed the masses and created so much complacency... this is not a winning team, nor a winning culture.

The time has come now to put pressure on the club. We cant pissfart around wasting the few games we have left. Accept our mistakes and own them - make the hard call and bring in sweeping changes. Until then we will continue on this downward trajectory with each passing moment being exponentially further the climb back up.

[AntiScum]

9 minutes ago, JMSTEP123 said:

Thats it. I am pro cultural changes and there have been marked improvements in our defence - thank you Bart. But this team is weak as piss. The hard nobbed culture we have tried to create has only created flandering and procrastinating players who second guess, procrastinate and follow the same system of play because this is what has been drilled in. There is zero creativity evident in our play - I can only think back to round 1 and Brattans great ball to kill off the Derby. I swear every week I watch a carbon copy... players doing the same shit, making the same mistakes and inevitably dropping their chins knowing how fucking dire our play is. More frustrating is the gap between our current potential and the current reality.

Fucking Joyce has to be done. The culture change has not happened. We are not a winning team. We are not challenging for the title. We are not playing at expectations, let alone getting the most out of the players. Joyce has depressed the masses and created so much complacency... this is not a winning team, nor a winning culture.

The time has come now to put pressure on the club. We cant pissfart around wasting the few games we have left. Accept our mistakes and own them - make the hard call and bring in sweeping changes. Until then we will continue on this downward trajectory with each passing moment being exponentially further the climb back up.

I'm not sure what exactly a cultural change is, but if your manager consistently drops, isolates, gets rid of your best players, surely the blame lies with the manager and what ever culture his trying to set. And on this occasion I don't even think he knows what culture his trying to achieve 🤷🏽‍♂️

[JMSTEP123]

Just now, AntiScum said:

I'm not sure what exactly a cultural change is, but if your manager consistently drops, isolates, gets rid of your best players, surely the blame lies with the manager and what ever culture his trying to set. And on this occasion I don't even think he knows what culture his trying to achieve 🤷🏽‍♂️

Okay - 3 issues here.

1. The culture we needed to change - to this extent is was the 'soft underbelly' that was probably costing us statistically 10-15 points across the season. I.e. we had the firepower to win, but the GD and conceding was costing us what constituted other teams wins.

2. The culture we wanted to create - a better defensive record to mitigate the above culture (Aka Joyce appointment and to this extend I would view as a win... though not a systemic or cultural win, purely a statistical win based on better players in these positions). The best test of this will be once Joyce leaves where we go - obviously it will depend on a manager BUT I can easily see us slipping into old habits and losing quality players and not bringing in players to cover these losses. We will go back to a poor defensive record. I do not just mean our CBs either - playing mostly defensive has improved these stats but obviously countered others.

3. Identifying why the culture was as it was (aka R Hodgson visit and even Peps preseason tour). Joyce was given 2 season. We accepted the first but this 2nd has been attrocious from many perspectives. Mostly in that he is failing to create a winning culture, and in the pursuit of culture he has isolated some of our best, deflated many others and reigned oppression on the group insofar as the players cannot express their creativity or style at fear of being the next head on the chopping block.

I admire Jamos messages of support telling fans that the players fully support Joyce and these cultural expectations in the playing group and meeting these expectations. In reality I fail to believe him and I think it is evident in so many others play and gestures just how much the dislike what they belong to. Not to say we cannot turn it around - I look at it as very similar to Man United as of recent. We just need to fuck Joyce off and bring some trust back into the playing group.

[Mr MO]

8 minutes ago, JMSTEP123 said:

Okay - 3 issues here.

1. The culture we needed to change - to this extent is was the 'soft underbelly' that was probably costing us statistically 10-15 points across the season. I.e. we had the firepower to win, but the GD and conceding was costing us what constituted other teams wins.

2. The culture we wanted to create - a better defensive record to mitigate the above culture (Aka Joyce appointment and to this extend I would view as a win... though not a systemic or cultural win, purely a statistical win based on better players in these positions). The best test of this will be once Joyce leaves where we go - obviously it will depend on a manager BUT I can easily see us slipping into old habits and losing quality players and not bringing in players to cover these losses. We will go back to a poor defensive record. I do not just mean our CBs either - playing mostly defensive has improved these stats but obviously countered others.

3. Identifying why the culture was as it was (aka R Hodgson visit and even Peps preseason tour). Joyce was given 2 season. We accepted the first but this 2nd has been attrocious from many perspectives. Mostly in that he is failing to create a winning culture, and in the pursuit of culture he has isolated some of our best, deflated many others and reigned oppression on the group insofar as the players cannot express their creativity or style at fear of being the next head on the chopping block.

I admire Jamos messages of support telling fans that the players fully support Joyce and these cultural expectations in the playing group and meeting these expectations. In reality I fail to believe him and I think it is evident in so many others play and gestures just how much the dislike what they belong to. Not to say we cannot turn it around - I look at it as very similar to Man United as of recent. We just need to fuck Joyce off and bring some trust back into the playing group.

1. We still have a soft underbelly and concede soft goals. We’ve been lucky so many games earlier in the season and this luck has run out.

2. Defensive record bla bla bla. The only reason we look a little bit better at the back is because of Schenkeveld.

[JMSTEP123]

10 minutes ago, Mr MO said:

1. We still have a soft underbelly and concede soft goals. We’ve been lucky so many games earlier in the season and this luck has run out.

2. Defensive record bla bla bla. The only reason we look a little bit better at the back is because of Schenkeveld.

Thank you for putting it succinctly. My Philosophy major was good in many ways, but babbling was always a consequence. I believe these are the reasons why we can warrant Joyces departure - what he was asked to achieve he has failed and the consequence of trying to achieve it has left us worse off.

Also on your 2nd point. Yes to Schenks and minor props to first half Galek and Delbo. But as I said these are not cultural changes just characteristics of good defenders. But where has this got us when we can barely score a goal each game?

Edited February 16, 2019 by JMSTEP123

[AntiScum]

18 minutes ago, JMSTEP123 said:

Okay - 3 issues here.

1. The culture we needed to change - to this extent is was the 'soft underbelly' that was probably costing us statistically 10-15 points across the season. I.e. we had the firepower to win, but the GD and conceding was costing us what constituted other teams wins.

2. The culture we wanted to create - a better defensive record to mitigate the above culture (Aka Joyce appointment and to this extend I would view as a win... though not a systemic or cultural win, purely a statistical win based on better players in these positions). The best test of this will be once Joyce leaves where we go - obviously it will depend on a manager BUT I can easily see us slipping into old habits and losing quality players and not bringing in players to cover these losses. We will go back to a poor defensive record. I do not just mean our CBs either - playing mostly defensive has improved these stats but obviously countered others.

3. Identifying why the culture was as it was (aka R Hodgson visit and even Peps preseason tour). Joyce was given 2 season. We accepted the first but this 2nd has been attrocious from many perspectives. Mostly in that he is failing to create a winning culture, and in the pursuit of culture he has isolated some of our best, deflated many others and reigned oppression on the group insofar as the players cannot express their creativity or style at fear of being the next head on the chopping block.

I admire Jamos messages of support telling fans that the players fully support Joyce and these cultural expectations in the playing group and meeting these expectations. In reality I fail to believe him and I think it is evident in so many others play and gestures just how much the dislike what they belong to. Not to say we cannot turn it around - I look at it as very similar to Man United as of recent. We just need to fuck Joyce off and bring some trust back into the playing group.

Sorry but your points are invalid when the same crap keeps happening season after season after season!!!! 

The culture begins at the very top and filters down!! 

You use winning possession stat's as an argument is the most laughable comment I've ever heard. You can have 95% possession but if YOU DON'T SCORE YOU DON'T WIN!!! 

[JMSTEP123]

7 minutes ago, AntiScum said:

Sorry but your points are invalid when the same crap keeps happening season after season after season!!!! 

The culture begins at the very top and filters down!! 

You use winning possession stat's as an argument is the most laughable comment I've ever heard. You can have 95% possession but if YOU DON'T SCORE YOU DON'T WIN!!! 

Think you misread me, or I didnt make my point well enough.

I was responding to a comment about a culture Joyce was trying to bring in. I was commenting on why I thought it was needed and evaluating how effective he has been. And I said he has failed at it. There has been none and we have gone backwards.

So either we are in agreeance that Joyce has failed OR you support Joyce and disagree with my points as a matter of overall opinion. Read my points again. I am not saying they are right it is just how I see it.

I want Joyce gone. He has fucked this club and not delivered what was needed. He is clearly not the man for the job - dead set end of story.

Only important stat at the end of the game is the scoreline - everything else is secondary. Only important benchmark at the end of a season is potential V realised output - everything else is secondary.

My last point on culture is this - I am fucking sick of City Group giving a 10 year plan. It justifies the current stuffing arohnd we see. Deferred decisions that cost in the short term can be justified as long term changes. Too much weight is given to culture.

Edited February 16, 2019 by JMSTEP123

[AntiScum]

17 minutes ago, JMSTEP123 said:

Think you misread me, or I didnt make my point well enough.

I was responding to a comment about a culture Joyce was trying to bring in. I was commenting on why I thought it was needed and evaluating how effective he has been. And I said he has failed at it. There has been none and we have gone backwards.

So either we are in agreeance that Joyce has failed OR you support Joyce and disagree with my points as a matter of overall opinion. Read my points again. I am not saying they are right it is just how I see it.

I want Joyce gone. He has fucked this club and not delivered what was needed. He is clearly not the man for the job - dead set end of story.

Only important stat at the end of the game is the scoreline - everything else is secondary. Only important benchmark at the end of a season is potential V realised output - everything else is secondary.

My last point on culture is this - I am fucking sick of City Group giving a 10 year plan. It justifies the current stuffing arohnd we see. Deferred decisions that cost in the short term can be justified as long term changes. Too much weight is given to culture.

I can't stand Joyce and his bullshit all talk game. Name one current top British manager? The only top British manager I can ever think of and that's Fergie!! 

The club have bought all the big guns down and what exactly has that achieved? A further 10 steps back!!! 

They might want to start with a current right here right now plan before worrying about 10yrs down the track. 

Sack the old board, coaches, grab a bulldozer and start again & in my opinion this club is finished with Western United coming in because I can guarantee they'll listen to the fans, get the right people involved and they'll be Western Sydney MKII (decent crowds/atmosphere/etc) ....... 

 

Edited February 16, 2019 by AntiScum

[Mr MO]

8 minutes ago, JMSTEP123 said:

Okay - 3 issues here.

1. The culture we needed to change - to this extent is was the 'soft underbelly' that was probably costing us statistically 10-15 points across the season. I.e. we had the firepower to win, but the GD and conceding was costing us what constituted other teams wins.

2. The culture we wanted to create - a better defensive record to mitigate the above culture (Aka Joyce appointment and to this extend I would view as a win... though not a systemic or cultural win, purely a statistical win based on better players in these positions). The best test of this will be once Joyce leaves where we go - obviously it will depend on a manager BUT I can easily see us slipping into old habits and losing quality players and not bringing in players to cover these losses. We will go back to a poor defensive record. I do not just mean our CBs either - playing mostly defensive has improved these stats but obviously countered others.

3. Identifying why the culture was as it was (aka R Hodgson visit and even Peps preseason tour). Joyce was given 2 season. We accepted the first but this 2nd has been attrocious from many perspectives. Mostly in that he is failing to create a winning culture, and in the pursuit of culture he has isolated some of our best, deflated many others and reigned oppression on the group insofar as the players cannot express their creativity or style at fear of being the next head on the chopping block.

I admire Jamos messages of support telling fans that the players fully support Joyce and these cultural expectations in the playing group and meeting these expectations. In reality I fail to believe him and I think it is evident in so many others play and gestures just how much the dislike what they belong to. Not to say we cannot turn it around - I look at it as very similar to Man United as of recent. We just need to fuck Joyce off and bring some trust back into the playing group.

1. We still have a soft underbelly and concede soft goals. We’ve been lucky so many games earlier in the season and this luck has run out.

2. Defensive record bla bla bla. The only reason we look a little bit better at the back is because of Schenkeveld.

[JMSTEP123]

7 minutes ago, AntiScum said:

I can't stand Joyce and his bullshit all talk game. Name one current top British manager? The only top British manager I can ever think of and that's Fergie!! 

The club have bought all the big guns down and what exactly has that achieved? A further 10 steps back!!! 

They might want to start with a current right here right now plan before worrying about 10yrs down the track. 

Sack the old board, coaches, grab a bulldozer and start again & in my opinion this club is finished with Western United coming in because I can guarantee they'll listen to the fans, get the right people involved and they'll be Western Sydney MKII....... 

 

Yes we are so far back it is beyond the pale. I think Hodgsons assessment of our culture was correct, though identifying who was responsible for this and who and how it may be changed has been wrong on so many levels. Now we have a train wreck to fix whereas is would have just been nice to continue our attacking reputation whilst simply tightening up at the back and bringing some creativity in the middle to fill the hole left by Mooy. 

Yes to Right Here, Right Now Plan. This idea could gain so much traction. Using the City song to deliver a political message - stop with the long term bullshit, we want success here and now.  

Edited February 16, 2019 by JMSTEP123

[AntiScum]

18 minutes ago, JMSTEP123 said:

Yes we are so far back it is beyond the pale. I think Hodgsons assessment of our culture was correct, though identifying who was responsible for this and who and how it may be changed has been wrong on so many levels. Now we have a train wreck to fix whereas is would have just been nice to continue our attacking reputation whilst simply tightening up at the back and bringing some creativity in the middle to fill the hole left by Mooy. 

Yes to Right Here, Right Now Plan. This idea could gain so much traction. Using the City song to deliver a political message - stop with the long term bullshit, we want success here and now.  

Giving away 1000s of free passes via maccas is not only a slap in the face to long term members and supporters is a disgrace. Look after what you currently have and deliver a good brand of football and people will come. 

[JMSTEP123]

6 minutes ago, AntiScum said:

Giving away 1000s of free passes via maccas is not only a slap in the face to long term members and supporters is a disgrace. Look after what you currently have and deliver a good brand of football and people will come. 

Yeah the buzz has gone. Still cannot believe our best days are gone - back then there was the excitment that we were building to something special. We were far from perfect but we delivered something that supporters could get behind.

Those days are long gone.

[jw1739]

45 minutes ago, JMSTEP123 said:

Yes we are so far back it is beyond the pale. I think Hodgsons assessment of our culture was correct, though identifying who was responsible for this and who and how it may be changed has been wrong on so many levels. Now we have a train wreck to fix whereas is would have just been nice to continue our attacking reputation whilst simply tightening up at the back and bringing some creativity in the middle to fill the hole left by Mooy. 

Yes to Right Here, Right Now Plan. This idea could gain so much traction. Using the City song to deliver a political message - stop with the long term bullshit, we want success here and now.  

Excellent idea. Simple chant - "We want change - right here, right now."

[belaguttman]

46 minutes ago, jw1739 said:

Excellent idea. Simple chant - "We want change - right here, right now."

What do we want? Change

When do we want it? Now

[DukeVader]

Weird i havent read any articles saying Joyce is sacked yet? 🤔

[Afif Adam]

30 minutes ago, belaguttman said:

What do we want? Change

When do we want it? Now

who do we want ? Rudan 

[AntiScum]

7 minutes ago, DukeVader said:

Weird i havent read any articles saying Joyce is sacked yet? 🤔

You'll be waiting a while 😔

 

Just now, Afif Adam said:

who do we want ? Rudan 

Western Melbourne have him apparently. 

[NewConvert]

I have sadly come to the conclusion that John Aloisi is a better coach than Joyce. Given the players that Aloisi had when he was coaching Heart versus the players that Joyce has, Aloisi will run rings around Joyce.

I certainly do hope that the club is doing a search because if they wait until the end of the season then recruiting will painfully slow. Personally, I would approach a number of reasonably well credentialed coaches and let them watch City games live. After the final whistle is gone, then show Joyce the door (although I would do that right now) and immediately install the new coach. Then he can keep players that he wants and bring in players that can fill a gap.

[jw1739]

I think the club should also consider installing Joe Palatsides as Acting Head Coach for the rest of the season. He is by far our longest serving member of the club's coaching staff, and has plenty of experience, and IMO he'd be a healing influence during what are very troubled times for the club.

[NuggetsMcGreggor]

Dragan pls

[DukeVader]

Still haven't seen anything saying hes sacked??? Maybe tomorrow when everyones back in the office 😊

[JMSTEP123]

47 minutes ago, DukeVader said:

Still haven't seen anything saying hes sacked??? Maybe tomorrow when everyones back in the office 😊

Dont hold out. Club in for short term pain for long term gain

[JMSTEP123]

So what is everyones assessment - should Joyce be sacked or see out the season?

[johnno cpfc]

Get rid !!!total garbage manager specially man management .. Players are human being like all of us and cannot be continually treated like machines.

 

[rayv36]

53 minutes ago, JMSTEP123 said:

So what is everyones assessment - should Joyce be sacked or see out the season?

Surely you don’t need to even ask the question 

[JMSTEP123]

4 minutes ago, rayv36 said:

Surely you don’t need to even ask the question 

I know the general consensus. Just wondering whether some people still think he should at least see out the season?

[jw1739]

24 minutes ago, JMSTEP123 said:

I know the general consensus. Just wondering whether some people still think he should at least see out the season?

I think he should be sidelined into a sinecure position until his contract is up and that either Paddy Kisnorbo or Joe Palatsides (or both jointly) should act in a caretaker role until the end of the season. With eight matches to go we would need a miracle to finish 4th, and we will finish somewhere 5th-7th. We've got nothing to lose by putting Paddy and Joe in charge - I can't see that they will be any worse than Joyce, and I think that they can bring some sanity back to the selections and the way we play, and at least finish the season with a more positive vibe for the players and the club's supporters.

Joyce may be a likeable bloke when you meet him and a good raconteur, but continuing with him and his philosophies is doing quite a lot of damage. I don't think that's good for the future of the club, and will indeed be an impediment to its growth. We've already seen that in player departures and in attendances.

There's no way I think his contract should be extended, so why not make the change now?

[Afif Adam]

OUT

[JMSTEP123]

35 minutes ago, jw1739 said:

I think he should be sidelined into a sinecure position until his contract is up and that either Paddy Kisnorbo or Joe Palatsides (or both jointly) should act in a caretaker role until the end of the season. With eight matches to go we would need a miracle to finish 4th, and we will finish somewhere 5th-7th. We've got nothing to lose by putting Paddy and Joe in charge - I can't see that they will be any worse than Joyce, and I think that they can bring some sanity back to the selections and the way we play, and at least finish the season with a more positive vibe for the players and the club's supporters.

Joyce may be a likeable bloke when you meet him and a good raconteur, but continuing with him and his philosophies is doing quite a lot of damage. I don't think that's good for the future of the club, and will indeed be an impediment to its growth. We've already seen that in player departures and in attendances.

There's no way I think his contract should be extended, so why not make the change now?

This forum... I swear. If only it were more than a few pissed off individuals posting on a forum. This is a political statement I wish CFG read. Seems wasted on us few.

100% agreeance. I hope sanity prevails as we could all use a bit of it in these times.

[playmaker]

22 minutes ago, JMSTEP123 said:

If only it were more than a few pissed off individuals posting on a forum

If you add Facebook and Twitter and Instagram you will find its more than a few.

The 20 odd people that I have introduced in the last 3 years aren't interested anymore after witnessing the total rabble dished out by the team this year, and some are actually going to watch Honda and Toivonen, and my family don't want to go anymore.

Multiply this scenario by a couple of hundred and there is your low crowd numbers and failure of the club to grow.

Sad times.

[JMSTEP123]

11 minutes ago, playmaker said:

If you add Facebook and Twitter and Instagram you will find its more than a few.

The 20 odd people that I have introduced in the last 3 years aren't interested anymore after witnessing the total rabble dished out by the team this year, and some are actually going to watch Honda and Toivonen, and my family don't want to go anymore.

Multiply this scenario by a couple of hundred and there is your low crowd numbers and failure of the club to grow.

Sad times.

Very true. I guess the sentiment is everywhere. Ever since I witnessed CFG officials removing #Joyceout signs at AAMI I realised we have shit all power over this situation.

[thisphantomfortress]

Heard a rumour that he's gone, wonder how this will play out. 

[JMSTEP123]

Just now, thisphantomfortress said:

Heard a rumour that he's gone, wonder how this will play out. 

Wow. Fingers crossed

[jw1739]

27 minutes ago, JMSTEP123 said:

Very true. I guess the sentiment is everywhere. Ever since I witnessed CFG officials removing #Joyceout signs at AAMI I realised we have shit all power over this situation.

Correct. we have no voice at all. "City Voice" dead, the Fan Representative Group moribund. We never see any feedback from surveys.

What we need is that voice. Surely someone has a contact in the media who would be prepared to expose the mismanagement, the hypocrisies, the truth behind player departures, the fan frustration etc?

[Dylan]

4 minutes ago, thisphantomfortress said:

Heard a rumour that he's gone, wonder how this will play out. 

Serb hair dresser?