Warren Joyce. As predicted by Serb Hair Dresser.. Goneski

[silloth52]

Quote

If top 3 is indeed the criterion, then Joyce might as well start packing now and let Kisnorbo and Vidmar see what they can do in the remainder of the season.

vidmar gone

kayo match commentator let it drop

[Mr MO]

1 hour ago, HughJass said:

Source? Thought he was on the field during the warm up 

I think we are mixing up the Vidmars, Adelaide’s one has resigned.

[jw1739]

5 minutes ago, Mr MO said:

I think we are mixing up the Vidmars, Adelaide’s one has resigned.

Yes, it's Aurelio Vidmar who has quite Adelaide. https://www.a-league.com.au/news/adelaide-united-club-statement-aurelio-vidmar

[HeartOfCity]

Any of the new boys from City Terrace got a Joyce Out chant ready to go???? Have a feeling it might be useful in the Derby. 

[Harrison]

I think he is now under the pump. 

Top three is gone. Only a Championship will save him now IMO, especially at the end of his contract. 

[Jacques Le Cube]

15 hours ago, jw1739 said:

Yes, it's Aurelio Vidmar who has quit Adelaide. https://www.a-league.com.au/news/adelaide-united-club-statement-aurelio-vidmar

Michael Petrillo likes this.

[fensaddler]

1 hour ago, Harrison said:

I think he is now under the pump. 

Top three is gone. Only a Championship will save him now IMO, especially at the end of his contract. 

Top four is all but gone. Top three is now with the unicorns and fairies. Fifth is the best we're likely to achieve, and we could well not make that. We're not winning the finals from there. 

[Shahanga]

Warren Joyce. The man who amongst other things ostracised the best midfielder and best striker in the league.

He should be proud.

[Dylan]

16 minutes ago, Shahanga said:

Warren Joyce. The man who amongst other things ostracised the best midfielder and best striker in the league.

He should be proud.

bUt JoYCE iS cHanGiNg ThE cUlTuRE

[AntiScum]

17 minutes ago, Dylan said:

bUt JoYCE iS cHanGiNg ThE cUlTuRE

To what culture his trying to achieve only god knows.

Shipping out your best players is a great idea!!!

[haz]

I'm starting to think from the comments made about Joyce at the function last night is that he's a shit manager, but seems to get his job from being a nice bloke. Too bad that approach doesn't work with women.

[malloy]

21 minutes ago, haz said:

I'm starting to think from the comments made about Joyce at the function last night is that he's a shit manager, but seems to get his job from being a nice bloke. Too bad that approach doesn't work with women.

I would say it is more a case of not being able translate what he knows out onto the pitch (more so when it isn't a team filled with 'yes men' i.e. a team filled with youth). I would say his likability isn't because he is nice rsther it us that he is genuine. He comes across as very much a straight shooter and tbf him being genuine has probably meant that he hasn't thrown players under the bus when he quite easily could have.

That being said I still think he should go.

[AntiScum]

3 hours ago, malloy said:

I would say it is more a case of not being able translate what he knows out onto the pitch (more so when it isn't a team filled with 'yes men' i.e. a team filled with youth). I would say his likability isn't because he is nice rsther it us that he is genuine. He comes across as very much a straight shooter and tbf him being genuine has probably meant that he hasn't thrown players under the bus when he quite easily could have.

That being said I still think he should go.

You`re right, he hasn`t thrown them under a bus!!

His thrown them under a bus, run them over, did a U turn and ran them over again ..........

[fensaddler]

4 hours ago, haz said:

I'm starting to think from the comments made about Joyce at the function last night is that he's a shit manager, but seems to get his job from being a nice bloke. Too bad that approach doesn't work with women.

In my experience, it doesn't work any better with blokes than women. Some people get away with being 'clubbable' as a substitute for competence and some don't (male or female), and that's as much about the failings of the organisation as the individual.  I tend to think there's something bigger that we're not seeing, because we're seeing Wazza as genuine, and as best we can perceive, capable. He has a good reputation in football. So why isn't it working? Is it that he's fundamentally the wrong person, or not sufficiently capable, or is there something still in the organisation that's stuffing things up? I can't possibly know, but the evidence of our eyes suggests that neither Wazza nor Munn as people are the problem. But the organisation is still failing against it's key metrics.  We're back to a cultural problem. Or an ancient curse.

[HEARTinator]

1 hour ago, fensaddler said:

In my experience, it doesn't work any better with blokes than women. Some people get away with being 'clubbable' as a substitute for competence and some don't (male or female), and that's as much about the failings of the organisation as the individual.  I tend to think there's something bigger that we're not seeing, because we're seeing Wazza as genuine, and as best we can perceive, capable. He has a good reputation in football. So why isn't it working? Is it that he's fundamentally the wrong person, or not sufficiently capable, or is there something still in the organisation that's stuffing things up? I can't possibly know, but the evidence of our eyes suggests that neither Wazza nor Munn as people are the problem. But the organisation is still failing against it's key metrics.  We're back to a cultural problem. Or an ancient curse.

There's no curse involved I'm pretty sure. The issue IMO is that we have been poorly served by those who have appointed our gaffers. Take a look at our distinguished list:

JVS, Aloisi, JVS, Valkanis and now Joyce.

Before coming to us: JVS (stints as Ajax youth team, and Ajax and Dutch national team assistant coach), Aloisi (Heart youth), Valkanis (Adelaide United caretaker than assistant), Joyce (player/manager Hull, manager Royal Antwerp, ManU reserves, manager Wigan).

None of these guys distinguished themselves as senior coaches before they landed on our door step. You can look at the Wigan fan forum website to get a feeling for how fans were reacting to Joyce in 2017, like:

Feb 2017

"I was surprised at the timing of Caldwell's sacking but understood why it happened.
I was even more surprised at Joyce's appointment but I thought I understood why he was brought in given his success with young players and how we need to develop our own if we are to be successful in the future.
Even though we had a poor start under Joyce I gave him the benefit of the doubt as he was working with players that he hadn't chosen and needed a transfer window to change things around.
I had hope in January when Morsey returned with a bang and we won a few matches, I thought we may have turned a corner.
Alas no, since then, negative tactics have taken over, since Yanic went we haven't played with a winger and yesterday was the most diabolical team set up I have ever seen.
A back four, 2 holding midfielders and 2 additional central midfielders lumping balls up to 2 inexperienced strikers !! No width, no quality and no attempts on goal. Complete and utter rubbish.
I've tried to be positive and give Joyce the time to turn things around but yesterday I realised he is truly clueless.
The sooner we get rid the better as he is taking us down without a fight. "

Some of the comments here seem very familiar to us such as the references to Joyce developing youth.

Joyce appears to be a nice guy, made a name for himself coaching youth but his success at senior levels was uninspiring. Like JVS. If we wanted our HAL team to win silverware then, on his managerial form, he wasn't the right man. If it's about youth development then maybe the appointment makes sense.

Edited February 13, 2019 by HEARTinator

[playmaker]

1 hour ago, fensaddler said:

but the evidence of our eyes suggests that neither Wazza nor Munn as people are the problem.

 

As a matter of urgency, you need to see an optometrist.

Seriously.

[CityHeart]

14 hours ago, fensaddler said:

In my experience, it doesn't work any better with blokes than women. Some people get away with being 'clubbable' as a substitute for competence and some don't (male or female), and that's as much about the failings of the organisation as the individual.  I tend to think there's something bigger that we're not seeing, because we're seeing Wazza as genuine, and as best we can perceive, capable. He has a good reputation in football. So why isn't it working? Is it that he's fundamentally the wrong person, or not sufficiently capable, or is there something still in the organisation that's stuffing things up? I can't possibly know, but the evidence of our eyes suggests that neither Wazza nor Munn as people are the problem. But the organisation is still failing against it's key metrics.  We're back to a cultural problem. Or an ancient curse.

Hi Scott.

Seriously, take that down. You're embarrassing yourself. 

[AntiScum]

16 hours ago, fensaddler said:

In my experience, it doesn't work any better with blokes than women. Some people get away with being 'clubbable' as a substitute for competence and some don't (male or female), and that's as much about the failings of the organisation as the individual.  I tend to think there's something bigger that we're not seeing, because we're seeing Wazza as genuine, and as best we can perceive, capable. He has a good reputation in football. So why isn't it working? Is it that he's fundamentally the wrong person, or not sufficiently capable, or is there something still in the organisation that's stuffing things up? I can't possibly know, but the evidence of our eyes suggests that neither Wazza nor Munn as people are the problem. But the organisation is still failing against it's key metrics.  We're back to a cultural problem. Or an ancient curse.

😲😲😲😲

Another club representative embarrassing themselves 😲

[fensaddler]

3 hours ago, AntiScum said:

😲😲😲😲

Another club representative embarrassing themselves 😲

Give it a rest sunshine. 

[Harrison]

3 minutes ago, fensaddler said:

Give it a rest sunshine. 

Maybe if you did work for the club, we wouldn't consistently underachieve!

[Torn Asunder]

I love reading all these criticisms that come from people that did not attend the event, suggesting to the people who went that they should have asked this or asked that.  There are some very vocal critics of the club on this forum (which is fine) ... if you are one of those people, please, make an effort to get to one of these events, and have the courage to front up to Wazza or Munn and call them out, and then come on here and tell us how far you got ...

[rass]

Gold, 1000% agree.

[n i k o]

45 minutes ago, Torn Asunder said:

I love reading all these criticisms that come from people that did not attend the event, suggesting to the people who went that they should have asked this or asked that.  There are some very vocal critics of the club on this forum (which is fine) ... if you are one of those people, please, make an effort to get to one of these events, and have the courage to front up to Wazza or Munn and call them out, and then come on here and tell us how far you got ...

I am not suggesting anyone should ask anything they don't want to ask so I'm sure this is directed at others. 

However i was critical of these people....so I'm highly doubting you could be suggesting that in order for my opinion to hold any weight I should criticise the club, coach or management openly at an organised event to the faces of these people? 

 

Edited February 15, 2019 by n i k o

[Torn Asunder]

I'd

1 hour ago, n i k o said:

I am not suggesting anyone should ask anything they don't want to ask so I'm sure this is directed at others. 

However i was critical of these people....so I'm highly doubting you could be suggesting that in order for my opinion to hold any weight I should criticise the club, coach or management openly at an organised event to the faces of these people? 

 

I'd love to hear how it would go if you did ... but it does take courage to front up to one of these scenarios and tell the likes of Munn he should be sacked, or Wazza that he has botched the whole Bruno thing ... 

and by the way, when I was head of the FRG and meeting with Munn on a regular basis, I would put these things to him (both personally, and on behalf of the forum), and he would also answer with considered professionalism.   

[jw1739]

2 hours ago, Torn Asunder said:

I love reading all these criticisms that come from people that did not attend the event, suggesting to the people who went that they should have asked this or asked that.  There are some very vocal critics of the club on this forum (which is fine) ... if you are one of those people, please, make an effort to get to one of these events, and have the courage to front up to Wazza or Munn and call them out, and then come on here and tell us how far you got ...

@Torn Asunder IMO "these criticisms" are more rhetorical questions than they are actual suggestions to those who attended the event that they should have done other than what they did. I think we all know that it's a lot easier to hide behind anonymity than it is to get up front and personal.

[n i k o]

31 minutes ago, Torn Asunder said:

I'd

I'd love to hear how it would go if you did ... but it does take courage to front up to one of these scenarios and tell the likes of Munn he should be sacked, or Wazza that he has botched the whole Bruno thing ... 

and by the way, when I was head of the FRG and meeting with Munn on a regular basis, I would put these things to him (both personally, and on behalf of the forum), and he would also answer with considered professionalism.   

To save us all the time why don't you really come out and say what you think about your standing amongst others who couldn't go or won't go. 

I am to assume that you are suggesting that my opinion doesn't hold as much weight. I'm won't go into why I can't go to events like this which you deem the barometer to someone's weight of their opinion. Nor will I go into things I've asked players and officials at events I've been to in the past. 

And now that you have given me your resume as well I can see why you have earned the right to be critical of things on a public forum and also feel that you can be the adjudicator on who has the right to be critical and who can't. 

 

[playmaker]

14 minutes ago, Torn Asunder said:

I'd love to hear how it would go if you did ... but it does take courage to front up to one of these scenarios and tell the likes of Munn he should be sacked, or Wazza that he has botched the whole Bruno thing ... 

and by the way, when I was head of the FRG and meeting with Munn on a regular basis, I would put these things to him (both personally, and on behalf of the forum), and he would also answer with considered professionalism.   

There is nothing stopping them from having a discussion here is there?

I mean, if they really want to reach out to the fans there a ways and no better way  than this forum.

But they wouldn't dare because they know the sentiment of supporters of the club on this forum over the last 4 years because this is where they get most if not all of their supporter information from and why they shut down the other avenues of club/supporter discussion.

Munn is weak and a liar, and Wazza is incompetent.

7 minutes ago, jw1739 said:

@Torn Asunder IMO "these criticisms" are more rhetorical questions than they are actual suggestions to those who attended the event that they should have done other than what they did.

Exactly, people are so sensitive. its just a group of mate having a discussion.

14 minutes ago, jw1739 said:

I think we all know that it's a lot easier to hide behind anonymity than it is to get up front and personal.

TBH if I knew I was going to an open forum such as that, then I would write down questions and rebuttals and read them. Preparation is everything. I am sure Wazza and Munn would have over-prepared for the occasion in lieu of the supporter discontent.

15 minutes ago, Torn Asunder said:

and he would also answer with considered professionalism. 

and continue to do nothing.

[Torn Asunder]

41 minutes ago, n i k o said:

To save us all the time why don't you really come out and say what you think about your standing amongst others who couldn't go or won't go. 

I am to assume that you are suggesting that my opinion doesn't hold as much weight. I'm won't go into why I can't go to events like this which you deem the barometer to someone's weight of their opinion. Nor will I go into things I've asked players and officials at events I've been to in the past. 

And now that you have given me your resume as well I can see why you have earned the right to be critical of things on a public forum and also feel that you can be the adjudicator on who has the right to be critical and who can't. 

 

My standing is that i  think that people who have strong opinions of the club and are happy to crticise should get along to an event and put the heat on management.

Your opinion is your own, and I never said it doesn't hold weight. 

My "resume" was provided to show that you can have these discussions with club officials, but I was also making the point that it will not be as easy as stating an opinion on this forum.  Im not sure where I suggested that I am being an adjudicator ...

25 minutes ago, playmaker said:

There is nothing stopping them from having a discussion here is there?

I mean, if they really want to reach out to the fans there a ways and no better way  than this forum.

But they wouldn't dare because they know the sentiment of supporters of the club on this forum over the last 4 years because this is where they get most if not all of their supporter information from and why they shut down the other avenues of club/supporter discussion.

Munn is weak and a liar, and Wazza is incompetent.

Exactly, people are so sensitive. its just a group of mate having a discussion.

TBH if I knew I was going to an open forum such as that, then I would write down questions and rebuttals and read them. Preparation is everything. I am sure Wazza and Munn would have over-prepared for the occasion in lieu of the supporter discontent.

and continue to do nothing.

Where did I say dont have the discussion on here?

I would love for you to go to an event and tell Munn he is weak and a liar, and tell Wazza that he is incompetent ... but I dont think you would

Edited February 15, 2019 by Torn Asunder

[moops]

I don't know about you, but I have been doing 12 hour days since 16 Jan, 6 days a week, unless they had it at 11pm and a bed waiting for afterwards, I sadly could not make it, maybe others are in similar positions.

[Mr MO]

Lovely discussion guys!

To summarise the event:

Those who went had a jolly good time with free food and drinks.

No real serious questions were asked as the keyboard warriors all stayed home, no real answers or explanations to the current issues were given either.

Warren and Munn are good people, they have good reasoning why they run the club as it is.

They club came out as a winner and unharmed in this meeting.

Here’s a suggestion for next time; how about the members of this forum select or vote for questions they want addressed. Secondly we find somebody who wants to represent us, let’s say the travel fans or talking city. 

Torn is right, it’s not easy to stand up and ask questions, but representing a group of fans outlining that these questions might not necessarily be your personal opinion will help in facing this issue.

[CityHeart]

putting questions to the two clowns is NOT the way. OF course they will have a list of excuses and answers, and probably sound fine too as they will believe they are capable.

They have no idea at all they are totally out of their depth. None.

The questions need to come publicly via the media, and to those these clowns answer to.  The real issue is apathy has set in - I dont think anyone gives a $h!t anymore.

[CityHeart]

Can anyone provide an argument, based on any metric you like - as to how the club could possibly keep this bloke post Monday (at the latest)?

 

[MHFC-FAN]

9 minutes ago, CityHeart said:

Can anyone provide an argument, based on any metric you like - as to how the club could possibly keep this bloke post Monday (at the latest)?

 

That's an easy one...

He's installed a "stronger culture"

and

something about a "return on investment"

 

Just get the fu%k outta here joyce!!

[Hanz]

Nelly has spoken

[playmaker]

7 hours ago, Torn Asunder said:

but I dont think you would

I wouldn't be betting on that if I were you, I have too much respect for people that actually are good at their job to be star struck by those 3 bozzos.

Calling people out with the truth has never been something I have a problem with, nor do I have a problem with people calling me out with the truth because if you are not good at something it's more honourable to accept it and move on to something you are good at than to deceive people.

But these guys just use their charisma to convince people they are competent instead of manning up and accepting the truth.

Total incompetent jokes that are destroying the club and it's supporters.

As I said, they should come on here and have an open discord with all the posters here, because it's obvious we are pretty accurate representation of the bulk of the member's sentiments and we give a shit about this club.

But they won't because they are weak.

Edited February 15, 2019 by playmaker

[NewConvert]

In my experience, you cannot question people like that at this level. Not because of due respect or fear to ask questions or the "what would you do" instead. Questioning means that you are prepared to learn and evolve, react to changing circumstances and getting the right responses most of the time. People like Joyce stopped learning and what is more likely is that they are the copy and paste type of learning. When I was at Uni, there was one guy who just collected examples, literally thousands of them, and then he would look at a problem search for an identical example and answer. People, specially lecturers thought he was smart, he wasn't. And he was ambitious. You can guess what happened when he got promoted to a job where understanding first principles mattered. Joyce is like that. People keep bringing up he was a great youth coach but he has been coaching senior teams for quite a while now and TBH I wonder whether someone actually did due dilligence and actually worked out whether he was a good youth coach.

[Dylan]

I reckon after last night he would be pretty close to losing the dressing room. No matter what public face Joyce, players or the club put on at events or interviews etc.

But in all seriousness there is no point in sacking him. If I were the club I’d just be focusing on the replacement and deciding which players they want to keep.

I notice that Milicic is only being announced as interim Matildas coach which is interesting

[moops]

He seemed happy with the performance in his post match conference, just a defending blip at the end caused us to loose that match apparently.

[CityHeart]

49 minutes ago, Dylan said:

I reckon after last night he would be pretty close to losing the dressing room...

But in all seriousness there is no point in sacking him.

LOL

Seriously, there is more culture in yogurt that with our mob. This whole thing needs to be picked apart and re-built from the ground up. We stand for nothing, standard are negotiable and nobody seems responsible for being the laughing stock of the league basically since inception. Give Munn a pay rise as well?

This Joyce fiasco is going to take a long time to unscramble. Every day this bloke is destroying us, the longer the fix will take. Every sport in the world sees it - when you have the wrong coach, he just has to go yesterday. I seriously am worried for next season already - he has played the creativity and drive out of basically everyone he has touched.

We not only MUST sack him now, we actually need the restructure of the football department to happen ASAP as well. Before any recruiting is done. Nobody at our club has a clue as to creating a successful a-league club.

See if the Suns want Munn back.

[fensaddler]

1 hour ago, Dylan said:

I reckon after last night he would be pretty close to losing the dressing room. No matter what public face Joyce, players or the club put on at events or interviews etc.

But in all seriousness there is no point in sacking him. If I were the club I’d just be focusing on the replacement and deciding which players they want to keep.

I notice that Milicic is only being announced as interim Matildas coach which is interesting

Jamo's interview after the match was revealing. Asked whether the spirit in the dressing room was still OK he said "it was until now". He then admitted they were in serious trouble and could easily fall out of the six. He knows that was shit, and we're in real trouble.