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Warren Joyce. As predicted by Serb Hair Dresser.. Goneski


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4 hours ago, Jovan said:

I think Garcia won it and a year later was gone. Sorensen I think won A League goalkeeper of the year. 

Let's not get caught up with details.

Suffice so say as soon as any player wins any sort of award as a club we can't handle success or winners so we must move them on.

Garcia won it 2012-13. David Williams 2013-14.

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On 04/03/2018 at 3:46 PM, playmaker said:

As I said towards the start of the season, Wazza is building for next season and beyond. This season was always going to be a lottery.

Oh boy lets make this same bullshit excuse again.

Its not like their isn't an example of a club turning it around and going from last to second in a season right? right?

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1 hour ago, kingofhearts said:

Oh boy lets make this same bullshit excuse again.

Its not like their isn't an example of a club turning it around and going from last to second in a season right? right?

There are, of course,

Not a common occurrence though, more common though is success in the second and third season.

If we put up with the JVS garbage for 7 seasons which is ingrained in the club, then we should let Wazza do what he needs to do and wait another season for success.

I am not defending him as I am deflated as well but we need to support him for now; this time next year is a different story.

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11 hours ago, playmaker said:

There are, of course,

Not a common occurrence though, more common though is success in the second and third season.

If we put up with the JVS garbage for 7 seasons which is ingrained in the club, then we should let Wazza do what he needs to do and wait another season for success.

I am not defending him as I am deflated as well but we need to support him for now; this time next year is a different story.

I'd support you on this except for what's happened over the last month or so. I don't see any evidence of a plan or structure or style that we're trying to work towards. When I add in the departures of players such as Brandan and Kilkenny, it just seems that we're making more ad hoc decisions than ever before.

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There are other coaches, Lowe and Aloisi for instance, who should have been replaced for the benefit of their own clubs. Sacking the coach is expensive. When there's a mutual agreement they make an earlier move like JVS. For anyone coming overseas this league is not a great reference.

On the revenue side, the difference between playing or not in ACL is probably minor. How many people will attend mid week game, how many more members, shirts sold in Asia? That's bleak reality where it's unlikely to spend a lot in the current system. CFG play along these boundaries so far. If there's a profit they would invest in better coach.  Still, do you really want Valkanis type coach. 

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34 minutes ago, Shahanga said:

All time favourite scene!

”show me where it says Benson & Hedges”

"I said there'd be a few surprises", and when asked about the age of Ron Benson, Bassett replied "I've always said, if you're old enough, you're good enough".

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Would we CFG want Dunga?

Quote

EXCLUSIVE: Two-time Brazil coach Dunga targets A-League job

 

Two-time Brazil coach Dunga has declared his desire to land an A-League job, announcing it would offer “a new and exciting challenge”.

By Dave Lewis 
9 MAR 2018 - 5:22 PM  UPDATED 1 HOUR AGO

The Selecao legend, who skippered Brazil to 1994 FIFA World Cup triumph, revealed that the “good reports” the competition has received from a number of Brazilian players has peaked his interest as he looks for the next chapter in his coaching career.“I am always looking to challenge myself as a coach and having spent many years with Brazil’s national teams I would like be in charge of a club on a day-to-day level,” Dunga told The World Game.“Good reports have come back to Brazil about the level, quality and professionalism of the A-League and the competition intrigues me.“Regardless of interest I've had in Europe, Australia would be a very interesting project, a new and exciting challenge.”Now 54, Dunga first coached Brazil from 2006 to 2010, winning the 2007 Copa America and 2009 FIFA Confederations Cup.He was dismissed after reaching the last eight at the World Cup in South Africa.

 

20160621001266687849-original.jpg?itok=pcVlnKwL&mtime=1471023608

New Brazil boss Tite the right man to clear up Dunga's mess

 

Dunga's second spell in charge of Brazil was an unmitigated failure, but new coach Tite is the right appointment to restore their pride.He also led Brazil’s Under-23s to bronze at the 2008 Olympic Games.His one club coaching gig was with Internacional, the club he began and finished his illustrious playing career with. That stint was cut short after 10 months in 2013.But that did nothing to blunt his appeal, with Brazil appointing him for a second spell in charge after their spectacular semi-final flop under Luíz Felipe Scolari on home soil at the 2014 World Cup.“You are always learning in football and Australia would be a new experience and I feel I could develop further there and also maybe bring some of my own knowledge,” he said.With both Sydney FC and Wellington Phoenix in the market for coaches for next season, Sydney-based agent Engin Durmus, of AFS Sports Management, said Dunga’s “calibre speaks for itself”.“He would offer great knowledge and expertise of the game at the very highest level,” said Durmus, who has the mandate to bring him to Australia.

 

dunga-cropped_1kz3eeyq87k9d1fphps3ywly0q.jpg?itok=j4Du9jnn&mtime=1471006983

Brazil sack Dunga after Copa America exit

 

Brazil have sacked head coach Dunga after their disappointing exit at the Copa America Centenario group stages.“His presence would generate great interest in the A-League, not just here but also in Brazil.”Dunga, who was dismissed by Brazil in 2016 after failing to get beyond the group stage at the Copa America, has his own memories of Australia - as a player.The former midfielder, who amassed 91 caps, played in the Selecao team which thrashed the Socceroos 6-0 in the final of the 1997 Confederations Cup, coming up against the likes of Harry Kewell, Mark Viduka, Mark Bosnich, Ned Zelic and Craig Foster that day.“It was a big win for us, but Australia did very well in that tournament and I remember that they had some excellent players,” he said.“But you have to understand, we had Ronaldo and Romario up front, and they both scored hat-tricks!“Australia has produced some great players and continues to grow and develop as a nation - that’s obvious after qualifying for four World Cups in a row.

 

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How on earth this clown got through the door is a complete mystery to me. His tactics are the complete opposite of the stated intentions of CFG of how they want their football to be played. I put the blame 100% on Marwood who is just a back stabbing arse licker.

We need to bring in an expressive coach, who wants to play on the front foot. 

 

 

 

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1 hour ago, silva10 said:

How on earth this clown got through the door is a complete mystery to me. His tactics are the complete opposite of the stated intentions of CFG of how they want their football to be played. I put the blame 100% on Marwood who is just a back stabbing arse licker.

We need to bring in an expressive coach, who wants to play on the front foot. 

 

 

 

Fat chance. Whatever happens Joyce will see out 2 seasons minimum. 

I totally agree that he doesn't fit the CFG brief and the longer he stays I start to feel that Melbourne City as club will move away from the CFG template. 

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1 hour ago, Jovan said:

Fat chance. Whatever happens Joyce will see out 2 seasons minimum. 

I totally agree that he doesn't fit the CFG brief and the longer he stays I start to feel that Melbourne City as club will move away from the CFG template. 

Maybe that's the plan. Give us our own unique identity. 

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1 hour ago, Jovan said:

Fat chance. Whatever happens Joyce will see out 2 seasons minimum. 

I totally agree that he doesn't fit the CFG brief and the longer he stays I start to feel that Melbourne City as club will move away from the CFG template. 

I don't mind if we move away from a fixed template. My question is more along the lines "What are we moving to?" A dour defensive template would be OK except that we're leaking goals and with no creativity up front we're not scoring any. Every week reinforces my view that Joyce is a disruptive presence in the club and has no idea of how to manage mature-aged footballers. Perhaps that's why he remained a youth coach for so long.

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10 minutes ago, Jovan said:

If the Kamau and Tongyik story is true this bloke has basically gutted half the squad. 

Now I'm no huge supporters of either player but both are still in a stage where they can develop. 

Something is definitely not right. 

Im worried for Bruno

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Maybe its wishful thinking, but I still think Wazza is on the right path.

Yes, he has got it wrong tactically a few time this year, and we've had some bad losses, but also some good wins, especially away.  Also, a lot of our losses can be put down to individual player mistakes, which are coach killers.  We are still travelling OK in terms of ladder position.

In terms of players departing, probably other than Brandan, most people on here have had issues with all the players that have left.

There have been some good signings, like Vidosic, and some not so good signings, like Dellbridge.  But to be fair to Wazza, even new signings are not safe if they perform poorly, like Dellbridge, who has already been sidelined.  The point is, if a player is not working for him, he reacts.

Yes, there has obviously been issues between him and certain players.  This is because he is a strong character and was chosen to impart culture change to rip out the soft underbelly of the club.  It worked OK at Man U for a while with Fergie ... I would suggest that with all the guys that have left, or who are on the outer, they just think its easier to leave rather than subscribe to Wazza's philosophy of working hard, and earning their spot, and then keeping it.  This is what life is like in the A-League for mediocre players - they know they can switch sides pretty easily, so why work hard? 

Also, and most notable, the two young guys promoted from youth who are now certain starters, Arzani and Atkinson, have been outstanding.  So its not like Wazza doesnt know the standard that a young player (or any player) should be.  I think the likes of Genreau will be one of the next ones to come through, and I think this will trend will continue.  And if City can hold onto these young guys and offer them pathways beyond City overseas, this will be our plan to success. 

Edited by Torn Asunder
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20 minutes ago, Torn Asunder said:

Maybe its wishful thinking, but I still think Wazza is on the right path.

Yes, he has got it wrong tactically a few time this year, and we've had some bad losses, but also some good wins, especially away.  Also, a lot of our losses can be put down to individual player mistakes, which are coach killers.  We are still travelling OK in terms of ladder position.

In terms of players departing, probably other than Brandan, most people on here have had issues with all the players that have left.

There have been some good signings, like Vidosic, and some not so good signings, like Dellbridge.  But to be fair to Wazza, even new signings are not safe if they perform poorly, like Dellbridge, who has already been sidelined.  The point is, if a player is not working for him, he reacts.

Yes, there has obviously been issues between him and certain players.  This is because he is a strong character and was chosen to impart culture change to rip out the soft underbelly of the club.  It worked OK at Man U for a while with Fergie ... I would suggest that with all the guys that have left, or who are on the outer, they just think its easier to leave rather than subscribe to Wazza's philosophy of working hard, and earning their spot, and then keeping it.  This is what life is like in the A-League for mediocre players - they know they can switch sides pretty easily, so why work hard? 

Also, and most notable, the two young guys promoted from youth who are now certain starters, Arzani and Atkinson, have been outstanding.  So its not like Wazza doesnt know the standard that a young player (or any player) should be.  I think the likes of Genreau will be one of the next ones to come through, and I think this will trend will continue.  And if City can hold onto these young guys and offer them pathways beyond City overseas, this will be our plan to success. 

All valid points and history will prove if its just wishful thinking or not.

I've been off and on the Wazza train several times and my recent departure is mainly due to the player exodus. They work with him daily and if 6 or 7 proffessional players feel the need to leave then to me that's a real worry. 

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36 minutes ago, Torn Asunder said:

Maybe its wishful thinking, but I still think Wazza is on the right path.

Yes, he has got it wrong tactically a few time this year, and we've had some bad losses, but also some good wins, especially away.  Also, a lot of our losses can be put down to individual player mistakes, which are coach killers.  We are still travelling OK in terms of ladder position.

In terms of players departing, probably other than Brandan, most people on here have had issues with all the players that have left.

There have been some good signings, like Vidosic, and some not so good signings, like Dellbridge.  But to be fair to Wazza, even new signings are not safe if they perform poorly, like Dellbridge, who has already been sidelined.  The point is, if a player is not working for him, he reacts.

Yes, there has obviously been issues between him and certain players.  This is because he is a strong character and was chosen to impart culture change to rip out the soft underbelly of the club.  It worked OK at Man U for a while with Fergie ... I would suggest that with all the guys that have left, or who are on the outer, they just think its easier to leave rather than subscribe to Wazza's philosophy of working hard, and earning their spot, and then keeping it.  This is what life is like in the A-League for mediocre players - they know they can switch sides pretty easily, so why work hard? 

Also, and most notable, the two young guys promoted from youth who are now certain starters, Arzani and Atkinson, have been outstanding.  So its not like Wazza doesnt know the standard that a young player (or any player) should be.  I think the likes of Genreau will be one of the next ones to come through, and I think this will trend will continue.  And if City can hold onto these young guys and offer them pathways beyond City overseas, this will be our plan to success. 

I think this is a good post in regards to the far less posted other side of the argument.

No doubt Wazza has had some issues and he needs to iron those out, but Rome wasn't built in a day i guess. We have 6-8 games for the season, let's make an assessment at the end (cos let's face it, no matter what he aint going to be sacked prior to the completion of the season) because lets be honest, his season will be assessed on how we end up, not the journey.

Edited by bt50
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6 minutes ago, bt50 said:

I think this is a good post in regards to the far less posted other side of the argument.

No doubt Wazza has had some issues and he needs to iron those out, but Rome wasn't built in a day i guess. We have 6-8 games for the season, let's make an assessment at the end (cos let's face it, no matter what he aint going to be sacked prior to the completion of the season) because lets be honest, his season will be assessed on how we end up, not the journey.

This is entirely true and come seasons end the results will speak for themselves. But as of today and so far this season I would undoubtedly say he has failed from what my expectations were in September. 

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2 minutes ago, Jovan said:

This is entirely true and come seasons end the results will speak for themselves. But as of today and so far this season I would undoubtedly say he has failed from what my expectations were in September. 

What were your expectations?

I assume most people would have seen ACL qualification as a bare pass, with one trophy as a mark of a good season? 
I do recall however that everyone was ridiculously gloomy on City going into the season, probably mostly due to that FFA Cup game v Sydney.

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8 minutes ago, bt50 said:

What were your expectations?

I assume most people would have seen ACL qualification as a bare pass, with one trophy as a mark of a good season? 
I do recall however that everyone was ridiculously gloomy on City going into the season, probably mostly due to that FFA Cup game v Sydney.

Also being 4 from 4 raised everyone's hopes. We built such a solid foundation and gave ourselves a pretty good head start. 

If we quarantine those results then our returns from round 5 onwards have been pretty poor - 6 wins and 3 draws from 18 matches. 

 

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16 minutes ago, bt50 said:

What were your expectations?

I assume most people would have seen ACL qualification as a bare pass, with one trophy as a mark of a good season? 
I do recall however that everyone was ridiculously gloomy on City going into the season, probably mostly due to that FFA Cup game v Sydney.

With the list we had and yes prior to the Cup game I genuinely thought top 2, and hopefully a grand final appearance. 

After the cup game my expectations plummeted and making finals was a hope.

Then after a strong start results wise my expectations rose again and pretty much lay with 2nd/3rd an acl playoff game and possible granny. And its basically stayed there until our pathetic loss recently.

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9 minutes ago, Harrison said:

Also being 4 from 4 raised everyone's hopes. We built such a solid foundation and gave ourselves a pretty good head start. 

If we quarantine those results then our returns from round 5 onwards have been pretty poor - 6 wins and 3 draws from 18 matches. 

 

Yeh when you hear stats bandied around like the other teams to go 4 from 4 its hard not to get a bit excited. As valid as your point is about our run since round 5, i also think cherry picking those periods is a bit unfair too. For example you could change it to since the NYD disaster in Western Sydney we have won 4 drawn 2 and lost 3, which looks infinitely better. After our win at Brisbane a month ago we looked the goods to on with it, only to crash and burn again.
Realistically i think you can probably only assess fairly over the entire season and where we sit.

Ultimately if we finish 3rd and make a GF i think most people will be happy with our progress, with an eye to going a step further next season. If we finish 4th and bomb out again we'll all be as frustrated as ever and pissed off with another wasted season.

I guess i'm trying to note that there is a distinct difference between a pass mark, what you hope/strive for and then your 'expectations'  of what will happen.

Edited by bt50
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30 minutes ago, bt50 said:

What were your expectations?

I assume most people would have seen ACL qualification as a bare pass, with one trophy as a mark of a good season? 
I do recall however that everyone was ridiculously gloomy on City going into the season, probably mostly due to that FFA Cup game v Sydney.

IIRC Joyce's selection as our new Head Coach was primarily based on the need to change the culture within men's group in our football department. Chairman Khaldoon Al Mubarak had given a pretty frank opinion on what happened at Melbourne City in 2016/17 in his annual video interview, and it wasn't a good report card.

We could have expected some issues to arise within the coaching and playing ranks on that basis. Some feathers would be ruffled. And that has been the case.

1. I would have thought that a "pass" from a City Football Group perspective would have been to equal our previous best league finish i.e fourth on the league table and to win our elimination final (with that to act as a springboard for improvement in 2018/19).

2. Contained within that overall performance I would have thought that CFG would expect us to show more grit and determination to fight out every match to the final second - for example that we should be able to come back from being one or two goals down - and that we would scratch and scrabble for every single point.

My own expectations were certainly 1. and 2. I also expected a more consistent Melbourne City in terms of results rather than the previous pattern of 4-5 matches without a win and then 4-5 matches without a defeat, fewer individual player brain fades, and fewer of those "lethargic" games where we just don't seem to be focussed. I guess these extra expectations really form part of no. 2.

We won't know whether we've "passed" until the end of the season. However, I'd say that the concerns of fans on here is that we haven't really met no. 2 above. We've certainly demonstrated that we can come back from being behind, but the other problems still seem to be there. Brain fades are a particular concern - to me they are evidence that a player's head just isn't in the right place.

Bruno's injury was a blow. Schenkeveld has largely done well. But overall I expected more from our visa players.

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41 minutes ago, bt50 said:

Yeh when you hear stats bandied around like the other teams to go 4 from 4 its hard not to get a bit excited. As valid as your point is about our run since round 5, i also think cherry picking those periods is a bit unfair too. For example you could change it to since the NYD disaster in Western Sydney we have won 4 drawn 2 and lost 3, which looks infinitely better. After our win at Brisbane a month ago we looked the goods to on with it, only to crash and burn again.
Realistically i think you can probably only assess fairly over the entire season and where we sit.

Ultimately if we finish 3rd and make a GF i think most people will be happy with our progress, with an eye to going a step further next season. If we finish 4th and bomb out again we'll all be as frustrated as ever and pissed off with another wasted season.

I guess i'm trying to note that there is a distinct difference between a pass mark, what you hope/strive for and then your 'expectations'  of what will happen.

Rome wasn't built in a day but Jets were rebuilt in one off-season, and with far fewer resources available to them.

As you have said, once again when we were in a position to go on with it and consolidate our position in the ladder, we have collapsed. There've been individual instances of improvement, we've come from behind in games rather than lose them, but the silly mistakes that has lead to those situations have continued unabated.

Wazza has had some bad luck, losing Bruno in pre-season and then losing Ross before Bruno is truly fit is bad luck with a bit of bad planning, however, Jets have lost their marquee early in the season too and haven't missed a beat.I can't see any evidence of consistency in our results, our resolve or our playing style.

Wazza will score an E from me.

 

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15 minutes ago, belaguttman said:

Rome wasn't built in a day but Jets were rebuilt in one off-season, and with far fewer resources available to them.

As you have said, once again when we were in a position to go on with it and consolidate our position in the ladder, we have collapsed. There've been individual instances of improvement, we've come from behind in games rather than lose them, but the silly mistakes that has lead to those situations have continued unabated.

Wazza has had some bad luck, losing Bruno in pre-season and then losing Ross before Bruno is truly fit is bad luck with a bit of bad planning, however, Jets have lost their marquee early in the season too and haven't missed a beat.I can't see any evidence of consistency in our results, our resolve or our playing style.

Wazza will score an E from me.

 

Thing is i agree with everything you say, other than your final judgement, which imo is very harsh.

If C is a bare pass then that what Wazza is ontrack for imo. The final 6-8 games decide where it ends up between B-D.

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19 minutes ago, belaguttman said:

Rome wasn't built in a day but Jets were rebuilt in one off-season, and with far fewer resources available to them.

As you have said, once again when we were in a position to go on with it and consolidate our position in the ladder, we have collapsed. There've been individual instances of improvement, we've come from behind in games rather than lose them, but the silly mistakes that has lead to those situations have continued unabated.

Wazza has had some bad luck, losing Bruno in pre-season and then losing Ross before Bruno is truly fit is bad luck with a bit of bad planning, however, Jets have lost their marquee early in the season too and haven't missed a beat.I can't see any evidence of consistency in our results, our resolve or our playing style.

Wazza will score an E from me.

Ledman Group is actually pretty well resourced. It took over Newcastle in June 2016 and had a disastrous 2016/17 season before the transformation in 2017/18.

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I think people are forgetting that our best player was out, we had a replacement that was our best player and he left, and our marquee was not up to speed. The last 5 games have been a shambles because Wazza has been in damage control and shuffling the list to make do, Bruno is not up to speed, players have been found not to be good enough and still on the pitch by force and our marquee can't get a chance to string games together in his natural position.

Also stupid individual errors have cost us 15 points even though we have been the better team in those matches.

That's not an excuse, it's a reality and really shows that the poor pre-season list, the culling of egocentric culture destroyers, injuries and late arrivals have meant we have had no consistency on the pitch. If Bruno and Bud were on the pitch from the start of the season I think we would be pushing Sydney for first place.

But on the upside with all that has happened we are sitting third, which is pretty good tbh.

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I agree that Joyce was seemingly brought in to do some laudable things, like:

 

1 Improve the culture at the club (more hardworking, more discipline, etc.)

2 More focus on the defence (ultimately conceding less goals by more organisation, more backbone and grittiness etc.)

3 Selecting the best players every week (seriously factoring in performance)

 

We can also say there is another point that's always true: 4 Playing City football (which from the start CFG has called attacking football, with lots of goals).

 

Now, while Joyce did 1 and 2 over the first four games, twenty-two games into the season in my view Joyce has not done 1 to 3 fully and/or properly, while he hasn't done 4 at all (the big home win against a weak Adelaide being an outlier that proves the point). I won't go into the details here where Joyce has fallen short this season of fully fulfilling these goals.

So, while I think we can all agree that these goals are good, if someone aims to accomplish these goals, but gets things wrong when attempting to accomplish these goals, then this person can't get a lot of credit. Actual performance counts, stated goals are not enough.

If Joyce could get back to the early season football where: A) we understood his goals, B.) Joyce played football in a way where he could accomplish his goals, and C) Joyce performed well (selected seemingly the best starting 11, played with a defensive focus, the culture at the club was seemingly good and getting results) then that would be a big improvement on the present where Joyce's goals are less clear, and I can't see what Joyce is trying to accomplish with the football the team's playing, or why he's starting and subbing on the players that he is.

Edited by Murfy1
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1 hour ago, playmaker said:

I think people are forgetting that our best player was out, we had a replacement that was our best player and he left, and our marquee was not up to speed. The last 5 games have been a shambles because Wazza has been in damage control and shuffling the list to make do, Bruno is not up to speed, players have been found not to be good enough and still on the pitch by force and our marquee can't get a chance to string games together in his natural position.

Also stupid individual errors have cost us 15 points even though we have been the better team in those matches.

That's not an excuse, it's a reality and really shows that the poor pre-season list, the culling of egocentric culture destroyers, injuries and late arrivals have meant we have had no consistency on the pitch. If Bruno and Bud were on the pitch from the start of the season I think we would be pushing Sydney for first place.

But on the upside with all that has happened we are sitting third, which is pretty good tbh.

I see we focus on the individual errors a fair bit in the last comments, which is true and costly of course.

One thing I would like to add that we seem already forgotten that in the games where we did get away with points - we earned points mostly due to Ross McCormack's goals, sometimes out of nothing with his freekicks, look at early rounds of Adelaide & Perth away. I'm almost about to stay that even with a fit Fornarolli from the start of the season we would be sitting lower on the ladder.

Now our cock ups at the back are here to stay for the season but we've lost the edge to score up front which is really concerning. 

Edited by Mr MO
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Interesting comments from Clint Bolton on SEN this afternoon:

"something stinks at City"

" players look unhappy"

"I don't expect anything from City this season"

"why have they moved on so many good first team players?"

"player dissatisfaction with the coach"

"you can see it in their body language and lack of intensity".

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6 minutes ago, belaguttman said:

Interesting comments from Clint Bolton on SEN this afternoon:

"something stinks at City"

" players look unhappy"

"I don't expect anything from City this season"

"why have they moved on so many good first team players?"

"player dissatisfaction with the coach"

"you can see it in their body language and lack of intensity".

Thats what they were saying when the Cahill saga was happening then we started winning and they all shut up.

Round and round we go with the Sydney centric media again.

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