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Warren Joyce. As predicted by Serb Hair Dresser.. Goneski


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3 minutes ago, bt50 said:

Managerial history[edit]

List of Melbourne City managers, with respective records, as of 19 January 2018. Only competitive matches are counted.

From To Name P W D L F A GD Win %
12 October 2009 5 April 2012 Netherlands John van 't Schip 58 17 21 20 67 79 −12 29.31
8 May 2012 28 December 2013 Australia John Aloisi 39 8 7 24 19 62 −43 20.51
30 December 2013 3 January 2017 Netherlands John van 't Schip 96 43 22 31 178 141 +37 44.79
3 January 2017 18 June 2017 Australia Michael Valkanis 12 5 1 6 22 21 +1 41.67
19 June 2017   England Warren Joyce 19 10 2 7 26 23 +3 52.63

 

FYI. Interesting that despite our 'incredibly negative' style, Wazza has well and truly passed JA already for goals scored, and also points despite 20 less games in charge.

inb4 "the goals meant more back in those days though!"

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2 hours ago, bt50 said:

Managerial history[edit]

List of Melbourne City managers, with respective records, as of 19 January 2018. Only competitive matches are counted.

From To Name P W D L F A GD Win %
12 October 2009 5 April 2012 Netherlands John van 't Schip 58 17 21 20 67 79 −12 29.31
8 May 2012 28 December 2013 Australia John Aloisi 39 8 7 24 19 62 −43 20.51
30 December 2013 3 January 2017 Netherlands John van 't Schip 96 43 22 31 178 141 +37 44.79
3 January 2017 18 June 2017 Australia Michael Valkanis 12 5 1 6 22 21 +1 41.67
19 June 2017   England Warren Joyce 19 10 2 7 26 23 +3 52.63

 

FYI. Interesting that despite our 'incredibly negative' style, Wazza has well and truly passed JA already for goals scored, and also points despite 20 less games in charge.

And then you have the amazing Graham Arnold. 199 A-League matches in total, for 108 wins,  52 draws and 39 losses.

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2 hours ago, bt50 said:

Managerial history[edit]

List of Melbourne City managers, with respective records, as of 19 January 2018. Only competitive matches are counted.

From To Name P W D L F A GD Win %
12 October 2009 5 April 2012 Netherlands John van 't Schip 58 17 21 20 67 79 −12 29.31
8 May 2012 28 December 2013 Australia John Aloisi 39 8 7 24 19 62 −43 20.51
30 December 2013 3 January 2017 Netherlands John van 't Schip 96 43 22 31 178 141 +37 44.79
3 January 2017 18 June 2017 Australia Michael Valkanis 12 5 1 6 22 21 +1 41.67
19 June 2017   England Warren Joyce 19 10 2 7 26 23 +3 52.63

 

Lol never realised just how poor the amount of goals scored under JA was. 

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14 minutes ago, Shahanga said:

I’d like those managerial records to show average points per game (rather than percentage wins). Not that it really matters, but it would help show just how bad Aloisi really was.

@Shahanga If you assume that they are all league matches (which is not the case once the FFA Cup was introduced, but it's a close approximation):

JvS (1): 72 points, 52 matches: 1.24
JA: 31 points, 39 matches: 0.79
JvS (2): 151 points, 96 matches: 1.57
MV: 16 points 12 matches: 1.33
WJ: 32 points, 19 matches: 1.68

Graham Arnold: 376 points, 199 matches: 1.89.

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1 minute ago, jw1739 said:

@Shahanga If you assume that they are all league matches (which is not the case once the FFA Cup was introduced, but it's a close approximation):

JvS (1): 72 points, 52 matches: 1.24
JA: 31 points, 39 matches: 0.79
JvS (2): 151 points, 96 matches: 1.57
MV: 16 points 12 matches: 1.33
WJ: 32 points, 19 matches: 1.68

Graham Arnold: 376 points, 199 matches: 1.89.

Surprising to see just how much better JvS was on his second stint.

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So Wazza's brand of tough love is starting to pay dividends.  Guys who would normally just expect to start have had to earn their way back into the team and the squad and then perform to profit from their opportunity .  Blokes who havent been able to subscribe to this philosphy of work based reward have been frozen out or moved along, regardless of reputation.

His defensive approach has added steel to our team which previously just did not exist.  Before Wazza, cruising at two goals up at home was never a guarantee of a win ... many times we'd look like world beaters in the first 30 minutes , only to be run over in the 2nd half.  You just don't get the same sense of dread that that will happen now, because we are much better at defending as a team (other than the odd bad individual mistake ... still at least one or two a game and this needs to be worked on).

Arzani is actually a really good example of Wazza's approach.  He is being talked up massively, but Wazza is doing his best to play it down, and constantly pushing the kid to work hard, concentrate on the whole game, and improve.  Under Wazza, if he can keep focused, he'd be ready for a Europe move in 2-3 seasons, and could very well be the next CFG Melbourne cash cow, after Mooy  

 

 

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3 minutes ago, Torn Asunder said:

So Wazza's brand of tough love is starting to pay dividends.  Guys who would normally just expect to start have had to earn their way back into the team and the squad and then perform to profit from their opportunity .  Blokes who havent been able to subscribe to this philosphy of work based reward have been frozen out or moved along, regardless of reputation.

His defensive approach has added steel to our team which previously just did not exist.  Before Wazza, cruising at two goals up at home was never a guarantee of a win ... many times we'd look like world beaters in the first 30 minutes , only to be run over in the 2nd half.  You just don't get the same sense of dread that that will happen now, because we are much better at defending as a team (other than the odd bad individual mistake ... still at least one or two a game and this needs to be worked on).

Arzani is actually a really good example of Wazza's approach.  He is being talked up massively, but Wazza is doing his best to play it down, and constantly pushing the kid to work hard, concentrate on the whole game, and improve.  Under Wazza, if he can keep focused, he'd be ready for a Europe move in 2-3 seasons, and could very well be the next CFG Melbourne cash cow, after Mooy  

 

 

Yep totally agree. I think by playing blokes in form and having to earn your spot in the side rather than a best XI on ability alone approach, he's created an environment where everyone is pushing each other and there is actual GENUINE competition for spots. Everyone thinks theyre a chance if they do it right, as opposed to last year where im sure someone like Arzani or Genreau didnt really think they'd get a proper look with JVS and Valkanis playing their favourites regardless of form. You only have to look at how happy Wazza was for Marcin in last nights presser as an example of that nothing seems to be personal, its a pure time, effort, and performance approach, and the person in the XI has to lose their spot before someone can gain theirs.

The jury is still out, and i dont think his season has been perfect as a manager, but i really like what im seeing so far and think his approach is the right one for the long term.

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1 hour ago, bt50 said:

Yep totally agree. I think by playing blokes in form and having to earn your spot in the side rather than a best XI on ability alone approach, he's created an environment where everyone is pushing each other and there is actual GENUINE competition for spots. Everyone thinks theyre a chance if they do it right, as opposed to last year where im sure someone like Arzani or Genreau didnt really think they'd get a proper look with JVS and Valkanis playing their favourites regardless of form. You only have to look at how happy Wazza was for Marcin in last nights presser as an example of that nothing seems to be personal, its a pure time, effort, and performance approach, and the person in the XI has to lose their spot before someone can gain theirs.

The jury is still out, and i dont think his season has been perfect as a manager, but i really like what im seeing so far and think his approach is the right one for the long term.

I'm more sceptical. And mainly because of the Kilkenny situation. 

On face value I agree entirely with the above statement but from the outside how in all true logic Kilkenny can't even get a chance. I just don't understand. 

And in Kilkennys case it seems like it is personal, as football ability wise he is a definitive starter.

But after that last 4 games getting 10 points from a possible 12 and 2 away my opinion is turning back in favour of Wazza. I reackon its now 50/50.

Next 3 games are huge.

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3 minutes ago, Jovan said:

I'm more sceptical. And mainly because of the Kilkenny situation. 

On face value I agree entirely with the above statement but from the outside how in all true logic Kilkenny can't even get a chance. I just don't understand. 

And in Kilkennys case it seems like it is personal, as football ability wise he is a definitive starter.

But after that last 4 games getting 10 points from a possible 12 and 2 away my opinion is turning back in favour of Wazza. I reackon its now 50/50.

Next 3 games are huge.

Yeh its all a mystery re Kilkenny. I suspect he's been blowing up behind the scenes or tried to undermine the gaffer, but i dont know the, or any details so i'll reserve judgement for either party until we know more.
From what ive seen of Joyce i just dont think he's hard to get along with and he's quite reasonable, but i suppose two good blokes can not see eye to eye and both have a reasonable case too.
FWIW i actually think the Brattan-Malik combo is developing into our best ever midfield pairing. Malik, who was struggled when paired with many other DM's, or under JVS played as a sole DM, has thrived next to Brattan, and vice-versa as far as Bratts consistency and defensive efforts go.

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16 minutes ago, bt50 said:

Yeh its all a mystery re Kilkenny. I suspect he's been blowing up behind the scenes or tried to undermine the gaffer, but i dont know the, or any details so i'll reserve judgement for either party until we know more.
From what ive seen of Joyce i just dont think he's hard to get along with and he's quite reasonable, but i suppose two good blokes can not see eye to eye and both have a reasonable case too.
FWIW i actually think the Brattan-Malik combo is developing into our best ever midfield pairing. Malik, who was struggled when paired with many other DM's, or under JVS played as a sole DM, has thrived next to Brattan, and vice-versa as far as Bratts consistency and defensive efforts go.

I'm with you with Malik Brattan, that entire Jakobsen experiment did my  head in but now these 2 are combining really well. And its all Wazzas doing and good on him.

There will come a time maybe sooner that we won't have the luxury to play with 2 defensive mids and 1 of these 2 will have to carry the role and I say that because  playing 2 defensive mids really limits your options. 

What I am liking though in our recent games is that Joyce is starting to alter our shape and has been changing things during games.

I've gone from all aboard the Wazza train then I changed lines and got on the Wazza out express but now I'm on the platform with no idea which one to jump on.

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3 minutes ago, thisphantomfortress said:

Maybe

;)

But in fairness I agree with your assessment. With CFG calling the shots, I think it is fair to assume they will be keeping Wazza around for that very reason. Yes we had a poor run, but we are highly competitive and have hit out strides whilst maintaining our spot on the ladder.

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Credit to Joyce, he has become a bit more flexible with his decisions (he dropped Jakobsen back to defence, has started only playing midfielders in midfield, and has mixed up the attack), and as Shahanga said, these calls have really lifted our performances a lot.

 

Also I will say that Joyce's "culture change" seems to be paying off more and more now. Many individual performances--from Budzinski, Malik, Brattan, etc--are very good now. Further, some young players like Atkinson and Arzani have been motivated well and have stepped up into the senior team. Joyce's shake up of the team has done some strange damage and there have been casualties (Cahill, Brandan, Carrusca, Kilkenny), but you can't argue with results: with the team solidly in 3rd most of the way through the season, the performances and wins are now looking good (2 multi-goal wins this months), and the team is seemingly trending well and improving.

 

Things were looking very different at the start of this month. So far, it's been a very good January for Joyce, and the month is not over yet.

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2 hours ago, Murfy1 said:

Credit to Joyce, he has become a bit more flexible with his decisions (he dropped Jakobsen back to defence, has started only playing midfielders in midfield, and has mixed up the attack), and as Shahanga said, these calls have really lifted our performances a lot.

 

Also I will say that Joyce's "culture change" seems to be paying off more and more now. Many individual performances--from Budzinski, Malik, Brattan, etc--are very good now. Further, some young players like Atkinson and Arzani have been motivated well and have stepped up into the senior team. Joyce's shake up of the team has done some strange damage and there have been casualties (Cahill, Brandan, Carrusca, Kilkenny), but you can't argue with results: with the team solidly in 3rd most of the way through the season, the performances and wins are now looking good (2 multi-goal wins this months), and the team is seemingly trending well and improving.

 

Things were looking very different at the start of this month. So far, it's been a very good January for Joyce, and the month is not over yet.

He did not drop Jaco per se. He just tried to build a midfield and tried all defensively capable players there to help Malik. He decided to go with 2 def. mids and trialed Jaco, Mauk, Brattan. I think even Budzik played several minutes there. :)

5 hours ago, thisphantomfortress said:

It is two very simple equations.

Win games = keep job.

Lose games = lose job.

I am happy that CFG do not follow this rule. Otherwise even Pep would be fired.

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On 1/4/2018 at 1:00 PM, n i k o said:

You're right, forum odds have gone up further. 

Im not totally on the Wazza out wagon yet, although I'm in very much in favour of the idea. But that game on Saturday was a catalyst for so many people outrage. This response has been so united and vocal I also think the game has damaged the CFG brand image big time to the point where our over lords in Manchester are feeling it too. 

How about forum odds now, Niko? :tooth:

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1 minute ago, n i k o said:

Odds still in favour of the forum. We've won a couple games, not a couple trophies you nitwitted imbecile

Oh, temper, temper? :) No need to be angry. Did not want to offend you TBH. I was talking about changed perception here on forum and reliability of those "odds".

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2 minutes ago, MXG said:

Oh, temper, temper? :) No need to be angry. Did not want to offend you TBH. I was talking about changed perception here on forum and reliability of those "odds".

No temper my friend, just my perception of you. Winning games does cure things, however as I said we haven't won anything yet under Waz. Come back to me once were holding the trophy at the end of the season and I'll be happy to admit the reliability of those odds.

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45 minutes ago, n i k o said:

No temper my friend, just my perception of you. Winning games does cure things, however as I said we haven't won anything yet under Waz. Come back to me once were holding the trophy at the end of the season and I'll be happy to admit the reliability of those odds.

Ok, now you are acting stupid pretending you do not comprehend . Forum is not against Wazza now judging on this thread.

But it's interesting you've mentioned trophy 2 times. So, you want Wazza out now or when he will not deliver a trophy at the end of this(?) season?

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11 minutes ago, MXG said:

Ok, now you are acting stupid pretending you do not comprehend . Forum is not against Wazza now judging on this thread.

But it's interesting you've mentioned trophy 2 times. So, you want Wazza out now or when he will not deliver a trophy at the end of this(?) season?

:facepalm:

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