Warren Joyce. As predicted by Serb Hair Dresser.. Goneski

[Thrillhouse]

still having problems with line ups and subs. Jako in mid, haz anywhere, mauk starting

should of brought bruno on at ht 

[Imtellingyou]

Irony is that Mr Defensive Approach entered records book with the biggest home defeat.  

[Jovan]

Not so much a discussion on Wazza per say but more so on the season so far and as I couldn't find a thread and didn't want to start a new one this one will do.

We've just gone through a stretch of games from our last match against Sydney were we lost to 3:1 then the derby loss and the worst of all the new years day debacle.  Since then we had s a gradual improvement and seen the emergence of Arzani and Vidosic as really carrying the team. But after the Sydney smashing we have time now to reset and look at our run into the finals.

We've got Perth away, Derby aami, Adelaide away, Wanderers home, Jets away, Mariners home and Nix away.

I reackon we should get 7 points or better home and probably 6 points away. That would most likely lock in 3rd and possibly a home derby elimination final.

I think our chances of 2nd are now gone and barring any Jets collapse we need to keep an eye over our shoulder. 

[Jovan]

.

Edited February 12, 2018 by Jovan
Fat fingers

[haz]

5 hours ago, Jovan said:

Not so much a discussion on Wazza per say but more so on the season so far and as I couldn't find a thread and didn't want to start a new one this one will do.

We've just gone through a stretch of games from our last match against Sydney were we lost to 3:1 then the derby loss and the worst of all the new years day debacle.  Since then we had s a gradual improvement and seen the emergence of Arzani and Vidosic as really carrying the team. But after the Sydney smashing we have time now to reset and look at our run into the finals.

We've got Perth away, Derby aami, Adelaide away, Wanderers home, Jets away, Mariners home and Nix away.

I reackon we should get 7 points or better home and probably 6 points away. That would most likely lock in 3rd and possibly a home derby elimination final.

I think our chances of 2nd are now gone and barring any Jets collapse we need to keep an eye over our shoulder. 

Yep agree, someone posted what the average points were to finish 3rd and it was easily achiveable

I cant see Newcastle collasping either, they will only get stronger with players returning.

[moops]

Joyce showed me no 'respect' in City exit, reveals Kilkenny

https://theworldgame.sbs.com.au/article/2018/02/22/joyce-showed-me-no-respect-city-exit-reveals-kilkenny

 

Perth Glory midfielder Neil Kilkenny has bemoaned a lack of "respect" from coach Warren Joyce in his departure from Melbourne City and criticised his "old-school" style of play.

Kilkenny was City's player of the year last season, as voted by teammates and supporters - but he played just 70 minutes of football after Joyce's arrival and was released last month.

To this day, he says it was never explained to him why he was so suddenly frozen out of the first-team picture.

"He never spoke to me about it. It's one of them things," a fiery Kilkenny told reporters ahead of his first showdown with his former club on Saturday at NIB Stadium.

"I don't think it was performance-based because I didn't really play. It's obviously personal.

"What can I do? I can only go and play as well as I can again and, hopefully, I can do that."

Kilkenny said he was able to get on "swimmingly" with every single person at City - from his fellow players and the kit man to the CEO and football director - except for Joyce.

"As a team, they were brilliant, supportive - they even said to me they didn't understand what was going on; why I wasn't playing; why I wasn't given the opportunity," he said.

"All the backroom staff are fantastic. All the people above the manager were brilliant as well to me.

"Unfortunately, a bit of respect would have been nice from the man at the top."

In a further shot at Joyce, Kilkenny said he had moved Melbourne City away from the attacking, possession-based style of play the City Football Group wanted all of their clubs to abide by.

Joyce has taken a heavily defensive approach, which has yielded results as City are on course for their best finish to an A-League season.

Kilkenny said it would only be vindicated if they won silverware.

"Obviously, we had the City way last year and the way the whole group wanted to play ... this manager's come in and gone back to a bit of the old-school English way," he said.

"Whether he can win something, time will tell. People can make their own mind up to see if he's a success.

"If he doesn't win a trophy, that says a lot."

Perth sit eighth on the ladder, seven points outside the finals positions with seven matches to go.

[jw1739]

Only a matter of time before someone broke the silence on the changes at City this season. And we've seven matches to see whether Joyce has achieved anything in terms of results. IMO if we can hold third than Joyce will be deemed an improvement on what went before.

[haz]

16 minutes ago, jw1739 said:

Only a matter of time before someone broke the silence on the changes at City this season. And we've seven matches to see whether Joyce has achieved anything in terms of results. IMO if we can hold third than Joyce will be deemed an improvement on what went before.

With Sydney last year, I expected 2nd to be the best finish this season. After the Jets have come out of nowhere, I can settle for 3rd (andmake the GF), but 2nd should have still been the aim

[Jovan]

To not finish 2nd is IMO a fail. But having said that win 3 finals games and it would be for me an amazing achievement and a resounding pass.

But at this point in time I see us finishing 3rd and making the GF but losing badly to Sydney. 

Does that rate as a successful season?  Undecided. We would have definitely improved and would also have been our most successful season and of course put us in an ACL playoff spot, but I guess it still would be for me a season lost.

I'm still not decided on Wazza and very skeptical about whether he is the coach to bring ultimate success. 

[Dylan]

Munn had some pretty piss poor answers in regards to why Joyce was picked etc on the pod IMO

[playmaker]

12 hours ago, moops said:

Joyce showed me no 'respect' in City exit, reveals Kilkenny

https://theworldgame.sbs.com.au/article/2018/02/22/joyce-showed-me-no-respect-city-exit-reveals-kilkenny

This article shows why he is gone and backs up all my previous opinions on the type of person he is. 

Well done Wazza to get rid of this crap out of the club.

Shut the fk up Killa. Tbh I hope Bozanic lays this chump out.

 

 

Edited February 22, 2018 by playmaker

[jw1739]

6 minutes ago, Dylan said:

Munn had some pretty piss poor answers in regards to why Joyce was picked etc on the pod IMO

@DylanIn summary, what were they?

Edited February 22, 2018 by jw1739

[Dylan]

31 minutes ago, jw1739 said:

@DylanIn summary, what were they?

Well I was about to edit my post and say he played a straight bat which is of course what he has to do as the CEO so not having a go at him or anything.

But it revolved around saying we still want to play beautiful football and warren does as well but wanted to fix the defense first etc etc. The same stuff we have heard before etc etc. Reason I posted that above in the first place was when Munn was saying it, I got a sense that he was doing the straight bat deflection and not believing what he was saying. However, I could have completely misinterpreted it since I only had audio and someone who was in the room would be best place to clarify it

Edited February 22, 2018 by Dylan

[Embee]

8 minutes ago, Dylan said:

Well I was about to edit my post and say he played a straight bat which is of course what he has to do as the CEO so not having a go at him or anything.

But it revolved around saying we still want to play beautiful football and warren does as well but wanted to fix the defense first etc etc. The same stuff we have heard before etc etc. Reason I posted that above in the first place was when Munn was saying it, I got a sense that he was doing the straight bat deflection and not believing what he was saying. However, I could have completely misinterpreted it since I only had audio and someone who was in the room would be best place to clarify it

From memory (happy to be proven wrong) it wasn't really a question we asked of him and more of a conversation around the values of the club and the style that we've tried to play over our history. He actually acknowledged we'd been a bit 'safe' and defensive, especially early on,when talking about the fan surveys.

He's definitely not going to bury the coach on air but I find you normally get a pretty candid answer when you ask Scott something, unless he doesn't want to give you one and in that case he normally just doesn't answer it rather than giving you a fluffy response, which I prefer tbh

1 hour ago, Jovan said:

To not finish 2nd is IMO a fail. But having said that win 3 finals games and it would be for me an amazing achievement and a resounding pass.

But at this point in time I see us finishing 3rd and making the GF but losing badly to Sydney. 

Does that rate as a successful season?  Undecided. We would have definitely improved and would also have been our most successful season and of course put us in an ACL playoff spot, but I guess it still would be for me a season lost.

I'm still not decided on Wazza and very skeptical about whether he is the coach to bring ultimate success. 

Before the season i think you could view lower than 2nd as a fail, but Newcastle have been a very formidable team and in any other A-League campaign would probably be a solid chance for silverware, it's just unfortunate that you've also got the greatest men's club team in the history of the league sitting on top atm.

For me, Asia should have been the non-negotiable goal, and a piece of silverware the target. Now clearly we're unlikely to get silverware but I think that given the way Sydney and Newcastle have played this season it's slightly more understandable, not to mention that there's been a period of transition at the club that I think was acknowledged as being required when Warren was appointed. To be able to make those changes on the fly and still get us into Asia would be acceptable in my opinion.

[Jovan]

13 minutes ago, Embee said:

For me, Asia should have been the non-negotiable goal, and a piece of silverware the target. Now clearly we're unlikely to get silverware but I think that given the way Sydney and Newcastle have played this season it's slightly more understandable, not to mention that there's been a period of transition at the club that I think was acknowledged as being required when Warren was appointed. To be able to make those changes on the fly and still get us into Asia would be acceptable in my opinion.

I agree with you to a point. And that point being if we do indeed finish 3rd, and get that ACL playoff game and we lose it, then that's unacceptable to me. I know one off games can go either way but judging a season can really on be done on achievement.  And no silverware and no ACL for me must be marked as a failure. Yes Sydney have been remarkable and probably we won't see a team dominate again so much for a while. And Newcastle have been a revelation but at the end of the day it must come down to what we have achieved. 

Without silverware  (which is still possible but unlikely) ACL qualification must be a bare minimum. 

Interesting next 9 maybe 10 games to come.

[Embee]

2 minutes ago, Jovan said:

I agree with you to a point. And that point being if we do indeed finish 3rd, and get that ACL playoff game and we lose it, then that's unacceptable to me. I know one off games can go either way but judging a season can really on be done on achievement.  And no silverware and no ACL for me must be marked as a failure. Yes Sydney have been remarkable and probably we won't see a team dominate again so much for a while. And Newcastle have been a revelation but at the end of the day it must come down to what we have achieved. 

Without silverware  (which is still possible but unlikely) ACL qualification must be a bare minimum. 

Interesting next 9 maybe 10 games to come.

I don't disagree, losing the ACL playoff would indeed be unacceptable, but that expectation falls into next season really.

I think the expectations next season will be much higher and rightly so. Warren will have had this season to mould the club and playing group in his image and will then have another off-season to recruit and drill the players.

[Jovan]

6 minutes ago, Embee said:

I don't disagree, losing the ACL playoff would indeed be unacceptable, but that expectation falls into next season really.

I think the expectations next season will be much higher and rightly so. Warren will have had this season to mould the club and playing group in his image and will then have another off-season to recruit and drill the players.

I guess your right about next season. 

I'm still not convinced Wazza is capable of the ultimate success but time will prove or disprove my opinion. 

[belaguttman]

3 hours ago, Dylan said:

Well I was about to edit my post and say he played a straight bat which is of course what he has to do as the CEO so not having a go at him or anything.

But it revolved around saying we still want to play beautiful football and warren does as well but wanted to fix the defense first etc etc. The same stuff we have heard before etc etc. Reason I posted that above in the first place was when Munn was saying it, I got a sense that he was doing the straight bat deflection and not believing what he was saying. However, I could have completely misinterpreted it since I only had audio and someone who was in the room would be best place to clarify it

The problem I have with this way of thinking is that it separates 'good defence' from 'beautiful football'. Unless you are going to specifically set up as a broken team, then when you try to become more attacking, you just compromise the solid defence. This is exactly what has happened to us.

 

The other problem with not qualifying for ACL is that it's a drawcard for visa players.Missing out on those visa players will slow our development

Edited February 23, 2018 by belaguttman

[playmaker]

So what is beautiful football again?

It is predefined as what?

I thought the objective is to win games.

Adapting to a game is what's beautiful, either through tactics, structure, battles in different areas on the pitch to nullify the opposition's strengths and exploit their weeknesses.

If any club relies only on a 'pleasing to the eye' style of football, then they are in for a whole lot of hurt. 

Beautiful football is relative, for example it could be argued that Wigan played a beautiful game against Man City even though it wasn't pleasing to the eye for the average observer. I think the average Wigan fan would think it would have been one of the most beautiful games they have seen.

The style is just a result of the tactics that are needed to get the 3 points. If you don't get the 3 points then what ever happened between kick off and the final whistle has failed irrespective of the style of play.

Beautiful football is winning.

 

 

[kingofhearts]

He's hopeless

[jw1739]

I'm almost glad that I lost my NBN internet and VOIP connection (overheight vehicle ripped the cable down) on Friday morning until now, late Monday afternoon, because I'm far less despondent than I would have been if I had followed the minute-by-minute debacle of the Perth match.

I don't think we're guaranteed finishing third at all based on the six matches we have to go. Victory, Adelaide and Wanderers are all quite capable of beating us and overtaking us on the ladder.

Someone asked in another thread "where are we at as a club?" Well, I'm not sure that we're much different as a club from what we have been all along. It's easy to dissect any particular match and put the result down to a stupid mistake here and a stupid mistake there but IMO we have to look at results in a more holistic way. We need to ask questions such as: Why are we still making these stupid mistakes? Why are we still conceding goals and points in the dying stages of matches? Why are our managers still making mistakes with team selection and substitutions? Why have we taken only 4 points from Perth in two seasons?

My support for Joyce is weakening as the season goes on. If we don't finish third then IMO it will have been a season of upheaval for no improvement over the past. IMO seven seasons of underachievement have made us too accommodating of CFG and our local administration. If Newcastle can make such a spectacular transformation (from last to second) in one season then why the hell are we still pretty much the same as we've always been?

[haz]

28 minutes ago, jw1739 said:

I'm almost glad that I lost my NBN internet and VOIP connection (overheight vehicle ripped the cable down) on Friday morning until now, late Monday afternoon, because I'm far less despondent than I would have been if I had followed the minute-by-minute debacle of the Perth match.

I don't think we're guaranteed finishing third at all based on the six matches we have to go. Victory, Adelaide and Wanderers are all quite capable of beating us and overtaking us on the ladder.

Someone asked in another thread "where are we at as a club?" Well, I'm not sure that we're much different as a club from what we have been all along. It's easy to dissect any particular match and put the result down to a stupid mistake here and a stupid mistake there but IMO we have to look at results in a more holistic way. We need to ask questions such as: Why are we still making these stupid mistakes? Why are we still conceding goals and points in the dying stages of matches? Why are our managers still making mistakes with team selection and substitutions? Why have we taken only 4 points from Perth in two seasons?

My support for Joyce is weakening as the season goes on. If we don't finish third then IMO it will have been a season of upheaval for no improvement over the past. IMO seven seasons of underachievement have made us too accommodating of CFG and our local administration. If Newcastle can make such a spectacular transformation (from last to second) in one season then why the hell are we still pretty much the same as we've always been?

WE NEED ERNIE

[kingofhearts]

1 hour ago, jw1739 said:

I'm almost glad that I lost my NBN internet and VOIP connection (overheight vehicle ripped the cable down) on Friday morning until now, late Monday afternoon, because I'm far less despondent than I would have been if I had followed the minute-by-minute debacle of the Perth match.

I don't think we're guaranteed finishing third at all based on the six matches we have to go. Victory, Adelaide and Wanderers are all quite capable of beating us and overtaking us on the ladder.

Someone asked in another thread "where are we at as a club?" Well, I'm not sure that we're much different as a club from what we have been all along. It's easy to dissect any particular match and put the result down to a stupid mistake here and a stupid mistake there but IMO we have to look at results in a more holistic way. We need to ask questions such as: Why are we still making these stupid mistakes? Why are we still conceding goals and points in the dying stages of matches? Why are our managers still making mistakes with team selection and substitutions? Why have we taken only 4 points from Perth in two seasons?

My support for Joyce is weakening as the season goes on. If we don't finish third then IMO it will have been a season of upheaval for no improvement over the past. IMO seven seasons of underachievement have made us too accommodating of CFG and our local administration. If Newcastle can make such a spectacular transformation (from last to second) in one season then why the hell are we still pretty much the same as we've always been?

Great post. Agree with it all.

We're all so use to mediocrity around here that just scraping into the finals would be seen as a success to this club.

[n i k o]

1 hour ago, haz said:

WE NEED OKON

 

[haz]

48 minutes ago, n i k o said:

WE NEED OKON

Nah mate, thats a criminal suggestion

[Dylan]

I reckon even if we dont finish 3rd he wont be sacked, which is disheartening. We seem to be starting our usual January capitulation a bit later this year. Highly doubt we will win the derby, which will be absolutely terrible since the Visitors really have been garbage this season. 

[Embee]

3 hours ago, Dylan said:

I reckon even if we dont finish 3rd he wont be sacked, which is disheartening. We seem to be starting our usual January capitulation a bit later this year. Highly doubt we will win the derby, which will be absolutely terrible since the Visitors really have been garbage this season. 

Barring missing the finals I don't think they would have sacked any new manager this season. However, if we finish any lower than 3rd I think he enters next season on thin ice and would be removed if we didn't hit the ground running.

[haz]

8 hours ago, Embee said:

Barring missing the finals I don't think they would have sacked any new manager this season. However, if we finish any lower than 3rd I think he enters next season on thin ice and would be removed if we didn't hit the ground running.

I cant see a CFG manager not being fired before an end of season break.

[Thrillhouse]

Season is completely falling apart, wazza has to take a lot of blame for style, player relationship fallouts (killa,Fernando, little bit for Cahill) and match day management.

Cfg has to take some too, our squad is a mess, delbridge is a donkey. We have a visa spot free and we're dying for someone creative. 

[haz]

Time for a thread name change me thinks

Edited March 2, 2018 by haz

[Embee]

"Warren's return ticket to Manchester Kickstarter"

Edited March 2, 2018 by Embee

[rass]

Real average performance from him tonight I thought.

[Shahanga]

Tonight was the second coming of John Aloisi.

i can understand Wazza not wanting to use his subs when we were behind, I mean it’s s pre season game isn’t it, so he wanted the boys to get fatigued & the result doesn’t really matter 

[belaguttman]

21 minutes ago, Embee said:

"Warren' return ticket to Manchester Kickstarter"

I'm in, where can I sign up?

[haz]

22 minutes ago, Embee said:

"Warren' return ticket to Manchester Kickstarter"

Just make him win that Etihad comp

[Shahanga]

Just now, belaguttman said:

I'm in, where can I sign up?

OATH

[Embee]

1 minute ago, belaguttman said:

I'm in, where can I sign up?

I'm accepting cash donations, come to the back of back 18 for the next home game

[playmaker]

I all fairness he has had no striker and his anchorman has been injured.

Big loses, but I can see the frustration 

[jw1739]

5 minutes ago, playmaker said:

I all fairness he has had no striker and his anchorman has been injured.

Big loses, but I can see the frustration 

Joyce appears to have brought nothing but upheaval and disruption to the club. Yes he might be down a couple of players, but don't forget we've seen Caceres, Cahill, Brandan, Kilkenny, Carrusca, Roberts and Crowley all depart the club. we can't blame Joyce for Cahill's departure, but IMO we can the rest. On the showing tonight even his celebrated focus on training and fitness appears to have failed, because we were lethargic right from the kick-off and out-run by Victory all night.

Yes, there's still time to finish third and get something out of the season, but at this stage I can't see that Joyce is the manager we want for the future.

[playmaker]

6 minutes ago, jw1739 said:

Joyce appears to have brought nothing but upheaval and disruption to the club. Yes he might be down a couple of players, but don't forget we've seen Caceres, Cahill, Brandan, Kilkenny, Carrusca, Roberts and Crowley all depart the club. we can't blame Joyce for Cahill's departure, but IMO we can the rest. On the showing tonight even his celebrated focus on training and fitness appears to have failed, because we were lethargic right from the kick-off and out-run by Victory all night.

Yes, there's still time to finish third and get something out of the season, but at this stage I can't see that Joyce is the manager we want for the future.

Fair call @jw1739 I just look at it from a functionality view point. The way he wants to play has been undermined by having no defensive pivot and no striker as we have really struggled since Ross left. Then he has been forced to play Bud and others out of position which leaves holes elsewhere on the pitch.

I am not saying that Wazza is blameless by any means but when you start having a lack of team consistency and players out of position, the flow of the team will suffer both in attack and defence.

TBH I think he should just get rid of our wingers and play a central overload because atm the wide play just doesn't work and Mauk, Vidosic and Bud  playing central is better than Fitzy, Kamau and Arzani playing wide and probably better suited for Bruno as well.