Warren Joyce. As predicted by Serb Hair Dresser.. Goneski

[belaguttman]

54 minutes ago, JMSTEP123 said:

Holistically yes I agree. On the whole he has a massive job that I am not trivializing.

However, I dont think he is the man that is going to be successful in overturning the above problems. I think his culture of success has heavily undermined so many players confidence, and made it near impossible to build something close to our potential. He is not transparent, and his excuses seem pathetic on the whole. 

I dont think he is the manager that will find us success on and off the park.

Asa coach you succeed by motivating individuals and by nurturing a cohesive group mind that unites around the working task. I can't see any evidence of the latter and can only see a positive change in Brattan as an individual

Edited January 3, 2018 by belaguttman

[belaguttman]

34 minutes ago, jw1739 said:

MELBOURNE CITY
Ladder position: fourth
Four wins out of four to start the season had City fans believing this was their year.
But it’s been a roller-coaster last couple of months for Warren Joyce’s troops since.
Just two wins from their last nine games has seen City lose touch with league-leaders Sydney FC and all of a sudden looking behind them at the chasing pack.
With attacking stars Tim Cahill and Fernando Brandan leaving the club, and Ross McCormack’s future unclear, there are questions whether City have the firepower to challenge for honours later in the campaign.
The impending return of Bruno Fornaroli and the acquisition of Dario Vidosic is a start but what kind of business they can do during the January transfer window could be key.
While their form slump is a concern, they are still in  handy spot in fourth position.
But until they find a bit more consistency and cohesion in their game, the chances of going from pretenders to contenders appear remote.
Report card mark: B-
https://www.a-league.com.au/news/hyundai-a-league-mid-season-report-card-part-1

Overly optimistic I think because if you look at our results Wazza hasn't provided a long-term fix for our defensive frailty and we have a poor attack. There's discord in the playing group and no apparent plan. If you look at CFG's stated goals for playing style then we've moved away from that back to the Aloisi era style of long ball football.

[moops]

http://www.theroar.com.au/2018/01/03/is-melbourne-city-heeding-the-lessons-of-guardiola-and-postecoglou/

Manchester City have dominated the Premier League this season, but their influence extends globally, all the way to Melbourne.

The Sheikh Mansour takeover in September 2008 heralded a new era for the English club, resulting in Premier League titles in 2012 and 2014.

During this time, the City Football Group began plotting a series of moves that have been described as the ‘Disneyfication of football’ – a cooperation of teams under the same banner that identifies and develops talent, buys and sells players and creates marketing opportunities across the world. The City Football Group, with its roots in Manchester, now extends to America, Uruguay, Japan, and of course Australia.

The Melbourne Heart takeover was a groundbreaking moment for Australian football. The club was renamed and recoloured in the City image and has benefitted from a string of investments, including a new training base, backroom staff and cutting-edge recruitment methods.

This was to bring best practice to a club that could then feed the ‘first team’ in Manchester or at the least generate funds to support the overall mission of the City Group.

The signing of Aaron Mooy and his subsequent sale to Manchester, from where he was loaned and eventually sold to Huddersfield town for £10 million ($A17 million), sums up Melbourne’s role in the City empire.

From an Australian perspective what has been interesting about the success of Manchester City under Pep Guardiola in the Premier League this season (they currently have a 12 point lead) is the style of football they have been playing.

True to Guardiola’s vision, they dominate games. They currently have a 12-point lead on the table and the highest possession count in the league at 66 per cent. They have reached the final third more often than any other team in Europe’s top five leagues this season, and City has one of the highest shots taken-lowest shots faced totals ever at 17-5.

It is beautiful to watch and devastatingly effective.

It is the vision of the City Football Group that all teams in their network, from the seniors of Manchester to the under-14s of Melbourne City, play a similar style of football. This has the dual effect of creating a network where players can switch teams effortlessly and also helping City develop that global brand that will appeal to marketers and fans alike. Given Guardiola’s previous coaching resume and philosophy it is no wonder the group was so keen for him to become the figurehead of their flagship club.

If the playing style is to become ubiquitous, however, then the City Group needs like-minded coaches at their sister clubs. That makes the recent appointment of Ange Postecoglou as Yokohama F. Marinos coach entirely logical given his blatant preference for a style of play similar to Guardiola’s.

While they have differences, the broad brushstrokes of Guardiola and Postecoglou are similar. They like to dominate games through possession, emphasise constant attacking and promote aggressive, proactive defending. Another obvious similarity is their default system – a 4-3-3 – as well as a penchant for changing formations on the fly, even if it is a little obscure. Guardiola has used systems far more extreme than Postecoglou’s 3-2-4-1.

Where the two coaches are most similar, however, might be in their stubbornness, persistence and unwavering belief in their style of play. Both coaches refuse to compromise their principles regardless of results or context.

Therefore, given the scale of their scouting network and the trajectory of Postecoglou’s Socceroos, it is no surprise the City Group saw him as someone who can bring their global playing style to life in Japan. In fact Postecoglou has already spent time in Manchester observing Guardiola. Knowing the opportunities and potential stepping stones ahead of him as a head coach in the City Football Group, Postecoglou’s departure from the national team is not surprising.

In this context the current situation in Melbourne seems out of character for the City Football Group. While Warren Joyce has done an interesting job changing the internal culture, the style of play is at odds with the philosophy being espoused by Guardiola and the group.

Joyce has used a 4-4-2 for most of the season, preferring the likes of Nick Fitzgerald, Stefan Mauk and Bruce Kamau because of their willingness to track back and make the side compact over bigger names like Tim Cahill and marquee Marcin Budziński.

Melbourne City play defensively – they sit back in a solid, organised block and are happy to play longer balls from the back in attack to avoid turnovers in deep positions. Furthermore, the constant selections of defensive-minded players, like Michael Jakobsen and Osama Malik, as central midfielders demonstrates Joyce’s safety-first approach.

A defensive setup is entirely justifiable, but in the context of Melbourne City as a fish in the City Football Group pond, it surely is not part of the club’s long-term plan.

It’s possible Joyce wants to get the culture right and is therefore focusing instead on creating an environment that rewards defensive discipline and hard work, but Guardiola and Postecoglou’s teams work hard and are disciplined in a different way and still play the kind of football the City Football Group wants their teams to be known for.

Without being privy to internal machinations it is not possible to pass proper judgement on the direction of Melbourne City and Warren Joyce. At face value, however, given the success of Manchester City and the appointment of Postecoglou, it is hard to see how City can continue on their current path.

[jw1739]

One thing's for sure. These articles, or a summary of same, will be finding their way to CFG HQ.

It's probably a pity that our local press is not more hard-hitting where City is concerned. If it were, and we were seeing a lot more questions being asked, then I'm pretty sure that we would be seeing a response from Manchester.

As it is, we have to wait for this transfer window to elapse before we will know whether there is any intent to change what's happening locally. It's only Day 1 of that window.

[CityHeart]

are these articles going to find their way to HQ, or are these articles (and twitter murmurings) coincidentally out yesterday and today because of rumblings coming from city?

Or, has it just dawned on everyone watching the past 2 games that this bloke in charge seemingly has no idea what he is doing? 

[Cloughie]

9 minutes ago, silloth52 said:

did a melb city survey today this was the last question and not a 1 word  answer

melb city survey.ods

One word answer?

I’ll take “shit” for $200 million thanks Eddie 

[JMSTEP123]

16 minutes ago, silloth52 said:

did a melb city survey today this was the last question and not a 1 word  answer

melb city survey.ods

One word answer: dismal

[playmaker]

Hopefully they make the results of the one word answer public, as it would be pretty funny 

[HEARTinator]

Jets have just drawn 2:2 in a highly entertaining game against SFC. Said this before but Merrick has literally a beer budget, has taken recycled A-league players with a splash of overseas players (currently out injured) and fashioned a team that's exciting, can score goals and its sits second on the ladder. For all of CFG's clout they deliver us Warren Joyce who has driven out some players and is implementing a Sunday league football philosophy FFS

[Heart of Melbourne]

A crowd of 4K and a loss against the Nic will see him sacked this week. 

[haz]

Valkanis seems to be looking like a Genius at this stage

[JMSTEP123]

1 minute ago, haz said:

Valkanis seems to be looking like a Genius at this stage

And JVS a god.

I did not always like JVS, and he made some pretty ordinary choices over many years. But shit was there some entertaining football at times!  

[thisphantomfortress]

I've purchased tickets on the first class carriage of the Wazza out train. 

JVS was at least a nice guy. 

[GreenSeater]

1 hour ago, HEARTinator said:

Jets have just drawn 2:2 in a highly entertaining game against SFC. Said this before but Merrick has literally a beer budget, has taken recycled A-league players with a splash of overseas players (currently out injured) and fashioned a team that's exciting, can score goals and its sits second on the ladder. For all of CFG's clout they deliver us Warren Joyce who has driven out some players and is implementing a Sunday league football philosophy FFS

To be entirely fair, he was pretty ordinary at Wellington

[haz]

56 minutes ago, thisphantomfortress said:

I've purchased tickets on the first class carriage of the Wazza out train. 

Stealing my line aye

[n i k o]

Interestingly in his interview Wazza says "certain individuals make mistakes and do things they're not suppose to do and it's costing us." I got the impression he is talking about the last three games and not just this last game. Perhaps we are to expect a few changes for this game on Saturday with our starting eleven. 

[kingofhearts]

7 hours ago, n i k o said:

Interestingly in his interview Wazza says "certain individuals make mistakes and do things they're not suppose to do and it's costing us." I got the impression he is talking about the last three games and not just this last game. Perhaps we are to expect a few changes for this game on Saturday with our starting eleven. 

The only changes I can see wazza  making is having an entire starting line up of defenders. 

[Dylan]

7 hours ago, n i k o said:

Interestingly in his interview Wazza says "certain individuals make mistakes and do things they're not suppose to do and it's costing us." I got the impression he is talking about the last three games and not just this last game. Perhaps we are to expect a few changes for this game on Saturday with our starting eleven. 

Well thats a change from using 'we' all the time and not speaking against individual players. Hopefully this is a rift, and gets the sack soon

[thisphantomfortress]

8 hours ago, haz said:

Stealing my line aye

Immitation is the best form of flattery 

[GetOn]

Not great when a manager is publicly blaming players.  Good managers would absorb the blame (even if it was only a facade for the public arena) but the fact he publicly criticised players tells me he has gone into self preservation mode.... hopefully the clock is ticking on his tenure!

[raw10]

17 hours ago, Cloughie said:

One word answer?

I’ll take “shit” for $200 million thanks Eddie 

Insipid

[RedAndWhitePride]

1 hour ago, GetOn said:

Not great when a manager is publicly blaming players.  Good managers would absorb the blame (even if it was only a facade for the public arena) but the fact he publicly criticised players tells me he has gone into self preservation mode.... hopefully the clock is ticking on his tenure!

Would have to agree, I honestly hope that CFG have learnt from this and actually properly invest in a decent manager, because it certainly doesn't reflect well on them. 

 

One person already on our books who imo will make a great manager is Kisnorbo, however it'd be best to wait a couple of years for him to get more experience etc, but he definitely has the makings to be a top manager one day. 

 

 

[MHFC-FAN]

We should have just signed Amor when we had the chance...

[MXG]

Ok, after reading all the whinging in this thread, I must say: Wazza should not be sacked.

He clearly found a "doable" style for us and proved that with the right players attitude we can win and actually play watchable football.

The only difference between first 4 games and current mess is players attitude, not Wazza's. In the first 4 games they were aggressive, quick  and constantly fought for midfield. Now they are slow and detached. "Casual" as Wazza absolutely correctly put it. Otherwise we have enough skills, which is as important as attitude, to be successful. It was not a hoofball by any means.

We can blame him for putting too many defenders in midfield while in fact it's only Jacobsen who is extra defender there. I was one of the first here to point that he is shit in that position. Yes, that's ugly. But he put the best people he has in the attack. And they are mostly shit as a group. He has no option but try to push game up with more experienced players in deep positions. If he had Novillo and Mooy they would definitely made a difference. But he has Brattan, Mauk and poor Budzik. Not enough creativity from attacking players is the main factor.

We can only speculate why youngsters are not playing in the the midfield. Wazza extensively trialed Ganreau, Arzani etc in preseason.  Arzani and Crowley are getting their chances now. In last games Arzani proved that as a striker he is quite useless but very promising on the wing. With dedicated striker he will flourish. My guess all other are simply not ready. And even with Atkinson who is so far absolutely amazing, there is no guarantee he will be reliable week in week out at this age. Do not overhype youth.

We do not know why Ross has been substituted - may be he was not meant to play 90 mins after injury. Who knows. But to write it down as Wazza's stupidity is not correct.

Fernando departure is speculative as well. We did not see how he was after recovery. May be he was poor. Having just a great attitude is not enough. I would love to see him playing, but may be they needed a vacant place before January. Who knows.

Killa is a bit mystery. He has a short fuse for sure, but to disappear like that he must of mess with something important to Wazza. He certainly the only player on the bench who could add a bit of creativity in the midfield. Something happened there. I wild guess is that he got pissed that Malik is constantly selected and snapped. Malik is actually good by the way and fully deserves to be a first choice. I would definitively prefer to see Killa instead of Jacobsen or even try him instead of Brattan.

Cahill was toxic and it's a blessing he left.

If I missed any of other Wazza's "crimes" please feel free to correct. We can only speculate here.

So, bottom line we have a casual journeymen who just do not care enough. Last game only Bart was visibly disappointed with the result.

Wazza needs to start screw bolts in the team, that's why he was hired. I will consider him a failure only if he will not be able to push players attitude higher or if we will be playing with CCM, Perth, Newcastle attitude and still loosing.

 

EDIT.

Oh. And saying "certain individuals are making mistakes" doesn't mean he is calling names at all. He still doesn't discuss particular players like Jose or other "managers".

Edited January 4, 2018 by MXG

[n i k o]

9 minutes ago, MXG said:

Ok, after reading all the whinging in this thread, I must say: Wazza should not be sacked.

He clearly found a "doable" style for us and proved that with the right players attitude we can win and actually play watchable football.

The only difference between first 4 games and current mess is players attitude, not Wazza's. In the first 4 games they were aggressive, quick  and constantly fought for midfield. Now they are slow and detached. "Casual" as Wazza absolutely correctly put it. Otherwise we have enough skills, which is as important as attitude, to be successful. It was not a hoofball by any means.

We can blame him for putting too many defenders in midfield while in fact it's only Jacobsen who is extra defender there. I was one of the first here to point that he is shit in that position. Yes, that's ugly. But he put the best people he has in the attack. And they are mostly shit as a group. He has to option but try to push game up with more experienced players in deep positions. If he had Novillo and Mooy they would definitely made a difference. But he has Brattan, Mauk and poor Budzik. Not enough creativity from attacking players is the main factor.

We can only speculate why youngsters are not playing in the the midfield. Wazza extensively trialed Ganreau, Arzani etc in preseason.  Arzani and Crowley are getting their chances now. In last games Arzani proved that as a striker he is quite useless but very promising on the wing. With dedicated striker he will flourish. My guess all other are simply not ready. And even with Atkinson who is so far absolutely amazing, there is no guarantee he will be reliable week in week out at this age. Do not overhype youth.

We do not know why Ross has been substituted - may be he was not meant to play 90 mins after injury. Who knows. But to write it down as Wazza's stupidity is not correct.

Fernando departure is speculative as well. We did not see how he was after recovery. May be he was poor. Having just a great attitude is not enough. I would love to see him playing, but may be they needed a vacant place before January. Who knows.

Killa is a bit mystery. He has a short fuse for sure, but to disappear like that he must of mess with something important to Wazza. He certainly the only player on the bench who could add a bit of creativity in the midfield. Something happened there. I wild guess is that he got pissed that Malik is constantly selected and snapped. Malik is actually good by the way and fully deserves to be a first choice. I would definitively prefer to see Killa instead of Jacobsen or even try him instead of Brattan.

Cahill was toxic and it's a blessing he left.

If I missed any of other Wazza's "crimes" please feel free to correct. We can only speculate here.

So, bottom line we have a casual journeymen who just do not care enough. Last game only Bart was visibly disappointed with the result.

Wazza needs to start screw bolts in the team, that's why he was hired. I will consider him a failure only if he will not be able to push players attitude higher or if we will be playing with CCM, Perth, Newcastle attitude and still loosing.

All reasonable points. But so far this forum is two for two in picking a manager being removed or sacked. The forum as a collective has never been wrong. 

[Embee]

5 minutes ago, n i k o said:

All reasonable points. But so far this forum is two for two in picking a manager being removed or sacked. The forum as a collective has never been wrong. 

technically JVS was never sacked 

[n i k o]

4 minutes ago, Embee said:

technically JVS was never sacked 

Was waiting for that. In my mind he was  

[MXG]

5 minutes ago, n i k o said:

All reasonable points. But so far this forum is two for two in picking a manager being removed or sacked. The forum as a collective has never been wrong. 

Well it's 3 for 3 then. De-facto Valkanis has been sacked as well. The problem is knee jerk reaction of most posters doesn't add a lot of confidence TBH.

[n i k o]

1 minute ago, MXG said:

Well it's 3 for 3 then. De-facto Valkanis has been sacked as well. The problem is knee jerk reaction of most posters doesn't add a lot of confidence TBH.

You're right, forum odds have gone up further. 

Im not totally on the Wazza out wagon yet, although I'm in very much in favour of the idea. But that game on Saturday was a catalyst for so many people outrage. This response has been so united and vocal I also think the game has damaged the CFG brand image big time to the point where our over lords in Manchester are feeling it too. 

[JMSTEP123]

9 minutes ago, n i k o said:

You're right, forum odds have gone up further. 

Im not totally on the Wazza out wagon yet, although I'm in very much in favour of the idea. But that game on Saturday was a catalyst for so many people outrage. This response has been so united and vocal I also think the game has damaged the CFG brand image big time to the point where our over lords in Manchester are feeling it too. 

Not wrong. 

[Tangerine]

There's a lot i disagree with in MXG's post though i respect that they are reasoned arguments to make at this (relatively) early stage in Wazza's first season.

I don't think the football was that impressive, even at 4 wins from 4. We didn't set the world on-fire and i worried what would happen when we needed to chase or change-up a game. There have been some individual errors lately that weren't there in the first rounds but i certainly won't solely blame the players for the last 9 games. However, I'm not #WazzaOut.......yet. 

The definition of a good manager (IMHO) is their ability to 'manage' different circumstances. That is: players in and out of form; tactics that aren't working; ego and player management; different opponents, their strengths and weaknesses. So far Wazza has shown very little of this ability. Players he can't/won't work with have or are leaving. He has stuck to the same defensive midfield structure every game, stuck to his same core group of players and has shown no willingness to change-up a game by going to his bench when needed. 

There is half a season left and i would give him all of that time providing that Wazza can show some managerial nous! Show us an ability to adapt to this league, to his players and recognise where he has made mistakes. There is no doubt we have the player list to be much better than we currently are. Time for the manager to demonstrate his abilities.

[MXG]

21 minutes ago, n i k o said:

You're right, forum odds have gone up further. 

Im not totally on the Wazza out wagon yet, although I'm in very much in favour of the idea. But that game on Saturday was a catalyst for so many people outrage. This response has been so united and vocal I also think the game has damaged the CFG brand image big time to the point where our over lords in Manchester are feeling it too. 

I don't think Melbourne City mess will damage CFG brand considering how good ManCity is at the moment.

But I agree, Wazza's time is running out fast. Amazingly, after all years of mediocrity our fellow supporters still have very high expectations.

[n i k o]

6 minutes ago, MXG said:

I don't think Melbourne City mess will damage CFG brand considering how good ManCity is at the moment.

But I agree, Wazza's time is running out fast. Amazingly, after all years of mediocrity our fellow supporters still have very high expectations.

The CFG brand here in Australia is tarnished though. 

Well yeh course we do, most of us I'm sure don't accept mediocrity in any other parts of our life. Why should we accept it from a team we invest or money, time and effort into either. 

Edited January 4, 2018 by n i k o

[playmaker]

14 minutes ago, MXG said:

Wazza's time is running out fast

Yeah it is, already quarter of the way through. Maybe we need him for 3 seasons.

[belaguttman]

10 minutes ago, Tangerine said:

There's a lot i disagree with in MXG's post though i respect that they are reasoned arguments to make at this (relatively) early stage in Wazza's first season.

I don't think the football was that impressive, even at 4 wins from 4. We didn't set the world on-fire and i worried what would happen when we needed to chase or change-up a game. There have been some individual errors lately that weren't there in the first rounds but i certainly won't solely blame the players for the last 9 games. However, I'm not #WazzaOut.......yet. 

The definition of a good manager (IMHO) is their ability to 'manage' different circumstances. That is: players in and out of form; tactics that aren't working; ego and player management; different opponents, their strengths and weaknesses. So far Wazza has shown very little of this ability. Players he can't/won't work with have or are leaving. He has stuck to the same defensive midfield structure every game, stuck to his same core group of players and has shown no willingness to change-up a game by going to his bench when needed. 

There is half a season left and i would give him all of that time providing that Wazza can show some managerial nous! Show us an ability to adapt to this league, to his players and recognise where he has made mistakes. There is no doubt we have the player list to be much better than we currently are. Time for the manager to demonstrate his abilities.

A manager should:

recruit players or at least clearly define the players needed for the team

define a playing style for the team or implement the existing style of the team

select players for each match

make tactical adjustments during the match

substitute players as required

manage the individual and group processes in the team and the supporting structures around the team.

 

It's unclear how involved Wazza was in recruitment, certainly, he inherited much of the squad

The style has been defined, Wazza is implementing the opposite

team selections have been bizarre at times, of course, we aren't privy to what goes on behind the scenes

Tactical adjustments have been patchy, good at times, very poor at other times

Subs have been bizarre, and so has bench selection

There's always going to be some disruption and discontent with change, but change management is perhaps the key skill for a coach this season, I'm not sure if this is Wazza's strength

[MXG]

24 minutes ago, Tangerine said:

I don't think the football was that impressive, even at 4 wins from 4. We didn't set the world on-fire and i worried what would happen when we needed to chase or change-up a game. There have been some individual errors lately that weren't there in the first rounds but i certainly won't solely blame the players for the last 9 games. However, I'm not #WazzaOut.......yet.

 

It's not just errors. In the first 4 games we played like a team. Trying to win a ball in pairs, covering midfield well, passing quicker. The biggest difference was urgency. It was well structured execution of the game plan. Individual errors came with comfort and complacency. They are the result not the reason.

 

24 minutes ago, Tangerine said:

The definition of a good manager (IMHO) is their ability to 'manage' different circumstances. That is: players in and out of form; tactics that aren't working; ego and player management; different opponents, their strengths and weaknesses. So far Wazza has shown very little of this ability. Players he can't/won't work with have or are leaving. He has stuck to the same defensive midfield structure every game, stuck to his same core group of players and has shown no willingness to change-up a game by going to his bench when needed.

 

Unfortunately, A-league doesn't give much luxury to manage players. Squads are thin, skill base is shallow. The level of manager control over various aspects of team is questionable as well. As for the gameplan, I am not convinced that Wazza's plan was to play ONLY defensively. We just do not have attacking mid players skillful enough. We simply cannot control midfield. Hence extra defender in the midfield in attempt to win the ball earlier. I bet if we were more creative in attack nobody would notice that Wazza was too defensive.

 

24 minutes ago, Tangerine said:

There is half a season left and i would give him all of that time providing that Wazza can show some managerial nous! Show us an ability to adapt to this league, to his players and recognise where he has made mistakes. There is no doubt we have the player list to be much better than we currently are. Time for the manager to demonstrate his abilities.

 

Of course, it's up to him. I am not protecting him. he is fully responsible for the situation. If he cannot do anything about it he should be sacked. Not sure what was the CFG target for him, but if he will create a winning culture with no-passenger players attitude, I will consider his first season successful.

Edited January 4, 2018 by MXG

[MXG]

16 minutes ago, n i k o said:

The CFG brand here in Australia is tarnished though. 

Well yeh course we do, most of us I'm sure don't accept mediocrity in any other parts of our life. Why should we accept it from a team we invest or money, time and effort into either. 

In Australia CFG is treated as a dairy cow anyway.

CFG doesn't make an impression as entity which simply wants to buy a trophy. That's why they've got Pep, not Jose. And a bunch of other promising young coaches. We do not know the metrics they are measuring performance with. For us it's simply position and trophies, but if you remember the interview with CFG football chief at the end of last season, he complained about culture. So, my guess is that CFG will sack Wazza only if they will resign on his ability to change the culture. And now he is not succeeding unfortunately.

22 minutes ago, playmaker said:

Yeah it is, already quarter of the way through. Maybe we need him for 3 seasons.

First season - solid team, second season - invincibles.

[jw1739]

2 hours ago, n i k o said:

You're right, forum odds have gone up further. 

Im not totally on the Wazza out wagon yet, although I'm in very much in favour of the idea. But that game on Saturday was a catalyst for so many people outrage. This response has been so united and vocal I also think the game has damaged the CFG brand image big time to the point where our over lords in Manchester are feeling it too. 

And, of course, as the seasons go by with just a solitary FFA Cup trophy to show for it (and, BTW, how we sparkled in the SF against MV and then again against Sydney in the Final - only 13 months ago - those two matches were the club and its fans at their best) the pressure on whoever is the incumbent coach, and the squad of players, is only going to intensify and the tolerance for mistakes and excuses is going to diminish.

[jeffplz]

Anyone else just riding the wave?

[Rasputin]

Wazza just needs more defenders in the midfield and all will be right.