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Warren Joyce. As predicted by Serb Hair Dresser.. Goneski


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7 minutes ago, playmaker said:

So with a new manager pending, and a possible rethink of our way of playing, the question is how long would be acceptable for the club to succeed?

Do we expect success in the first season or would it be wiser to allow a new manager 2 or 3 years to undo the JVS culture and bring long term league dominance?

What is the expectation of the fans and what would we consider real success?

 

Depends on how you classify succeed. This season has been a failure as far as the season proper goes, although we have the chance to salvage it if we can get it right over the last 5 games.

I said at the start of the season anything less than ACL qualification will be an absolute failure and i stand by that. From here we need to secure third to at least get a bare pass mark, and really need to make the GF to be considered any sort of success.

For next season and going forward, there absolutely has to be progress. A top 2 finish and a GF at a minimum should be the expectation every season from this club barring exceptional circumstances. Manager shouldn't make a difference to expectation with our resources. We should expect to be at least in the mix every season in any case.

Real success is titles and going deep into ACL for mine, although i dont really believe in completely spitting the dummy when we dont achieve it as long as we can show we know what we are doing. I do think quite a few people underestimate how difficult it is to be successful in the A-League.

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47 minutes ago, mjake1234 said:

My Impression of Kewell is that he is too nice. We need a strong, dominant manager.

Harry Kewell? I can picture him just trying to get senior coaching experience in to make his CV look good but couldn't give a rats behind about City. Don't want him.

Next.

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1 hour ago, playmaker said:

So with a new manager pending, and a possible rethink of our way of playing, the question is how long would be acceptable for the club to succeed?

Do we expect success in the first season or would it be wiser to allow a new manager 2 or 3 years to undo the JVS culture and bring long term league dominance?

What is the expectation of the fans and what would we consider real success?

 

I have no expectations , anymore

 

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6 minutes ago, belaguttman said:

As long as he leaves at the end of the season

Why? I've never got the Roy hate tbh. Obviously he had a disaster of a World Cup in 14 (albeit in the group of death) and the loss to Iceland was embarrassing, but he's had a good record at all of his clubs bar Liverpool over the distance has he not?

Not being smart, just curious as to what people hate so much about him.

Edited by bt50
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15 minutes ago, bt50 said:

Why? I've never got the Roy hate tbh. Obviously he had a disaster of a World Cup in 14 (albeit in the group of death) and the loss to Iceland was embarrassing, but he's had a good record at all of his clubs bar Liverpool over the distance has he not?

Not being smart, just curious as to what people hate so much about him.

Reports say he's only here to mentor and will not be in contention to coach. My problem with Roy is the same as JVS, he's personality doesn't seem like a "motivating" leader to me. I want a manger you will absolutely rip into a player (ie Brattan) for not putting in enough effort or when the team concedes in the last 10 minutes.

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39 minutes ago, bt50 said:

Why? I've never got the Roy hate tbh. Obviously he had a disaster of a World Cup in 14 (albeit in the group of death) and the loss to Iceland was embarrassing, but he's had a good record at all of his clubs bar Liverpool over the distance has he not?

Not being smart, just curious as to what people hate so much about him.

It's just mainly the high profile catastrophe at Liverpool (and obviously to a certain extent England, although they're always useless regardless of who's in charge) which has put people off him I think, easy to forget he had some pretty succesfull stints accross Europe and was brilliant at Fulham.

Personally I feel he's probably a little too 'old school' for us but he would indeed easily be the most well proven and credentialed coach in the league if he was to be our next appointment

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I think as a senior manager he would command respect, something that has always been missing at our club. He would change the culture and provide a solid game plan. Nothing but positive if we sign him.

In the interim hopefully he reports back to CFG that we are rudderless head case of a team and the management needs to go.

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52 minutes ago, bt50 said:

Why? I've never got the Roy hate tbh. Obviously he had a disaster of a World Cup in 14 (albeit in the group of death) and the loss to Iceland was embarrassing, but he's had a good record at all of his clubs bar Liverpool over the distance has he not?

Not being smart, just curious as to what people hate so much about him.

In every England game under him, everything was so disjointed in attack. No fluency and no desire. Additionally, it seemed like they had no clue what to do in the final third and with the players he had, that's a joke. I don't think he has any real ideas on how to utilise talented and creative players. Perhaps that was the case with all England sides in the past 10 years but that was my impression from watching Roy's side.

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1 hour ago, bt50 said:

Why? I've never got the Roy hate tbh. Obviously he had a disaster of a World Cup in 14 (albeit in the group of death) and the loss to Iceland was embarrassing, but he's had a good record at all of his clubs bar Liverpool over the distance has he not?

Not being smart, just curious as to what people hate so much about him.

He'll be 70 by the time the next season starts, although it's not just his age but I think that his best days are behind him. We need a coach with fire in his belly, you can see his problem as England coach as largely due to his inability to meld the personalities in the English team into a cohesive unit that 'bought the vision'. Can you imagine any elite sporting team in Australia respecting a coach in a blazer?

More likely he's here to provide an outside opinion on what is required for a new manager

Edited by belaguttman
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I've heard that the players 'checked out' to a degree once JVS left and that MV doesnt necessarily command the respect that a more experienced big name manager would generate.  Its not that the players don't like him, they just don't fear him or believe that he has the experience to manage them to success.

Whether RH is manager or not next season, RH being there should cause a lift in intensity and improve the mentality among the group which hopefully helps going into the finals.

Also, it is funny that the news of RH being there becomes public on the day that next season's membership is launched.

 

 

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18 minutes ago, Torn Asunder said:

I've heard that the players 'checked out' to a degree once JVS left and that MV doesnt necessarily command the respect that a more experienced big name manager would generate.  Its not that the players don't like him, they just don't fear him or believe that he has the experience to manage them to success.

Whether RH is manager or not next season, RH being there should cause a lift in intensity and improve the mentality among the group which hopefully helps going into the finals.

Also, it is funny that the news of RH being there becomes public on the day that next season's membership is launched.

That's a pretty piss-poor attitude, and if true, then things are a lot worse than I thought. They hardly ever "checked-in" under JvS in the first place.

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He's not here as a potential coach.  But his input over the next month could be very useful.  I rate the guy. He wasn't successful everywhere, but he was in enough places to suggest he knows what he was doing.  And whilst those performances in finals for England were poor (he's not alone there), they were preceded by very strong qualifying campaigns.

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1 hour ago, fensaddler said:

He's not here as a potential coach.  But his input over the next month could be very useful.  I rate the guy. He wasn't successful everywhere, but he was in enough places to suggest he knows what he was doing.  And whilst those performances in finals for England were poor (he's not alone there), they were preceded by very strong qualifying campaigns.

You're right there. He was a defender. He's Jakobsen's replacement.

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2 hours ago, fensaddler said:

He's not here as a potential coach.  But his input over the next month could be very useful.  I rate the guy. He wasn't successful everywhere, but he was in enough places to suggest he knows what he was doing.  And whilst those performances in finals for England were poor (he's not alone there), they were preceded by very strong qualifying campaigns.

Although there are divided opinions on if he would be a good coach or not. Credit to the club in getting somone of his experience to mentor and observe the club, no other clubs in the league would ever have this opportunity (the most similar comparison is Mariners with 'Arry').

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36 minutes ago, haz said:

Although there are divided opinions on if he would be a good coach or not. Credit to the club in getting somone of his experience to mentor and observe the club, no other clubs in the league would ever have this opportunity (the most similar comparison is Mariners with 'Arry').

Wonder what mentoring means TBH. Is it to change to what he disagrees with? Because if that's the case changes are going to come thick and fast.

Interesting article about him:

Roy Hodgson's coaching philosophy and tactics - LFChistory

This article is based on an article written by Magnus Thor Jonsson originally published on KOP.is, a popular Icelandic Liverpool FC forum.

For the last few days I have sought advice from those who have followed Hodgson's career throughout the years ever since he went to Sweden in 1976 and will try to realise his character and coaching philosophy.
Roy Hodgson is a legend in Sweden. He became manager of struggling Halmstad in 1976, who like so many Swedish teams at the time used a sweeper with 3 or 5 in defence favouring man-marking. Roy changed the team's shape to 4-4-2 and used zonal marking: "On the first day of the season, 20 newspapers said Halmstads would go down. I’d qualified for my full coaching badge at 23 but that was my first season coaching adults. Halmstads had played a very different type of football to what I wanted, man-to-man across the field, with a libero. From the start it was: ‘Okay, you lads know nothing, this is what we’re going to do’." (From Roy Hodgson's interview at Fulhamweb).

Hodgson was made fun of at the time, but no one was laughing when Halmstad won the championship, Allsvenskan, for the very first time in the club's history in Hodgson's first season! Whereas the team had 5 wins, scoring 28 goals and finishing 12th out of 14 the previous season, under Hodgson Halmstad won 17 games and scored 56 goals on their way to the title. No wonder he later described this achievement as the greatest in his career, comparing it to changing water into wine. 

Hodgson's good friend, Bob Houghton, who was Malmö FF's coach at the time, reaching the European Cup final in 1979, also used 4-4-2 with zonal marking. The Englishmen were in the beginning called the "enemies of football" in Sweden, but their tactics are now most commonly used in Swedish football. Hodgson later led Malmö FF to the Swedish championship in 1986 and 1988.

Hodgson has always kept faith with the basic 4-4-2 he adopted at Halmstad with constant pressure on the opponent and the defence pushed up the field, used to good advantage against European opposition by Fulham in their successful Europa League campaign last season.

Roy at Malmö FF with Stefan Schwarz, who later played at Arsenal and Sunderland

Hodgson likes to have pairs all over the field. Two centre-backs supporting each other, the left back supporting the left wing with the right back doing the same on the right, overlapping when a chance presents itself. Two central midfielders covering the defence as well as being catalysts for attacks and two up front, feeding off each other, often one larger centre with physical attributes paired with a quicker, more technical one.

Roy is a training ground coach. He likes best to be in his tracksuit at, in this instance, Melwood, emphasising team shape, training routines with the players positioned from where the opponent is attacking, concentrating on how to win the ball from the opponent and attack from that point. Also a favourite routine of his is to split the squad into three teams where two of them keep the ball while one tries to catch it.

"Pass and move, always move it quickly and once you lose it get back in to position. That was the mantra which took Liverpool through their great years. I was influenced by the Liverpool team which dominated the 70s with all its great players and playing the football they played."

Players who have played for Hodgson, sometimes felt these shape routines were boring and repetitive, but when players saw them working on the field of play, they were quite pleased to suffer them. Simon Davies played under Hodgson at Fulham, so he should know a thing or two about Hodgson's training routines: 
"Every day is geared towards team shape – and it shows. We would have a little laugh about it now and again, but when he came to Fulham we were fighting relegation. His management style took us to a Europa League final, so you take it. I don’t want to give any secrets away, but he gets the 11 that he wants for a match and drills everything in that he wants. It’s defensive drills and certain attacking drills – with no diagrams. It’s all on the pitch with the ball." 
Roy has been referred to as an old school coach (a reference which irritates him), but his comments on his recipe for success at Liverpool suggests otherwise: "Pass and move, always move it quickly and once you lose it get back in to position. That was the mantra which took Liverpool through their great years. I like a high-tempo passing game. I like players to work hard, I like players to get back in position. Those are my priniciples. I was influenced by the Liverpool team which dominated the 70s with all its great players and playing the football they played."

Roy has for several years worked as a match analyst for UEFA's technical committee and is well respected throughout the football world. He's held lectures at various coaching seminars where he preaches his philosophy of football. He's managed virtually at all levels in the game, gathering valuable experience on the way and has learnt from top coaches all throughout Europe. He never tires of telling people of a survey that revealed the best coaches in Europe only use 8-9 different training routines. They may vary from coach to coach, but are basically the same routines.

Edited by playmaker
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50 minutes ago, playmaker said:

Wonder what mentoring means TBH. Is it to change to what he disagrees with? Because if that's the case changes are going to come thick and fast.

Mentor: experienced and trusted advisor. He could be advising on any aspect of the management of a football squad - technical, tactics, man management etc. According to the media reports he's here for a month. And he's actually here, not like that wanker Ron Smith, so-called Technical Advisor in the Aloisi era, who was advising the club by video analysis and e-mail.

I'd like to think Hodgson is here to put a bomb under the coaching team and the squad. But I doubt that CFG would do that. They seem to be like a supertanker trying to change course.

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7 hours ago, jw1739 said:

Mentor: experienced and trusted advisor. He could be advising on any aspect of the management of a football squad - technical, tactics, man management etc. According to the media reports he's here for a month. And he's actually here, not like that wanker Ron Smith, so-called Technical Advisor in the Aloisi era, who was advising the club by video analysis and e-mail.

I'd like to think Hodgson is here to put a bomb under the coaching team and the squad. But I doubt that CFG would do that. They seem to be like a supertanker trying to change course.

Im not sure i would like a "mentor" at this stage of the season. If it was me Im the boss, last thing i would want is to be made to look incompetent and clueless in front of the group im trying to steer through finals. 

He's here as a spy and possibly to see if he wants the job, i mean isnt that how JVS came back as a "technical director"

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1 hour ago, HeartOfCity said:

Im not sure i would like a "mentor" at this stage of the season. If it was me Im the boss, last thing i would want is to be made to look incompetent and clueless in front of the group im trying to steer through finals. 

He's here as a spy and possibly to see if he wants the job, i mean isnt that how JVS came back as a "technical director"

Valkanis has already shown he is incompetent/unqualified.

Edited by malloy
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2 hours ago, HeartOfCity said:

Im not sure i would like a "mentor" at this stage of the season. If it was me Im the boss, last thing i would want is to be made to look incompetent and clueless in front of the group im trying to steer through finals. 

He's here as a spy and possibly to see if he wants the job, i mean isnt that how JVS came back as a "technical director"

He is doing a great job at it himself, I don't think Roy can contribute much here as the players have got the wtf look for most games.

I totally agree with the 'I am the boss, who the fk are you' scenario as any egos or descent in his presence would be shown the door pretty quickly.

Gut feeling is that Roy will be here next season with the role of 'fix everything that is broken', which he is very good at doing btw.

Edited by playmaker
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12 hours ago, HeartOfCity said:

Im not sure i would like a "mentor" at this stage of the season. If it was me Im the boss, last thing i would want is to be made to look incompetent and clueless in front of the group im trying to steer through finals. 

He's here as a spy and possibly to see if he wants the job, i mean isnt that how JVS came back as a "technical director"

With you completely on this, and wonder how come a "mentoring" process wasn't put in sooner.  

IMO Hodgson is a solid coach who unfortunately will be remembered (a.) as  a typical England Football Manager who has to deal with under performing elite players against an over the top optimistic media who think England should win everything, and (b.) a very poor Liverpool tenure. Doesn't mean he'd do well here, but way better than most

Edited by mattyh001
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