Daniel Arzani

[Shahanga]

9 hours ago, Thrillhouse said:

fucking fuming, what a fucking waste
as it stands we've got a gaping hole in our squad, while that player that would of started every game can now sit on bench for 2 years for a bunch of shitcunts that couldn't even beat some greeks
give us a decent marquee you cunts 

Normally I don’t agree with you. 

This time I do.

i think Arzani has been an unmitigated disaster from a club perspective.  He played in the men’s team for 5 minutes and then, the best talent this country has seen in 2 decades, we sell him for “2&6”.

The CFG accountants celebrate no doubt, but he’s been a total waste of club resources from a Melbourne City fan perspective.

[n i k o]

7 minutes ago, Shahanga said:

Normally I don’t agree with you. 

This time I do.

i think Arzani has been an unmitigated disaster from a club perspective.  He played in the men’s team for 5 minutes and then, the best talent this country has seen in 2 decades, we sell him for “2&6”.

The CFG accountants celebrate no doubt, but he’s been a total waste of club resources from a Melbourne City fan perspective.

The clubs resources have little to do with us supporters. It matters little to us if the club put in 50k or 5 million into developing him. Unless we have a large monetary input into funding his development and expect a return in results, which we don't, it's irrelevant to us how many resources have been used on him. All that matters is we have lost a very good player and now need to fill the hole.

The only people that could make this comment is the resources (people) that are directly involved with assisting him for their own outcomes. Eg. Joyce has put in effort, time to help him develop to make his sqaud better and now Arzani has gone.  

 

 

[Shahanga]

Not really talking about money (although I mention it) talking about footballing output @n i k o. How can we succeed when we waste our resources developing players who don’t play for us (and we don’t replace with similar when they leave)?

[n i k o]

8 minutes ago, Shahanga said:

Not really talking about money (although I mention it) talking about footballing output @n i k o. How can we succeed when we waste our resources developing players who don’t play for us (and we don’t replace with similar when they leave)?

Personal view but how much resources we put into him isn't an issue for me. I'm actually proud we are putting so many resources into our players, especially our youngsters.

So just to understand then, are you saying don't put as many resources into developing our young talent? What are you proposing we do then? 

 

Edited August 18, 2018 by n i k o

[rass]

35 minutes ago, Shahanga said:

Normally I don’t agree with you. 

This time I do.

i think Arzani has been an unmitigated disaster from a club perspective.  He played in the men’s team for 5 minutes and then, the best talent this country has seen in 2 decades, we sell him for “2&6”.

The CFG accountants celebrate no doubt, but he’s been a total waste of club resources from a Melbourne City fan perspective.

Maybe, just maybe, he actually wanted to go to Europe?

Matters shit what we want then. Man City were forced to pick him up to keep him in the stable. Otherwise, he would have joined a Juve or whoever else was looking at him and CFG would've lost him for good.

I reckon the ball was in his court the moment he came on and scored in that friendly.

[Shahanga]

Just now, n i k o said:

Personal view but how much resources we put into him isn't an issue for me. I'm actually proud we are putting so many resources into our players, especially our youngsters.

So just to understand then, are you saying don't put as many resources into developing our young talent? What are you proposing we do then? 

What I’m saying is you want to try to keep your talent but when you can’t you need to replace them as best you can.

we haven’t done that.

I’ll ask it as a question. What benefit has MC got from Arzanis emergence last year?

As I see it Australian football has benefited, CFG has benefited but Melbourne city has lost out.

4 minutes ago, rass said:

Maybe, just maybe, he actually wanted to go to Europe?

Matters shit what we want then. Man City were forced to pick him up to keep him in the stable. Otherwise, he would have joined a Juve or whoever else was looking at him and CFG would've lost him for good.

I reckon the ball was in his court the moment he came on and scored in that friendly.

Yeah but it wasn’t Arzani choice not to replace himself 

[jw1739]

8 minutes ago, Shahanga said:

Not really talking about money (although I mention it) talking about footballing output @n i k o. How can we succeed when we waste our resources developing players who don’t play for us (and we don’t replace with similar when they leave)?

Usually I agree with you, but this time I don't. All that concerns us directly is whether we want to continue to support the club or not based on who's likely to play for us next season. Setting aside any emotional factor, this comes down to what we think we're going to get for the price of admission. We don't pay any of the bills - City is owned lock stock and barrel by City Football Group via Manchester City. In effect, so is everyone else who's been involved in Daniel's development since he joined us. And City Football Group is quite open about it - it is running a business (or a series of businesses).

I'm not saying that I'm completely comfortable with the situation, but IMO that's what it boils down to. Supporters of every other A-League club are in the same boat in terms of supporting something that is privately owned - we're just the most obvious because of the higher profile of CFG.

[n i k o]

32 minutes ago, Shahanga said:

What I’m saying is you want to try to keep your talent but when you can’t you need to replace them as best you can.

we haven’t done that.

I’ll ask it as a question. What benefit has MC got from Arzanis emergence last year?

As I see it Australian football has benefited, CFG has benefited but Melbourne city has lost out.

Yeah but it wasn’t Arzani choice not to replace himself 

I partly agree, as you said.... 1.You try to keep your talent. 2. And if you can't you need to replace them as best as you can. But why the mention of resources? This is my point. Resources has nothing to do with these two points you've made. They are separate entities in that they are not really dependant on each other. As you say you try to keep the talent. If you can't you replace them as best as you can. 

As to what benefit? Again slightly different outlook....

-CFG has made a profit which makes us viable as a club. This is important because our owners consider this important. Pretty simple.

-As a club? Be known for attracting talent that will spend more time here than Arzani and could help win us the title. Arzani is definitely an outlier in the landscape. Most young talents won't spend 5 months in the senior sqaud then be sought after internationally. Most will spend that extra season with us. A perfect example of that is Mooy who stayed here with us an extra season and moved up into a marquee position. 

-One more benefit is hopefully in the future we will have a lot of former City youngsters in the national team. To me it would be a source of pride in this club that I have not experienced yet. Imagine. Melbourne City. The club that takes youngsters to represent the NT. That's a great image to have. 

Edited August 18, 2018 by n i k o

[haz]

 

[kingofhearts]

On 8/4/2018 at 1:40 PM, n i k o said:

Couldn't disagree more, for many reasons that I can't be bothered going into them all. Look at his age, the location of the league he's in, the exposure he will get and the advantageous stepping stone he will now have into higher level European football. 

The league is shit with one team miles better then the rest, what has playing for Celtics done for rogic? All that exposure had lead him nowhere.  I'm not against him making a move overseas, I support it but the split is the wrong league for him. 

Spl is a pub league for pub players,  a league teams could beat most teams in the Spl. 

[n i k o]

4 hours ago, kingofhearts said:

The league is shit with one team miles better then the rest, what has playing for Celtics done for rogic? All that exposure had lead him nowhere.  I'm not against him making a move overseas, I support it but the split is the wrong league for him. 

Spl is a pub league for pub players,  a league teams could beat most teams in the Spl. 

What has Celtic done for Rogic?

Firstly on a personal level they've helped him keep a clean bill of health so that he can continue to play regularly under a coach that likes him. Secondly, playing at Celtic has allowed Rogic to become a key player for his team which in turn has made him a recognised player within Europe. By playing for them he has also had experiences playing in front of massive crowds, high expectation and against other teams from Europe in CL.  Now the only reason he is at Celtic right now is his own personal choice. You completely misunderstand this and somehow seem to think that he is there through no choice of his own. Like I said orginally, there's also a number of other reasons as to why this move makes sense right now for Arzani. 

[Jacques Le Cube]

10 hours ago, n i k o said:

What has Celtic done for Rogic?

Firstly on a personal level they've helped him keep a clean bill of health so that he can continue to play regularly under a coach that likes him. Secondly, playing at Celtic has allowed Rogic to become a key player for his team which in turn has made him a recognised player within Europe. By playing for them he has also had experiences playing in front of massive crowds, high expectation and against other teams from Europe in CL.  Now the only reason he is at Celtic right now is his own personal choice. You completely misunderstand this and somehow seem to think that he is there through no choice of his own. Like I said orginally, there's also a number of other reasons as to why this move makes sense right now for Arzani. 

So in answer to the question 'What has Celtic done for Rogic?' you have said;

1) He is not injured (currently).

2) Celtic have big crowds.

3) Celtic are in Europe.

[n i k o]

1 hour ago, Jacques Le Cube said:

So in answer to the question 'What has Celtic done for Rogic?' you have said;

1) He is not injured (currently).

2) Celtic have big crowds.

3) Celtic are in Europe.

 

Not sure what your point is in repeating my answers and oversimplifying them. Firstly they're not the only reason I gave, re read my post again. Secondly instead of over simplifying my answers the idea is you can decipher what benefit Rogic has had from those points I made. Do I have to write a thesis on the benefits of playing in such an intense and cut throat environment where in fact Rogic has come through all that as one of the most key players in his team?  Is it difficult to see that through this process Rogic set himself up to be in a position where he could move to a much bigger club, yet through personal choice he chose not to? And through this is it not evident that Arzani can follow Rogic lead in gaining these same benefits at a club where he is under a coach that will want to help him and support him? In turn setting himself up to take a step to a bigger league, one that Rogic chose not to take.

 

 

 

 

Edited August 20, 2018 by n i k o

[Rasputin]

Any wonder why this club can't increase it's supporter base and membership when the players with some potential are quickly sold off for a quick buck. 

[rass]

3 minutes ago, Rasputin said:

Any wonder why this club can't increase it's supporter base and membership when the players with some potential are quickly sold off for a quick buck. 

Yeah, that's it....

[Inchcolm]

Celtic's teenage winger starts tonight's Europa cup match. The reports state the manager has great faith in him and has a bright future. Just one of the wingers Arzani has beat for a place on the wing.

[Chris p]

4 hours ago, Inchcolm said:

Celtic's teenage winger starts tonight's Europa cup match. The reports state the manager has great faith in him and has a bright future. Just one of the wingers Arzani has beat for a place on the wing.

Has to*

[Inchcolm]

Watched the game last night young boy Johnstone had a very good game. I believe Arzani may struggle to get a place in the team. If I was celtic I would be developing my own players before any other teams 

[jw1739]

30 minutes ago, Inchcolm said:

Watched the game last night young boy Johnstone had a very good game. I believe Arzani may struggle to get a place in the team. If I was celtic I would be developing my own players before any other teams 

I'm sure that Manchester City, Arzani himself and Arzani's agent will monitor the situation very carefully. If he doesn't get adequate game time he will be recalled to Manchester and loaned out elsewhere - if all he does at Celtic is train then they are losing on their investment.

[pattyd89]

Getting minutes in the World Cup and not doing too badly has absolutely shot us in the foot. No one would have noticed him for another season otherwise....

[Shahanga]

21 hours ago, Inchcolm said:

Watched the game last night young boy Johnstone had a very good game. I believe Arzani may struggle to get a place in the team. If I was celtic I would be developing my own players before any other teams 

TBH this is probably what Arzani needs. Reading between the lines it seems he has a propensity for stuff to go to his head.

Getting in Celtic’s squad and suddenly realising there are bloody good players in his position in even the reserves will leave him in no illusions about the challenges he now faces.

For what it’s worth though I reckon if he knuckles down he’ll make it. The kid is a rare talent.

Edited August 25, 2018 by Shahanga

[NewConvert]

2 hours ago, Shahanga said:

TBH this is probably what Arzani needs. Reading between the lines it seems he has a propensity for stuff to go to his head.

Getting in Celtic’s squad and suddenly realising there are bloody good players in his position in even the reserves will leave him in no illusions about the challenges he now faces.

For what it’s worth though I reckon if he knuckles down he’ll make it. The kid is a rare talent.

This. He is now a smaller fish in a much bigger pool. So he will either train harder and do the hard yards or fail. Like you I do think he has the talent and teh stiffer competition will make him grow as a player. After all you don't get better if you don't play against top talent.

[jw1739]

18 hours ago, NewConvert said:

This. He is now a smaller fish in a much bigger pool. So he will either train harder and do the hard yards or fail. Like you I do think he has the talent and teh stiffer competition will make him grow as a player. After all you don't get better if you don't play against top talent.

I'm not sure about the wisdom of a move to Celtic. I'd have thought Manchester would have preferred Arzani to go to a club in a better league than the A-League but where he was pretty well guaranteed to get enough time on the field so that he could be properly assessed at a higher level and he could make progress in a competitive environment. As it is I can see him spending plenty of time on the track and the bench and not achieving either of the above.

IMO Melbourne has come out of this OK. We've got some return on our investment, and by all accounts Najjarine is ready to follow in Arzani's footsteps. Bird in hand etc.

[Inchcolm]

SPFL is a feeder league to England in recent years many players have used Scottish clubs as a stepping stone. As I have stated before there is too much competition for wingers at Celtic so he will struggle to get game time.

[hakz7]

Celtic playing at 12am tonight. Let’s see if he at least makes the squad.

[citymad]

I think he would have been better at a Dutch club. More chance of game time. He main isssue is that he doesn't have a euro passport. Neither does najjarine btw

[hakz7]

Well.. not in the squad.

[Inchcolm]

Three wingers on the bench and he was not one of them.

[Young Polak]

cunt's fucked.

[jeffplz]

https://www.insidesport.com.au/news/arzani-to-wait-to-make-celtic-debut-500740

[n i k o]

What if I was to take you guys forward in time and tell you Arzani gets his first game within the next month and makes a meaningful impact that will put him in starting contention...

[haz]

He hasn't done any 'real' training since the WC. He probaly sat around playing Fortnite. I'd only worry if he wasn't making the bench after the next 3 games.

[Jovan]

2 hours ago, n i k o said:

What if I was to take you guys forward in time and tell you Arzani gets his first game within the next month and makes a meaningful impact that will put him in starting contention...

I'd still be able to find some problem with that. 

[Inchcolm]

Others who were at the world cup got a couple of weeks off and are now back in the team. Did he let his fitness fall away so badly that he is weeks away from being considered for selection I think it is a smoke screen their manager has 4 wingers and did not want another one. From what I've seen he needs a centre back. Could be providing a point to the committee and leaving him out as long as possible or he feels that Arzani will weaken his team. 

[n i k o]

1 hour ago, Jovan said:

I'd still be able to find some problem with that. 

Did you mistake my comment as positive 

[jw1739]

1 hour ago, haz said:

He hasn't done any 'real' training since the WC. He probaly sat around playing Fortnite. I'd only worry if he wasn't making the bench after the next 3 games.

This is an interesting article. https://www.insidesport.com.au/news/babbel-the-a-leagues-too-easy-on-players-500475

IIRC Cahill did the same thing after the Confederations Cup last off-season. The extended time off that he took after the Cup was basically the end of him as a City player.

I don't know when the other Celtic players reported back for training before this season started, but Arzani must be weeks behind them in terms of fitness, and IMO he's going to struggle to even make the bench. We saw this with Budzinski last season - in Joyce's eyes he wasn't ready for the start of the season and that didn't do him any good thereafter.

[haz]

24 minutes ago, jw1739 said:

This is an interesting article. https://www.insidesport.com.au/news/babbel-the-a-leagues-too-easy-on-players-500475

 

Yep big difference playing ~30  games per season in comparison to ~50.

The thing im worried about is that rodgers wont have the focus to motivate him like Joyce did due to the sheer size of Celtic. As someone else said on here, he's gone from being 'the golden child' of a ten team league to just another promising youth player in a much much larger club.

But if he does break this barrier and becomes a starter within the two seasons he is there, then it will only do himself and his profile good.

Edited August 27, 2018 by haz

[Jovan]

1 hour ago, n i k o said:

Did you mistake my comment as positive 

No on the contrary. 

[HughJass]

Played 62 mins in their reserves

[thisphantomfortress]

23 hours ago, HughJass said:

Played 62 mins in their reserves

Better off in the NYL

Edited August 28, 2018 by thisphantomfortress