Daniel Arzani

[haz]

As I have said before he is stupid to leave.

 

Good to see (if true) City puting in those types of clauses on contracts

[NuggetsMcGreggor]

What if he took the pen because there’s a goals clause in his contract 

[Thrillhouse]

hopefully we can keep him for another season, would be happy for him to go to Europe after that. 

So much of the attacking play comes from him

[Dylan]

I’d be very surprised if he went to Sydney. They are going to fall into a heap when Arnold goes

[Tony999]

1 hour ago, Dylan said:

I’d be very surprised if he went to Sydney. They are going to fall into a heap when Arnold goes

Is he only there till the end of the season?

 

[haz]

10 hours ago, Tony999 said:

Is he only there till the end of the season?

 

His contract expires at the end yes.

[Cityamatic]

Not sure if this is the right spot for this, or the 'Wazza Out' thread...

https://www.theguardian.com/football/2018/jan/29/daniel-arzani-towers-over-his-melbourne-city-team-mates

 

Daniel Arzani towers over his Melbourne City team-mates

Ante Jukic

Sun 28 Jan 2018 

 

City coach Warren Joyce seems to not fully appreciate what a talent he has in Arzani

As the ball helplessly rolled out of bounds, Melbourne City’s Warren Joyce barked from the touchline, “That’s fuckin’ schoolboy stuff!” After his attempted dummy in City’s 5-0 win over Adelaide United, Daniel Arzani felt the wrath of his nearby coach, who then demanded the young attacker win possession back.

It could seem small amid countless isolated moments over the course of a football match, but in context of City’s season, this moment was far from insignificant. Principally, Ryan Strain’s close defensive attention prior to the dummy showed just how much the 19-year-old is affecting his side’s ability to threaten the opposition.

It is conceptually parallel to what is known as gravity in the NBA. In this era of pace-and-space basketball, reliable three-point shooters can stretch the floor and opposition defences in turn for their team-mates to capitalise upon. Though hard to quantify, it is an increasingly pivotal aspect of collective fluidity.

In football, those who can consistently beat their defender in one-on-one scenarios create this gravity and it was evident in last December’s Clásico in Spain, when Mateo Kovačić stayed with Lionel Messi, seemingly preferring Ivan Rakitić to dribble up the pitch before Luis Suárez’s opening goal.

It is no comparison in an individual sense, but the theory is the same – getting past his primary defender is Arzani’s strongest attribute, forcing the opposition to weigh their attention towards him and thus creating space for others.

This fundamental facet in modern attack is what City have otherwise lacked under Joyce and where Arzani differs even further. He can beat his defender and distribute the ball from a standing start.

Aside from his coolly taken penalty in a 2-2 draw with Newcastle on Thursday, Arzani’s dribbling ability was critical in City’s goals against Wellington, Adelaide and Perth. Left on an island for the opening 60 minutes, it also led to Ivan Vujica’s early substitution for the Jets.

Despite the smaller sample size, the diminutive attacker is towering over his team-mates from a statistical standpoint. Having only played 335 out of an available 1,620 minutes, Arzani already leads City in successful dribbles (31), accounting for 17.3% of the team’s total of 179.

The gulf when calculating per 90 minutes is gargantuan. Arzani’s successful dribble rate is 8.33 while the injured Nathaniel Atkinson is next best at 2.02. For key passes – passes directly leading to a shot – Arzani also leads the team at 2.15 with Luke Brattan second (1.64).

Yet, the failed dummy attempt against Adelaide is important for another reason. With Strain aggressively applying pressure to Arzani, space had opened for Atkinson to overlap into and run towards goal unattended. Atkinson was on his heels however, and City lost possession. Although Arzani’s fluid response to Strain’s coverage was the right play in principle, he was condemned for “schoolboy stuff” due to the outcome.

Joyce’s focus on outcomes is based on conservatism and defensive shape, meaning he started the season with Michael Jakobsen and Osama Malik – players who are arguably more natural at centre-back – in central midfield.

Although City were able to dictate tempo without the ball against Sydney in December, their lack of penetration was exposed during respective four and three-game winless streaks, when they had to chase the result in the second half.

Iacopo La Rocca’s injury, along with suspensions to Bart Schenkeveld and Malik, forced Brattan to return to central midfield from initially advanced positions, with Arzani only receiving minutes out of necessity. Ultimately, considering City’s personnel, he has been good enough to start throughout this season.

For some, Arzani’s part in Newcastle’s opening goal on Thursday night could be seen as an affirmation of tactical naivety, or lack of game sense as Joyce put it. Still, his positives far outweigh the negatives in context of collective impact for City. Although the teenager is far from the finished article, when does a primary focus on what he can’t do – as opposed to what he can – become stifling?

For Joyce, this question of balance could determine whether City have a legitimate chance for the ultimate outcome of silverware, or not.

 

https://www.theguardian.com/football/2018/jan/29/daniel-arzani-towers-over-his-melbourne-city-team-mates

Edited January 29, 2018 by Murfy1
Posted the article for clarity

[bt50]

23 minutes ago, Cityamatic said:

Not sure if this is the right spot for this, or the 'Wazza Out' thread...

https://www.theguardian.com/football/2018/jan/29/daniel-arzani-towers-over-his-melbourne-city-team-mates

Crap article imo.

[Embee]

3 minutes ago, bt50 said:

Crap article imo.

Whatever faults Warren may have, seeing fans and journos try to pick holes in his approach to youth development is hilarious IMO. The guy has more qualifications in that world than most.

[bt50]

14 minutes ago, Embee said:

Whatever faults Warren may have, seeing fans and journos try to pick holes in his approach to youth development is hilarious IMO. The guy has more qualifications in that world than most.

Indeed. So far everything Joyce's has said in regards to Arzani's faults has been clearly displayed, and in saying that, he's clearly performing well enough at A-League level to be getting frequently mentioned. If Joyce thinks being hard on Daniel will get the best out of him, and Daniel agrees and is playing well, who are us mugs to tell them otherwise.
Ultimate judgement of the management will come when he resigns or goes elsewhere i guess, but so far its been pretty much flawless imo.

[Jovan]

2 minutes ago, bt50 said:

Indeed. So far everything Joyce's has said in regards to Arzani's faults has been clearly displayed, and in saying that, he's clearly performing well enough at A-League level to be getting frequently mentioned. If Joyce thinks being hard on Daniel will get the best out of him, and Daniel agrees and is playing well, who are us mugs to tell them otherwise.
Ultimate judgement of the management will come when he resigns or goes elsewhere i guess, but so far its been pretty much flawless imo.

The conspiracists would argue that the only reason Joyce was appointed was to develop a couple players to a higher level to be able to sell on.

Now I'm not one, but he definitely here to develop young players and develop a team.

Time will tell how successful he and club as a whole will be. 

So even the suggestion that he could hamper Arzanis development is nonsense. 

[bt50]

3 minutes ago, Jovan said:

The conspiracists would argue that the only reason Joyce was appointed was to develop a couple players to a higher level to be able to sell on.

Now I'm not one, but he definitely here to develop young players and develop a team.

Time will tell how successful he and club as a whole will be. 

So even the suggestion that he could hamper Arzanis development is nonsense. 

Yep people can't have it both ways. I do think there has been a slight change in philosophy tbh, from having a very even and strong squad of 22, to a strong squad of 16 and supplemented with the nation's best youth. That may not be the case and its just a reflection of a few disgruntled older boys getting frustrated with no game time, but i suspect the success of Arzani and Atkinson and the prima facie youth knocking down the door to get a run in the senior team has perhaps shifted the view a little. Coupled with Joyce's youth record, it makes sense both from a trophy, fan-engagement and financial aspect imo.

[n i k o]

1 hour ago, Cityamatic said:

Not sure if this is the right spot for this, or the 'Wazza Out' thread...

https://www.theguardian.com/football/2018/jan/29/daniel-arzani-towers-over-his-melbourne-city-team-mates

I saw the article title in your post, saw the posts below you and confirmed my thoughts. Rubbish click bait article. The suggestion going around that Arzani would do well under Arnold, insinuating he'd somehow do a better job, is ludicrous. Yes he's helped develop and provided opportunity to some of Australia's talent in the past, however it simply doesn't compare to the number of players Joyce has helped develop over the span of a decade at Manchester. Chalk and cheese. 

[Dylan]

Clearly we can provide more stable overseas opportunities than any other club in the league. If he turns out to be that good, could easily be bought by man city and loaned to Genoa or one of the Dutch clubs that have ties to CFG. He would do well to go to the J league too IMO

[bt50]

11 minutes ago, Dylan said:

Clearly we can provide more stable overseas opportunities than any other club in the league. If he turns out to be that good, could easily be bought by man city and loaned to Genoa or one of the Dutch clubs that have ties to CFG. He would do well to go to the J league too IMO

IMO if he's wise he stays another season at the least and has clubs banging down the door for him a la Mooy. Increases his chances of regular game time then, as well as drives up his wage. A season on 150k in Melbourne v 400k overseas might be a sacrifice he needs to make in order to make the big $$ long term.

[fensaddler]

This article is utter crap.  Suggest as many as possible get on there and say so.

[bt50]

4 minutes ago, fensaddler said:

This article is utter crap.  Suggest as many as possible get on there and say so.

It's the Guardian. They'll probably block you for hate speech or similar.

[Murfy1]

I'd be interested to learn which parts of the article are "crap". Which sentences or ideas in that article are wrong or poorly argued?

[thisphantomfortress]

16 minutes ago, Murfy1 said:

I'd be interested to learn which parts of the article are "crap". Which sentences or ideas in that article are wrong or poorly argued?

The author seems to argue Arzani should be immune from criticism because he dribbles well. 

[bt50]

4 minutes ago, thisphantomfortress said:

The author seems to argue Arzani should be immune from criticism because he dribbles well. 

"City coach Warren Joyce seems to not fully appreciate what a talent he has in Arzani" According to what?

"Yet, the failed dummy attempt against Adelaide is important for another reason. With Strain aggressively applying pressure to Arzani, space had opened for Atkinson to overlap into and run towards goal unattended. Atkinson was on his heels however, and City lost possession. Although Arzani’s fluid response to Strain’s coverage was the right play in principle, he was condemned for “schoolboy stuff” due to the outcome." 1) massively overblown and no different to the sprays any player cops from Wazza, or any gaffer for that matter. 2) it wasnt the right play in principle as Atkinson was nowhere near it.

"Joyce’s focus on outcomes is based on conservatism and defensive shape, meaning he started the season with Michael Jakobsen and Osama Malik – players who are arguably more natural at centre-back – in central midfield." Good luck finding anyone that thinks it arguable Malik is a natural CB

"Ultimately, considering City’s personnel, he has been good enough to start throughout this season." Concede that's a matter of opinion, but i'd like to put it out there that the author more than likely hadnt seen him play even until the past month, so how can he be an accurate judge?

"Although the teenager is far from the finished article, when does a primary focus on what he can’t do – as opposed to what he can – become stifling?" The only people that are focusing on that primarily is the media. If it were Joyce then he still wouldnt be playing. Just because Joyce feels the need to keep Arzani grounded, doesnt mean his primary focus is on his weaknesses.

[Murfy1]

14 minutes ago, thisphantomfortress said:

The author seems to argue Arzani should be immune from criticism because he dribbles well. 

 

Does the author say that in the article? The closest quote I see is this:

 

"For some, Arzani’s part in Newcastle’s opening goal on Thursday night could be seen as an affirmation of tactical naivety, or lack of game sense as Joyce put it. Still, his positives far outweigh the negatives in context of collective impact for City. Although the teenager is far from the finished article, when does a primary focus on what he can’t do – as opposed to what he can – become stifling?"

 

I wouldn't argue against Arzani's positives "far outweigh[ing] the negatives in context of collective impact for City".

 

Anyway, I guess I'm just a bit pleased to see some more journalism about Melbourne City. Far too little is written about our club IMO. And I expect that the longer our team stays in the top 3 (and hopefully in higher positions), the more articles we'll see written about Melbourne City.

[Imtellingyou]

What are you debating really? Essay in English language classroom? 

Anyway, Arzani has already shown much more than teen likes Da Silva and Italiano. His skills and pace are above this league.  You don't learn enough in mediocrity.  By the age of twenty one can play in better leagues if good enough.  

The only good test so far were duels with Rodriguez who played higher level competition.  He is the only player who Arzani didn't dominate in one on one.

[fensaddler]

2 hours ago, Murfy1 said:

I'd be interested to learn which parts of the article are "crap". Which sentences or ideas in that article are wrong or poorly argued?

I've made my points below the line in the article itself, as have many others.

[malloy]

16 minutes ago, fensaddler said:

I've made my points below the line in the article itself, as have many others.

I think it was quite telling in the Newcastle game that when Arzani was subbed off he got the warm reception from Wazza (by his standards). 

I am of the firm belief that Wazza does appreciate what he has in Arzani, but he also knows that for Arzani to truly succeed the hard work has only begun.

Wazza has previously bemoaned the attitude of youth players at United who worked hard to break into senior team to then reduce their efforts in training because they 'had made it'.

[haz]

7 minutes ago, malloy said:

I think it was quite telling in the Newcastle game that when Arzani was subbed off he got the warm reception from Wazza (by his standards). 

I am of the firm belief that Wazza does appreciate what he has in Arzani, but he also knows that for Arzani to truly succeed the hard work has only begun.

Wazza has previously bemoaned the attitude of youth players at United who worked hard to break into senior team to then reduce their efforts in training because they 'had made it'.

I think Pogba haunts him, not that he (maybe) played a part in him leaving, but more so the constant dabbing and hair styles . If Arzani pulls a dab watch Waz suffer a PTSD episode on the bench.

Edited January 29, 2018 by haz

[jw1739]

IMO Joyce needs a dose of media training. There are ways of saying negative things about people without giving a free-kick to the media. It took him a fair while before he mentioned that McCormack was doing an extra session in the afternoons and was swimming morning and evening to improve his fitness. It took him nearly two-thirds of a season to say that his marquee player Budzinski was missing his GF and his son but was a good bloke to have around the club, and his "bad habits" comments about Arzani were stupid. He could have said what a promising and exciting player Arzani is and that the club and player were working in harmony to improve every aspect of his game even further and how much he looked forward to seeing the lad in a City jersey for seasons to come, whereas the quotes attributed to him can be construed to say almost the opposite.

And I don't want to start on what, as a club, we didn't say about the departures so far this season. IMO a lot of the negativity about what might or might not have happened to prompt these departures could have been avoided.

[Jacques Le Cube]

Arzani wants out, Joyce's comments are a clumsy attempt to make his departure not seem a big deal.

[thisphantomfortress]

Arzani clearly has an ego as big as his mentors. Wazza is keeping it in in check. We have no idea what is said behind closed doors but I back wazza on yoof. 

[rass]

31 minutes ago, Jacques Le Cube said:

Arzani wants out, Joyce's comments are a clumsy attempt to make his departure not seem a big deal.

And seriously, how do you know this?

[malloy]

3 minutes ago, rass said:

And seriously, how do you know this?

He just knows it to be true because he doesn't like Wazza.

[kingofhearts]

36 minutes ago, rass said:

And seriously, how do you know this?

I told him.

And i am pretty reliable as you know mate

[rass]

15 minutes ago, kingofhearts said:

I told him.

And i am pretty reliable as you know mate

Think this needs a new thread; know anyone who can start one? 😝

[Jacques Le Cube]

2 hours ago, malloy said:

He just knows it to be true because he doesn't like Wazza.

Its just a theory given that he has a 3 year deal on the table but is exploring other options, and its got nothing to do with my dislike for Wazza.

But thanks for remembering that I don't like him, I appreciate that.

[Kiro Kompiro]

Defending is for those who are rubbish at running with the ball glued to their feet and can't beat a training cone.  There are some players people go along way to watch play.  No-one goes a long way to watch a good defender.   JVS used to say "don't be afraid to express yourself" to the kids.  Wazza says : "Be a good defender"

Edited January 29, 2018 by Kiro Kompiro
end quote in wrong place changing meaning about JVS said.

[rass]

5 hours ago, Kiro Kompiro said:

Defending is for those who are rubbish at running with the ball glued to their feet and can't beat a training cone.  There are some players people go along way to watch play.  No-one goes a long way to watch a good defender.   JVS used to say "don't be afraid to express yourself to the kids".  Wazza says : "Be a good defender"

Hmmmmmm doesn't make you exempt from defending though does it?

It's a team sport. When the player you've been skinning all match with your dribbling decides to go forward and join in an opposition goal, I reckon your excuse of 'but I'm too good to help out with defending' probably won't cut it with your team mates will it.... 

I doubt Joyce is saying to stop the tekkers, more like 'don't forget your defensive duties'.

[fensaddler]

Thinking about this I can see it being difficult for us to keep him. The hype machine is already into overdrive, and there will be people already whispering in his ear about how much he is worth, and themselves eyeing the cut they will get. In a salary capped league we haven't a hope of matching the sort of figures that will be dangled in front of him.  His sound long term development may well be served by another year in the HAL, which in turn will deliver an international call up if he maintains current development (and that will make it much easier to get the visa he would need to play in Europe). However I suspect a big money offer from an Asian club will emerge, and he'll head off following the money. It may work for him, but it's a much bigger risk if he doesn't find the right support and development structure.

[Kiro Kompiro]

5 hours ago, rass said:

Hmmmmmm doesn't make you exempt from defending though does it?

It's a team sport. When the player you've been skinning all match with your dribbling decides to go forward and join in an opposition goal, I reckon your excuse of 'but I'm too good to help out with defending' probably won't cut it with your team mates will it.... 

I doubt Joyce is saying to stop the tekkers, more like 'don't forget your defensive duties'.

I think it does.  defending is for plebs who actually do very little footballing with their foot.  That's why they're defenders.  No junior wants to grow up to be a CB.

 How much defending do Ozil, Messi, Ronaldo do?

If seven defenders plus a keeper can't defend a goal then they're not doing their job.

[playmaker]

1 hour ago, Kiro Kompiro said:

I think it does.  defending is for plebs who actually do very little footballing with their foot.  That's why they're defenders.  No junior wants to grow up to be a CB.

 How much defending do Ozil, Messi, Ronaldo do?

If seven defenders plus a keeper can't defend a goal then they're not doing their job.

Basically a team defending an attack should always have a numerical advantage, so when needed ALL players must defend.

And yes, the 3 players you mentioned all do it when required.

[jw1739]

Club website:

After an impressive month in the A-League, young gun Daniel Arzani has been named as the Young Footballer of the Month for January.

The winger has taken the league by storm, making ten key passes, creating two assists and picking up his first A-League goal against Newcastle from the spot in a brilliant break-out period.

It’s not only the stats that have been impressive but his aggressive, positive drive has brought him into the spotlight and created fear amongst opposition defences with the starlet completing 31 successful dribbles, the most from any Melbourne City player this season.

Arzani is keen to continue his impressive form but knows there is still a long way to go in his development.

“It’s up to the coach, I’ve just got to make sure I work as hard as I can,” Arzani said.

“City is one of the most advanced clubs in the way they think about young players. Whoever is performing at their best gets the chance to play.”

City Head Coach Warren Joyce has also lauded the Iranian-born winger, saying he’s got something special to offer his side.

“We’ve got to nurture his talent. He’s got ‘x-factor, qualities. Obviously I’ve been around a lot of ‘x-factor’ footballers in my coaching career and he’s a good and intelligent kid”

January’s Young Footballer of the Month award doubles up as a nomination for the Young Footballer of the Year award as he joins Daniel De Silva, Joey Champness and teammate Bruce Kamau on the shortlist.

[n i k o]

"We’ve got to nurture his talent. He’s got ‘x-factor, qualities. Obviously I’ve been around a lot of ‘x-factor’ footballers in my coaching career and he’s a good and intelligent kid”

Wish Joyce would stop being so damn bloody negative