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Jimmy

AFL 2016 Season

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NewConvert    708
2 hours ago, hedaik said:

Looking forward to seeing Apeness

So what happens when the bombers win then? Will Lyon still be coach tomorrow morning? Will Freo supporters boo the team? How will they treat Crowley?

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hedaik    2,630
35 minutes ago, NewConvert said:

So what happens when the bombers win then? Will Lyon still be coach tomorrow morning? Will Freo supporters boo the team? How will they treat Crowley?

Lyon is signed to 2020 to rebuild the team. Only JVS is more untouchable than the boss at the moment.

I hope the team nor Crowley is bood. Just drug pusher woosha hopefully.

 

Edited by hedaik
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cadete    6,068
On 6/4/2016 at 4:25 PM, hedaik said:

Lyon is signed to 2020 to rebuild the team. Only JVS is more untouchable than the boss at the moment.

I hope the team nor Crowley is bood. Just drug pusher woosha hopefully.

 

So the club is backing a person noted for being the coach most infamous for only coaching for the short term... to rebuild an entire side.

Yeah - That really is as dumb as us still having JVS as our manager.

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9 minutes ago, cadete said:

So the club is backing a person noted for being the coach most infamous for only coaching for the short term... to rebuild an entire side.

Yeah - That really is as dumb as us still having JVS as our manager.

Passionately hate Lyon. Along with Hardwick I find him the biggest pretender of a coach 

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hedaik    2,630
1 hour ago, cadete said:

So the club is backing a person noted for being the coach most infamous for only coaching for the short term... to rebuild an entire side.

 He hasn't even been given the opportunity to rebuild a side, if you're going to bag out Fremantle for having Lyon rebuild a team when he hasn't had the opportunity to, then you may as well also bag out Brendon Bolton, Ken Hinkley or any other new AFL coach who is brought in for a rebuild. 

 

1 hour ago, thisphantomfortress said:

Passionately hate Lyon. Along with Hardwick I find him the biggest pretender of a coach 

Most successful St Kilda coach ever in terms of win percentage, and most successful Fremantle coach. Both teams he lead to grand finals weren't the best two teams in those years in my opinion. You could almost say we weren't even in the top 4 teams on paper last season and we finished on top. Im happy to have him. 

And damn I was proud to see the Freo fans give Crowley a good reception. 

Edited by hedaik
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cadete    6,068
14 hours ago, hedaik said:

 He hasn't even been given the opportunity to rebuild a side, if you're going to bag out Fremantle for having Lyon rebuild a team when he hasn't had the opportunity to, then you may as well also bag out Brendon Bolton, Ken Hinkley or any other new AFL coach who is brought in for a rebuild. 

 

Most successful St Kilda coach ever in terms of win percentage, and most successful Fremantle coach. Both teams he lead to grand finals weren't the best two teams in those years in my opinion. You could almost say we weren't even in the top 4 teams on paper last season and we finished on top. Im happy to have him. 

And damn I was proud to see the Freo fans give Crowley a good reception. 

Um, Lyon did have the opportunity to rebuild a club at St Kilda but he knew he had fucked up the entire place with his completely short term thinking that he moved on to you blokes.

I also dont get your point about St Kilda overachieving under Lyon as they had more top draft picks (And this was picks in the era of proper modern drafting) than any other team in the period when they made the Grand Finals. Also importantly alongside this almost all of his recruiting in between seasons was to boost the team in short term with Top Up Players. 

He has also kept guys on at Freo for way too long... too the point that certain player's injuries have been a permanent news story for three years now. Constantly we hear about whether Freo can just get Player X, Y or Z back for the finals... and of course they barely ever do because the blokes literally are my age and all should have retired a couple of years ago.

If Lyon was at East Fremantle and kept doing his "So close but so far away" crap he would have been sacked at the end of last season... that is just a fact.

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hedaik    2,630
1 hour ago, cadete said:

Um, Lyon did have the opportunity to rebuild a club at St Kilda but he knew he had fucked up the entire place with his completely short term thinking that he moved on to you blokes.

Yes Im sure the end of an era aspect played a part, but St Kilda were dragging out the contract extension negotiations with Lyon, at the same time he was almost bankrupt from investments he had made, and Fremantles generous offer of 1.5 million a year to take over a team in their prime would have been too hard to say no to. To say he purely left St Kilda because he didnt want to rebuild them is a bit simplistic. 

1 hour ago, cadete said:

I also dont get your point about St Kilda overachieving under Lyon as they had more top draft picks (And this was picks in the era of proper modern drafting) than any other team in the period when they made the Grand Finals. Also importantly alongside this almost all of his recruiting in between seasons was to boost the team in short term with Top Up Players. 

Eh a lot of commentary at the time was around St Kilda overachieving. I don't think on paper they had the best team going around and Lyons tactics to me clearly got the team further than they deserved. I also don't have any problems with teams going for short term glory to sacrifice their long term chances, especially for a club like St Kilda that have been starved for success for so long and that were so agonisingly short of winning a premiership. Supporters of struggling clubs just want to be able to see 1 premiership in their lifetime, if it means going back to how things have been for the last 30 years just to see their team lift the cup then so be it. 

1 hour ago, cadete said:

He has also kept guys on at Freo for way too long... too the point that certain player's injuries have been a permanent news story for three years now. Constantly we hear about whether Freo can just get Player X, Y or Z back for the finals... and of course they barely ever do because the blokes literally are my age and all should have retired a couple of years ago.

Disagree again. Who replaces McPharlin, Pavlich or Sandilands in the 2013 Grand Final we lost by 15 points? Its easy to say players have stayed on for too long for a distance, but when you have no young players that can replace them nor do a better job in Fremantles only GF in 20 years then that argument doesnt make any sense to me. The two players that let us down on that day, Ballantyne and Fyfe, are both either in their prime or considered to be youngsters anyway. I had Fremantle struggling to make the top 4 last year, so I had no issues with Lyon used the players he did to make one last ditch attempt at winning a premiership. 

1 hour ago, cadete said:

If Lyon was at East Fremantle and kept doing his "So close but so far away" crap he would have been sacked at the end of last season... that is just a fact.

Lyons too classy to coach a team at a ground called Atom Stadium, although would be an upgrade from having to give press conferences from the toilets in Kardinya Park. We've had a history of dud coaches, Im happy to keep the one decent coach we've had to rebuild our team. 

Edited by hedaik

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cadete    6,068
29 minutes ago, hedaik said:

Yes Im sure the end of an era aspect played a part, but St Kilda were dragging out the contract extension negotiations with Lyon, at the same time he was almost bankrupt from investments he had made, and Fremantles generous offer of 1.5 million a year to take over a team in their prime would have been too hard to say no to. To say he purely left St Kilda because he didnt want to rebuild them is a bit simplistic. 

Eh a lot of commentary at the time was around St Kilda overachieving. I don't think on paper they had the best team going around and Lyons tactics to me clearly got the team further than they deserved. I also don't have any problems with teams going for short term glory to sacrifice their long term chances, especially for a club like St Kilda that have been starved for success for so long and that were so agonisingly short of winning a premiership. Supporters of struggling clubs just want to be able to see 1 premiership in their lifetime, if it means going back to how things have been for the last 30 years just to see their team lift the cup then so be it. 

Disagree again. Who replaces McPharlin, Pavlich or Sandilands in the 2013 Grand Final we lost by 15 points? Its easy to say players have stayed on for too long for a distance, but when you have no young players that can replace them nor do a better job in Fremantles only GF in 20 years then that argument doesnt make any sense to me. The two players that let us down on that day, Ballantyne and Fyfe, are both either in their prime or considered to be youngsters anyway. I had Fremantle struggling to make the top 4 last year, so I had no issues with Lyon used the players he did to make one last ditch attempt at winning a premiership. 

Lyons too classy to coach a team at a ground called Atom Stadium

LOL - At you calling Lyons as too classy for WA's most successful league club in East Fremantle... in Premierships, and Finals Appearances. 

This whole conversation about you defending someone on the basis that "He came pretty close" is a perfect example of the difference between a Easts fan and South fan.

Edited by cadete

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bt50    3,251
8 minutes ago, cadete said:

LOL - At you calling Lyons being too classy for WA's most successful league club in East Fremantle... in Premierships, and Finals Appearances.

This whole conversation about you defending someone on the basis that "He came pretty close" is a perfect example of the difference between a Easts fan and South fan.

Surely you can acknowledge that there is a massive difference to coaching a success starved club like StKilda, the Dogs, Melbourne or Freo than it is to a West Coast, Hawthorn or Geelong.

It's all well and good to build sustainably, but if it gets to the crunch, particularly so at those clubs, the pressure has to be on to give yourself the best possible chance in that given year. Geelong and Hawthorn have had the luxury of rebuilding on the run in the last decade because they had no a lot less pressure to get the elusive flag.

Edited by bt50

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cadete    6,068
1 minute ago, bt50 said:

Surely you can acknowledge that there is a massive difference to coaching a success starved club like StKilda, the Dogs, Melbourne or Freo than it is to a West Coast, Hawthorn or Geelong.

It's all well and good to build sustainably, but if it gets to the crunch, particularly so at those clubs, the pressure has to be on to give yourself the best possible chance in that given year. Geelong and Hawthorn have had the luxury of rebuilding on the run in the last decade because they had no a lot less pressure to get the elusive flag.

I can obviously see the difference in mentality... but these one last big roll of the dice moves from such club's have basically been proven as something that never works in Modern Football.

Therefore I dont see why it should even be tried anymore... all clubs regardless of where they are on the ladder should be looking short and long term and Lyon has shown an inability to the later.

 

 

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bt50    3,251
3 minutes ago, cadete said:

I can obviously see the difference in mentality... but these one last big roll of the dice moves from such club's have basically been proven as something that never works in Modern Football.

Therefore I dont see why it should even be tried anymore... all clubs regardless of where they are on the ladder should be looking short and long term and Lyon has shown an inability to the later.

 

 

Had the ball bounced half normally in the last minute you'd have to say it would have worked. 
Look re Lyon i largely agree with you that he's always been a short term focused coach. That's probably not to say he isnt capable of regenerating the list though, he's never tried it. There's also the role of the list manager in both cases who obviously left a bit to be desired. Externally its hard to know exactly how much role each played in the eventual downfall of their clubs.
It's still a wait and see job for me.

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cadete    6,068
3 minutes ago, bt50 said:

Had the ball bounced half normally in the last minute you'd have to say it would have worked. 
Look re Lyon i largely agree with you that he's always been a short term focused coach. That's probably not to say he isnt capable of regenerating the list though, he's never tried it. There's also the role of the list manager in both cases who obviously left a bit to be desired. Externally its hard to know exactly how much role each played in the eventual downfall of their clubs.
It's still a wait and see job for me.

But it didn't... and then they got flogged the next week.

But playing hypotheticals is silly... if Bomber Thompson had just quit/moved to Essendon earlier and was not such a dick to Gazza then the Geelong Squad would not of been so splintered that year and we would have at least won that first final against St Kilda which we only lost by a dicey free kick.

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Shahanga    3,507

I reckon McGuire will have to go with Buckley. His appointment (with no experience) was silly, the dismissal of a champion coach (to make way for a novice) weird and the failure to act in the light of a mountain of evidence, appalling.

Why do sporting organisations countinue to appoint champion players with no coaching experience when there is bucket loads of evidence that it doesn't work?

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cadete    6,068
2 hours ago, Shahanga said:

I reckon McGuire will have to go with Buckley. His appointment (with no experience) was silly, the dismissal of a champion coach (to make way for a novice) weird and the failure to act in the light of a mountain of evidence, appalling.

Why do sporting organisations countinue to appoint champion players with no coaching experience when there is bucket loads of evidence that it doesn't work?

Stick to the plan... Stick to the plan...

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cadete    6,068

I used to spend all my time when we were good calling other clubs' pretenders... now I support the biggest pretenders in the league.

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11 minutes ago, cadete said:

I used to spend all my time when we were good calling other clubs' pretenders... now I support the biggest pretenders in the league.

Been a shit season objectively. Only real surprise has been the demise of freo 

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Jimmy    3,161
3 minutes ago, thisphantomfortress said:

Only real surprise has been the demise of freo 

Until the pies win the flag from 8th.

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kingofhearts    3,271
28 minutes ago, cadete said:

I used to spend all my time when we were good calling other clubs' pretenders... now I support the biggest pretenders in the league.

Yeah must be hard sitting in the top 4 with another finals campaign guaranteed... we all shed a tear for you mate :(

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cadete    6,068
4 hours ago, kingofhearts said:

Yeah must be hard sitting in the top 4 with another finals campaign guaranteed... we all shed a tear for you mate :(

Its all relative King of "The Dont Front Up" Hearts...to me the whole "Shed a Tear" thing its a pretty dumb line for example like when PPL say it to Celtic or Gers fans who get annoyed after drawing in Dundee even though reality is that this one result can literally cost your side the league to your bitter opponent.

So in AFL while you are used to a club that cheats the Salary Cap and pops a few peptides I am used to one that for almost ten years has generally played half decent football the majority of the time and never of finished lower than twelfth since I have supported them.

Edited by cadete
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Thrillhouse    843

should of spanked those pretenders today by about 10 goals

definitely worst season ever, whole top 8 is inconsistent, hawthorn having already won 3 flags in a row are somehow 2 games clear despite getting lucky in probly just about half the games this season and haven't been convincing at all, geelong struggling to beat a depleted dogs last night, swans shit when buddy doesn't kick a bag

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1 hour ago, Kiro Kompiro said:

Seriously believe the 'Dogs could have taken it this year if they got to fielding even remotely their best.  So many outs.

Agree, though I do think Hawks would get them in a gf. Beverage signing is promising I think it will be a few good years for Footscray 

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MHFCRC    134
5 hours ago, Kiro Kompiro said:

Seriously believe the 'Dogs could have taken it this year if they got to fielding even remotely their best.  So many outs.

Still thought/think we are a year short.. only thing is no one has really put their hand up this year, so it may have been interesting. More excited for next year anyways, although it sucks to know 2 players are going to miss pretty much the whole season already. 

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Nate    2,567

the season itself has been kind of meh, but the finals series is going to be one of the greatest of all time imo

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bt50    3,251

I actually think the Dogs are a decent way off until they get a competent key forward. History shows its pretty much impossible to win one without one.
They'll be competitive in and around the top 4 mark for the next few seasons but not quite good enough to get there.

FWIW I think the Giants will win it this year if they can finish top 2, and will go on to a pretty lengthy period as a major contender over the next 5-6 years.

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MHFCRC    134
1 hour ago, bt50 said:

I actually think the Dogs are a decent way off until they get a competent key forward. History shows its pretty much impossible to win one without one.
They'll be competitive in and around the top 4 mark for the next few seasons but not quite good enough to get there.

FWIW I think the Giants will win it this year if they can finish top 2, and will go on to a pretty lengthy period as a major contender over the next 5-6 years.

Still more than hopeful for Boyd, and having Crameri back next year to take some attention off him and Stringer will make a big difference. 

Would say Hawthorn won't have one for the rest of the year, but that's balanced out by 5-6 very good forwards of various heights and style. 

Agree that the finals series should be very very good. Top 8 well clear of the rest for a reason

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bt50    3,251
48 minutes ago, MHFCRC said:

Still more than hopeful for Boyd, and having Crameri back next year to take some attention off him and Stringer will make a big difference. 

Would say Hawthorn won't have one for the rest of the year, but that's balanced out by 5-6 very good forwards of various heights and style. 

Agree that the finals series should be very very good. Top 8 well clear of the rest for a reason

Yeh Hawthorn have done remarkably well to get through the season without a bonafide key forward. We'll wait and see I guess, but i dont think they'll win it for that reason.

Agree it will be a terrific finals series, I think Adelaide or Sydney could definitely win it from outside the 4 this year, and perhaps North if they dont have to travel, which is unlikely. For mine I dont think West Coast, because theyre not good enough, and Dogs due to injuries and the above post can't win it however both are very capable of perhaps making a prelim, as are any of the top 8 sides. 

My tip however, is whoever finishes 2nd tbh.

Edited by bt50

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cadete    6,068

This Bye Week is bloody stupid...

They should have it a week before the Grand Final so we can have the best possible sides playing in the biggest match of the year and not before the finals so all the teams can regroup. It takes away a lot of the advantages the Higher Ranked Sides used to get with their Home Finals.

Also I knew the Gods would punish me when I dared to watch Collingwood and hope they would win yesterday afternoon... I deserved that result for such a foul act.

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