dr lime Posted November 25, 2015 Report Share Posted November 25, 2015 3 hours ago, belaguttman said: This is an issue of fairness and justice, its an issue that applies to all fans who enter a stadium so it applies as much to us as it does to the visitors. If people commit an offence then they should be charged and have an option of a day in Court. The present process is somewhat arbitrary and has no right of appeal.The second issue of breach of privacy should offend us all, it isn't just an issue for people on the list or even just for football supporters. The JVS issue is a seperate issue and also more than worthy of our attention. So write to your local MP or go and get a law degree and fight injustice in the courts. If you are looking for justice in football you will be sadly and regularly disappointed. Just look at the refereeing.. there is NO JUSTICE!.. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Murfy1 Posted November 25, 2015 Report Share Posted November 25, 2015 (edited) It must be said, it's doubtful the last "silent protest" was effective. No one in the mainstream media knew what it was about, whether supporters were protesting against the team, the coach, the club's administrators or the club's ownership. There was zero understanding that it was about dissatisfaction over multiple seasons, and the media just guessed it was a protest about that season. And no one really had any idea what exactly the supporters wanted. In short, being silent is a really bad and ineffective way to try and communicate a message. Even Melbourne Victory's active support (North Terrace) and WSW's active support (WSW), who were much more effected by these issues for supporters, have clearly stated that "for the time we are in the stadium, we will give our 100% support to our soldiers on the pitch". So they are doing their normal supporting, except for a brief "walk out at a specific moment during the match". I find it bizarre that Melbourne City supporters would support their team less than Victory's and WSW's supporters, despite being a lot less effected than their supporters. And remember the last time active supporters stopped supporting the team, with the silent protest. The team played some of the most diabolical football I've ever seen at AAMI park, and conceded 2 incredibly weak goals against Adelaide in the first 15 minutes. Given our team's up and down form, I believe it's very possible that a morgue-like atmosphere at AAMI could directly contribute to another poor home performance, and possibly even a third straight horror show loss at home. So all up this looks like an everyone loses idea to me. If you want to communicate a message, communicate something, don't stay silent, leave your seating area or walkout. You lose less face changing from a bad strategy to a good one, rather than doubling down on a bad strategy, so I highly recommend a rethink. Edited November 25, 2015 by Murfy1 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andrew Edmonds Posted November 25, 2015 Report Share Posted November 25, 2015 I know there's a protest, but we should do this. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
n i k o Posted November 25, 2015 Report Share Posted November 25, 2015 I think that with all information that has come out I don't think a protest similar to what the tards and rbb are planning is the right way for the Melburnians. I still believe the FFA have to answer for them not protecting the information of people they provide to thrid parties plus a host of other things. But this article below is why now, I don't think the protest is the best way forward. We will appear to be backing the people that are willing to do things like this: FFA: Stop sending Rebecca Wilson death threats Football Federation Australia (FFA) has had to urge football fans to refrain from sending death threats to Daily Telegraph journalist Rebecca Wilson. Wilson has received a number of e-mails since publishing an article on Sunday that named and shamed the alleged 198 members of FFA's ban list. However, a small minority of those crossed the line by threatening the Sydney-based journalist. Wilson claimed on Sky News on Tuesday that a number of messages she received made her break down into tears. FFA were forced to release a bizarre statement on Wednesday to urge football fans around the country to end threats sent to Wilson. "FFA has become aware that Sunday Telegraph journalist Rebecca Wilson has recieved physical and death threats," the statement read. "While these are matters for Police, FFA has called for these threats to cease." Read more at http://www.fourfourtwo.com/au/news/ffa-stop-sending-rebecca-wilson-death-threats#ctrHWoTqlUMjAWjH.99 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shahanga Posted November 25, 2015 Report Share Posted November 25, 2015 6 minutes ago, n i k o said: I think that with all information that has come out I don't think a protest similar to what the tards and rbb are planning is the right way for the Melburnians. I still believe the FFA have to answer for them not protecting the information of people they provide to thrid parties plus a host of other things. But this article below is why now, I don't think the protest is the best way forward. We will appear to be backing the people that are willing to do things like this: FFA: Stop sending Rebecca Wilson death threats Football Federation Australia (FFA) has had to urge football fans to refrain from sending death threats to Daily Telegraph journalist Rebecca Wilson. Wilson has received a number of e-mails since publishing an article on Sunday that named and shamed the alleged 198 members of FFA's ban list. However, a small minority of those crossed the line by threatening the Sydney-based journalist. Wilson claimed on Sky News on Tuesday that a number of messages she received made her break down into tears. FFA were forced to release a bizarre statement on Wednesday to urge football fans around the country to end threats sent to Wilson. "FFA has become aware that Sunday Telegraph journalist Rebecca Wilson has recieved physical and death threats," the statement read. "While these are matters for Police, FFA has called for these threats to cease." Read more at http://www.fourfourtwo.com/au/news/ffa-stop-sending-rebecca-wilson-death-threats#ctrHWoTqlUMjAWjH.99 .............. For fucks sake. All this does is confirm the view of non aligned people that she was right. Plays straight into the hands of football's critics. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NuggetsMcGreggor Posted November 25, 2015 Report Share Posted November 25, 2015 Published the death threats yet? 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
belaguttman Posted November 25, 2015 Report Share Posted November 25, 2015 2 hours ago, dr lime said: So write to your local MP or go and get a law degree and fight injustice in the courts. If you are looking for justice in football you will be sadly and regularly disappointed. Just look at the refereeing.. there is NO JUSTICE!.. That's exactly why we should be demanding it rather than rolling over and accepting it 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NewConvert Posted November 25, 2015 Report Share Posted November 25, 2015 1 hour ago, n i k o said: I think that with all information that has come out I don't think a protest similar to what the tards and rbb are planning is the right way for the Melburnians. I still believe the FFA have to answer for them not protecting the information of people they provide to thrid parties plus a host of other things. But this article below is why now, I don't think the protest is the best way forward. We will appear to be backing the people that are willing to do things like this: FFA: Stop sending Rebecca Wilson death threats Football Federation Australia (FFA) has had to urge football fans to refrain from sending death threats to Daily Telegraph journalist Rebecca Wilson. Wilson has received a number of e-mails since publishing an article on Sunday that named and shamed the alleged 198 members of FFA's ban list. However, a small minority of those crossed the line by threatening the Sydney-based journalist. Wilson claimed on Sky News on Tuesday that a number of messages she received made her break down into tears. FFA were forced to release a bizarre statement on Wednesday to urge football fans around the country to end threats sent to Wilson. "FFA has become aware that Sunday Telegraph journalist Rebecca Wilson has recieved physical and death threats," the statement read. "While these are matters for Police, FFA has called for these threats to cease." Read more at http://www.fourfourtwo.com/au/news/ffa-stop-sending-rebecca-wilson-death-threats#ctrHWoTqlUMjAWjH.99 I will sceptically believe this when the police publicly verify the existence of such threats and they publish these threats. After all is not like News Ltd are ever truthful about anything. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kingofhearts Posted November 25, 2015 Report Share Posted November 25, 2015 13 hours ago, belaguttman said: The issue is that these people have been publicly identified and named and accused despite almost all of them never having been charged with a crime, tried or convicted by a Court. They have been identified by ground security, presumably sometimes from out of a crowd, and the banning process is not open to examination nor appeal. Clearly at least one error of identity has occurred. This information has then been leaked, breaching privacy laws and unnecessarily published in full to suit other political agendas. If someone has committed a crime, arrest them, charge them and try them in an open Court. While i don't agree with the photo's being published you know what prevents this whole situation? Active supporter groups behaving properly Has there even been any action taken by the RBB, NT or any other terrance in trying to curb this type of anti soccer behaviour? How about a bit of self police by these larger Terrances? These terrances enable people to behave poorly, and then when they get in trouble they cry foul. Are we just going to cry foul about this article or instead take a step back and think "hang on a minute, this is unacceptable behaviour, what's the best way to remedy this?" Of course not because from the herald sun to the illumnati there is a massive conspiracy out to get "aussie sokkah" (even though they don't need to write there own stories, we give them enough as it is to fuel the fire of these anti soccer agendas) And why should bela these people deserve a chance to appeal? You seem to talk about one error of identity but outside of that do you have any proof that all these people are innocent or are currently going through an appeals process? If police are fucking up so bad that their constantly getting the wrong people, fire the cunts! As long as you behave at the soccer you don't ever have to worry about any of your details being published in the paper. 10/10 article, would read again 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gundam Posted November 25, 2015 Report Share Posted November 25, 2015 56 minutes ago, NewConvert said: I will sceptically believe this when the police publicly verify the existence of such threats and they publish these threats. After all is not like News Ltd are ever truthful about anything. People who send death threats are criminals. Criminals have no rights to privacy. Publish their photos and the death threats. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thisphantomfortress Posted November 25, 2015 Author Report Share Posted November 25, 2015 Anyone sending death threats is a fucking idiot 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bt50 Posted November 25, 2015 Report Share Posted November 25, 2015 7 hours ago, kingofhearts said: While i don't agree with the photo's being published you know what prevents this whole situation? Active supporter groups behaving properly Has there even been any action taken by the RBB, NT or any other terrance in trying to curb this type of anti soccer behaviour? How about a bit of self police by these larger Terrances? These terrances enable people to behave poorly, and then when they get in trouble they cry foul. Are we just going to cry foul about this article or instead take a step back and think "hang on a minute, this is unacceptable behaviour, what's the best way to remedy this?" Of course not because from the herald sun to the illumnati there is a massive conspiracy out to get "aussie sokkah" (even though they don't need to write there own stories, we give them enough as it is to fuel the fire of these anti soccer agendas) And why should bela these people deserve a chance to appeal? You seem to talk about one error of identity but outside of that do you have any proof that all these people are innocent or are currently going through an appeals process? If police are fucking up so bad that their constantly getting the wrong people, fire the cunts! As long as you behave at the soccer you don't ever have to worry about any of your details being published in the paper. 10/10 article, would read again You have absolutely no idea what you're talking about 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tommykins Posted November 25, 2015 Report Share Posted November 25, 2015 7 hours ago, kingofhearts said: How about a bit of self police by these larger Terrances? Singling out fat people named Terrance will get up no where. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
belaguttman Posted November 25, 2015 Report Share Posted November 25, 2015 @kingofhearts I certainly agree with the expectation that fans should behave during matches and that sanctions should result from misbehaviour. Unless we all believe that security teams have not made a singe error in identifying 198 miscreants from a crowd of active supporters then they should have natural justice with a right of appeal. Currently the only people who have no right to hear the evidence against them nor have a right of appeal are asylum seekers and football fans. Of course there's no proof that any of the fans have been mistakenly identified, that is the point, there's also no proof that any of them have been correctly identified for the same reason. An appeal process allows allegations to be tested, if found guilty then they should be excluded. The second issue is one of privacy. I believe that very few of these people have been charged with a crime and perhaps only 1 that I know of has been convicted. If this is the case then on what basis have these identities and photos been published? Some of these people are minors, even the Childrens Court surpasses their identity from public reporting in situations where young people have been charged and convicted. The real story here is that there is a list of excluded people in football and probably all other sports but that this list has been prepared without a proper process of evidence and appeal. The other issue is really how many other sports bother at all, I find it hard to believe that cricket puts any effort into excluding fans who cause trouble 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
belaguttman Posted November 25, 2015 Report Share Posted November 25, 2015 8 hours ago, gundam said: People who send death threats are criminals. Criminals have no rights to privacy. Publish their photos and the death threats. There have been alleged death threats, once again let the allegation be examined by Police, people charged if this is the case and then have the evidence tested in Court. If they are found guilty, then they are criminals. Rebecca Wilson doesn't have a great record for truthfulness and neither does her employer as @NewConvert says Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hedaik Posted November 25, 2015 Report Share Posted November 25, 2015 26 minutes ago, belaguttman said: @kingofhearts I certainly agree with the expectation that fans should behave during matches and that sanctions should result from misbehaviour. Unless we all believe that security teams have not made a singe error in identifying 198 miscreants from a crowd of active supporters then they should have natural justice with a right of appeal. Currently the only people who have no right to hear the evidence against them nor have a right of appeal are asylum seekers and football fans. Of course there's no proof that any of the fans have been mistakenly identified, that is the point, there's also no proof that any of them have been correctly identified for the same reason. An appeal process allows allegations to be tested, if found guilty then they should be excluded. The second issue is one of privacy. I believe that very few of these people have been charged with a crime and perhaps only 1 that I know of has been convicted. If this is the case then on what basis have these identities and photos been published? Some of these people are minors, even the Childrens Court surpasses their identity from public reporting in situations where young people have been charged and convicted. The real story here is that there is a list of excluded people in football and probably all other sports but that this list has been prepared without a proper process of evidence and appeal. The other issue is really how many other sports bother at all, I find it hard to believe that cricket puts any effort into excluding fans who cause trouble I don't really think anybody disagrees with you generally, the argument against is whether its worth a 90 minute protest of silence or not. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
belaguttman Posted November 25, 2015 Report Share Posted November 25, 2015 It's certainly worth a protest, only the JVS issue is worth 90 minutes though and a protest of absence is as mystifying to me as it is to many others Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
morphine Posted November 25, 2015 Report Share Posted November 25, 2015 Congratulations guys, you did it! First article written up about you - on the A-League Banter Facebook page! A proud moment I'm sure 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
morphine Posted November 25, 2015 Report Share Posted November 25, 2015 Listening to Rebecca Wilson speak, it's clear she has no idea. BUT the failings of RBB and NT have created this, and sadly Melburnians have bought in. When this list was published, it should've been seen as an opportunity for Active to distance themselves from violence. Rightly or wrongly, Wilson is right in saying that the reason people don't go to the soccer is because they don't feel safe. No matter how you feel about that (everyone that goes already, including me, have never felt anything other than comfortable) it's the truth. That's the perception to the uninitiated and perception is reality. All of these unambiguous protests, or protesting to find who the leak was, or sending death threats or other stupid shit, just all of this carry on is completely playing up to the characterization, as others have said. It should have been a chance to take the higher road and acted responsibly, distancing ourselves from criminality. Again, rightly or wrongly, a protest now will only cause more damage to the perception. What is potentially the saddest part is that I feel decision makers within Melburnians won't be brave enough to take the right action, as they'd rather not tarnish their 'cred' with other Active groups and within the 'Ultras' scene. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
belaguttman Posted November 25, 2015 Report Share Posted November 25, 2015 Agree Morphine although to be fair active supporter groups have distanced themselves from violence in their media statements. The form of the protests are the real problem in their response 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jw1739 Posted November 25, 2015 Report Share Posted November 25, 2015 12. Surveillance – For the safety and security of Patrons and staff, surveillance cameras may be operating in and around the Venue. All persons entering the Venue consent to having their image recorded and held for a specified period. In the event of an incident, any footage obtained may be provided to FFA, A-League Clubs, police and contracted security personnel, and used to prosecute or support the implementation of a ban on a person, or for other law enforcement purposes. 14. Photographs and Broadcasts – Any photographs or recordings of video, audio or audio-video material taken within the Venue may be used only for private, personal, non-commercial and non-promotional purposes. Making, distributing or otherwise disseminating any sounds, image, results, broadcasts, commentary, news reports or statistics by any means or device (including mobile phone or tablet) or assisting any person in these activities, is prohibited unless authorised or solely for private, personal, non-commercial and non-promotional purposes. 15. Image Release – Patrons consent to the recording (by any means at or about the Venue) and perpetual use of their voice, image or likeness in any form or medium, including as part of any broadcast or recording of a match and for any other commercial purposes (including in advertising and promotional materials) without compensation. FFA is the sole legal and beneficial owner of copyright and other intellectual property rights (including future rights) subsisting in any photographs or recordings of video, audio or audio-video material taken within a Venue. Patrons consent on an irrevocable worldwide and perpetual basis to FFA (and its nominees) using by any means, in any format, any such photographs, recordings or other works made in breach of these Terms of Admission. The above are extracted from the following document (Hyundai A-League Conditions of Admission):http://www.footballaustralia.com.au/dct/ffa-dtc-performgroup-eu-west-1/FFA%20A-League%20Terms%20of%20Admission%20-%20August%202014_1qd4zkngkohpo1hx50s46hez8f.pdf My view is that FFA is the ultimate controlling body over all images taken at an A-League match, and that therefore either by an error of omission or commission it has allowed certain images to find their way into the hands of someone who should not have had access to them. For FFA/Gallop to try and distance itself/himself from the current situation is quite wrong. On protests - surely it's for people to make an informed decision based on their personal values? If we really are supporters of Melbourne City though, I would think that the last thing we want to do right now is to pull our club further into the mire by doing something that ultimately won't help our club at all. My life experiences tell me that when challenged most people in the wrong simply dig their heels in and refuse to budge, and I have no doubt that FFA will respond in that way (it already has). As for some rogue journo, I wouldn't waste any time on her. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
n i k o Posted November 26, 2015 Report Share Posted November 26, 2015 Sydney FC's supporter group, The Cove, have pushed themselves to the vanguard of mushrooming fan power movement as they pledge to take Football Federation Australia (FFA), NSW Police and the SCG Trust to task in a series of summits aimed at changing the way active fans are perceived. By David Lewis 25 NOV 2015 - 10:45 PM UPDATED 1 HOUR AGO 0 While fellow fans groups from Western Sydney Wanderers and Melbourne Victory will stage walk-outs during A-League matches this weekend, in protest to FFA's heavy duty approach to dealing with active supporter groups, the Cove will be asking the hard questions of the authorities in the continuing fallout from the controversial unveiling of 198 banned fans in a name-and-shame file published by News Corp last weekend. Tensions are running high among supporters over a raft of issues, with demands that an appeal process be put in place for those who feel they have been wrongly identified as "louts" and banned for up to 10 years by the governing body. A Cove leadership group, which believes walk-outs are the wrong way to agitate for change, held discussions with FFA officials on Wednesday night, describing the outcome as “positive”. In what promises to be an absorbing meeting, the group will also tackle NSW police representatives next Tuesday to challenge statements which include telling the Sunday Telegraph: “The last thing we want to get to in Australia is putting rival fans in cages like the UK model". While fellow fans groups from Western Sydney Wanderers and Melbourne Victory will stage walk-outs during A-League matches this weekend, in protest to FFA's heavy duty approach to dealing with active supporter groups, the Cove will be asking the hard questions of the authorities in the continuing fallout from the controversial unveiling of 198 banned fans in a name-and-shame file published by News Corp last weekend. Tensions are running high among supporters over a raft of issues, with demands that an appeal process be put in place for those who feel they have been wrongly identified as "louts" and banned for up to 10 years by the governing body. A Cove leadership group, which believes walk-outs are the wrong way to agitate for change, held discussions with FFA officials on Wednesday night, describing the outcome as “positive”. In what promises to be an absorbing meeting, the group will also tackle NSW police representatives next Tuesday to challenge statements which include telling the Sunday Telegraph: “The last thing we want to get to in Australia is putting rival fans in cages like the UK model". Wanderers to help fans appeal bans Western Sydney Wanderers fans who feel they've been unfairly banned by Football Federation Australia (FFA) from attending A-League matches have been told to take their grievances to the club. Wanderers and Victory fans to stage mid-match protest Two of the A-League's biggest supporter groups will stage mid-match walkouts this weekend in what they say is a protest against Football Federation Australia's (FFA) treatment of active fans. Fan fury over leaks in a breach of trust Sydney FC supporters group, the Cove, have sought an urgent ‘please explain’ meeting with the SCG Trust, which they believe may be the source of a leaked document which 'names and shames’ 198 football fans banned from sports grounds nationwide. The SCG Trust has also agreed to talks with the Cove next Wednesday. Cove spokesman Grant Muir is seeking answers to questions from all three bodies. The NSW Police Association are foremost in his sights after they “posted and re-posted anti-football tweets”, including a link to the inflammatory, and very possibly defamatory News Corp article penned by Rebecca Wilson, which revealed the identity of the 198 banned supporters, some of whom were underage and many who have not been convicted by any court for their purported offences. A number of those fans are now exploring their legal options after being identified by News Corp, with one claiming he has lost his job as a result. “The NSW police are supposed to be impartial, and in these instances they have very clearly not been,” Muir said. “Some of them seem to have a mental block on football and their cultural issues in their attitudes towards football fans which need to be addressed. “Mr Scipione thinks they put people in cages in England ... it's horrifying that he would believe that something that was eliminated 25 years ago is still going on.” Broadcaster Alan Jones, who sparked anger by likening issues with A-League fans to the Paris terrorist’s attacks, is a member of the SCG Trust, which the Cove feels has some serious questions to answer. “We want to hear from them how they are investigating whether the leak came from them and what they plan to do should they find that it did," Muir said. “Does the board support Jones's position? Will they refute it and censure him for his statement? It's a serious concern that a board member of a public trust is able to vilify its largest tennant's patrons in that disgusting manner." All this comes amid calls from Victory CEO Ian Robson for FFA to ensure there is never again a repeat of leaked confidential information about supporters, and offers from the Wanderers, who have 90 supporters on the list for offenses ranging from foul language to fighting, to advocate on behalf of their fans if they can prove they have treated unjustly. With feelings at fever pitch, FFA felt compelled to issue a brief statement on Wednesday night after it emerged that Wilson had received death threats over her story. “While these are matters for the police, FFA has called for these threats to cease,” the statement read. With FFA scrambling to manage a PR disaster, The Cove will also ask the governing body what it will do to stop any repeats of the fiasco. “We are asking what they are doing to find out who leaked the documents, and we are also looking for answering on the banning process for supporters,” Muir said. “We have had no participation in the process other than being on the receiving end of their decisions ... fans deserve a transparent process.” The Cove will also press FFA on the role of private security firm Hatomoto in the process of banning supporters. “We have no problem with people that break the law and act in a violent way getting banned … but you have to have a valid system and should not implement a system which bans people incorrectly and then offers no visible recourse,” Muir said. “The FFA has a massive problem in its perception form active supporters, and that’s not just from nut-jobs and conspiracy theorists. "Anybody who takes their football seriously has experienced an absence and comprehension and engagement from FFA, who seem unwilling to treat people by society’s normal standards of interaction and seem to arbitrarily impose sanctions on people. “They clearly don't view fans as stakeholders.” 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
n i k o Posted November 26, 2015 Report Share Posted November 26, 2015 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
n i k o Posted November 26, 2015 Report Share Posted November 26, 2015 Quote FFA: We do have an appeals process for bans A Football Federation Australia (FFA) representative has reportedly claimed that the governing body do have an appeals process in place for banned individuals. The Sydney FC active supporters group, The Cove, along with Sydney FC CEO Tony Pignata met with an FFA representative on Wednesday night to discuss a number of problems plaguing Australian football. One of those high on the agenda was the lack of appeal process for fans who have been handed bans from attending A-League matches. However, according to a statement released by The Cove on Thursday, the FFA representative present at the meeting confirmed that the body indeed do have an appeals process in place. "We asked why those facing a ban were not contacted and shown the basis for the decision, and were told it was because the FFA only issues bans when they are certain that they have the correct party," the statement read. "We stated that there had been many reported instances over the past 10 years across all active supporter groups, where people claimed to have been incorrectly identified. These people were simply served a banning notice, given little information about the basis of their ban, and provided no process for appeal. The FFA reiterated their confidence in their process. "We then asked the FFA why there was no appeals process, and were told that there is an appeals process. "We questioned the validity of this statement given the banning orders that we have seen of our own supporters (and those of other active supporter groups) contain no information on this process or even contact information for the FFA to further discuss the notice. "We then asked the FFA to provide details as to how fans could appeal their bans, we were told the following: “Anyone who feels that they have been unjustly banned can present evidence to their club who will, if the evidence is convincing, appeal on behalf of the fan.” "We then pointed out that if there indeed was a process no-one was aware of it, including apparently the clubs themselves – confirmed by Tony Pignata and through the statements of CEO’s John Tsatimas (Western Sydney Wanderers) and Ian Robson (Melbourne Victory). "We requested on behalf of all supporters that this process be publicly documented and present on all banning orders going forward. "Lastly we mentioned that Hatamoto had a vested interest in there being issues so as to justify their presence at games." The Cove also discussed the leak of FFA's alleged ban list, which the representative reiterated that the confidential documents were not leaked by governing body. Also discussed was the lack of engagement by FFA towards fans. The full statement can be read here. Read more at http://www.fourfourtwo.com/au/news/ffa-we-do-have-appeals-process-bans#j9Ft3PXTiyDmTU2f.99 Then there's this: 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jw1739 Posted November 26, 2015 Report Share Posted November 26, 2015 Superb "gotcha" Niko! "We have an appeals process...but we will not consider any appeal." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
belaguttman Posted November 26, 2015 Report Share Posted November 26, 2015 It really sounds like a Kafka novel 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post n i k o Posted November 26, 2015 Popular Post Report Share Posted November 26, 2015 You look at this situation, then you look at how the CBA deal was worked out earlier this season. It just seems the FFA seriously lack the necassary communication skills to be a 'good' governing body. Communication is definitely poor and with that comes a lack of transparency. From their side of things they seriously need to clean up their act in these areas. 16 minutes ago, jw1739 said: Superb "gotcha" Niko! "We have an appeals process...but we will not consider any appeal." ...but come to the Socceroos game v South Africa 8 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KSK_47 Posted November 26, 2015 Report Share Posted November 26, 2015 35 minutes ago, n i k o said: ...but come to the Socceroos game v South Africa Haha. That gave me a chuckle too Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cadete Posted November 26, 2015 Report Share Posted November 26, 2015 1 hour ago, n i k o said: Then there's this: I know of least two bans that were cancelled when sufficient evidence proved those who received them were not at fault FWIW. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
belaguttman Posted November 26, 2015 Report Share Posted November 26, 2015 18 minutes ago, cadete said: I know of least two bans that were cancelled when sufficient evidence proved those who received them were not at fault FWIW. That's good to hear, its a shame that they didn't ask for the evidence first Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cadete Posted November 26, 2015 Report Share Posted November 26, 2015 1 hour ago, belaguttman said: That's good to hear, its a shame that they didn't ask for the evidence first That's because they usually have the CCTV footage in the first place. As is the case with all the MHFC fans that were named in the paper. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
belaguttman Posted November 26, 2015 Report Share Posted November 26, 2015 6 minutes ago, cadete said: That's because they usually have the CCTV footage in the first place. As is the case with all the MHFC fans that were named in the paper. I mean evidence that someone has been misidentified. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fingman Posted November 26, 2015 Report Share Posted November 26, 2015 An additional statement has been published. I haven't read this whole thread but I hope it clears up some of the questions and concerns.https://www.facebook.com/melburnians1847/posts/479068238938115 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
belaguttman Posted November 26, 2015 Report Share Posted November 26, 2015 If the point of the absence is to show what the game would be like without active support then a banner displayed in the active area saying 'this is what the game would be like without us' would help to clarify the point of the protest Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gundam Posted November 26, 2015 Report Share Posted November 26, 2015 No members, no club. No supporters, no league. We are football. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dr lime Posted November 26, 2015 Report Share Posted November 26, 2015 11 hours ago, belaguttman said: @kingofhearts I certainly agree with the expectation that fans should behave during matches and that sanctions should result from misbehaviour. Unless we all believe that security teams have not made a singe error in identifying 198 miscreants from a crowd of active supporters then they should have natural justice with a right of appeal. Currently the only people who have no right to hear the evidence against them nor have a right of appeal are asylum seekers and football fans. Of course there's no proof that any of the fans have been mistakenly identified, that is the point, there's also no proof that any of them have been correctly identified for the same reason. An appeal process allows allegations to be tested, if found guilty then they should be excluded. The second issue is one of privacy. I believe that very few of these people have been charged with a crime and perhaps only 1 that I know of has been convicted. If this is the case then on what basis have these identities and photos been published? Some of these people are minors, even the Childrens Court surpasses their identity from public reporting in situations where young people have been charged and convicted. The real story here is that there is a list of excluded people in football and probably all other sports but that this list has been prepared without a proper process of evidence and appeal. The other issue is really how many other sports bother at all, I find it hard to believe that cricket puts any effort into excluding fans who cause trouble i agree with all these points. Well made and extremely valid. But some lame protest won't change this stuff. Find other ways to make a logical argument and mobilise politically. Sooking while supporting your team will achieve less than nothing. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
neio Posted November 26, 2015 Report Share Posted November 26, 2015 Guess ill sit in the active area by myself Still think it's bloody stupid 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
n i k o Posted November 26, 2015 Report Share Posted November 26, 2015 5 hours ago, cadete said: I know of least two bans that were cancelled when sufficient evidence proved those who received them were not at fault FWIW. In all honesty it's not worth a lot cadete. From a number of reports there are still a lot of people that can't appeal irrespective of whether they actually committed those actions. This is because there is clearly a severe lack of communication between FFA and its supporters. There is no clear process for appeal. And before it's said that the FFA can do as they please like a 'pub' I find that to be such an incredibly simple minded way of looking at it. The FFA , like a government, is supposed to be there for its people. They should have a responsibility towards their people and treat them with respect with clear communication and transparency. The reason they must do this is because the game is bigger than they are and they are here to serve the game to the best of their ability. And the game is ultimately its people. This is who they should be serving. I stand by every person that has rightfully been caught committing unsociable acts to be banned to the full extent of the law. And there needs to be a serious investigation into stopping some of the incidents that occur outside games by a minority. But there are clearly serious issues that need to be addressed regarding the FFA. Hopefully you can see that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red or Dead Posted November 26, 2015 Report Share Posted November 26, 2015 So does this protest mean there won't be a march? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
n i k o Posted November 26, 2015 Report Share Posted November 26, 2015 Quote An open letter to Rebecca Wilson from a passionate football fanNovember 26, 2015 2:40pmKieran Francis By Kieran Francis Dear Rebecca Wilson..."Get over yourselves (A-League fans) and come to terms with the fact you’ve got 198 of you who are bad eggs" - this is what you said on Sports Night on Sky News on Tuesday night. You are simply wrong. Sure, there are some "bad eggs" on the list of banned A-League fans you exposed - but there are also fans who were banned on questionable grounds, without the right of appeal. When asked about the right to appeal of all banned fans, you said: "You can talk about rights of appeal and all those sort of things, but there is a reason why police have put together this file, because these are the worst offenders." I have some examples which prove you wrong. Being an active Melbourne Victory supporter, I have personally witnessed: - A supporter receiving a one-year ban for entering the field of play, when he didn’t. CCTV footage could have been a tool used in an appeal. - A supporter copped a five-year ban for lighting a flare that he did not actually ignite. Again CCTV footage may have helped clear his name. This is only a few of the 198 banned, but it's fair to assume there are other fans in the same situation. Do these fans, who have no way of fighting their ban, deserve to have their names, faces and details of their “misdemeanours” broadcast to the nation? No. And it's completely careless and ignorant of you to not take that into consideration. You are putting the livelihoods and reputations of these people on the line - some whom may not even be guilty.You are right when you say there are some violent, unpleasant characters on the banned list - it's great that these people can't attend matches. On that I agree with you. But you are showing that you know nothing about the sport by applying an incorrect stereotype to the majority of football fans. When Sports Night guest Andrew Webster said: "I’ve been to a few A-League games and I have never felt anything but completely safe there." You responded by saying: "You are in a different situation because they consider I am public enemy Number 1." While I definitely don't condone or agree with the threats aimed at you, you can't expect to have the red carpet laid out at A-League matches after your history of taking cheap shots at the sport and people who follow it. Also, are the rest of the A-League members and fans "in a different situation" to you regarding their feeling of safety at matches? You say that crowds are down because "people don’t feel safe at a lot of A-League games". Well the two clubs with the most number of banned fans, Western Sydney Wanderers and Melbourne Victory, have both experienced membership growth this season. In your universe the "violent thugs" were turning people away… A good journalist can only write a balanced feature piece if they understand what they are writing about.You clearly don't understand football. Yours sincerely, Kieran Francis - Melbourne Victory supporter http://www.sportal.com.au/football/news/an-open-letter-to-rebecca-wilson-from-a-non-violent-football-fan/176x6baq8q5ub1r0i09c0i37mm Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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