The APL/FA Management Thread

[Embee]

35 minutes ago, Harrison said:

Who can really say which kid will make it and which won't? I always think of a kid like Atkinson. So far down the nominal order at the start of the season (Muscat, Schenkeveld, Malik?, Pieiras then Atkinson) but has ended up the first-choice and earned a senior contract. If Muscat went down and we could/did loan in a 22-year-old from somewhere else then Atkinson getting that chance is a very slim possibility. Perhaps he would have at some point but it is difficult to say. The jump from youth to seniors is bloody difficult. 

I've got it on pretty good authority that Joyce had Atkinson ear-marked as one of the kids he was particularly keen on from very early in pre-season and worked on a one to one level with him until he felt he was ready for the first team and then gave him that chance.

[Harrison]

4 minutes ago, Embee said:

I've got it on pretty good authority that Joyce had Atkinson ear-marked as one of the kids he was particularly keen on from very early in pre-season and worked on a one to one level with him until he felt he was ready for the first team and then gave him that chance.

Interesting, cheers for that. Pieiras did an interview this February with Davutovic before the Y-league GF and said that he was told he was close to being picked. So if he stays, the competition for that RB spot will be strong, especially without Muscat. 

I've also read that Joyce takes some of the youth training sessions. He is clearly a seriously good developer of talent.

[n i k o]

1 hour ago, Harrison said:

Interesting, cheers for that. Pieiras did an interview this February with Davutovic before the Y-league GF and said that he was told he was close to being picked. So if he stays, the competition for that RB spot will be strong, especially without Muscat. 

I've also read that Joyce takes some of the youth training sessions. He is clearly a seriously good developer of talent.

There'd be no short list of fuckwits that'd start jeering how we are a development club used by CFG to scout youth for future profit. But this is seriously fantastic news to hear Joyce getting involved with the youth team, regardless of the reason. 

[jw1739]

3 hours ago, Harrison said:

It would have benefited Arzani and City/CCM but what about the young blokes at CCM? They'd be forced to compete with yet another player. It is a zero-sum game. 

Makes more sense in a two-division system where bigger clubs can loan to smaller clubs but we are so far away from that. In a closed, 10-team league it doesn't make sense to me. 

It just smacks of FFA ceding ground to placate the stakeholders without thinking things through or initiating proper reform. 

I can't see how it would have benefited Arzani or City. Once he was picked for the A-League team he was the excitement factor and a major factor in us finishing 3rd.

Your other comments - I agree with you.

[bt50]

12 minutes ago, jw1739 said:

I can't see how it would have benefited Arzani or City. Once he was picked for the A-League team he was the excitement factor and a major factor in us finishing 3rd.

Your other comments - I agree with you.

How it benefits :

Arzani 

 - Gets a league game time

- Remains contracted to the 'pathway' club

- Provides him with a platform to impress his own club as well as potential suitors at a higher level than simpler Y-League/Reserves

- If he achieves above, increases his earning capacity

 

Melbourne City

- Has a talented youngster on its books that isnt quite best 16 obtain game time

- Helps foster the talent's readiness to play in its own XI

- If he performs, increases player's value should a good offer come up etc

[jw1739]

I give up if you really believe that it was better for Arzani and Melbourne City for him to play for Central Coast Mariners than it was for him to play for Melbourne City.

Edited May 24, 2018 by jw1739

[bt50]

3 minutes ago, jw1739 said:

I give up if you really believe that it was better for Arzani and Melbourne City for him to play for Central Coast Mariners than it was for him to play for Melbourne City.

He didn't really play for Melbourne City though, that's the point. He played 58' in 6 appearances all off the bench, spread across the entirety of the season.
Potentially playing the last 10 or so games for CCM may well have been good for everyone.

[Harrison]

14 minutes ago, jw1739 said:

I give up if you really believe that it was better for Arzani and Melbourne City for him to play for Central Coast Mariners than it was for him to play for Melbourne City.

I think he means last season. It does make sense in Arzani's case last season but I can't think of that many that would be loaned around. Perhaps a few like Lachlan Scott from WSW. 

It'll be interesting to see how many move around and what kind of game time they can actually get. My guess is they won't get much. Scott got a few games this season and looked mediocre. If he goes to CCM he will probably look the same/worse because you're playing against the same teams but in a weaker team. 

[jw1739]

1 hour ago, bt50 said:

He didn't really play for Melbourne City though, that's the point. He played 58' in 6 appearances all off the bench, spread across the entirety of the season.
Potentially playing the last 10 or so games for CCM may well have been good for everyone.

We must be talking about different seasons. For me, "last season" was 2017-18.

In 2017-18 Arzani played 1194 minutes with two goals and three assists.

[Shahanga]

But surely it makes more sense to just allow any sort of loan!

This restricted format is simply retarded.

let the market function for FFS. That alone will create opportunities.

[haz]

2 hours ago, Shahanga said:

But surely it makes more sense to just allow any sort of loan!

This restricted format is simply retarded.

let the market function for FFS. That alone will create opportunities.

Just wait until they introduce transfer fees.... imagine the rules!

[jw1739]

Lowy and four of the smaller "State" federations still opposing reforms of FFA.

https://theworldgame.sbs.com.au/ffa-lowy-opposed-to-congress-changes

[Dylan]

This was always going to be messy and painful. so im not surprised. 

[Harrison]

Bring on the normalisation committee. 

[Young Polak]

https://amp.smh.com.au/sport/soccer/prospect-of-fifa-sacking-ffa-board-back-on-the-table-20180801-p4zuz0.html

 

Prospect of FIFA sacking FFA board back on the table

Football Federation Australia chairman Steven Lowy has confirmed his board is opposed to "crucial aspects" of a report handed down by a FIFA-backed working group into how the federation's congress should be expanded.

The congress review working group (CRWG) has submitted its recommendations to the global governing body after seven weeks of consultation with key stakeholders in Australian football.

It comes as four of the country's smallest state federations put forward a counter-proposal to the CRWG that they say better addresses the needs of grassroots football.

The CRWG's report is still under wraps and will only be released publicly at the discretion of FIFA, who commissioned it in attempt to force FFA to fall in line with its statutes after several years of pressure on the Lowy family.

The current FFA congress is the smallest and least democratic in world football.

FIFA is expected to approve the recommendations and ask for them to be adopted at an FFA special general meeting by September 7.

But the likelihood of that happening is low, with four state federations – the ACT, Northern Territory, Northern NSW and Tasmania – ready to vote to down the changes.

If the CRWG's proposals do not pass, FIFA could sack the FFA board and replace it with a normalisation committee to run the sport.

It's understood the sticking point in the long-running saga has not changed – the balance of votes in an expanded congress.

The concern of FFA and the four state federations in their corner is that A-League clubs will wield too much power at the expense of the grassroots and other elements of the sport.

However, FFA's previous suggestions for a reformed congress have not satisfied FIFA's demands for a more democratic structure.

 

"There are many elements of the report which are positive steps and wholly supported by the FFA board," Lowy said in a statement.

"However there are also some crucial aspects of the report which the FFA board does not believe are in the best interests of the game and are inconsistent with its guiding principles."

Lowy strenuously denied suggestions FFA had interfered with the CRWG's work or placed undue pressure on stakeholders.

The ACT, Northern Territory, Northern NSW and Tasmanian federations were not part of the CRWG and in a joint statement said it was "very challenging" for the states who were to represent their views.

Combined, they account for just 18 per cent of the registered players in Australia.

All nine state federations collectively agreed for Victoria, South Australia, NSW and Western Australia to join the eight-member CRWG, which was independently chaired by former Australian Grand Prix CEO Judith Griggs.

The Association of Australian Football Clubs, the lobby group representing dozens of state-league clubs around the country, said the four opposing state federations and FFA should "hang their collective heads in shame" for attempting to block the CRWG's proposals.

Edited August 3, 2018 by Young Polak

[Jovan]

The FFA and before the Soccer Australia cop alot of stick for mismanagement and basic incompetence and rightly so but the state federations are worse.

They along with the FFA new to be removed and replaced. Its an absolute joke.

[jw1739]

I can't believe that a handful of officials  - and particularly Steven Lowy, whose only qualification that I can see is that he is his daddy's son - can hold the rest of the game in this country to ransom.

[Harrison]

1 hour ago, Jovan said:

The FFA and before the Soccer Australia cop alot of stick for mismanagement and basic incompetence and rightly so but the state federations are worse.

They along with the FFA new to be removed and replaced. Its an absolute joke.

If you're referring to the performance during these deliberations, then really you should be aiming at the four 'states' not involved in the CRWG. As it says above, ACT, NT, Tas and northern NSW account for 18 per cent of registered players but FFA have probably convinced them to vote down the proposed changes.

Those four federations are wielding enormous power here.

[Jovan]

1 hour ago, Harrison said:

If you're referring to the performance during these deliberations, then really you should be aiming at the four 'states' not involved in the CRWG. As it says above, ACT, NT, Tas and northern NSW account for 18 per cent of registered players but FFA have probably convinced them to vote down the proposed changes.

Those four federations are wielding enormous power here.

No, I'm reffereing to the last 50 years of the State federations. 

They always go under the radar and are as much to blame if not more than FFA and Soccer Australia. 

They basically operate with self interest as a motivating factor and it's always at the expense of the game.

The State Federations need to be abolished just as much as the FFA does but we all know that won't happen. 

[jw1739]

9 minutes ago, Jovan said:

No, I'm reffereing to the last 50 years of the State federations. 

They always go under the radar and are as much to blame if not more than FFA and Soccer Australia. 

They basically operate with self interest as a motivating factor and it's always at the expense of the game.

The State Federations need to be abolished just as much as the FFA does but we all know that won't happen. 

Why do we need State Federations? I know that they run the current State Leagues, but in terms of the Australian national team they are irrelevant. Clubs could form breakaway State leagues if they wanted.

[Jovan]

23 minutes ago, jw1739 said:

Why do we need State Federations? I know that they run the current State Leagues, but in terms of the Australian national team they are irrelevant. Clubs could form breakaway State leagues if they wanted.

We don't especially in their current guise. 

The biggest losers are at the local levels that pay through the nose to fund a broken system. 

The money and the interest is there but so is the mismanagement and wastage.

[Dylan]

The state federations are basically full of nepotism and brown paper bag types. Would obviously make much more sense to have a national approach and much cheaper. But there is no chance of that happening

[malloy]

3 hours ago, Dylan said:

The state federations are basically full of nepotism and brown paper bag types. Would obviously make much more sense to have a national approach and much cheaper. But there is no chance of that happening

And match fixing, even as low as SL5

[Dylan]

14 hours ago, malloy said:

And match fixing, even as low as SL5

Youd have to be pretty desperate to fix an SL5 match

[Young Polak]

The A-League would be spun off from Football Federation Australia (FFA) and run independently in time for the 2019-2020 season under a proposal by a FIFA-backed working group.

The 100-page report from the congress review working group (CRWG) was made public on Tuesday after its submission to FIFA last week.

It is expected to be rubber-stamped at a meeting of FIFA's member associations committee on August 20 and then put to a vote at an FFA extraordinary general meeting in mid-September.

If the vote fails, FIFA could suspend Australia's membership - potentially putting the Socceroos' defence of their AFC Asian Cup crown at risk and throwing the domestic competition into turmoil.

The report notes opposition from the FFA board to its two key recommendations - the structure of an expanded congress and the mooted pathway for the A-League to become independent.

However, it was signed off by all eight CRWG members - including FFA board member Chris Nikou - as well as independent chair Judith Griggs.

 

 

Held hostage - FFA reforms and the future of Australian football

 

"This report and its recommendations represent an opportunity for a new era of collaboration, transparency and democracy for Australian football," Greg Griffin, CEO of the Australian Professional Football Clubs Association, said.

"They are borne from a process of unprecedented cooperation and engagement between the diverse stakeholders of our game - interactions that should be given every chance of becoming the cornerstone of a brighter future for the entire game."

The CRWG has proposed for the new congress to grow from 10 to 29 members - the nine state federations, nine Australian A-League clubs, Professional Footballers Australia plus and a new 'women's council'.

The women's council would comprise 10 members, with three each nominated by the other stakeholders in the congress, plus an independent chair selected by FFA's nominations committee.

The allocation of votes in the congress is designed to take away the ability for any one group to elect or remove directors or pass constitutional change without support from another.

It also commits to a review of FFA's governance structures every four years.

 

 

Football's 'heart and soul' deserting the game amid governance gridlock

 

The report suggests a collaborative 'New Leagues Working Group' be formed to establish the framework for a new operating model for the A-League.

The working group would consist of representatives from the state federations, clubs and PFA, plus FFA board members and management, who would submit their plan by the end of March 2019.

FFA, in contrast, have been developing their own operating model.

Four state federations - the ACT, Northern Territory, Tasmania and Northern NSW - are aligned with FFA in opposition to the CRWG's key recommendations and are prepared to vote them down at an EGM.

The states submitted a counter proposal to the CRWG, the details of which remain confidential.

It's understood it will not be considered by FIFA, whose remit is to simply approve or reject the report they commissioned from the CRWG.

 

 

Former A-League boss calls for FIFA to boot out FFA board

 

CURRENT FFA CONGRESS

10 members

* Nine state federations (NSW, VIC, NT, SA, WA, TAS, NNSW, QLD, ACT) - 9 votes

* One A-League representative - 1 vote

CRWG'S PROPOSED FFA CONGRESS

29 members

* Nine state federations (NSW, VIC, NT, SA, WA, TAS, NNSW, QLD, ACT) - 55 votes

* Nine Australian-based A-League clubs - 28 votes

* Professional Footballers Australia - 7 votes

* Women's football council (10 members) - 10 votes

* Special interest groups granted membership in future would be assigned 2 votes






https://theworldgame.sbs.com.au/a-league-could-go-independent-by-2019

 

 

There is, it seems, no other way: Australia will be suspended from FIFA unless those running the game in this country change their attitude, and change it fast.

UPDATEDUPDATED 1 HOUR AGO

BY JACK KERR

Suspension would mean no Asian Cup defence for the Socceroos in January; no chance of the Matildas claiming a first FIFA Women’s World Cup in France next year; and no way Australia would host that tournament in 2023 (if it hasn’t already ruined its bid chances).

And all for what?

The battle to fix Australian football’s governance issues is not a Mexican standoff. Nor is it mutually assured destruction.

FIFA are the only one in this fight with the nuclear option of suspension at their disposal, and barring some unforeseeable plot-twist, it seems inevitable they will disendorse their Australian chapter, should the latest round of reform recommendations not be accepted.

Because if they aren’t running out patience, FIFA are certainly running out of options.

Since intervening two years ago, when they became increasingly concerned about the undemocratic fashion in which football in Australia was being run, FIFA have taken the softly, softly approach.

When negotiations reached a stalemate, they could have installed a normalisation committee to institute the reforms they saw fit.

Instead, they assembled a working group, headed by Judith Griggs, and tasked them with finding the best way forward. Call it normalisation-lite.

Rather than the detached international governance experts that would sit on a normalisation committee, the future of Australian football was put in the hands of eight locals with skin in the game: four representing the state football bodies; one from FIFA; two from the A-League clubs; and another from the players’ union (the PFA).

And their package of solutions is a good one.

It increases the size of the FFA Congress (the group which appoints the FFA board) from 10 to 29.

It spreads the voting weight more evenly amongst this cohort: the block of state federations, which currently controls 90 per cent of votes, has its collective voting weight reduced to 55 per cent - which is less than the 60 per cent needed to appoint members to the board.

 

Recommendations set FFA on course for FIFA clash

 

That should mean an end to sham boardroom elections in which only those with links to sponsors get a seat at the table.

The working group’s findings also have gender equality as a cornerstone: on top of a special Women’s Council being granted 10 of the Congress’ 100 votes, each other member must be represented by one male and one female delegate.

And the proposed model allows for new voices to be given a say: special interest groups - such as those representing coaches, NPL clubs, fans and even Indigenous footballers - can get a place in the Congress should they meet the list of criteria that has been laid out in the findings.

All up, the proposal handed in to FIFA and currently awaiting their approval, moves the governance of Australian football towards the best practices of other national member associations.

Now, for it to come into effect, the reforms need to get the approval of at least eight of the current FFA Congress’ 10 members.

For it not to win that support would be illogical: yet here we are, with the smaller states - who are said to have become increasingly recalcitrant during the process - now putting their commitment to head office before the interests of the game.

In other words, the future of football is being held hostage by the likes of Football Federation Northern Territory, a region that has rarely produced a Socceroo, a Matilda, or an A-League player, which has barely a few thousand registered players, and which seems to do little to foster Indigenous footballing talent.

But it wouldn’t be football politics if the microstates were not having undue influence on proceedings.

Perhaps the only circuit breaker to this situation lies in the six pro-reform members in the Congress - the mainland states and the clubs’ representatives - engaging their rights to kick out members of the current board and replacing them.

It is something they have so far refrained from doing, preferring, they say, to work in a spirit of collegiality and good will.

But with these latest reforms the last chance to change the governance of the game in Australia on a cooperative basis, it may yet come to that.

And that would be disastrous for the Lowy family's legacy in the game.

 

 

https://theworldgame.sbs.com.au/held-hostage-ffa-reforms-and-the-future-of-australian-football

 

 

[haz]

So in simple terms, how would being run separate from FFA change things? Would the league be able to change the rules easily?

[jw1739]

58 minutes ago, haz said:

So in simple terms, how would being run separate from FFA change things? Would the league be able to change the rules easily?

Presumably the constituent members would set up the League's own "commission" or council to actually regulate the league, and I'm assuming that the way it would be set up would ensure that it was a lot easier to change the members of the commission than it is presently to change the board of FFA. Net effect would be to have a more compliant regulating body than at present - compliant with the louder, wealthier and more powerful clubs of course.

[haz]

3 minutes ago, jw1739 said:

Presumably the constituent members would set up the League's own "commission" or council to actually regulate the league, and I'm assuming that the way it would be set up would ensure that it was a lot easier to change the members of the commission than it is presently to change the board of FFA. Net effect would be to have a more compliant regulating body than at present - compliant with the louder, wealthier and more powerful clubs of course.

https://www.fourfourtwo.com.au/news/ffa-vows-to-block-ffa-v20-blueprint-499789

FFA vows to block FFA V2.0 blueprint

[jw1739]

2 hours ago, haz said:

https://www.fourfourtwo.com.au/news/ffa-vows-to-block-ffa-v20-blueprint-499789

FFA vows to block FFA V2.0 blueprint

Predictable.

This whole procedure is going completely nowhere. Lowy and Gallop are just going to fight it until the bitter end. Lowy is total poison to football in this country.

IMO the showdown needs to come sooner rather than later. Everyone's a loser if we keep going the way we are.

[Shahanga]

Lowy jr. has pulled the pin.

[Tommykins]

Quote

Lowy also fired parting shots at some of the A-League owners, including the City Football Group, who own Melbourne City.

“We welcome foreign investment in our league. It is more than welcome; it is crucial. But when it comes to the whole of the game, it should not be controlled by ­foreign interests. That is what is at stake here."

Press conference set for 11am

[HEARTinator]

About time. Saw the writing on the wall and was going to get no support from FIFA HQ over the current stand off with stakeholders.

[jw1739]

Had to go. Thank goodness. Now get rid of Gallop and a few more and get some football people running the game.

As Playmaker would say - "Drain the swamp."

[Harrison]

Smart move by Lowy. Exits with a tiny shred of pride instead of being forced out.

[Dylan]

I think this is an indication that FIFA is going to side with the others. I just hope this new structure and board is implemented ASAP so the expansion timetable is kept and the FFA issues are resolved as much as possible before the season starts

[Harrison]

36 minutes ago, Dylan said:

I think this is an indication that FIFA is going to side with the others. I just hope this new structure and board is implemented ASAP so the expansion timetable is kept and the FFA issues are resolved as much as possible before the season starts

What do you mean side with the others? As in side with the CRWG?

It's basically their working group, so they will just rubber stamp the report. 

If the September EGM votes it down, then FIFA can intervene. 

 

[Dylan]

46 minutes ago, Harrison said:

What do you mean side with the others? As in side with the CRWG?

It's basically their working group, so they will just rubber stamp the report. 

If the September EGM votes it down, then FIFA can intervene. 

 

I meant what you said, just couldn't remember the name. I know its a working group but they have developed a model to reform the congress and which FFA has their own preferred model. So there are basically two options and since FIFA has the ultimate say at the end of this, regardless of what happens in the mean time, I would highly doubt Lowy would resign if he knew, or at least had a strong idea that the FFA was going to win this.

 

The only thing I hope is that people dont think that if this new model comes in its going to fix everything right away. I also hope they dont react badly to messy fights or long decision processes as its going to be like that under the new model. But I still think it will be better than what we have. Especially if the Aleague becomes independent. IMO they need to follow what the German FA and Bundesliga have done 

Edited August 17, 2018 by Dylan

[Harrison]

12 minutes ago, Dylan said:

I ment what you said, just couldn't remember the name. I know its a working group but they have developed a model to reform the board and which FFA has their own preferred model. So there are basically two options and since FIFA has the ultimate say at the end of this, regardless of what happens in the mean time, I would highly doubt Lowy would resign if he knew, or at least had a strong idea that the FFA was going to win this 

Yep all good. Lowy knows he is cooked. I posted above that he is making a smart move by resigning now. The board will be spilled at the EGM so he is leaving now with a bit of dignity left.

And the CRWG report will be formally approved by FIFA next week.

If it doesn't get up at the EGM, shit will get interesting. 

Edited August 17, 2018 by Harrison

[Torn Asunder]

This is not the beginning of the end, but the end of the beginning.

 

[Tony999]

This news is better than winning the toilet seat!