The APL/FA Management Thread

[jw1739]

Important AGM tonight. http://www.abc.net.au/news/2017-11-30/could-socceroos-be-kicked-out-of-world-cup-ffa-congress-fifa/9206028

[haz]

5 hours ago, jw1739 said:

Important AGM tonight. http://www.abc.net.au/news/2017-11-30/could-socceroos-be-kicked-out-of-world-cup-ffa-congress-fifa/9206028

Lowy has got something up his sleeve. He won't go down easily

[jw1739]

28 minutes ago, haz said:

Lowy has got something up his sleeve. He won't go down easily

He'll need it.

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2017-11-30/a-league-clubs-allege-ffa-conflicts-of-interest/9210960

[jw1739]

Reforms voted down.

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2017-11-30/ffa-congress-move-rejected/9212074

More to follow.

[haz]

All hail new FIFA Overlords!

[HEARTinator]

And it all started so well in 2004. In the end current FFA ended up no different to the NSL knobs they ridiculed. FIFA could come in now to setup FFA 2.0

Edited November 30, 2017 by HEARTinator

[Dylan]

Is the aleague independent yet? Faster it gets away from the state feds the better

[kingofhearts]

Shambles

[jw1739]

Lowy singled out the City Football Group as representing a club ethos that wanted to soak up the game’s resources.

“Five of the professional clubs are controlled by foreign interest,” he said. “One is controlled by Manchester City. It’s not in their interest that there’s an independent board that’s allocating funds for the whole of the game.” He accused the clubs of wanting a return to the “bad old days” of the NSL.“Today’s vote was all about money and control,” he said. “This has been a fight about who runs the game in Australia. The independent board was put in place some 13 years ago because the game was a basket case. Those who voted against progress today are those who want to take the game back to the bad old days.”

http://www.heraldsun.com.au/sport/football/australian-football-in-chaos-as-football-federation-australia-chairman-steven-lowy-fails-to-win/news-story/45124735bdf71b5fb9d27ca20b206487

[HEARTinator]

1 hour ago, jw1739 said:

Lowy singled out the City Football Group as representing a club ethos that wanted to soak up the game’s resources.

“Five of the professional clubs are controlled by foreign interest,” he said. “One is controlled by Manchester City. It’s not in their interest that there’s an independent board that’s allocating funds for the whole of the game.” He accused the clubs of wanting a return to the “bad old days” of the NSL.“Today’s vote was all about money and control,” he said. “This has been a fight about who runs the game in Australia. The independent board was put in place some 13 years ago because the game was a basket case. Those who voted against progress today are those who want to take the game back to the bad old days.”

http://www.heraldsun.com.au/sport/football/australian-football-in-chaos-as-football-federation-australia-chairman-steven-lowy-fails-to-win/news-story/45124735bdf71b5fb9d27ca20b206487

Does Lowy even know what he's talking about? Independent leagues exist elsewhere but are run under the umbrella of the country's football federation. The Bundesliga is an independently run competition but football as a whole is governed by the German Football Association. The A-league can be run independently but football as a whole would be governed by the FFA. The FFA could impose a licensing fee on an independent A-league and so extract money that way. Lowy's statement is just spin and deflection away from the real problem, the un-democratic way the FFA board and chairman are appointed by compliant state federations.

[Shahanga]

The A League doesn’t need to be independent, but it does need to be run well and right now it’s not. It seems to me to be quite clear that on any metric you choose (skill, entertainment, crowds etc) the league is deteriorating.

I have never been made aware of the skills that led to the appointment of the current chairman and his performance in the job has been terrible up to now. It’s almost like he was appointed on other grounds. 

If the FFA had tried to be progressive and roll back some of their restrictive practices over time they wouldn’t be faced with this crisis. They only have themselves to blame and bitching about the same people who’s arrival they lauded as a sign of them creating a great investment environment is  deliciously ironic. Maybe they’d still have some Aussie owners if they hadn’t sent all the bastards broke in the first place.

[jw1739]

4 hours ago, Shahanga said:

The A League doesn’t need to be independent, but it does need to be run well and right now it’s not. It seems to me to be quite clear that on any metric you choose (skill, entertainment, crowds etc) the league is deteriorating.

I have never been made aware of the skills that led to the appointment of the current chairman and his performance in the job has been terrible up to now. It’s almost like he was appointed on other grounds. 

If the FFA had tried to be progressive and roll back some of their restrictive practices over time they wouldn’t be faced with this crisis. They only have themselves to blame and bitching about the same people who’s arrival they lauded as a sign of them creating a great investment environment is  deliciously ironic. Maybe they’d still have some Aussie owners if they hadn’t sent all the bastards broke in the first place.

Steven Lowy's only qualification for the job is that he's Daddy's son. The appointment stinks.

I still think that the league needs to be independent. FFA is simply not staffed with sufficient capable people to deliver the improvements required - no timetable is ever adhered to. Even something as necessary as the financial requirements for any new applicant, promised for last February, has not been delivered; I'm sure that a small group of CEOs from the existing clubs could deliver that pretty quickly.

Lowy's reported remarks on City and CFG are appalling. We have taken the lion's share of the cost of bringing Tim Cahill to the league so that he could be used as a marketing tool. We're contributing players at all levels in representative teams, and we've done great things in the NYL and W-League. Not in our interest to see funds spread over the whole of football? We are the first club to treat our female footballers with decency and respect.

Lowy should have the guts to quit.

Edited December 1, 2017 by jw1739

[belaguttman]

The League needs to be independant, just like in every other well functioning sport. There's a conflict of interest when those responsible for running and promoting the sport are the same people who are responsible for compliance with the rules of the sport. Look at pro cycling where the upper management of the UCI all knew about Lance Armstrong's doping but chose to actively cover it up as he was 'good for the sport' that they promoted and financially benefitted from

[Blackout]

1 hour ago, jw1739 said:

Steven Lowy's only qualification for the job is that he's Daddy's son. The appointment stinks.

I still can't believe that his appointment was so widely accepted, with only a few dissenting voices.

[Shahanga]

1 hour ago, jw1739 said:

 

Lowy should have the guts to quit.

If he put the game first he surely would have resigned weeks ago.

Says a lot about him that he is refusing to.

[Jovan]

Man I can't believe this. The FFA has been given an extension. Lowy if nothing else is a survivor. 

[Dylan]

1 hour ago, Jovan said:

Man I can't believe this. The FFA has been given an extension. Lowy if nothing else is a survivor. 

After that press conference there is no coming back from Lowy, no bridges were left unburnt after that little contribution. Only kicking the can down the road and probably doing more damage. This whole thing was never going to end cleanly so not really surprised this has happend

[Shahanga]

3 hours ago, Jovan said:

Man I can't believe this. The FFA has been given an extension. Lowy if nothing else is a survivor. 

I can.

Old mate Junior was behaving in a way that said he had one last card up his sleeve & I guess now he’s played it.

[belaguttman]

3 hours ago, Jovan said:

Man I can't believe this. The FFA has been given an extension. Lowy if nothing else is a survivor. 

Lowy has been spending a lot of time with the chairman of the FIFA committee so the extension isn't surprising

Emperor Lowy Strikes Back for the Star Wars round

Edited December 7, 2017 by belaguttman

[Shahanga]

39 minutes ago, belaguttman said:

Lowy has been spending a lot of time with the chairman of the FIFA committee so the extension isn't surprising

Emperor Lowy Strikes Back for the Star Wars round

Nailed it!

[jw1739]

How one bloke whose only qualification for the job is that he's Daddy's son can hold the whole game of football in Australia to ransom is beyond me.

[Jovan]

1 hour ago, jw1739 said:

How one bloke whose only qualification for the job is that he's Daddy's son can hold the whole game of football in Australia to ransom is beyond me.

I'm kind of thinking he has got something to hide for being so dogged at retaining control because ultimately him and the board are going to be replaced it just doesn't seem logical to fight so hard, it's not like he owns the entity or has put in millions of his own money. It smells fishy.

[haz]

1 hour ago, Jovan said:

I'm kind of thinking he has got something to hide for being so dogged at retaining control because ultimately him and the board are going to be replaced it just doesn't seem logical to fight so hard, it's not like he owns the entity or has put in millions of his own money. It smells fishy.

Probaly uses FFA as a tax dodge.

If theres so much trouble about realeasing the Finance Reports then you know its something to do with money

Edited December 7, 2017 by haz

[belaguttman]

2 hours ago, Jovan said:

I'm kind of thinking he has got something to hide for being so dogged at retaining control because ultimately him and the board are going to be replaced it just doesn't seem logical to fight so hard, it's not like he owns the entity or has put in millions of his own money. It smells fishy.

Its hardly as if FIFA or the AFC would worry about corrupt practices

[citymad]

I think FFA, or more correctly the Lowy's have some dirt on someone at FIFA. Either a bribe that was taken and not yet exposed for the 2022 world cup bid, or something in relation to the upcoming women's world cup bid. The lowys probably have threatened to expose it if removed, and FIFA have shit themselves. Its a game of thrones.

[Blackout]

9 hours ago, belaguttman said:

Its hardly as if FIFA or the AFC would worry about corrupt practices

To be fair, it would probably propel him into a FIFA executive position.

[belaguttman]

11 minutes ago, Blackout said:

To be fair, it would probably propel him into a FIFA executive position.

green line coming

[jw1739]

IMO it's more likely that it is simply a thirst to hold on to power. He's accustomed to being "in charge" and it's his way or no way.

What's wrong is that the structure of FFA doesn't seem to permit his removal or offer a way around him. Organizations like FFA always appear to me as some sort of private fiefdom.

[n i k o]

8 minutes ago, jw1739 said:

IMO it's more likely that it is simply a thirst to hold on to power. He's accustomed to being "in charge" and it's his way or no way.

What's wrong is that the structure of FFA doesn't seem to permit his removal or offer a way around him. Organizations like FFA always appear to me as some sort of private fiefdom.

For a second I thought you said femdom 

[bt50]

Unpopular opinion, but i think the Lowy's just love the game and dont want to see all their hard work go backwards.
In saying that, I dont think they've gone about it anywhere close to the right way, and have not done a good job at all since the handover. Outcome and intention aren't always mutually exclusive.

For me the Lowy's represent an over-protective father that doesnt want their daughter to date boys or have a life until they deem them ready, even though they are into their teens. It's time to let the game stand on its own two feet and fuck a couple of bois.

Edited December 8, 2017 by bt50

[Blackout]

16 minutes ago, bt50 said:

Unpopular opinion, but i think the Lowy's just love the game and dont want to see all their hard work go backwards.
In saying that, I dont think they've gone about it anywhere close to the right way, and have not done a good job at all since the handover. Outcome and intention aren't always mutually exclusive.

For me the Lowy's represent an over-protective father that doesnt want their daughter to date boys or have a life until they deem them ready, even though they are into their teens. It's time to let the game stand on its own two feet and fuck a couple of bois.

A fairly apt analogy. I tend to agree for the most part; except this is more like having a daughter who is 35 and has a curfew.

[bt50]

Just now, Blackout said:

A fairly apt analogy. I tend to agree for the most part; except this is more like having a daughter who is 35 and has a curfew.

[jw1739]

45 minutes ago, bt50 said:

Unpopular opinion, but i think the Lowy's just love the game and dont want to see all their hard work go backwards.
In saying that, I dont think they've gone about it anywhere close to the right way, and have not done a good job at all since the handover. Outcome and intention aren't always mutually exclusive.

For me the Lowy's represent an over-protective father that doesnt want their daughter to date boys or have a life until they deem them ready, even though they are into their teens. It's time to let the game stand on its own two feet and fuck a couple of bois.

Almost. IMO that they don't want to see change because there's a risk that it could go backwards. The classic "stick to our strategic knitting" view that sees iconic businesses ultimately disappear because they just would not change what they had always done.

We all do it. It's natural. We're only enthusiastic about change when we can see that we will benefit from it.

[n i k o]

59 minutes ago, bt50 said:

Unpopular opinion, but i think the Lowy's just love the game and dont want to see all their hard work go backwards.
In saying that, I dont think they've gone about it anywhere close to the right way, and have not done a good job at all since the handover. Outcome and intention aren't always mutually exclusive.

For me the Lowy's represent an over-protective father that doesnt want their daughter to date boys or have a life until they deem them ready, even though they are into their teens. It's time to let the game stand on its own two feet and fuck a couple of bois.

Would agree this view is unpopular. I'd say it's a struggle for control and boils down to money rather than simply a love for the game. Lowy saw an opportunity to build a Westfield franchise system through football where he could sell them to owners and not give them any power or control in anything which in turn maximised his profits. And FFA have tried to maximise their returns through every avenue of the game, from exorbitant player registrations costs, to utilising bigger stadiums for worse atmosphere but higher profit margins. 

[bt50]

Just now, n i k o said:

Would agree this view is unpopular. I'd say it's a struggle for control and boils down to money rather than simply a love for the game. Lowy saw an opportunity to build a Westfield franchise system through football where he could sell them to owners and not give them any power or control in anything which in turn maximised his profits. And FFA have tried to maximise their returns through every avenue of the game, from exorbitant player registrations costs, to utilising bigger stadiums for worse atmosphere but higher profit margins. 

Agree they've done all of those things, but imo they seek profit consistently because they want to reinvest it into the game, not for any personal gain. Football in this country is so far under-resourced financially in comparison to the AFL and NRL, and they are forced to seek profit to fund things that the other codes dont have to : in particular the National Teams. Being a global game there is soooo much more costs associated with running those things than anything the other codes have to compete with, and they then dont have the resources to put into the things that would make an impact at the local level ; infrastructure, marketing, expansion, fans etc that the other codes are doing infinitely better.

It's catch 22 in a lot of situations because for example you cant make the marketing happen without the funds, and to get the funds you need the money. Usually they try to get that money by slugging the fans or players, and in turn they turn people away because of costs.

[n i k o]

14 minutes ago, bt50 said:

Agree they've done all of those things, but imo they seek profit consistently because they want to reinvest it into the game, not for any personal gain. Football in this country is so far under-resourced financially in comparison to the AFL and NRL, and they are forced to seek profit to fund things that the other codes dont have to : in particular the National Teams. Being a global game there is soooo much more costs associated with running those things than anything the other codes have to compete with, and they then dont have the resources to put into the things that would make an impact at the local level ; infrastructure, marketing, expansion, fans etc that the other codes are doing infinitely better.

It's catch 22 in a lot of situations because for example you cant make the marketing happen without the funds, and to get the funds you need the money. Usually they try to get that money by slugging the fans or players, and in turn they turn people away because of costs.

For the record the points you've made are completely valid, no matter who is in charge these are things that must be taken into consideration. The only point I don't agree with is the personal gain one. I wouldn't beleive for a second Lowy hasn't benefited finically from the league during his tenure, and now his son. 

Correct me if I'm wrong but when I read your post it basically sounds like we are stuck in the current situation we have now. We can't charge people more, yet we're not making money for more resources to be put towards those avenues that make an impact at local level. That's where I'd raise my questions to you as to what do we do then? 

I beleive there are deeper issues that revert back to the points I made in my previous post. I beleive Lowy has halted expansion as it would mean the voting power of the clubs would be forced to change thereby giving them more control. I believe infrastructure hasn't changed as it keeps the power at the finger tips of Lowy. I think marketing has halted because the FFA simply has too much on its plate (basically running branch of football in Australia plus ongoing distraction of a normalisation committee being instated). 

Edited December 8, 2017 by n i k o

[bt50]

7 minutes ago, n i k o said:

For the record the points you've made are completely valid, no matter who is in charge these are things that must be taken into consideration. The only point I don't agree with is the personal gain one. I wouldn't beleive for a second Lowy hasn't benefited finically from the league ov his tenure, and now his son. 

Correct me if I'm wrong but when I read your post it basically sounds like we are stuck in the current situation we have now. We can't charge people more, yet we're not making money for more resources to be put towards those avenues that make an impact at local level. That's where I'd raise my questions to you as to what do we do then? 

I beleive there are deeper issues that revert back to the points I made in my previous post. I beleive Lowy has halted expansion as it would mean the voting power of the clubs would be forced to change thereby giving them more control. I believe infrastructure hasn't changed as it keeps the power at the finger tips of Lowy. I think marketing has halted because the FFA simply has too much on its plate (basically running branch of football in Australia plus ongoing distraction of a normalisation committee being instated). 

We are in a holding pattern in the current set-up thats for sure. Lowy knows right now that the A League is funding the rest more than it should be and is scared of losing that cash avenue to the detriment of the rest of the game.

My personal belief? I think the A League needs to become independent and thereby its funding is backed by the owners, with the carrot of the profits going back to them.

The NT and grassroots will continue to be funded by the FFA, which is by and large funded by the Socceroos matches, grassroots registrations, the FFA Cup gate receipts and advertising for the national teams. Hopefully the Matildas can help fund this going forward, but as it stands they are certainly taking a lot more than they are earning. My guess is that like most codes atm, they hope the womens investment now will reap rewards going forward commercially. I  personally have my doubts whether it will ever truly take off though tbh.

Also let me qualify that by saying my personal belief is from what i've read and know of the industry, and certainly those higher up will be exposed to better facts, figures and realities than any of us will ever be. That's not to say that they are right and any of us are wrong, just that a lot of people seem happy to throw criticism around willy nilly without any real understanding of the facts at play.

Edited December 8, 2017 by bt50

[haz]

@bt50 @Niko

Finally a constructive conversation on this forum. Bravo!

[jw1739]

More general competition for the hearts and minds of the public with the announcement of a women's rugby union competition to start in 2018.

[jw1739]

Popovic has apparently thrown his hat in the ring for the Socceroos job.

https://www.foxsports.com.au/football/socceroos/tony-popovic-sacked-karabukspor-coach-throws-hat-into-the-ring-for-socceroos-top-job/news-story/4f58fdd62b8d2db5b0ab9a5ef02d05b2