The APL/FA Management Thread

[haz]

To me these are the order of expansion teams

1. South Melbourne -> due to their existing facilities, fan base and "Finances"

2. Tasmania -> With government backing and no professional team, it should be a no-brainer.

3. Wollongong-> They have win-stadium, and the geological location needs a team. (As tesla said above, a South Sydney team that covers a large area won't work)

4. Brisbane Strikers -> Only if they upgrade Perry Park to 15k-20k

5. Geelong -> They have put forward a decent plan (with a shit name) and want to construct a stadium, if Victory fans jump ship they should have decent crowds

5. Canberra -> Similar to Wollongong

7. Auckland -> Only if Wellington are guaranteed to stay in the league.

Edited March 8, 2017 by haz

[Tesla]

Auckland would be top of my list, I believe in making this am Australian and NZ league and you can't ignore a population that big. The NZ FA would be on board, hopefully even government. There has to be investors out there as well. 

[jw1739]

Forget Tasmania. People talk of it as if it's a single unified entity, and it's nothing of the sort. And there simply isn't the public support for soccer.

Just now, Tesla said:

Auckland would be top of my list, I believe in making this am Australian and NZ league and you can't ignore a population that big. The NZ FA would be on board, hopefully even government. There has to be investors out there as well. 

What do you think of an "East Asian Super League" idea?

[Thrillhouse]

ffa will make sure their precious sydney fc don't have to fly anywhere extra, 9 times a season is way too much 

[Tesla]

15 minutes ago, jw1739 said:

Forget Tasmania. People talk of it as if it's a single unified entity, and it's nothing of the sort. And there simply isn't the public support for soccer.

What do you think of an "East Asian Super League" idea?

That's probably taking it too far, and FIFA wouldn't like it. But I think NZ being part of our league is fine, similar situation to the MLS.

There are just too many issues with the SEA idea. Firstly you've got much less developed economies, basically just relying on pure population from a financial side. Stadiums will surely not be of a great standard. Corruption and match fixing, I don't trust the region one bit in this regard. Geographically it starts to get too big. And like I said FIFA won't like a regional superleague. The only country I would really be interested in is Singapore, but it's too far away to just include a team from there.

Maybe one day we can have a regional 'champions league' style competition for SEA, but as for our main league I don't like it. 

[Tesla]

With NZ it needs to be all or nothing. That means at least 2 teams (can't see anymore being viable unless we have 2 divisions one day), and not counting kiwis as foreigners for any team. Currently Wellington have an advantage in that they can sign Kiwis and Aussies and neither counts to the foreign player limit. But for everyone else Kiwis do. Of course we need the NZ FA fully behind it as well, which I don't think is an issue,  and perhaps involved as a stakeholder now that the idea of decentralising the league is getting traction.

[Tesla]

What do people think of the idea of selling off part or all of the league to investors? I don't mind it at all tbh, it could be huge for the league. Someone to invest some money now into greater prize money and marketing hoping it will grow the league and make them a return.

Better yet, each team owns a share like the MLS. It's doable even if every club couldn't afford to pay up now, eg an investor could buy a slot in the competition and then lease it to a club for a fee. Not ideal that way but if all clubs can't afford it right now it makes it possible. 

[belaguttman]

1 hour ago, Tesla said:

What do people think of the idea of selling off part or all of the league to investors? I don't mind it at all tbh, it could be huge for the league. Someone to invest some money now into greater prize money and marketing hoping it will grow the league and make them a return.

Better yet, each team owns a share like the MLS. It's doable even if every club couldn't afford to pay up now, eg an investor could buy a slot in the competition and then lease it to a club for a fee. Not ideal that way but if all clubs can't afford it right now it makes it possible. 

As long as it doesn't include Sidwell or any others from the Heart consortium

1 hour ago, Thrillhouse said:

ffa will make sure their precious sydney fc don't have to fly anywhere extra, 9 times a season is way too much 

Where is there to fly too? Is there anything to Australia beyond Sydney and its immediate surroundings?

[jw1739]

1 hour ago, Tesla said:

With NZ it needs to be all or nothing. That means at least 2 teams (can't see anymore being viable unless we have 2 divisions one day), and not counting kiwis as foreigners for any team. Currently Wellington have an advantage in that they can sign Kiwis and Aussies and neither counts to the foreign player limit. But for everyone else Kiwis do. Of course we need the NZ FA fully behind it as well, which I don't think is an issue,  and perhaps involved as a stakeholder now that the idea of decentralising the league is getting traction.

The problem with NZ is their membership of the Oceania Confederation. AFAIK if Wellington were to  be Premiers or Champions they would not be eligible to play in the ACL. Also FFA is not exactly welcoming towards Wellington even now - IIRC they have only a 4-year licence extension, and they have to play all their FFA Cup matches in Australia.

But all these things are fixable; just needs goodwill and a determination by all parties to get over the road-blocks.

[Tesla]

55 minutes ago, jw1739 said:

AFAIK if Wellington were to  be Premiers or Champions they would not be eligible to play in the ACL. 

I dont see why thats an issue TBH if Wellington themselves dont have a problem with it. Next best Australian team gets the spot, simple.

[Shahanga]

A few things. The franchises short term view on expansion makes me very cautious about letting them control the league. I see short term self interest as the logical outcome, to the detriment of the game. As far private ownership, hey I'm a capitalist, but that would be a disaster.  owners only being interested in how much cash they could strip out quickly?. No Thanks.

as for promotion/relegation need an A2 league before this can happen. I think that could be established fairly soon and should be (but won't)

[Tesla]

You dont have to sell them a majority share

[jw1739]

14 hours ago, Tesla said:

I dont see why thats an issue TBH if Wellington themselves dont have a problem with it. Next best Australian team gets the spot, simple.

It would be absurd if Wellington and Auckland were 1st and 2nd...

I completely agree with your comments above on where new clubs should (or should not) be located. As well as the problems of getting a financially sustainable club going outside the major population centres, I just don't see quality players, particularly visas and marquees, being attracted to some regional backwater.

[belaguttman]

30 minutes ago, jw1739 said:

It would be absurd if Wellington and Auckland were 1st and 2nd...

I completely agree with your comments above on where new clubs should (or should not) be located. As well as the problems of getting a financially sustainable club going outside the major population centres, I just don't see quality players, particularly visas and marquees, being attracted to some regional backwater.

Don't forget that our regional backwater is an overseas star's 'exotic location' usually with a great beach or local sights and comparatively safe family environments

[jw1739]

A lot about the Geelong bid here: https://twitter.com/Patriots_FC

[haz]

2 hours ago, jw1739 said:

A lot about the Geelong bid here: https://twitter.com/Patriots_FC

Honestly is the worst name, either change Patriots or change Victoria to Geelong.

[Nate]

42 minutes ago, haz said:

Honestly is the worst name, either change Patriots or change Victoria to Geelong.

pretty sure it's just the name of the bid, something simple like Geelong Athletic could work.

[haz]

8 minutes ago, Nate said:

pretty sure it's just the name of the bid, something simple like Geelong Athletic could work.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Association_football_club_names

Good list of typical origin of club names. 90% are better then "Patriots" even the Finnish 3rd Division team called "FC Santa Claus".

[Tesla]

Patriots? Alt right club, fight them!!! 

[Blackout]

3 hours ago, haz said:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Association_football_club_names

Good list of typical origin of club names. 90% are better then "Patriots" even the Finnish 3rd Division team called "FC Santa Claus".

I love how some Yank has clearly tried to pass their favourite MLS teams' names off as some sort of naming convention.

[GreenSeater]

Only 11k to top of the league Sydney FC's home game on a Friday night against a local rival tonight and they want a third Sydney team? Surely a pisstake?

[Tesla]

17 hours ago, GreenSeater said:

Only 11k to top of the league Sydney FC's home game on a Friday night against a local rival tonight and they want a third Sydney team? Surely a pisstake?

11k is still more than Muswellbrook FC or whatever the fuck bumpkin town the average A-League fan gets a hard over expanding to. 

[Dylan]

Wouldn't be surprised if the salary cap is gone or severely diminished before the start of next season 

[jw1739]

3 hours ago, Dylan said:

Wouldn't be surprised if the salary cap is gone or severely diminished before the start of next season 

I take it you mean "significantly increased" rather than "severely diminished"?

But why do you think there will be any change? I agree it's necessary, or at least very desirable, but wouldn't a change at this particular time make it even more difficult - financially - for new clubs to join the league?

[Dylan]

2 hours ago, jw1739 said:

I take it you mean "significantly increased" rather than "severely diminished"?

But why do you think there will be any change? I agree it's necessary, or at least very desirable, but wouldn't a change at this particular time make it even more difficult - financially - for new clubs to join the league?

Yeah sorry I mean diminished in its effect on squads. 

There just seems to be a lot in the media to scrap it atm, coupled with the FFA usually bowing to media pressure and the aleague clubs getting more independence.

FWIW I've argued for a while that all visa spots should be exempt for the cap or at least 5 spots outside the cap if there is an Australian player (Cahill) outside the cap. I've finally started seeing it pop up on twitter along with aleague transfer fees.

on another topic there is no restriction on spending for coaching staff I just hope we pour all our money in that rather than another marquee player

[Young Polak]

http://www.canberratimes.com.au/sport/soccer/national-second-division-is-kicking-off-with-or-without-ffa-20170311-guw6lx.html

 

A second division is off and running, whether Football Federation Australia likes it or not. Semi-pro clubs from across the country are about to gather in Melbourne to kick-start a process which could well see a nationwide competition established in 2018. Good for them.

Tired of waiting for an outstretched arm from the FFA, the more ambitious semi-pro clubs are taking matters into their own hands. It was always going to happen in a vacuum of leadership and strategy. The only question was when. So now the ball's rolling, it's going to be impossible to stop.

The smart move from Whitlam Square would be to allow events to run their course. The worst move would be to try and crush the spirit of adventure. Truth is, the FFA has very little interest in doing the heavy lifting to create a nationwide second tier. It reckons it has got far more important issues on its plate. So why not let others do it for it?

There's no shortage of takers. What the arrival of the FFA Cup three years ago has done is revitalise this level of the game. But a knockout competition – by definition – can never really satisfy the desire for opportunity, or status. That comes with a competition which last for months, not 90 minutes. So having tasted the lights, camera, action of the splendid FFA Cup, there's a hunger for much more.

Last week the first step was taken with the formation of an association to represent every state and territory in the National Premier Leagues system. That's 128 clubs. Only Victorian clubs attended the first meeting. But at the forthcoming gathering, clubs are flying into Melbourne from around the nation.

Among those on the interstate roll-call are Sydney United, Edgeworth Eagles, South Hobart, Perth SC, Hobart Zebras, West Adelaide, Canberra FC, Adelaide City, Sunshine Coast Fire, Marconi Stallions, Brisbane Strikers and APIA-Leichhardt. By the time you read this, there could well be plenty more. What's not in doubt is the huge level of enthusiasm to create a competition underneath the A-League. If we're talking about, say, a 14-team competition the hard part won't be finding enough clubs to participate, it will be who gets left out.

On that score, it's critical the lessons of the NSL are learnt. Why the NSL? Because many of the clubs who are prime movers in the push for a second division are survivors from that era. The NSL foundered not because of its concept, but because of its management. It was never independent of its clubs, so it was never free of vested interests. A second division will only flourish if it is formed, and then run, by an independent administration. That's the key.

But flourish it can. The FFA will scoff and patronise those who are pursuing the dream, suggesting if the A-League can't make ends meet, how on earth can a second-tier league sustain itself in the most competitive, and hostile, sporting marketplace on earth. I'll tell you why. Because a second division will unlock the vast capital which underlies the biggest participation sport in the country. Investors will spend if they see a reason to spend. The FFA can't give them that reason, so it doesn't know where the money's hiding. But it's there.

In the current mood, a second division is inevitable. There's an acceptance that promotion and relegation with the A-League can wait. But a second tier can't. So 2018 is the target.

The NPL clubs want it, the state federations want it, and the players' union, the PFA, is already modelling it. The NPL clubs want it for opportunity. The state federations want it for relevance. The PFA want it for development. They are all reasonable, healthy, objectives. There needs to be a level above the state-based NPL competitions to tap into commercial and broadcasting revenue, and to give players and coaches a crucial step on the pathway.

Australia is one of only a handful of countries in the world without a second tier. Football is arguably the only sport in Australia with the capacity to have a professional second tier. Everyone can see it, but the FFA won't do anything about it. So others are taking matters into their own hands. Can you blame them?

 

[moops]

https://audioboom.com/posts/5692794-former-ffa-board-member-socceroo-legend-jack-reilly-on-the-state-of-the-game?t=0

[HEARTinator]

http://www.theage.com.au/sport/soccer/ffa-and-key-stakeholders-set-to-meet-as-reform-deadline-looms-ever-closer-20170312-guwfsf.html

Lynch in The Age says "Victoria's NPL clubs have spearheaded a new organisation of national NPL teams" that's why the first meeting was attended by Victorian clubs only. This  is much like the A-league clubs getting together and forming The Australia Professional Football Clubs Association. Which ever way you look at it the FFA is coming under plenty of pressure. An independent A-league would be a good start with the new independent league simply paying a license fee to FFA and getting on with the business of running itself and getting sponsorship, etc.

This is a letter outlining the formation of the new NPL association

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B3RD0MR1c8PxRTdCYXJVdGx2VWM/view

                                        

Edited March 12, 2017 by HEARTinator

[jw1739]

Well, it's all coming together now as the NPL clubs join the battle lines behind the A-League clubs, and FFA has only itself to blame. It has continually changed its position, timetables and priorities with just about everything to do with the game, and resisted all requests and opportunities for reform. The election of Stephen Lowy - dare I call him "Stephen Nepotism"? - was a disaster.

The entry of City Football Group into the A-League club ownership ranks was always going to eventually break FFA. Once you had an owner with an asset backing that could buy-and-sell FFA many times over without even noticing the transactions on its bottom line then change was inevitable. It's now a matter of "how soon" rather than "if."

Edited March 12, 2017 by jw1739

[Thrillhouse]

family friend reckons that south melbourne is behind the whole npl clubs get together
could possibly join the process and "vote" on behalf of a region while already being told what to vote for and how many votes 1 guy has
all fucking corrupt 

[Dylan]

10 hours ago, Thrillhouse said:

family friend reckons that south melbourne is behind the whole npl clubs get together
could possibly join the process and "vote" on behalf of a region while already being told what to vote for and how many votes 1 guy has
all fucking corrupt 

It wouldnt surprise me if they were. But if they get a national second division up and running then thats fine by me. Its going to be a long time before there is promotion/relegation in the Aleague but its a step in the right direction. 

I dont think they would let south in because I suspect FFA dont believe South when they say they have the money and the sponsorship required. Remember that shit they tried to pull with buying Heart out? Sidwell called their bluff so from then on ive always taken what south says with a bucket of salt

 

[jw1739]

2 hours ago, Dylan said:

It wouldnt surprise me if they were. But if they get a national second division up and running then thats fine by me. Its going to be a long time before there is promotion/relegation in the Aleague but its a step in the right direction. 

I dont think they would let south in because I suspect FFA dont believe South when they say they have the money and the sponsorship required. Remember that shit they tried to pull with buying Heart out? Sidwell called their bluff so from then on ive always taken what south says with a bucket of salt

If FFA doesn't support the formation of a national A2-League then I doubt that it will happen. There's a lot of difference between existing as a weekend football club on a regional basis and playing on a national basis.

[Baka1]

5 hours ago, Dylan said:

It wouldnt surprise me if they were. But if they get a national second division up and running then thats fine by me. Its going to be a long time before there is promotion/relegation in the Aleague but its a step in the right direction. 

I dont think they would let south in because I suspect FFA dont believe South when they say they have the money and the sponsorship required. Remember that shit they tried to pull with buying Heart out? Sidwell called their bluff so from then on ive always taken what south says with a bucket of salt

 

FFA know South has the cash trust me. They just cant pull the race card out, because that's what's stopping South being in the league. Which is fair enough.

[Shahanga]

5 hours ago, jw1739 said:

If FFA doesn't support the formation of a national A2-League then I doubt that it will happen. There's a lot of difference between existing as a weekend football club on a regional basis and playing on a national basis.

Pretty hard to have a national league without the support of the governing body. They would have so many ways to block it.

[haz]

.

 

Edited February 10, 2018 by haz

[haz]

 

[Baka1]

Soooo FFA are now allowing subgroup banners for the rest of the season?

[haz]

This is an article by the 442 user "aussieshorter", it goes into deep detail about how he would structure the football pyrimid in Australia and how pro/rel can be introduced. The article is quite long but has had many positive responses.

http://thepeckingorder.com.au/tpovision/

[Jovan]

3 hours ago, haz said:

This is an article by the 442 user "aussieshorter", it goes into deep detail about how he would structure the football pyrimid in Australia and how pro/rel can be introduced. The article is quite long but has had many positive responses.

http://thepeckingorder.com.au/tpovision/

Your right it is long. But well thought out and a great starting point at real long lasting reform.

Problem is too many narrow minded vested interested stakeholders will ignore it. 

[Blackout]

4 hours ago, Jovan said:

Your right it is long. But well thought out and a great starting point at real long lasting reform.

Problem is too many narrow minded vested interested stakeholders will ignore it. 

Pfftt... I'll have my pretty colours like the Whole of Football Plan any day. This guy didn't even use publisher.