The APL/FA Management Thread

[jw1739]

1 hour ago, rass said:

Hey JW, can you change the title then please? I just see a stoush between active and FFA when i see this thread.

It really should be renamed and moved to "Australian Football" I think. I'll consult the others.

[AntiScum]

30 minutes ago, n i k o said:

Rebecca Wilson in a Daily Telegraph piece last Friday (27/11) said she was told that Steven Lowy, would not reply to her phone calls because this “was not a chairman’s issue”. Bad move.

Why would you return her phone call when she is a filthy, LYING, MANIPULATIVE, condescending, men hating bogan terrorist!!

Edited December 3, 2015 by AntiScum

[AyeCee]

You're all being played.

FFA are delibrately positioning the situation so that the lack of appeal process becomes the key issue, and that the other, more difficult problems are forgotten about.

Just watch, they'll come out in the next few days with some weak arse appeal system, which will now allow for 1, maybe even 2, banned fans to return to games. Media will applaud them for listening to the fans, and those who have protested will be so caught up in a circle jerk over how they 'forced' the FFA to act that they'll forget all the other important shit.

FFA manage to avoid conflict with News Corp, regain a large amount of goodwill, and don't have to address the more difficult issues of privacy invasion and misunderstanding of fan culture, along with their blatantly incompetent administration.

That being said, they do tend to be completely retarded in whatever they do, so I wouldn't be surprised if they have actually fucked this whole situation up accidentally.

 

[belaguttman]

Andrew woodward has missed the point a bit, if the relationship between FFA and active fans was good then people would just be criticising Rebecca Wilson's privacy breach. As AyeCee says the appeals process is a sideshow to the real issue, the relationship. I'm not sure that FFA realise that this relationship will be a big contributor to the 'product' that FFA have to sell to TV networks. He pays lip service to it but his actions tend to ignore it. Poor strategy as it will reduce the value of the product that he is trying to sell.

I'd actually suggest a different strategy for FFA, Foxtel have no major summer sport now apart from HAL. They've lost EPL but will likely try to pick up another league, Bundesliga os the obvious choice (and better football than EPL anyway), This puts FFA in a stronger bargaining position unless the anti-siphoning laws are changed. I'd tell Murdoch's lackeys to fuck off unless Murdoch whips them into line, and look to a FTA broadcast deal to escape Murdoch. If he's determined to keep HAL then he'll have top pay for it. Unless they do something like this FFA just remain hostage to Murdoch's machinations

Edited December 3, 2015 by belaguttman

[AntiScum]

24 minutes ago, AyeCee said:

FFA manage to avoid conflict with News Corp, regain a large amount of goodwill, and don't have to address the more difficult issues of privacy invasion and misunderstanding of fan culture, along with their blatantly incompetent administration.

24 minutes ago, AyeCee said:

 

This wont go away you have my word. Those involved already have legal representation.

[bt50]

FFA have called another press conference for 2PM

[thisphantomfortress]

Just now, bt50 said:

FFA have called another press conference for 2PM

Calling it now, things about to get worse 

[AntiScum]

16 minutes ago, bt50 said:

FFA have called another press conference for 2PM

I recon Gallop will be given his marching orders

[strider]

OH SHIT ALMOST TIME TO STREAM IT!~

[Shahanga]

1 hour ago, thisphantomfortress said:

Calling it now, things about to get worse 

Going to throw some more petrol on the fire?

[n i k o]

An open letter from Sydney FC Chief Executive Officer Tony Pignata.

Recent media commentary regarding 198 individuals banned by FFA from attending football games, has branded them as “thugs” and “suburban terrorists”. This characterisation is wrong, it is provocative and, especially in light of broader world issues at the moment, it is offensive and defamatory.
No-one involved with football in Australia condones anti-social behaviour. That is why we have a banning process.
In the ten years since the establishment of the A-League, more than 15 million people have attended games; the 198 who are currently banned equate to approximately 0.0013% of all attendees.
The fact is that the A-League environment is one that is fun, relaxed, safe and secure, and we aim to keep it that way. The overwhelming majority of football fans are good, decent people who love their team and attend matches for a family outing, for entertainment and to spend some time with friends.
Different supporters enjoy their football differently. Many kids just love to run around the perimeter of the field hoping to catch the eye of their favourite player. Many adults like to follow every ball that is kicked or headed, every run off the ball, and applaud, cheer or jeer as they see fit. And there are also the passionate, loud, terrific active supporters who give football that something extra-special which other sports cannot hope to do. All of these supporters are welcome any day at Sydney FC, and any other A-League club.
Fans who walked out of games on the weekend have also been criticised on the basis that they support the 198 individuals. This is also wrong.
Fans walked out of games on the weekend because the 198, who range from children under 18 through to adults, have no mechanism by which to challenge their ban if they feel they have been incorrectly banned. The rule of law suggests that they should be afforded the presumption of innocence and natural justice would see them have their proverbial day in court. The current regulatory framework doesn’t allow this to happen; and this is why A-League fans made a silent, peaceful and effective protest on the weekend.
Fans want to see an appeals mechanism introduced, not because they support the anti-social behaviour of a small number of fans but because people should have a right to contest the claims against them.
Every A-League club works professionally and diligently with active supporter groups, police, venue management and FFA and their security advisors to ensure a fun, family environment at matches. We do not welcome those who want to behave badly. Neither do 99.998% of the fans who attend.
I invite Rebecca Wilson, Alan Jones, Susie O’Brien or any of the media representatives who have taken a pot-shot at the A-League in the past week or so, and who have used defamatory terms such as “suburban terrorists”, to join me at a match any time. Walk with me around the stadium; away from the VIP lounge or the media box, and talk to the family groups, watch kids running around or join our active supporters in The Cove.
You won’t feel unsafe. You won’t feel at risk. You won’t find a “suburban terrorist” or a “thug. In fact, you might just be surprised quite how much you enjoy it.

Tony Pignata
Tony Pignata is Chief Executive Officer of Sydney FC

Read more at http://www.sydneyfc.com/article/no-terrorists-suburban-or-otherwise/nsunnylyx2ja13740x6xgeggs#Iqrv6WszEdgWWLL6.99

[strider]

behead the media !

[strider]

this is going nowhere... lol... let me games begin you dumb kents 

[belaguttman]

Lowy and Gallop sound like they are reading a series of comments trawled from social media by Hamatomo

Edited December 3, 2015 by belaguttman

[AntiScum]

im done with football in this country. best wishes to you all!!

sugarcoated shit read out by a couple of puppets!!

[Nate]

didn't watch the press conference, anything noteworthy?

[belaguttman]

7 minutes ago, Nate said:

didn't watch the press conference, anything noteworthy?

Yes, FFA had Hamatomo assemble a collection of soundbite commentary from social media and read it out in a sort of stream of consciousness speech. The themes were 'we won't tolerate anti-social behaviour (message to sponsors), we are standing top for the game, we are standing up for 99.9990% of fans and we'll review the guidelines around banning spectators and an appeal process.There were a series of indistinct questions where they replied by saying all the right things about consultation, listening to fans, we got it wrong etc.

Overall grade: D minus

The proof of the pudding will be in how FFA respond to all of this. Unfortunately there were no questions about the over-the-top Police and security presence or about the role of Hamatomo.

[hakz7]

The derby will be a shambles, the way everything's being handled

[belaguttman]

FFA's problem is that basically all they have offered is promises and an apology. Fans have so little faith in them that ts hard to know what to make of it. They would have helped themselves of they offered something symbolic and immediate as a show of goodwill. What I would have done os an offer for all senior FFA officials to come and sit in active support areas this round of matches, specifically to observe and listen. Instead all we have is vague promises

Edited December 3, 2015 by belaguttman

[hakz7]

5 minutes ago, belaguttman said:

FFA's problem is that basically all they have offered is promises and an apology. Fans have so little faith in them that ts hard to know what to make of it. They would have helped themselves of they offered something symbolic and immediate as a show of goodwill. What I would have done os an offer for all senior FFA officials to come and sit in active support areas this round of matches, specifically to observe and listen. Instead all we have is vague promises

Well, they wouldn't want to be among a bunch of animals and terrorists.

[jw1739]

OMG never did I think I would see the "Back in the Citadel" approach again. Having publicly executed some alleged troublemakers (the 198) the occupying army (FFA) has been caught out in the open and bloodied. It has called up reinforcements and mercenaries (Lowy, Hatamoto) and retreated inside the walls. From the walls the army commander (Gallop) has addressed the rebellious tribes (clubs and their fans) circling outside calling for them to accept that the army bears them only goodwill and is there only for their own protection, and the siege begins again.

Whoever is advising FFA is about 25 years behind the times.

[Jestr]

On 27 November 2015 7:16:38 am, Shahanga said:

6 hours ago, bumpyknuckles said:

I have been to the boxing day test a few times.

It is by far the most sexist, racist, filthy crowd of humans I have experienced.

So you haven't been to derby at etihad yet..... Surprising. 

[n i k o]

Responses to Gallops press conference the other day

http://wof.audio/world-of-football-011215/

[hedaik]

1 hour ago, belaguttman said:

 offer for all senior FFA officials to come and sit in active support areas 

Ban list would probably go up to 50000 if that happened

[belaguttman]

3 hours ago, hedaik said:

Ban list would probably go up to 50000 if that happened

Or they'd get some common sense and see how they should modify their criteria or the few difficult fans would behave better

[Southy]

You may or may not know me, we are all fronting some serious times a head. In the Active end I'm a part of, we have a lot of differing opinions on what is the right thing to do and how to move forward. 
I would expect your leadership have been working on your next steps and holding the home end best interest at the center of their decisions . 
Unity in this will get results unity in active ends will bring change. Don't undermine carefully thought out positioning by your leadership I would hold some hope that this time next week we could get some resolutions. 

good luck 

[ecguymer]

Well, this season has started with the lowest match attendance this season.....

[jw1739]

FFA scrambling now to be seen to do the right thing.

http://www.a-league.com.au/article/ffa-moves-a-league-and-w-league-matches-back-due-to-heat/1m6emzbj8zzm015jomdefq2rec

This is the next stage after "Back in the Citadel." It's where the army seeks to draw up new peace accords with the less aggressive of the rebellious tribes to try to isolate and weaken the resolve of the more aggressive ones.

Edited December 4, 2015 by jw1739

[KD.]

***MELBURNIANS STATEMENT***

What a brilliant win the boys delivered us last night, in the midst of all the controversy and frustration that is overwhelming active supporters league-wide, it was good to see the lads bring home 3 points!

We would like to start this post by reiterating that the issues facing active supporters and fans league-wide at the moment go much deeper than the bans and appeals process. This is just one point of issue that supporters have with the FFA, we are not sticking up for the minority of supporters who do the wrong thing, but we are standing firm that people accused of a crime should have the right of appeal.

On the back of the FFA press conference yesterday, the Melburnians leadership met with the club, as we do on a regular basis anyway. The point we want to stress is that the club and the players know that these protests aren’t against them, they know that this is about the FFA’s treatment of fans, and they know that this battle is fought in the hope that active support will have many unnecessary restrictions removed in order to help us create a better match-day atmosphere.

The FFA's continued referral to a "zero tolerance approach to anti-social behaviour" is not the issue. What is an issue is implementing this process in a fair and transparent manner for those accused of wrongdoing.

As well, we want to see standardised processes regarding tifos and displays. The FFA regularly have different answers and responses as to what is and isn’t allowed on match days, which makes planning displays difficult and in some cases impossible.

Finally, what we really want is greater recognition of fans as stakeholders and increased communication between the FFA and fans. The FFA cannot say they are listening to supporters if they won’t speak to them.

These concerns are shared by all active supporter groups, and waiting until February for the FFA to finalise their response to the lack of appeals and the absence of any commitment to deal with these urgent fan engagement issues is simply not good enough.

Boycott action will continue indefinitely until we are satisfied that our concerns have been addressed by the governing body and the matter is resolved.

https://www.facebook.com/melburnians1847/posts/481274458717493

[n i k o]

Crowd before the game in a few moments...

 

[belaguttman]

It sounds like an AFL game

[jw1739]

21 hours ago, KD. said:

***MELBURNIANS STATEMENT***

What a brilliant win the boys delivered us last night, in the midst of all the controversy and frustration that is overwhelming active supporters league-wide, it was good to see the lads bring home 3 points!

We would like to start this post by reiterating that the issues facing active supporters and fans league-wide at the moment go much deeper than the bans and appeals process. This is just one point of issue that supporters have with the FFA, we are not sticking up for the minority of supporters who do the wrong thing, but we are standing firm that people accused of a crime should have the right of appeal.

On the back of the FFA press conference yesterday, the Melburnians leadership met with the club, as we do on a regular basis anyway. The point we want to stress is that the club and the players know that these protests aren’t against them, they know that this is about the FFA’s treatment of fans, and they know that this battle is fought in the hope that active support will have many unnecessary restrictions removed in order to help us create a better match-day atmosphere.

The FFA's continued referral to a "zero tolerance approach to anti-social behaviour" is not the issue. What is an issue is implementing this process in a fair and transparent manner for those accused of wrongdoing.

As well, we want to see standardised processes regarding tifos and displays. The FFA regularly have different answers and responses as to what is and isn’t allowed on match days, which makes planning displays difficult and in some cases impossible.

Finally, what we really want is greater recognition of fans as stakeholders and increased communication between the FFA and fans. The FFA cannot say they are listening to supporters if they won’t speak to them.

These concerns are shared by all active supporter groups, and waiting until February for the FFA to finalise their response to the lack of appeals and the absence of any commitment to deal with these urgent fan engagement issues is simply not good enough.

Boycott action will continue indefinitely until we are satisfied that our concerns have been addressed by the governing body and the matter is resolved.

https://www.facebook.com/melburnians1847/posts/481274458717493

IMO, the repeated use of the highlighted phrase above by FFA  is one of the most important aspects of this whole sorry business. Its repeated use gives the impression to those outside football that the game in its entirety is rife with anti-social behaviour, and FFA bleats it so frequently that FFA itself has begun to believe that that is the case. The statistics, as demonstrated by Tony Pignata and others, tell completely the opposite story. Even if every one of the 198 deserve their ban (which I doubt), they are just 198 people over some 7-8 seasons, however many matches that actually is. It is a miniscule percentage of those who attend football matches.
Having procedures in place to combat anti-social behaviour is a pretty standard practice throughout a civilised society. If every corporate communication from, say, Westfield started with the phrase "We have a zero tolerance approach to anti-social behaviour in our shopping centres" then would that be good for Westfield's business? A security guard standing outside every single shop within the shopping centre? No, certainly not, because it gives the impression that if you go to Southland (or other some centre) you're likely to experience anti-social behaviour on a regular basis.
Then why does FFA deliberately repeat over and over again a message that acts to keep people away from attending the game that its aim is actually to nurture and grow? Beats me.

The trigger for the present situation might well be the 198 and the principle of natural justice, but IMO there are a number of fundamental issues involving the administration of the game by FFA that must be dealt with at the same time. 

Edited December 4, 2015 by jw1739

[Jestr]

totally opposite approach by MLS

with excellent results 

http://www.fourfourtwo.com/au/features/ffa-five-ways-mls-embraced-fanatics-and-won#:YAQCNwvexmMIjA

[Blackout]

40 minutes ago, Jestr said:

totally opposite approach by MLS

with excellent results 

http://www.fourfourtwo.com/au/features/ffa-five-ways-mls-embraced-fanatics-and-won#:YAQCNwvexmMIjA

Had to laugh at the two NY supporter groups getting into each other with 'faux English accents'.

[belaguttman]

14 hours ago, Blackout said:

Had to laugh at the two NY supporter groups getting into each other with 'faux English accents'.

Good grief, next we'll be drinking warm beer

[jeffplz]

can anyone from active support comment on this?

 

http://www.smh.com.au/sport/soccer/sydney-fc/rival-aleague-fans-unite-for-extraordinary-meeting-to-force-change-from-ffa-20151205-glgaum.html

 

Rival A-League fans unite for extraordinary meeting to force change from FFA

Date

 

One of the most remarkable meetings in the history of Australian football is set to take place next week when representatives of all 10 A-League active supporter groups join forces to combat Football Federation of Australia's fan management policies.

Sets of fans that previously had to be separated by lines of security guards, mounted officers and seated at opposite ends of the stadium will sit down at the same table in Sydney on Wednesday.

United we stand: Supporter groups will come together in Sydney to discuss their plan of action. Photo: Getty Images

Despite some supporter groups being involved in clashes in the past, some violent, they have put aside all differences to unite in seeking a proper appeals process to banning notices and improved crowd management systems.

The union of supporters is the latest development in the bitter fan war with the FFA, led by Western Sydney Wanderers' Red and Black Bloc, Sydney FC's The Cove and North Terrace of Melbourne Victory. The three largest supporter groups will be joined by supporters of the seven other A-League clubs who are travelling from as far as New Zealand and Perth to attend the meeting. Fairfax Media understands the meeting was arranged by, and some travel costs covered by, a third party – in conjunction with some clubs.

Representatives of all 10 groups were in regular dialogue last week and drafted a Memorandum of Understanding that will be presented to the FFA. The consortium is understood to be in agreement with most clauses of the MOU, which will be finalised at the extraordinary meeting in Sydney.

The overriding issue for fans is the absence of an appeals process for innocent fans who have received bans and the lack of transparency provided by the FFA to banned supporters. A-League fans claim there is no presumption of innocence provided to spectators by police, the FFA and security firms and are critical of the FFA's reluctance to publicly defend the reputation of members despite praising the atmosphere they create at games.

Over the past fortnight, News Corp columnists labelled them "suburban terrorists", NSW Police called fans "grubs" and radio commentator Alan Jones likened the situation to the Paris terrorist attacks.

Another concern remains the enforcement of the FFA-employed security firm Hatamoto. Fan groups criticised Hatamoto for alleged intimidation tactics, spying on supporters and a heavy-handed approach.

Fairfax Media sought comment from the leadership groups of The Cove, RBB and North Terrace. All three declined but earlier in the week released statements listing their demands and frustrations.

"The FFA cannot use the fans as a marketing tool but then continually mistreat them, while asking them to help grow the game. It is counter-intuitive and hypocritical," the RBB statement read.

The Cove echoed the sentiments. "We have heard the FFA's words, but talk is cheap, and we've heard many different versions of what will be done in the last week. There is a need for immediate change with the FFA's procedures and how it manages its relationship with fans," the group said.

Supporters across the competition held up their promise to boycott games on the weekend. The Cove left the northern end of Allianz Stadium empty for the first time in the 11 years of the club's history. The Wanderers' loyal supporters, the RBB, abandoned their post at Pirtek Stadium, leaving the venue silent for Saturday night's clash against Brisbane.

The protest was in response to the FFA's handling of banned spectators in the fallout from News Corp's naming and shaming of 198 fans. Fans were further incensed by comments by FFA chief executive David Gallop on Tuesday. The groups said they were encouraged by a clarification from chairman Steven Lowy, which was a step in the right direction but not sufficient to placate them.

[HEARTinator]

Well, is Wednesday to time to form a Football Supporters Association, starting with reps from all A-league clubs? The idea being that issues like this one that impacts across all clubs can be represented on behalf of all fans to the FFA. But importantly, engage with other stakeholder like police, pollies, etc. The fans are starting to have a powerful voice.

[jw1739]

At the moment this is all being driven by the shabby treatment of active supporter groups. To a large extent, all other supporters, and particularly those who are members (season-ticket holders), still remain disenfranchised unless their own local club management decides to allow them a voice. I don't know about the other nine, but in City's case we do have the FRG and now City Voice, so at least we've made a start.

But it's no use waiting for the perfect solution before doing anything, and a start has to made somewhere, particularly after the shambolic performance of FFA over these past few days. I don't know them from Adam, but personal thanks to those in Melburnians who are participating in this effort. The game cannot grow if the status quo is continued.

[Santos]

Hi - I am a GA member since the foundation of the old Heart, but not in the active supporter group. How can I lend my support to show solidarity to this cause? What Twitter hashtag should I follow to find out if, for example, we are boycotting the derby? That these (mostly young) supporters have been publicly shamed and had their privacy breached (morally if not legally) for actions there is no proof that they have committed, is deeply troubling.

[Pete Heartspur]

Must be a pretty strong fence the red army are sitting on!