Heart of Melbourne FC- a proposed supporters club

[True Until I die]

SIGNPOST: this post is merely trying to explore interest of the supporters and more to see what people's views on the club as it is today really is like.

Hi all,

Given the results over the last few weeks and discussions on the Melbourne city fans facebook groups, I have noted a lot of continued resentment from supporters towards cfg and the change in name colours etc. Obviously what's done is done and there is no way to change that. Supporters have moved on and a lot of people have moved with city. Though for a lot of people I have spoken to, there is a distinctly lower level of satisfaction with the team and the overall experience despite the fact that the club is performing much better on the field.

For a number of supporters, the club isn't as special as it once was, with people saying they thought the Heart- who even though they lost many games, felt like a real club.

This brings me to my subject of discussion. What are peoples views on the notion of a 'heart of Melbourne fc' team. Run by the supporters of the heart who are keen to have a kick around, and re-live the club they once supported so passionately. I'd imagine the team would play in ffv metro or equivalent sort of comp and see where it goes from there.

The example of this overseas is FC United of Manchester: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/F.C._United_of_Manchester#Colours_and_badge and whilst obviously this is a very different situation with much less supporters, I don't even think the club would need to be succesfuul in rising though the vic leagues, mainly just to keep the heart alive through football. I wonder how many supporters, teens, adults would want to be apart of the project as a player in this team or as a supporter.

The other example to bring up is the northern fury who picked up where the north queensland fury left off in the queensland NPL https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Northern_Fury_FC

Obviously it would be a major project requiring a great deal of time and effort, but I know speaking off my own experience, city games just don't get me excited like the heart did.

So not looking for some sort of 'terrible idea' or 'just move on with cfg' response here, just trying to float the possibility of what could actually be a really cool project as far as Australian football is concerned.  These are just my views though- and I could be one of a very small minority, but just putting it out there to see others views.

Looking forward to your responses and hearing your views.

[Wighty]

Tops idea

[KSK_47]

Depending on where the team played, I would probably be involved as a supporter (i am way too shit and unfit to actually play)

[agoalie]

I'm your starting goal keeper. 

[True Until I die]

I'm your starting goal keeper. 

that makes 3 so far who have put up their hand, at least there will be some competition for spots :)...

 

[Heart Inaugural]

Love the concept, will stay tuned!

[Andrew Edmonds]

I'll play! 

I'll play! 

and have a few mates and supporters who would!

[True Until I die]

I'll play! 

and have a few mates and supporters who would!

Edited November 3, 2015 by True Until I die

[morphine]

Keen to play and get involved in a media volunteer capacity if you were happy to have me :)

[haz]

I'm interested depending on the location 

[True Until I die]

Keen to play and get involved in a media volunteer capacity if you were in need

Edited November 3, 2015 by True Until I die

[Yants]

I was hoping this day would come.

Haven't played for 10 years . . . but count me in!

[True Until I die]

Just want to flag again that this is merely a proposition to see what other people's views are on this. And not to try and come across as an all knowing genius for this sort of difficult process.

[Jovan]

Great idea, very tough gig.

I've been involved with a team at very low level for a decade or so. To put a team together costs approx 10 to15k per year. The most crucial aspect of maintaining a side is getting access to a decent ground and in a location that will attract enough players. You need at least 20 to 25 players to committ financially per year and generally you need it up front. Also being a start up team you'll need extra funds to get equipment. Of the 20 or so paid up players you need at least 5 people to put in a lot of time to organise the running of the team. If you get enough willing people go for it. The biggest hurdle is getting a ground. If you can't find a suitable ground I would suggest it might be easier if you approach an existing lowish level club and look at putting together  a thirds side. 

Good luck.

[Jimmy]

I'd get along to games if it was done right. A team entered in the state system with the long term aim of reaching the highest levels would have my attention, a team of mates entered in some hack league however would not.

I'd do lower level volunteer stuff if i had faith in the people running it and it was a pretty professional operation. 

Edited November 3, 2015 by Jimmy

[kingofhearts]

Never played outdoor but played a fair but of indoor soccer. The skills are transferable right?

[True Until I die]

Great idea, very tough gig.

I've been involved with a team at very low level for a decade or so. To put a team together costs approx 10 to15k per year. The most crucial aspect of maintaining a side is getting access to a decent ground and in a location that will attract enough players. You need at least 20 to 25 players to committ financially per year and generally you need it up front. Also being a start up team you'll need extra funds to get equipment. Of the 20 or so paid up players you need at least 5 people to put in a lot of time to organise the running of the team. If you get enough willing people go for it. The biggest hurdle is getting a ground. If you can't find a suitable ground I would suggest it might be easier if you approach an existing lowish level club and look at putting together  a thirds side. 

Good luck.

good expertise. I think the way I brought up the idea may not necessarily be the most appropriate though in actually creating a supporter run 'club' and therefore yes, it would require quite a bit of funding and grounds etc. Its this sort of experience and help from everyone that would assist someone if they decide to go with the idea.

[Tesla]

It's interesting because I was actually approached with the same sort of idea not that long ago from another fan and member on here, who also claimed he knew a number of people interested in the idea as well.

At the time I said I thought it was an idea with merit but I cautioned as to the challenges and difficulty in undertaking a project of this nature. Basically, it wasn't something I was too interested in being heavily involved in myself but would have still liked to see it get off the ground and I'd probably be involved as a supporter if it did get off the ground.

That's still my position, but I think I provided some good information/ideas/cautions when talking to this person about their idea, so off the top of my head this is basically my $0.02:

First of all, it doesn't mean you still can't be a Melbourne City supporter, the state league season doesn't overlap much (not currently anyway).

Would need to be careful with regard to name, kit, etc., because the FFA (?) would still own the TMs for the Heart name, log, kit, etc

Costs would be more than expected and it would need to be researched heavily, good information from Jovan above that's actually less than I thought TBH. But also you'd have startup costs so 1st year you'd be looking at more than that.

You'd most likely be looking at an 'incorporated association' structure.

Crowd funding would be a good way to get the project off the ground, get a graphics designer on board and hopefully a video guy too, make some temporary/preliminary branding and get some sort of video together and then just try hustle some crowdfunding. So you could have different funding options, $25 just for a thank you and going down in history as one of the people that helped make the idea a reality, $100 for the same and a season ticket, $200 and it's a family season ticket, $500/1000/etc different sponsorship packages, etc. The idea with crowdfunding is to give a discount for people putting their money up early, not sure what a season ticket costs for state league clubs so that $100 is probably too much just an example.

As Jovan said, I also think one of the biggest challenge is getting a ground as I know it's something even established clubs struggle with (maintaining rights to their ground). Will be easier in a new outer suburban area, since they'd probably be no incumbent soccer team and there would probably be brand new facilities, but I think this sort of club would need to be based inner city. So that will be a huge task, tracking down and securing a suitable ground.

Most importantly, you're going to need a core group of people who are willing to put up a large part of their spare time to make it all happen. I know just how much time and effort it is running an active supporter group is, let lone a whole club. People are going to say how great an idea this is, how they'd love to be involved, and then when it comes to putting up their time/effort/money/etc. you won't get anything from them. So this core group of people basically need to be willing to do it all themselves and then if others do come through it's just a plus.

There is a cheaper/easier alternative to being in the official FFV structure, the VicSoccer league might be worth considering (IMO go the official FFV route but just saying VicSoccer would be cheaper/easier).

That's about it, but basically be willing to give up most your spare time if you are one of the people doing the legwork, good luck  

Edited November 3, 2015 by Tesla

[True Until I die]

I think you just about nail it on the head. Clearly it's an idea with good intentions , though whether people are prepared to commit their time/effort for what is a massive risk is another issue all together.

I can more than understand why you wouldn't want to drive it, or anyone else for that matter, which I guess brings the question, is it actually something we, as former heart supporters are really passionate about. If yes, then you are cooking with gas.

it is with this overall level of complexity involved why I suggested a very humble beginning as far as league structure is concerned.

Certainly things for everyone to ponder over

 

 

[Jimmy]

This sort of thing really needs one or two people with a bit of clout to grab it and run with it to get it started anyway. Take people along with them. 

[Jovan]

Vicsoccer is definitely a cheaper alternative. What needs to be established is this team/club a group of mates wanting a kick or does it have visions of developing into something more. I've seen many clubs fold because basically they make this mistake of not knowing what they want.

[Tesla]

This sort of thing really needs one or two people with a bit of clout to grab it and run with it to get it started anyway. Take people along with them. 

Yeah, if you know one of the criminals/psychopaths that are part of the council in the area you want to base the club it would be a big help. Put a bit of cash in an envelope, and I'm sure you'll have your choice of ground, at least that's how they did things in Brimbank until the council got sacked  

[Falastur]

Pardon my interjecting here - I'm not going to make any comments on this nor remain in this thread conversation any longer than this post, because one of my (unstated) rules with joining this forum as well as the NYCFC one was that I would always stay out of discussions on fan culture - you guys as the local should have the right to shape that without outside influence. However, I'm just trying to wrap my head around this, so I need to ask this question:

Is the point of this proposed club primarily to act as a protest against CFG ownership, or is it just to provide an alternative source of fan expression? That is to say, if you founded this club and it got established, would people look on this club as their primary team while Melbourne City becomes their source of professional football, or would Melbourne City remain "your club" while this just became a way of having fun in the company of footballing friends?

To put it in terms closer to what I am used to, there is a big difference between, as you cited, an FC United of Manchester, which exists to derive identity from the fact that it opposes the ownership of Manchester United, or a Maine Road FC, which exists to derive identity from that it is just meant to be a fan-run mini-City played in the lower leagues where supporters can be closer to the action.

[blue_evertonian]

I had a similar idea last year and set about establishing a club for Everton supporters - Melbourne Evertonians FC (MEFC). When I saw this idea about a 'Heart of Melbourne' club posted to the Melbourne City Fans FB group, I thought I would come across and drop my 2 cents. I imagine any potential Heart of Melbourne club would face the same obstacles I have faced this past year and a half. Below,  I've aimed to outline those obstacles and problems below.

 

Just for some context regarding MEFC - I set about establishing the club in 2014; neither myself nor any of those who became involved had any real experience in club management. in 2015 we ran an outdoor side (~17-18 players) in Vicsoccer's eastern Div 2, as well as two futsal teams based in the south-eastern suburbs. The club looks set to continue in future as a futsal club only. 

Commitment

Any startup club needs commitment from a number of people in order to function and survive. With MEFC we had a handful of people say they would be involved in running the club, but in reality all the weight fell on the shoulders of two or three. As mentioned by Tesla and others, if you're one of the ones running things, you'll be spending a lot of time doing club-related work. On top of this, it is easy to become a dictator in a small club simply be virtue of being the one that does things. Members don't make decisions becuase there is a president or secretary to do that for them.
- Who will run Heart of Melbourne?
- What kind of input will members and fans be able to have?
- How many people will be along for the ride but unwilling to get their hands dirty?

Purpose and goals

As people have already mentioned, the club needs a solid purpose and plan for the future from the outset. My initial dream with MEFC was to have a club for EFC supporters in Melbourne with the potential of expanding. But a number of factors made that impossible - size of the city and location of EFC supporters, availability of resources (cash, grounds, time), the skill level of those becoming involved (the best players often already play in established clubs), etc. In the end it was closer to a group of mates.
- Will Heart of Melbourne aim to be a professional club (silverware)? Or an amateur one (kick-about)? 
- What are its immediate and long-term goals?
- What will its relationship with MCFC fans be?
- Who will the players be and where will they come from?

Planning

As mentioned by Tesla above, planning and good research are crucial to establishing a club. I spent many, many hours researching leagues, insurance, fees, grounds, etc. I devised a plan for establishing the club and running it. In retrospect, it was all done in a huge rush to meet season start deadlines. A potential Heart of Melbourne club should be planning well ahead, setting 2017 or 2018 as their start date for playing and leaving a good year or so beforehand to get admin up and running, as well as to engender support and interest.
- Could a person or persons with prior experience of running a club be found to guide establishment?

League selection

League selection is tied to the above point as well as Location. The big options are:

- FFV - expensive, 'professional', more demanding of its member clubs, potential for the highest standard of football, organised geographically in north/east/west/central zones (last time I checked), juniors/womens/mens, club must be incorporated
- VCFA (Churches) - cheaper than FFV, no geographic organisation, strong-preference for clubs with church ties, good promotion/relegation system, 7-8 leagues ranging in quality, juniors/womens/mens, club provides insurance, club must be incorporated
- Vicsoccer - by far the cheapest option, relatively easy to break into (the secretary bent over backwards to get my own club involved), east/west league divisions, a reasonable standard of play, few leagues/cups, mens only league at this stage (though looking to expand in future), league insurance, club need not be incorporated

The league chosen defines quality of play/costs/who will play and where

Location and ground selection - the biggest challenge

My own club ended up playing in Clayton due to two factors - a ground was made available, and it was central for the members interested at the time. Actually getting access to the ground was an absolute fluke. 

Established clubs have a chokehold on the ground space that there is and councils are not interested in giving more space to a group of 20 blokes for a Saturday arvo kick about. They want clubs that can establish themselves and grow - that means evidence of financial viability, and planning for development of womens and junior teams. Additionally, grounds are pricey. Councils require insurance on the part of the club.
- Where will Heart of Melbourne play? Its location will give access to some but limit it for others
- How will it attract members?
- Will it be a club that council's want?

Costs

It has cost at least $7k for my club to get up and running and play this year with Vicsoccer (rego fees, kits, ground fees, insurance, equipment, etc.). Playing in FFV, as mentioned by Jovan, is a heavy investment. If you can find funding or sponsorship some of this can be offset, but getting those resources together is a massive effort.
- What will the costs be?
- Where will money come from?
- How will it be managed effectively?
- Could CFG/MCFC be involved in some way?

Players, staff, members

Again, where will  you be getting the players and what kind of players will they be? My own club had about 18 players over the course of the year: four with previous playing experience, six-seven with minimal (futsal or juniors), and a handful who were 'naturals'. One player volunteered as coach but had to bail halfway through, so responsibility fell to me. Training started out with good attendances, but dropped off - I wasn't a proper coach, some players couldn't be arsed training in general, and then there were those who wanted to train but couldn't because there wasn't enough people turning up. There was a wide mix of skillsets and playing in Vicsoccer's lowest league, we had two wins out of eighteen. Morale becomes an issue.
- Who will the players be?
- Where will they come from?
- Will it be a 'boys' club'?

 

[strider]

Played futsal on a national level -- state league 2 and below outdoor.

I am the best winger/left back you can get (srs)

Edited November 3, 2015 by strider

[Jovan]

Great post Blue Evertonian! Perfect example of how difficult it is. It's not impossible but you absolutely need a good number of people all wanting the same thing. 

Creating a thirds side at an existing (obviously willing club) IMO is probably more prudent and if you survive a few seasons then look at going solo.

Played futsal on a national level -- state league 2 and below outdoor.

I am the best winger/left back you can get (srs)

I always assumed you'd be a right winger.

[AyeCee]

Pardon my interjecting here - I'm not going to make any comments on this nor remain in this thread conversation any longer than this post, because one of my (unstated) rules with joining this forum as well as the NYCFC one was that I would always stay out of discussions on fan culture - you guys as the local should have the right to shape that without outside influence. However, I'm just trying to wrap my head around this, so I need to ask this question:

Is the point of this proposed club primarily to act as a protest against CFG ownership, or is it just to provide an alternative source of fan expression? That is to say, if you founded this club and it got established, would people look on this club as their primary team while Melbourne City becomes their source of professional football, or would Melbourne City remain "your club" while this just became a way of having fun in the company of footballing friends?

To put it in terms closer to what I am used to, there is a big difference between, as you cited, an FC United of Manchester, which exists to derive identity from the fact that it opposes the ownership of Manchester United, or a Maine Road FC, which exists to derive identity from that it is just meant to be a fan-run mini-City played in the lower leagues where supporters can be closer to the action.

I'm obviously not speaking for anyone else other than myself here, but I believe it would be more so simply a rebirth of Heart, rather than bitter rebellion against the takeover.  I imagine it would have no relevance at all to City and CFG, other than the shared supporter base.

[Jimmy]

It really does all depend on how it's done, but if a new club was aiming to get as high as they can in the state leagues they'd probably be my primary club of support.

[strider]

I always assumed you'd be a right winger.

Left, actually (srs my position)

[blue_evertonian]

I'd just like to chime in again, because I didn't really  mention any of the positive aspects of my own club-building experience or those of a potential Heart of Melbourne.

- It's a lot of work, but playing for or watching a club you've been involved building is a great personal experience. It's pretty cool to play for *your* club, as opposed to playing for a club simply because it's the local. There's a lot of passion involved.

- A supporter-based club is great in that it would give members a chance to meet other fans and share their passion for football/MCFC/Heart.

- Members decide the club's trajectory.

- Contributing to football growth in Australia. Of those people I played with at Melbourne Evertonians this year, only 3 had played outsoor the previous season. 1 had played outdoor previously. I got 12-13 guys playing who hadn't previously and all of them intend to play somewhere next year. What sort of impact could Heart of Melbourne have?

[strider]

can our main derby be bundoora united i like kicking their shins in

[Victards]

Would 110% be down if it was with FFV (with the club itself actually wanting success and to progress through the divisions rather than just a 'pub team') and a location which isnt too far. Good idea, which i hope will eventually kick off. 

[Hackett]

Has a destination for the end of season trip been confirmed?

[strider]

Would 110% be down if it was with FFV (with the club itself actually wanting success and to progress through the divisions rather than just a 'pub team') and a location which isnt too far. Good idea, which i hope will eventually kick off. 

pun intended

[cadete]

Has a destination for the end of season trip been confirmed?

One of those Houses on the Gold Coast you can rent on a manmade jetty for dirt cheap which eventually leads to ACA setting up a camera and doing a story where they interview all the nearby elderly permanent neighbors complaining about having to see constant Explicit Nudity every weekend.

Fines will be handed out for any team member who brings back a bird T-Bone does not rate above a four, however if the said bird is prepared to get naked for the obviously set up ACA Camera the fine will then be waived.

Edited November 4, 2015 by cadete

[Hackett]

One of those Houses on the Gold Coast you can rent on a manmade jetty for dirt cheap which eventually leads to ACA setting up a camera and doing a story where they interview all the nearby elderly permanent neighbors complaining about having to see constant Explicit Nudity every weekend.

Fines will be handed out for any team member who brings back a bird T-Bone does not rate above a four, however if they are prepared to get naked for ACA Camera the fine will be waived.

[Shahanga]

Pardon my interjecting here - I'm not going to make any comments on this nor remain in this thread conversation any longer than this post, because one of my (unstated) rules with joining this forum as well as the NYCFC one was that I would always stay out of discussions on fan culture - you guys as the local should have the right to shape that without outside influence. However, I'm just trying to wrap my head around this, so I need to ask this question:

Is the point of this proposed club primarily to act as a protest against CFG ownership, or is it just to provide an alternative source of fan expression? That is to say, if you founded this club and it got established, would people look on this club as their primary team while Melbourne City becomes their source of professional football, or would Melbourne City remain "your club" while this just became a way of having fun in the company of footballing friends?

To put it in terms closer to what I am used to, there is a big difference between, as you cited, an FC United of Manchester, which exists to derive identity from the fact that it opposes the ownership of Manchester United, or a Maine Road FC, which exists to derive identity from that it is just meant to be a fan-run mini-City played in the lower leagues where supporters can be closer to the action.

Excellent post.  Was thinking the same thing but never got around to posting.

What i will add (and our blue toffee friend touched on this), is that many on here will like the concept but have stronger ties to an existing club, so won't get involved in any meaningful way.  Me I have strong ties to a club 2ks from my house, if i go watch a State League game, guess who I'm going to see and am perfectly happy fighting for my spot in my over 45s team (though to be frank if I am a sought after signing, you are in deep deep trouble!)

TBH I'm a bit surprised that true Until I Die floated it but isn't suggesting he drives it, I guess I got confused by the original post.  

[True Until I die]

Its not so much that I wouldn't drive it, but that I would need to feel confident with a lot of support with other key leaders to go on from here.

[True Until I die]

Pardon my interjecting here - I'm not going to make any comments on this nor remain in this thread conversation any longer than this post, because one of my (unstated) rules with joining this forum as well as the NYCFC one was that I would always stay out of discussions on fan culture - you guys as the local should have the right to shape that without outside influence. However, I'm just trying to wrap my head around this, so I need to ask this question:

Is the point of this proposed club primarily to act as a protest against CFG ownership, or is it just to provide an alternative source of fan expression? That is to say, if you founded this club and it got established, would people look on this club as their primary team while Melbourne City becomes their source of professional football, or would Melbourne City remain "your club" while this just became a way of having fun in the company of footballing friends?

To put it in terms closer to what I am used to, there is a big difference between, as you cited, an FC United of Manchester, which exists to derive identity from the fact that it opposes the ownership of Manchester United, or a Maine Road FC, which exists to derive identity from that it is just meant to be a fan-run mini-City played in the lower leagues where supporters can be closer to the action.

Hey, good questions.

 

I must say I wonder what the likelihood of a massive project getting of the ground is, but here were my thoughts when making the post. As there have been some good questions raised and some valid points too.  Again not that this would ever be the only way, this is merely my thoughts on the notion and what I had envisioned.

League To play in:

The reason I said something like FFV metro is because that is the earliest you could get into the system. I think a club like Heart of Melbourne would need to strive to get as high up the footballing system as possible, to ultimately the NPL or even bigger. Of course this just makes the task even more difficult but as Jimmy has said- it needs to look professional.

Fan Expression vs CFG

Put it this way, the club I had thought of is one that plays in red and white, has references to the heart days and has no affiliation to city/cfg/sky blue.   I think that's why there is the support for such a project ultimately as the heart really meant something to quite a few people.(and maybe city not so much).

Mates Catchup vs The real deal

It has to be the latter if it is done. Ultimately the team would need to be respected enough to attract players and be successful, so people would need to buy into the idea that they are running the club, rather than playing in it.

Ultimately such a tough thing to do, and if the passion, the risk, the will just isn't there, then life goes on (heart remains a blissful memory, never to be returned)

Edited November 4, 2015 by True Until I die

[Falastur]

Thanks for your answers.  

Fan Expression vs CFG

Put it this way, the club I had thought of is one that plays in red and white, has references to the heart days and has no affiliation to city/cfg/sky blue.   I think that's why there is the support for such a project ultimately as the heart really meant something to quite a few people.(and maybe city not so much).

I get what you're saying and I entirely expected that this club would play in red and white and not be tied to CFG. My point, though, was to ask "do you intend for this club to be spoken about as a symbol of fan disenfranchisement with CFG, or just as a friendly hark back to the old days?" If people join up with the movement and attend games or even play, does it mark them as an opponent of the regime or just a guy who likes red and white?

Basically, I'm a fan of non-league football over here in England and of local clubs, and I love watching a project start from scratch and grow into something bigger. The kind of stuff fascinates me, perhaps largely because it's very rare over here in England. However, I can't quite work out to what level the disassociation with CFG - which I entirely understand and have no problem with you expressing - is the motivating factor behind this idea, and for obvious reasons if the club identity were to start to head towards being a "this is something we made ourselves, that CFG can't touch" then I think I'd wish you all the best but would not follow your progress like I otherwise might.

I hope that makes sense. 

I get the impression from some of the responses that others here may be trying to work out the same thing.

Anyway, as stated, I don't want to interfere and potentially shape this project because it's rightly yours, not mine, so I'll keep reading but I won't butt in again. 

Edited November 4, 2015 by Falastur