Murfy1

Thomas Sorensen

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Very informative interview with JVS on the City website.  Seems quite clear we have signed Sorenson in order to have 2 high standard keepers who will push each other for first spot and continually strive to raise the standard.  They didn't feel there was an Aussie of the requisite standard available.

Despite that, JVS said the starting spot is up for grabs and he expects T&T to compete for it.

So there you go - that's the logic.

 

Edited by Shahanga
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Actually about that interview I thought the interviewer asked a few delicate questions rather than the stock standard soft ones you normally get. For a club interview it was not bad. Hopefully we get more

 

especially after a loss.

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Very informative interview with JVS on the City website.  Seems quite clear we have signed Sorenson in order to have 2 high standard keepers who will push each other for first spot and continually strive to raise the standard.  They didn't feel there was an Aussie of the requisite standard available.

Despite that, JVS said the starting spot is up for grabs and he expects T&T to compete for it.

So there you go - that's the logic.

 

I don't mind it either. Isn't that pretty similar to what NHL teams do with their goalies, split the games something like 60/40 (so, extrapolated for an A-League season, it would be something like a 16/11 game split)? I think it's a good idea.

I'm also quite dubious about this signing, but really we should look to the bright side, JVS has well and truly dug his own grave this time.

Because it's inevitable that there is going to be some deficiency in our squad, whether through injury or just JVS ruining someone's career again, and then it's just an easy tap in "we wasted a visa spot on a goalkeeper when we don't have anyone good to play at Position X".

And that would be a fair statement to make.

Also this should be the end of any questions about the playing squad. If JVS was happy to use a visa spot on a goalkeeper we don't need, then clearly the rest of the squad is perfect according to him. So I expect us to win all 3 titles this season, if not then it's time for JVS to find a new job.

So either:

1. We're gonna win the league.

2. JVS is gonna get fired.

3. JVS won't be fired but at least I won't have to listen to people defending him any more.

A win either way. Therefore, 10/10 signing.

What if we didn't sign Sorensen and Velaphi got injured? Or what if Tando was the deficiency, going through a second year slump with no adequate backup? Redmayne looked pretty good initially when he took over from Bolton too.

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Yeah but NHL teams play 82 games a season with about 3 games a week. 

True. I don't think the goalies are exactly clocking up marathons during the games though.

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I don't mind it either. Isn't that pretty similar to what NHL teams do with their goalies, split the games something like 60/40 (so, extrapolated for an A-League season, it would be something like a 16/11 game split)? I think it's a good idea.

What if we didn't sign Sorensen and Velaphi got injured? Or what if Tando was the deficiency, going through a second year slump with no adequate backup? Redmayne looked pretty good initially when he took over from Bolton too.

Well we would have signed another keeper anyway, and playing 'what ifs' is a game that works both ways so there's really no knowing what could have happen, we could have signed the next Matt Ryan.

Actually it would be a pretty good use of the 'mature age rookie' salary cap exemption, if you have no other use for it then it's a nice way to free up a little salary cap by using it on a backup keeper out of the NPL (since keepers peak at a later age it could still be quite a young keeper, backup keepers generally dont see much game time and like I've said it's the least important position so it's not a huge loss if they end up being a below average player, etc.)

FWIW, I highly doubt Velaphi will have a slump, and if JVS is legitimately leaving the number 1 spot open to whoever deserves it more, than I'd back Velaphi. He is the most determined player in the squad and will most likely thrive under the competition, but I'm not at all convinced by JVS' claims TBH, he took way to long to drop Redmayne.

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True. I don't think the goalies are exactly clocking up marathons during the games though.

Yeah, they have it so easy. :droy:

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Yeah, they have it so easy. :droy:

I think he meant it in terms of physical activity.  Goalkeepers can play in to their mid 40's, outfield players cannot.  The demands on the body are different.

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Its a young and evolving league with its unique challenges.  There's no template out there the FFA can follow to the letter.  There will be other unforeseen things that will come up until the league is sustainable, which IMO it currently isn't.

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JvS: No.1 spot not guaranteed to 'rusty' Sorensen

 

Ben Somerford

4 October 2015

 

Melbourne City coach John van ‘t Schip says he cannot guarantee international recruit Thomas Sorensen will be their No.1 goalkeeper for Round One.

City travel to face Sydney FC at Allianz Stadium on Saturday night, with 39-year-old Sorensen battling Tando Velaphi to be van ‘t Schip’s preferred choice.

Velaphi has been solid in pre-season for City, including a clean sheet and some great saves in last week’s FFA Cup win over Heidelberg United.

Meanwhile, the veteran shot-stopper only landed in Melbourne last month and has been playing catch-up.

“Thomas is (up for it) and Tando is up for it as well,” van ‘t Schip told FourFourTwo. “It’s a big competition and that’s what we want.

“We want competition for every position and that players have to challenge each other and make it difficult for the coaching staff to make a decision on who’s going to play.

“That’s the same with the goalkeepers. Tando had a great game against Heidelberg. He’s having a good pre-season.

“Thomas, we all know, is very experienced, he’s got more than 100 internationals for his country Denmark.

“In the dressing room he’s very impressive and a good leader. We’re happy that we have him in. 

“Thomas along with a lot of the other players that came to our club give us that different kind of energy and a more winning mentality.”

The former Sunderland and Aston Villa custodian, who has penned a two-year deal at City, has made only a dozen appearances in the past three seasons.

He was expected to retire at the conclusion of last term after his release from Stoke City and actually spent the off-season cycling across the United States for charity.

Van‘t Schip conceded Sorensen was “rusty” initially upon his arrival but is on the right track after a few weeks' training. 

“He’s needed a bit of time to get back into his goalkeeper training, so he was a bit rusty in the beginning,” the Dutchman said.

“Looking at him now, he’s coped very well with the training load, with the sessions.

“He knows the way we want to play, he knows the players. He understands the characters in the side. He’s more than good physically and also mentally now.

“Now it’s up to him to make the next step and battle with Tando for the number one position.”

 

http://www.fourfourtwo.com/au/news/jvs-no1-spot-not-guaranteed-rusty-sorensen#:Wd-y8czhAsEoPA

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Thomas Sorensen's big-time experience can improve City's consistency

October 9, 2015

Michael Lynch

 

When John van 't Schip carried out a performance review at the end of Melbourne City's 2014-15 campaign he knew an upgrade of the playing stock was necessary if they were going to improve on a 3-0 loss to eventual champions Melbourne Victory in the A-League semi-finals.

But he also knew they needed to change the mindset of the dressing room. All too often City's heads would drop when things weren't going right.

Van 't Schip's solution was in part to season the squad with some hugely experienced overseas veterans, players who could provide leadership and knowledge as much off the pitch as on it.

Some eyebrows were raised when the club used one of its visa spots on a 39-year-old goalkeeper who had hardly played in the English Premier League the previous season. But van 't Schip and his team are banking that the experience that Thomas Sorensen, the former Sunderland, Aston Villa and Stoke custodian, will bring to the squad will not only provide great competition for Tando Velaphi but also improve the mentality of the outfield players.

There is not much the Dane has not seen in his 17 years in the English top flight nor in over 100 appearances (including two World Cups) for his national team. And those kind of invaluable insights — as well as sharp goalkeeping reflexes — are what van 't Schip is expecting Sorensen to bring to the group.

The 195-centimetre goalkeeper was not sure during the week whether he would start Saturday's game against Sydney given Velaphi's good form against Heidelberg in the FFA Cup, but like any keeper, no matter how old they are, he is itching to get the gloves on and make his debut.

"I hope I will be playing but there are no guarantees in football," he said. "I have been long enough in the game to know that. We have had a good pre-season. I came in a bit later than most of the others, but the training has been good so let's see."

Sorensen spent much of the past few years at Stoke City as a back-up to Asmir Begovic (now moved to Chelsea) so hasn't played an awful lot recently. When he made it clear he was looking for a fresh challenge, Melbourne City's English parent company, Manchester City, got in touch and floated the idea of coming to Australia.

"I had a meeting, they explained what they were doing, where they wanted to go and that was the idea I bought into. I like the challenge. It's a young club with some serious backers that want to achieve things and I have always been very ambitious in what I do. They thought I could help with my experience and shape the team and the club among other things."

Sorensen first came to England when he joined Sunderland in 1998. He played for the Black Cats for five years, Aston Villa for five years and had seven years at the Brittania Stadium with the Potters.

"I have been fortunate to play for that long. I think there is no better place to play than the Premier League as a young player.

"I was in Denmark during my youth, but I always looked at England. I played in the under-21 squad and got the chance to go to Sunderland. They had just missed out on promotion in that infamous Charlton play-off." (A match Charlton won 7-6 on penalties after a 4-4 draw following extra time).

"They didn't have a keeper so they really took a punt on me. I was young, nobody knew about me in England, they got me for hardly anything.

"We got promoted the first year, we had a good season under Peter Reid and it built from there. It was a fantastic place to start, really loyal fans and a great atmosphere. We had a lot of success in the first three years, then I moved to Villa after that. I succeeded Peter Enckelman, was there for five years and then on to Stoke. It's been a great time."

Not many expected Stoke to stay up when they got promotion, which just added to the enjoyment as the team consolidated under Tony Pulis.The fact they were derided for a long-ball game and a physical approach didn't bother the players, says Sorensen.

"It was a challenge for me too as it was going from a big club like Villa, to go to Stoke, which was a club that was hanging on, trying to get a foothold in the Premier League. We played in a certain style and a lot of people didn't like it, but there was a great sense of us sticking together and of us against the rest. Everyone had an opinion of the long throws and everything else that came with it. It was a great team spirit and we built from there.

"We made the 2011 cup final. That was a career highlight getting there, but losing was not the greatest feeling. Sometimes you need a little bit of luck and we didn't have it on the day." (Stoke went down 1-0 to Manchester City through Yaya Toure's late goal).

Sorensen has signed a two-year deal. His knowledge of the A-League is limited, but a former Sunderland teammate, the ex-Newcastle Jets striker and television pundit Michael Bridges, helped fill in the blanks and made the case for such a big move. Sorensen has come with his wife and two children and is committed to making it work.

"I also spoke to Jesper Olsen (former Danish international) who lives here.  Everyone has talked well of it and how well the league is progressing. In Europe the MLS has more spotlight on it than the Australian league, but now they have started showing the games on TV and I saw a couple last year."

 

http://www.smh.com.au/sport/soccer/aleague-thomas-sorensens-bigtime-experience-can-improve-citys-consistency-20151009-gk53ck

 

I reckon this article is on the money. The club staff seem to be hoping that Sorensen, and probably Hughes too, not only play well but also help usher in a cultural change and winning mentality at Melbourne City. I hope they're right and Sorensen and Hughes can have such an influence. All that experience must surely be worth something.

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I agree Murf but the disappointing thing for me is that it seems we didn't get that from the likes of Duff & Weilart. In regards to Duff whilst I was impressed by his humility, less of that and more leadership may have been helpful, not withstanding his "clubman " award.

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I agree Murf but the disappointing thing for me is that it seems we didn't get that from the likes of Duff & Weilart. In regards to Duff whilst I was impressed by his humility, less of that and more leadership may have been helpful, not withstanding his "clubman " award.

I agree this club has signed a lot of older players--Wielaert, Grella, Murdocca, Mifsud, Macallister, etc.--that failed to provide genuine leadership and produce a winning culture. It was also said that players like Gerhardt, Tadic and Steven Gray were "winners" and would produce a winning culture, and all failed to do so.

 

I reckon the problem was that the players weren't good enough on the pitch, as Wielaert, Murdocca and Mifsud and others weren't (in the final chapter of their careers). So it doesn't matter how much experience and how much of an "example" players try to be off the pitch if they can't perform and be an example on the pitch.

 

 

It's hard to know how much leadership players show in the dressing room and at training, because that's all out of sight. But in Duff's case he reputedly did show some leadership, although most often by setting an example:

* JVS on Duff early last season: 

"We have players in our team now who are experienced. We all know that David is not going to stay for a long period but the amount of experience and example Damien and David give to the team, especially the young players, is priceless, unbelievable.

"They are looking and learning, they see what it means to be a real professional.

"Not only are Damien and David good players but they care of their body, eating the right food.

"They are among the first at training and among the last to leave.

"Those boys are a perfect example not only for our boys but for a lot of clubs." (http://theworldgame.sbs.com.au/article/2014/10/12/villa-duff-lead-example-melbourne-city)

 

* JVS on Duff after his season-ending injury:

"You know how he is, he's eager. He was every day on the pitch, giving the example, running up front, doing his work. We're going to lose someone on the pitch but also in the dressing room. (http://www.goal.com/en-au/news/4021/a-league/2015/02/20/9100422/van-t-schip-duffs-future-undecided)

 

* Duff on his own influence:

"Throughout my career I've probably been one of the more quiet players in the dressing room," he said.

"With age and experience you have to speak up a bit more.

"I think it needs to be done because we're a quiet dressing room at times." (http://www.abc.net.au/news/2015-02-07/duff-relishing-melbourne-city-stay/6077320)

 

 

My sense was that Duff provided some genuine leadership behind the scenes, but after his injury his influence probably became less significant. Also, after the disastrous 2012-13, 2013-14 seasons, where this club developed a really bad culture, it was always going to take more than a few individuals (as well as a clearing out of the deadwood) to usher in a winning culture. Hopefully now with so many individuals around the club who are experienced or who have won things, like Kisnorbo, Mooy, Franjic, Paartalu, Koren, Fornaroli, Hughes and Sorensen, the club and the team can finally have a winning attitude that'll keep the good times going and minimize the bad times.

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Its a trickle down effect. If inspiration and leadership doesn't come from the top, then midway up the wrungs can only do so much

 

*every season we seem to have a new signing who will "provide the leadership the club is desperately missing" rather than asking why we need to bring players in to provide it

Edited by KSK_47

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Tandos still better.

Better or not - he is lacking the 'stage presence', or an aura if you like that makes strikers double guess how they'll shoot. 

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Can't we just be satisified, for once, that we have the two best 'keepers in the league?

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Can't we just be satisified, for once, that we have the two best 'keepers in the league?

no cos we already had the best keeper in the milky way 

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So whether or not Tando is better, we can all agree that Sorensen saved us a point on the weekend.

Let's keep a tally of how many point he 'saves' us:
- Round 1 - One point
- Round 2 - Two points (Assuming we win after TS saves Berisha's penalty which would've drawn the game in the 88th min) :up: 

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So whether or not Tando is better, we can all agree that Sorensen saved us a point on the weekend.

Let's keep a tally of how many point he 'saves' us:
- Round 1 - One point
- Round 2 - Two points (Assuming we win after TS saves Berisha's penalty which would've drawn the game in the 88th min) :up: 

r u going for a green line my son? 

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r u going for a green line my son? 

Nah, if I was 'greening' (when one goes for a green line) I'd make it vague like some other predictors on here to have more chance of getting one :P

Having said that - if Sorensen saves a penalty on the weekend I wouldn't mind celebrating with a green line or white, whatever! ;) 

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For the "waste of a visa spot" I have just noticed that the FFA website lists him as the leagues top goalkeeper with 14 saves

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That was prior to last night, he will add at least 6 on to that

Edited by bt50

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Tbh o didn't think he was that great. 1 good save, cut out a few low crosses, gathered a few shots that were little more than back passes but on the flip side coughed yet another one up and poor distribution.

im shocked some thought he was MoM. 

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I think we all expect flawless performances. He actually makes me nervous he can be fumbly and his distribution by foot is surprisingly poor. His positioning is world class and that save he made from (Malik I think ) was worth a goal.  

At the end of the day after a few games he has not been what I expected but he is probably in the top 3 keepers in the League. 

If he improves with games he will be crucial in the big games. 

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Last night perfectly summed up the difference between an average keeper (Hall) and a good one.

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Last night perfectly summed up the difference between an average keeper (Hall) and a good one.

True but Hall is 21 and has some way to go. Admittedly by now his confidence must be getting low but I am not going to sheet all the blame to him. AU defence has been woeful.

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Last night perfectly summed up the difference between an average keeper (Hall) and a good one.

That save he made shows his quality and class. Not only from getting a hand to the ball to make the save, but also in how he angles his hand up to ensure the ball is going out of play instead of potentially rebounding back into play.

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this bloke concedes against everyone so far

velaphi in 

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He's a good shot stopper but can't catch the ball to save himself

I think that he isn't doing a bad job, it just isn't a level higher than Tando and below what we were expecting. Remember he hasn't played much for a year, hopefully his catching ability will improve

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I think that he isn't doing a bad job, it just isn't a level higher than Tando and below what we were expecting. Remember he hasn't played much for a year, hopefully his catching ability will improve

This is pretty much on the money.  

I do think if he's going to hold off Tando he'll need to improve, but given his pedigree that improvement would seem likely.

 As to comparing him to Hall (which others did), that's a bit hard on Hall, the kid is a No 2 with a bit of talent but no experience, with a calamitous back 4 in front of him that would test most 'keepers. To be frank, if Sorensen didn't look better, he should retire.

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IMO he's doing what he was brought in to do. Lift the combined standard of our goalkeeping stocks and improve the team spirit within the squad. I have little doubt that Tando will be our No. 1 in due course if he stays with us after his current contract, and that Tommy will move into a non-playing role within CFG.

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He made one fumble yesterday, but overall was solid and made two very good saves. The first one from Dijite very early on when he came out to block. That was more important than the great save from the Malik header, because we could have been one down. I also believe his communication is much better than Tando's. 

I would not be disappointed to see Tando play, but Sorenson is a solid keeper.

 

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