The End Of The NYL?

[Young Polak]

http://theworldgame.sbs.com.au/article/2015/03/15/national-youth-league-danger-axe-clubs-prepare-pull-out


Would it be better to scrap the NYL and just have their youth + handful of older guys playing and developing their skills in the NPL? Playing both NYL and NPL which would equate to playing a full year of football non-stop would be pretty brutal for some of the young guys.

[Heart_fan]

If the NPL season can be moved to Jan-Aug, what it could do is allow for a break in Sept-Oct, with a pre-season cup comp between Nov-Dec if it is needed.

 

The club could have 2 groups of 5 teams, with combined rounds played in one city/town to save costs. It would still give national exposure to youth players, and provide a great lead up to the NPL.

 

It sounds like clubs are struggling to see the value in the NYL so this could be a compromise. 

Edited March 16, 2015 by Heart_fan

[cadete]

TBH this old is news,

 

They wanted to role this out a few years ago as soon as they rolled out the original far less Ethnic NPL Plan...

 

But of course Court Action saw what the original plan being replaced by basically the VPL with a collection of Regional Sides and a hell of lot more coaches involved in the game at all levels.

Edited March 16, 2015 by cadete

[jw1739]

Not sure what this means. IMO the A-League clubs need to be careful. If they end up just being A-League clubs/teams, with no reserve/junior involvement with each other whatsoever, they'll end up being like the Melbourne RL and RU clubs - just a bunch of imported players who happen to play some matches in Melbourne but - for me at least - have absolutely no sense of belonging or identity whatsoever.

 

There are enough complaints about the "plasticity" of the A-League franchises already.

 

For me the answer is not to cut the NYL, but to find club owners who have the resources to actually fund and run their clubs so that the game grows. Sage has been whining about lack of funds for years; maybe it's time for him to step aside. 

[silva10]

Has the youth standard risen among these teams with the implementation of the NYL?

If not, then maybe they should be looking at a better way to bring through the youth players.

[cadete]

Personally I think the NPL is the way to go for our Youth...

 

For example we would not have had the #StartWalker crap if Zac Walker had to play on 28 year old English Division Two State League Center Halves instead of kids.

 

Exposure to more games and playing against older players is the best way for us to work out who can progress to being Professional Footballers and those who are just good against their own age group. (See Jack Watts for AFL fans).

Edited March 16, 2015 by cadete

[Jovan]

Personally I think the NPL is the way to go for our Youth...

 

For example we would not have had the #StartWalker crap if Zac Walker had to play on 28 year old English Division Two State League Center Halves instead of kids.

 

Exposure to more games and playing against older players is the best way for us to work out who can progress to being Professional Footballers and those who are just good against their own age group. (See Jack Watts for AFL fans).

So do you see the NYL team becoming entirely youth players 17/18/19 and the NPL team becoming more of a defacto reserves team. It makes more sense to me, the only real issue is the time of year they run.

 

Very interested to see how it will develop over the next 18months or so.

[cadete]

 

Personally I think the NPL is the way to go for our Youth...

 

For example we would not have had the #StartWalker crap if Zac Walker had to play on 28 year old English Division Two State League Center Halves instead of kids.

 

Exposure to more games and playing against older players is the best way for us to work out who can progress to being Professional Footballers and those who are just good against their own age group. (See Jack Watts for AFL fans).

So do you see the NYL team becoming entirely youth players 17/18/19 and the NPL team becoming more of a defacto reserves team. It makes more sense to me, the only real issue is the time of year they run.

 

Very interested to see how it will develop over the next 18months or so.

 

Obviously a few seniors should be allowed to have a run with some cap in place... as it be a good way for the club to explore trialists and the like.

[marn11]

The best way forward for youth development tbh. As Cadete alluded to, the best way for kids to progress is to play senior football, the NYL was a pretty ordinary standard.

[pattyd89]

NYL is a waste of time now that we are integrating into NPL. There isn't a need to fly kids around Australia to play other kids, when you can stay in your own state. NPL is the way forward as it will allow you to then create NPL junior teams for each age right back to the start of NPL U12.

[cadete]

The best way forward for youth development tbh. As Cadete alluded to, the best way for kids to progress is to play senior football, the NYL was a pretty ordinary standard.

Put this way if I was a 18 year old Center Half wanting to become an A-League player I would honestly consider playing NPL even NPL1 over NYL.

 

As its obviously going to better for my development to be learning my defensive craft against Strike forces consisting of men than a lot of fairly lazy 18 year olds relying on their natural talent to progress through the system.

Edited March 17, 2015 by cadete

[Tbitm]

Yes kids play against tougher competition in the NPL, but it is important having the kids playing nearly year round like they do in europe and be match fit for when players get injured in the A-League

[Jovan]

Actually I don't think its an either or discussion. Both can work. if things remain as previously with NYL and we are adding the NPL team it can only benefit the A league teams. They have a greater pool of players they can directly control (opposed to loaning out and watching for improvement) and now they have year round game time. The only thing I am not sure about is can players move within the 3 levels, or do their contracts determine which team they can play in.

[jw1739]

One thing that is confusing me...ATM the NYL runs parallel to the A-League and can be used as a vehicle to give members of the senior squad a run (e.g. goalkeepers, or players returning from an injury lay-off). As the NPL is presently structured as a winter competition it cannot be used the same way. So is it intended to move the NPL to a summer competition, and if not, how will we manage the senior squad players who need a run but are not ready to return to the senior team?

[NewConvert]

One thing that is confusing me...ATM the NYL runs parallel to the A-League and can be used as a vehicle to give members of the senior squad a run (e.g. goalkeepers, or players returning from an injury lay-off). As the NPL is presently structured as a winter competition it cannot be used the same way. So is it intended to move the NPL to a summer competition, and if not, how will we manage the senior squad players who need a run but are not ready to return to the senior team?

 

I was also thinking the same thing. Also how successful has the NYL in being able to provide a foundation for young players to progress to senior contracts compared to players coming out the premier leagues? Its easy for Sage to say that it should be shut down but he does not provide a ready answer to the multitude of questions that its demise could bring.

[Jovan]

The way I'd like to see it is that NYL continues as it has done, (although agree its level of quality is low) but the NPL is additional so that during the off season winter it will be available to trial players, play players coming back from injury or really look at possible youth players getting senior contracts. What I would like to know is how with the movement of players between the 3 teams will be and how easy or difficult will that be?

[NewConvert]

BTW what is wrong with youth players having a 48 week season? The NYL is quite short and runs in summer followed by the NPL?

[cadete]

I think the original assumption was for the NPL seasons to be much longer or moved to coincide a lot more with the timing of the A-League. 

[Tesla]

Since the A-league started I've been advocating for there to be a 'B team' playing in the state leagues. It'd been a long process and this is really the last step in the process. The evidence is clear, look at Spain, look at Germany, look at the Netherlands. Even Italy, who don't have B teams but they loan out a lot more of their youth to the lower divisions than other countries. Then look at England. Having youth playing against grown men is the best way forward.

It makes sense to move the NPL in line with the A-league and hopefully that can occur, which would only leave season length as an issue. Can the NPL clubs afford a longer season? I'm not sure.

[cadete]

Since the A-league started I've been advocating for there to be a 'B team' playing in the state leagues. It'd been a long process and this is really the last step in the process. The evidence is clear, look at Spain, look at Germany, look at the Netherlands. Even Italy, who don't have B teams but they loan out a lot more of their youth to the lower divisions than other countries. Then look at England. Having youth playing against grown men is the best way forward.

It makes sense to move the NPL in line with the A-league and hopefully that can occur, which would only leave season length as an issue. Can the NPL clubs afford a longer season? I'm not sure.

I think there is still a lot to be done in regards to the Second Tier of Australian Soccer and even more so in Junior Soccer.

[Tesla]

I meant in the process of getting a B team in the second tier, it's the last step. I'd dare say we needed the NYL first, we needed to restructure the state leagues, etc. Now that that's done, and the NPL really has been identified as a key phase in the player development pathway (even before the A-league teams were introduced), there does need to be a big focus on furthering the NPL. I think the regional teams was the right idea TBH, unfortunately it's not proving easy to implement.

Edited March 18, 2015 by Tesla

[MaliMate]

I meant in the process of getting a B team in the second tier, it's the last step. I'd dare say we needed the NYL first, we needed to restructure the state leagues, etc. Now that that's done, and the NPL really has been identified as a key phase in the player development pathway (even before the A-league teams were introduced), there does need to be a big focus on furthering the NPL. I think the regional teams was the right idea TBH, unfortunately it's not proving easy to implement.

For the billionth time this century (y)

[belaguttman]

Not sure what this means. IMO the A-League clubs need to be careful. If they end up just being A-League clubs/teams, with no reserve/junior involvement with each other whatsoever, they'll end up being like the Melbourne RL and RU clubs - just a bunch of imported players who happen to play some matches in Melbourne but - for me at least - have absolutely no sense of belonging or identity whatsoever.

 

There are enough complaints about the "plasticity" of the A-League franchises already.

 

For me the answer is not to cut the NYL, but to find club owners who have the resources to actually fund and run their clubs so that the game grows. Sage has been whining about lack of funds for years; maybe it's time for him to step aside. 

The other issue for the NPL clubs is around unsealing rights. Their concern is that the NYL teams will drain their best players and that they have a role in identifying and developing players but then lose young players to NYL state league teams with no ongoing financial return if those players become successful. This is why they are wary of HAL franchise involvement in state leagues.

[sheepdog]

Not sure what this means. IMO the A-League clubs need to be careful. If they end up just being A-League clubs/teams, with no reserve/junior involvement with each other whatsoever, they'll end up being like the Melbourne RL and RU clubs - just a bunch of imported players who happen to play some matches in Melbourne but - for me at least - have absolutely no sense of belonging or identity whatsoever.

There are enough complaints about the "plasticity" of the A-League franchises already.

For me the answer is not to cut the NYL, but to find club owners who have the resources to actually fund and run their clubs so that the game grows. Sage has been whining about lack of funds for years; maybe it's time for him to step aside.

The other issue for the NPL clubs is around unsealing rights. Their concern is that the NYL teams will drain their best players and that they have a role in identifying and developing players but then lose young players to NYL state league teams with no ongoing financial return if those players become successful. This is why they are wary of HAL franchise involvement in state leagues.I know there is a FIFA ruling something along the lines of: any club that the player in question has registered for in any official league are entitled to compensation for training, playing, talent identification maybe, upon said player signing his first professional contract.

For example, Hellas received (I think) $3000 for Francesco Stella (yes the victory shitcunt)when he signed for some obscure Italian team. He played juniors there before playing seniors for bulleen in think it was. They received a little more due to the senior football and him being there more recently to his pro contract.

Therefore any NPL club would receive financial gain from the sale of a player.

You would think our club (with its so called connections) would be more attractive to the better NPL players.

Let's also not get too ahead of ourselves here, I can't see a proper star coming from the NPL anytime soon.

The only players in can think of are the trifiro brothers and rushed magazine from northcote.

Edited March 19, 2015 by sheepdog

[belaguttman]

 

 

Not sure what this means. IMO the A-League clubs need to be careful. If they end up just being A-League clubs/teams, with no reserve/junior involvement with each other whatsoever, they'll end up being like the Melbourne RL and RU clubs - just a bunch of imported players who happen to play some matches in Melbourne but - for me at least - have absolutely no sense of belonging or identity whatsoever.

 

There are enough complaints about the "plasticity" of the A-League franchises already.

 

For me the answer is not to cut the NYL, but to find club owners who have the resources to actually fund and run their clubs so that the game grows. Sage has been whining about lack of funds for years; maybe it's time for him to step aside.

The other issue for the NPL clubs is around unsealing rights. Their concern is that the NYL teams will drain their best players and that they have a role in identifying and developing players but then lose young players to NYL state league teams with no ongoing financial return if those players become successful. This is why they are wary of HAL franchise involvement in state leagues. I know there is a FIFA ruling something along the lines of: any club that the player in question has registered for in any official league are entitled to compensation for training, playing, talent identification maybe, upon said player signing his first professional contract.

For example, Hellas received (I think) $3000 for Francesco Stella (yes the victory shitcunt)when he signed for some obscure Italian team.

Therefore any NPL club would receive financial gain from the sale of a player.

 

Yes but the worry is that they'll move from junior teams straight to City NPL (or other HAL teams) instead of signing for their own senior team

[sheepdog]

Not sure what this means. IMO the A-League clubs need to be careful. If they end up just being A-League clubs/teams, with no reserve/junior involvement with each other whatsoever, they'll end up being like the Melbourne RL and RU clubs - just a bunch of imported players who happen to play some matches in Melbourne but - for me at least - have absolutely no sense of belonging or identity whatsoever.

 

There are enough complaints about the "plasticity" of the A-League franchises already.

 

For me the answer is not to cut the NYL, but to find club owners who have the resources to actually fund and run their clubs so that the game grows. Sage has been whining about lack of funds for years; maybe it's time for him to step aside.

The other issue for the NPL clubs is around unsealing rights. Their concern is that the NYL teams will drain their best players and that they have a role in identifying and developing players but then lose young players to NYL state league teams with no ongoing financial return if those players become successful. This is why they are wary of HAL franchise involvement in state leagues. I know there is a FIFA ruling something along the lines of: any club that the player in question has registered for in any official league are entitled to compensation for training, playing, talent identification maybe, upon said player signing his first professional contract.

For example, Hellas received (I think) $3000 for Francesco Stella (yes the victory shitcunt)when he signed for some obscure Italian team.

Therefore any NPL club would receive financial gain from the sale of a player.

Yes but the worry is that they'll move from junior teams straight to City NPL (or other HAL teams) instead of signing for their own senior team It's been happening for years in state football already. Money talks.

[Young Polak]

http://www.smh.com.au/sport/soccer/ffa-cuts-national-youth-league-back-to-eight-rounds-as-part-of-aleague-overhaul-20150923-gjt8pe.html

 

Football Federation Australia will unveil the biggest overhaul of youth development in more than a decade, effectively scrapping the existing format of the National Youth League to give clubs a streamlined and exclusive control of the development of their young talent. 

For the first time since the collapse of the National Soccer League in 2004, all top tier Australian football clubs will be able to tailor players for the senior team from the age of 12. A renewed competition format will make the National Youth League the shortest elite competition in Australia while including the youth teams of all A-League clubs into the state federations' National Premier League structures. 

The previous structure of an 18-round home and away draw between A-League youth teams has been scrapped in favour of an eight-round competition plus finals. The nine A-League teams and the FFA Centre of Excellence team will form two five-team pools which will include a condensed home and away series beginning on November 7 with a grand final to be played in late January.

 

Following the completion of the shortened National Youth League competition, every youth team will then compete in the 26-week National Premier League structures in their relevant state which begin in February or early March. 

"The Foxtel National Youth League has been adapted for the upcoming season in line with the elite player development pathway as we all work together to produce quality footballers for the A-League and the national teams," FFA national technical director Eric Abrams said. "From next season all nine Australian A-League clubs will have their youth teams playing in the relevant National Premier League competitions over the winter months against senior men's teams and then come together for an abbreviated National Youth League season."

The move has been made to allow a more streamlined approach to youth development in Australia where the best young players will remain with their A-League clubs' youth teams for an extended time and for more games. The National Youth League teams of each A-League club will take part in the senior divisions of the state premier league structures, allowing the best youth players to play against adults as well as older teenagers.

The changes will allow HAL clubs to have under-13s, 14s, 15s and 16s teams playing in the NPL junior structure. "It is an exciting step forward for football in Australia as our talented youth players will be able to take part in a coordinated year-long program in a consistent environment that will help develop better players," Abrams said. 

It is understood the pools of the National Youth League may be divided by geography to help significantly cut costs for many of the A-League clubs. Western Sydney Wanderers, Sydney FC, Central Coast Mariners, Newcastle Jets and the FFA CoE team (Canberra) are likely to be pitted together. Melbourne Victory, Melbourne City, Brisbane Roar, Adelaide and Perth Glory are set to be the other pool. 

 

 

 

[NuggetsMcGreggor]

Can we sign 30+ year olds for our u13s side?

[Tesla]

 

It is understood the pools of the National Youth League may be divided by geography to help significantly cut costs for many of the A-League clubs. Western Sydney Wanderers, Sydney FC, Central Coast Mariners, Newcastle Jets and the FFA CoE team (Canberra) are likely to be pitted together. Melbourne Victory, Melbourne City, Brisbane Roar, Adelaide and Perth Glory are set to be the other pool. 

Where do I begin...

Edited September 23, 2015 by Tesla

[Shahanga]

I see where you're coming from tesla, its only costs savings for the NSW clubs, however i don't mind it.

the main things are:

• the youth squads are playing against men (all we were achieving was producing 21 year olds who were, in football terms, just kids)
• we can now have a fair dinkum academy

This is a great opportunity for a well run club.

Edited September 23, 2015 by Shahanga

[pattyd89]

I would assume it also means it reduces the travel allowances that FFA have to pay to only really Adelaide, Brisbane and Perth. Both Melbourne clubs only have to play away 3 times of the 10 rounds. And better to play against men for the majority of the season than other kids.