The road to the WC Finals - now 2022

[Shahanga]

7 hours ago, Tesla said:

This is what we always wanted isn't it? Competitive qualifying games.

The minnows in Asia can't steal results like the ones in Europe yet, but we dont know how to break down defences that are hell bent on not letting us score either. We need to learn, and I dare say we will and we will get better.

But it's crucial we qualify for the WC, it would set us back too much if we dont. We are basically able to attract anyone with  dual eligibility to play for us now because we offer a great proposition. We offer a good chance to win an Asian Cup every few years, and go to every World Cup, while also offering international opportunities to players  who aren't guarenteed that if they chose a bigger nation. Thats why they all choose Australia right now, it makes too much sense for the players unless they are very likely to be a world class player and have dual eligibility for a much better footballing nation.

If we dont qualify all of a sudden we dont look that good compared to a mid-tear European nation. What works against those countries is how hard it is just to qualify for Euros and WC.

Or against a top nation, caps and almost-guarenteed WC vs waiting around for a chance that might not come, we win.

We need to keep up the almost-guarenteed prospect of playing in a WC, or our proposition weakens and we lose players.

You're always going to get the players who are either eligable for a significantly worse nation and have a chance with us, and the players who think they have no chance at a bigger nation, and we'll always lose the players with a good chance at a much better nation. But the players who are eligable for a similar-level nation or with weak chances at a bigger nation, them choosing us depends on us consistently qualifying for WCs.

Really?

Im not going to knock those guys back, but the guys I really want are the ones who want to play for Australia because it's their country.

You know like  Harry Kewell, Tim Cahill and Mark Viduka.

Not fussed about the likes of Apo Giannou and Max Vieri.

[Tesla]

23 minutes ago, Shahanga said:

Really?

Im not going to knock those guys back, but the guys I really want are the ones who want to play for Australia because it's their country.

You know like  Harry Kewell, Tim Cahill and Mark Viduka.

Not fussed about the likes of Apo Giannou and Max Vieri.

Ummm,  what? 

[ecguymer]

18 hours ago, Shahanga said:

Haven't watched it and based on the above might never, but do people think Ange made the same mistake as Arnold at the Asian cup? Picked the best players but not the best players in those conditions. 3 midfielders based in the U.K. Looks like trouble.

the channel 9 guys made mention of how many euro based players we ran last night and how they struggled with the climate...they did seem to think that the match was mismanaged with a general theme of "this is a game we should not have lost, even with the Thai's playing better than usual" throughout the post match discussion....

[Jimmy]

17 hours ago, Shahanga said:

Really?

Im not going to knock those guys back, but the guys I really want are the ones who want to play for Australia because it's their country.

You know like  Harry Kewell, Tim Cahill and Mark Viduka.

Not fussed about the likes of Apo Giannou and Max Vieri.

Did you just name three dual nationals who probably chose Australia for some of the reasons Tes listed?

[Shahanga]

6 hours ago, Jimmy said:

Did you just name three dual nationals who probably chose Australia for some of the reasons Tes listed?

No.  when those three committed to Australia we hadn't made a world cup for well over 20 years and faced a fearsome qualifying playoff.  All three knocked back European nations and took a chance that the incompetent Soccer Australia would finally get their shit together.   Tes is saying they will come because we qualify every 4 years.  

 i think its important to qualify, but not because of his reasons:

1.  its the world cup. 

2. its good for every aspect of the game here.

 

Edited November 17, 2016 by Shahanga
typo

[malloy]

9 hours ago, Shahanga said:

No.  when those three committed to Australia we hadn't made a world cup for well over 20 years and faced a fearsome qualifying playoff.  All three knocked back European nations and took a chance that the incompetent Soccer Australia would finally get their shit together.   Tes is saying they will come because we qualify every 4 years.  

 i think its important to qualify, but not because of his reasons:

1.  its the world cup. 

2. its good for every aspect of the game here.

 

I dunno about Kewell (my memory was that he didn't care too much when we weren't doing well) but Dukes and others were definitely committed to the cause. They were even funding their own way for Socceroos games.

[Shahanga]

That was just kewells personality or how he came across.

England were desperate for him to commit to them when he was taking the Premier League by storm as a teenager at Leeds & I'm sure he would have made even more money if he had.

Croatia would have loved to have the Duk and Ireland wanted Cahill. One of my points (which I thought was so obviousl it didn't need to be said) was these 3 weren't rejects from other countries.

PS. I wasn't really referring to guys who might play with passion but rather the quality of the side. You fill your team with other countries rejects its by definition not going to be that good, so attracting or not attracting fringe level players is not going to make a big difference in terms of getting out of your group and of course in winning the World Cup (which has to be the long term goal).

Edited November 17, 2016 by Shahanga
Updated

[malloy]

35 minutes ago, Shahanga said:

That was just kewells personality or how he came across.

England were desperate for him to commit to them when he was taking the Premier League by storm as a teenager at Leeds & I'm sure he would have made even more money if he had.

Croatia would have loved to have the Duk and Ireland wanted Cahill. One of my points (which I thought was so obviousl it didn't need to be said) was these 3 weren't rejects from other countries.

PS. I wasn't really referring to guys who might play with passion but rather the quality of the side. You fill your team with other countries rejects its by definition not going to be that good, so attracting or not attracting fringe level players is not going to make a big difference in terms of getting out of your group and of course in winning the World Cup (which has to be the long term goal).

I agree with everything you are saying. my post's intention was to add to yours by trying to allude to the fact that these players wouldnt be so committed to the socceroos if they had merely chosen us because of the so called football 'opportunities' afforded to them by playing for us when thos opportunities where few and far between at that point in time.

[dr lime]

On 16/11/2016 at 6:19 PM, playmaker said:

You know what the problem is? The fact that Ange wants to play a certain way with a team where only 5 players are capable of it.

To play that high possession, pressing, high passing game you actually need the players with a very high skill level and a team with instinctive movement.

Second mistake was using 3 up front with no target-type forward and 2 wingers that a just not up to it.

Third mistake was thinking that in those oppressive conditions that a team can play that high workrate tactics for 90 minutes.

The game was totally mismanaged but all we will hear from the Fox fanboys and Ange himself that is that Ange wants to play a certain way and players are good enough and all the other positive affirmation crap. This feel good approach may work with kids but won't cut it on the international stage.

Our players aren't good enough to play the way he wants because they think they are good enough. We need a manager that can objectively and accurately manage our team and each game. If you look at Hiddink's management of Australia and the tweeking he made for every game you will get an idea of what I mean.

With the current game plan and with the current squad we will get smashed.

Solution: get a better thinking and more dynamic manager with a smaller ego.

I have generally been a fan of Ange's but I agree with some of this. I don't think he has picked the right line-ups in the past two games: two slow moving strikers up front against Japan in a 4-4-2 who couldn't get to the ball first; and a Number 9 against Thailand who never presented as a target, just played off the shoulder of the last defender hoping for a ball over the top. Even worse, McLaren was unable to get in front of his man to present a target when we had the ball out wide, which I think was part of the trouble for Kruse: looking up when get got past defenders out wide there was no-one to aim for.  Should have had a bigger, stronger target man to aim at against the short arse Thai defenders. 

I am now really concerned that opposition countries have worked out how to beat us: sit back and keep the space between the midfield and defensive lines tight and then counter quickly wiith players getting behind our full-backs, who are both slow to get back and play too narrow most of the time (although this narrowness seems to be a modern phenomenon everywhere). Rogic is terribly lazy, so when there is no space between the lines he doesn't work to get into whatever limited space there is and also gets in the way of others like Mooy and Luongo  who may like to do it for him. Rogic and Mooy are both lazy in getting back to defend so playing on the counter is ideal against us. If the Thais can do it so effectively against us, everyone else is going to do it also and probably be better at it. I am starting to worry...   

 

[Nate]

if we tried moving the ball quicker and stopped focusing so heavily on possession football, our opponents' wouldn't have as much time to organise themselves into such resolute defensive formations. 

the similarities between the Socceroos and Melbourne City really are uncanny.

[n i k o]

Wrong thread 

Edited November 19, 2016 by n i k o

[Tesla]

Sainsbury to Inter

[Shahanga]

2 hours ago, Tesla said:

Sainsbury to Inter

Massive move.  The challenge for him now will be getting game time of course.

[haz]

35 minutes ago, Shahanga said:

Massive move.  The challenge for him now will be getting game time of course.

Inter(resting).    But in all seriousness, both clubs are owned by the same Chinese company. I see this move as just a way for his Chinese club to open a visa spot while he rots on the Seria A bench.

[Nate]

he won't start ahead of Miranda but with the only other centre halves being Murillo and Andreolli, you just never know!

either way, good move.

[Tesla]

They wouldn't move him to Inter if they just wanted to get rid of him from the Chinese team, they must see him being of some use at Inter.

[haz]

5 minutes ago, Tesla said:

They wouldn't move him to Inter if they just wanted to get rid of him from the Chinese team, they must see him being of some use at Inter.

To reverse bang Icardi's wife. She'd love some Trent

Edited February 1, 2017 by haz

[Shahanga]

Massive couple of games coming up.

Accordinv to my Iranian mate, we can expect a small pro Iraq crowd in the Tehran game (no love lost for either of us, apparently).

And we simply have to win at home.

[Tony999]

A good read....

Studs Up: Australia won’t produce world class players until skills are practiced at pre-school age

David Davutovic, Herald Sun

March 21, 2017 12:11pm

AUSTRALIA won’t produce world class players until kids are technically competent at pre-school, according to one of Asia’s top technical coaches.

Tom Byer, who’s helped drive Japan’s cultural revolution, said coaches were overrated, adding that Australia faces the same cultural barriers producing players as his native USA.

Byer had a nationally televised football corner focusing on technical skills running for 14 years on the country’s no.1 kids TV show.

Football Federation Australia has invested tens of millions of dollars at foreign technical directors and foreign youth coaches, but Byer said the focus had to start earlier.

Now employed by the Chinese ministry of education, Byer is working on pilot programs for toddlers.

KEWELL: What we need to do to find the ‘next Harry’

Join David Davutovic from 12pm AEDT for his weekly Studs Up football chat at the foot of the page.

Click here to chat if the blog is not showing at the foot of the page.

The former professional player said football (soccer) couldn’t produce ‘late bloomers’ like Aussie Rules and American football because it was so highly technical.

“Football is a sport that takes a ridiculous amount of time to become good,’’ Byer said.

“There’s no Cindarella stories of Canada’s going to win the World Cup or you’re going to find a kid that started playing at 13.

“If you get them by a certain age, they develop. To bridge that gap is nearly impossible for other kids.

“We claim to be the world’s game and the world’s game is literally failing millions and millions of kids.

“Kids that play the sport are technically incompetent. They’re not good enough.’’

Former Australian football player Harry Kewell.

‘FOOTBALL STARTS AT HOME’

As his book “Football starts at home” suggests, Byer said kids needed to have a strong technical base otherwise a professional career was unrealistic.

Having followed the Australian scene closely, he said Australia’s golden generation Mark Viduka, Harry Kewell and Ned Zelic, like Borussia Dortmund’s current US prodigy Christian Pulisic, benefitted from early exposure at home.

“When I read biographies or interviews from Neymar, (Cristiano) Ronaldo, (Lionel) Messi, (Luis) Suarez – all of them attribute their technical ability and early success not to any coach, but the father,’’ he said.

“Australia’s golden generation is the result of the immigration from Europe, with the Croats, Italians, Greeks and the rest.

“It’s hard to replicate now because football doesn’t start at home anymore and everybody’s scratching their heads.

“Fast forward a couple of decades ahead and the cultures become diluted. The Croatian or Greek kid is married to the blond-haired blue-eyed surfer boy or girl.

Mark Viduka.

“They’re trying to discover the wheel, it’s got to do with player development, it’s not the coach’s fault.

“The coaching at elite level in USA and Australia is better than Japan and Korea, the difference is that Japan and Korea, players are better technically.

“Skill is rarely the result of coaching, it’s discipline and culture. Kids in Japan train 52 weeks of the year.

“The problem is, nobody knows what the problem is. That’s the problem.’’

Feature Interview

‘THE GOLDEN AGE OF SKILL ACQUISITION’ STARTS AGE 2

Byer understands that federations are reluctant to introduce his “disruptive” program.

While most ‘elite’ skill acquisition programs take place from 10-13, including Australia’s, Byer said it had to start a lot earlier.

“If you can get a child between 2-5 interested in a football, that’s the game-changer,’’ Byer said.

 

“By interest I don’t mean randomly kicking it, because any person can do that, I mean manipulating the ball - learning to pull the ball back, changing the direction and protecting the ball.

“A Latin kid in Chile, Spain, Brazil or Italy, by time they start walking have a ball at their feet and if you give him a challenge, he pulls it back and protects it and keeps it.

“You give that same ball to a Chinese, American or Australian kid and try and challenge. He’ll kick it away and either run to try and outrace you or he’ll freeze.

“For me that changes the whole trajectory of a kids development if you can get a kid from that very early age.

“I believe most football federations around the world have got it wrong. They take their best skill acquisition (happening at a much older age, 10-13 years of age.

“I started trying to disprove this theory with my kids. I put little balls in all my rooms and made them part of the environment so that when my boy would walk up to address the ball from the time he started walking, I discouraged kicking.’’

[haz]

We continuously talk about how our kids arnt skilled, arnt getting coaching at a young age etc etc. But how do Brazil, Spain, Portugual, Uruguay, Croatia Argentina produce all these good players who grew up in the slums?

[Tony999]

6 minutes ago, haz said:

We continuously talk about how our kids arnt skilled, arnt getting coaching at a young age etc etc. But how do Brazil, Spain, Portugual, Uruguay, Croatia Argentina produce all these good players who grew up in the slums?

Maybe because the only thing those kids have is a ball and start to develop skills so early in life whereas the Australian kid has ipads, game console's and computers and start playing the game late?

[haz]

58 minutes ago, Tony999 said:

Maybe because the only thing those kids have is a ball and start to develop skills so early in life whereas the Australian kid has ipads, game console's and computers and start playing the game late?

My thoughts too, pretty much their only way out of poverty

[Shahanga]

Actually Byers is talking like its some big revelation?  i thought everyone knew that stuff.  That's what they talk about on coaching courses.  get 'em young, get 'em to play.  Let the game teach the kids.  its something we are getting better at, but obviously need to do more and the current "console generation" might* not be helping.

* I say might because in my and my forum peers days, basically social activities were sport, reading, or a few TV channels.  Most kids played A LOT of sport, even those who weren't any good at it.  Nowadays the kids with no aptitude wouldn't play any.  Might be a health problem, but its not an elite pathway problem.  The issue only comes if the talented, athletic kids aren't playing and I don't know whether that is considered a problem or not.  

[belaguttman]

The current players that Byers is referring to didn't train under the current curriculum in their formative years

Edited March 23, 2017 by belaguttman

[jw1739]

I don't think that there's a single magic bullet. Forgive the "in my day" thoughts, but when I was a kid I lived for football (and cricket). Watched the firsts one week, the reserves the next. Walked 2 miles to the ground, stood in the pissing rain, nearly froze to death, and was half way home before I could feel my feet again. On the bike down to the station after tea, bought the "Green 'Un", read it from front to back, top to bottom, then read it again. Repeat on a weekly basis. Not much of a player myself, but we played at school in "games periods" then with a tennis ball at recess and lunch. Played for the Old Boys, then the Uni then for the village where I lived. At the weekends we played in the street, forever in trouble when the ball went into someone or other's front garden. That's how you love the game. And of course any kid who was any good was spotted playing and got a trial with Colchester or Leyton Orient or somewhere and was on his way with a bit of luck.

The circumstances in the slums and the barrios are different, but it's the same deal really. Everybody's in love with the game and the cream rises to the top. I don't think you'll ever reach the same heights, whatever glossy documents and plans are drawn up, whatever perfect facilities are provided, without being in love with the game. They'll help, of course they will, but they can't replace love.

[Shahanga]

3hrs to kick off. Iraq have lost 4 & only beaten Thailand. We need to sink the slipper into them here and get the 3 points.

[kingofhearts]

Surely we can sneak a win. Timmy to come off the bench and score a winner.

[haz]

Mooy starting for Socceroos against Iraq.

[Tony999]

Here comes a win against the Iraqi's.

Allah is great!

[kingofhearts]

Jesus these fucking vuvuzelas  stfu

[n i k o]

Plenty of possession. No chances. Two counters against that should have been goals. Right at home with this game. 

[Tony999]

Gotta love the 3-4-3 formation 

[xXCiTyZeNXx]

We're shit

Kruse=shit

Luongo=shit

Leckey=shit

Ange=biggest load of shit to have came to Australia 

[kingofhearts]

We're back oooooo yeah

[xXCiTyZeNXx]

Lecker is still shit

[Tesla]

Not sure if international match or Sunday league. 

[Tony999]

At least that will shut up those friggen annoying horns!

[n i k o]

3 minutes ago, Tesla said:

Not sure if international match or Sunday league. 

Pitch quality is shit 

Edited March 23, 2017 by n i k o

[mattyh001]

Oh Aaron Mooy is magic, he wears a magic hat ....

 

He takes the corners on the left, he takes them on the right 😜

And when we make the cup

We'll sing this song all night ..... OH

 

 

 

 

Fairly shite game, made worse by that kent Harper

Edited March 23, 2017 by mattyh001

[xXCiTyZeNXx]

The horns were giving me anxiety