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The road to the WC Finals - now 2022


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7 minutes ago, belaguttman said:

Tournament coaches are different from qualification coaches. He's certainly a good qualification coach (opposite of Ange who is a better tournament coach). My only reservation is that, having established a style of play, can this coach continue with, and build on what has been started by Ange or will we change direction again? It would be sad if we lost our momentum

TBH I dont think we had much momentum....

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52 minutes ago, belaguttman said:

I think that under Ange we would have performed much better at the WC, but much like Bielsa's period coaching Chile, it has set up an enduring lagacy if we take advantage of it. I'm worried that Bert and Arnie will squander it

Who knows, I just hope we get past the group stage

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I'm actually with Bela. And now my opinion of Van Marwijk is mainly based on his time with Netherlands and in particular the 2010 WC. He had a side with players that could of won the world cup easily but his pragmatic almost negative approach created a  very difficult team to watch. He turned a team that was traditionally great to watch into a very aggressive rough uncompromising dirty team. Obviously they made the final and lost to probably the best international side since Brazil in the 70s in Spain, but they got there more out of luck and individual brilliance than anything else. 

What will he do with the Socceroos? I think if we get out of the group that would be massive but as long as we are not embarrassed with a couple bad losses then that would be acceptable. 

All in all I don't like it, I can't see anything positive long term from it and ultimately we will probably end up with the same national team performances back in 2011/2012. And Cahill can kiss his WC goodbye. This bloke is more dogmatic than Joyce.

What were the alternatives, we will never know so good luck to Bert, you'll need all of it.

Edited by Jovan
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A great article from The Guardian that articulates my concerns much more eloquently than I

Quote

Uninspiring, pragmatic, Dutch. These three words have dominated the initial response to Bert van Marwijk’s hire as Socceroos coach for this year’s World Cup. The 65-year-old is all three of those things, granted. Fundamentally, he will be an ideological departure from what Ange Postecoglou sought to implement.

Examining Van Marwijk’s recent coaching history has worth in this discussion, but it’s also missing the point to a degree – this doesn’t relate to the fatuous narrative of Football Federation Australia’s Dutch crutch in times of uncertainty and the conspicuously early timing of official statement. 

What has been lost in the reactionary noise: why did Australian football get here? Why is the Socceroos coach again a philosophical opposite to his predecessor?

We must remember, before Postecoglou came Holger Osieck, who was widely criticised by the Australian football media for a prosaic approach by the end of his tenure. Then Postecoglou, initially lauded for his “never take a backwards step” ethos, has ultimately been viewed as too cavalier in the search for attacking balance.

Where Postecoglou found trouble on a tactical basis was the nature of Australia’s possession, not possession itself. Tactical discussion descended into counter-productive and scared ideas; reverting to a four-man defence was the most notable among them. The reality remains, despite aesthetic differences between Postecoglou and Osieck, they were both chased out of the door at the first point of wider discomfort.

Though potentially short, Van Marwijk’s hire alarmingly reflects the Australian game’s state of perpetual chaos. This impulsive lack of continuity from an ideological standpoint also hints at a misunderstanding of the game itself, because at its core lies risk. In football, attack or defence cannot eliminate the threat of the other, but only attempt to minimise it.

 

Although Van Marwijk might also fit FFA’s financial criteria, with Australia’s group at this year’s showpiece in context, this reversal in ideology becomes all the more perplexing.

Speculating on the composition of Australia’s squad in June is futile but what is likely, given the coach’s track record, they will revert to a 4-2-3-1 formation and absorb pressure. This tactical tenet was the basis upon which the Netherlands built a path to the World Cup final in 2010, with battering rams in Mark van Bommel and Nigel de Jong at the base of midfield, bullying both the opposition and Dutch football history.

It was little different for Saudi Arabia’s qualification for this year’s edition, despite benefitting from the Socceroos’ blips against Thailand and Iraq earlier in the second group stage.

No group is easy at the World Cup and progression to the knockout stages is never a guarantee, but Australia’s group is still a relatively favourable one. Despite Fifa rankings, none of the Socceroos’ opponents could be called the strongest from their respective pots.

France have an abundance of attacking talent in Paul Pogba, Ousmane Dembélé and the relentlessly vertical Kylian Mbappé but in Uefa’s qualification phase, they scored the second-lowest amount of goals (18) out of group winners, just ahead of Iceland (16).

Les Bleus’ struggles with fluidity have been at times offset by Antoine Griezmann’s movement centrally, but coach Didier Deschamps’ tactical apprehension has benefitted the rigid likes of N’Golo Kanté, Blaise Matuidi and Moussa Sissoko in midfield – at the expense of Corentin Tolisso. Meanwhile, robust striking options in Olivier Giroud and Kevin Gameiro have been favoured as the more dynamic Alexandre Lacazette remains on the outer.

Outside of Pione Sisto on the left flank, Denmark are physical and very much reliant on the majestic Christian Eriksen, with Thomas Delaney merely industrious on his best day. Åge Hareide’s switch to Andreas Cornelius and Nicolai Jørgensen as attacking pivots late in the qualification phase – as Yussuf Poulsen shifted wide – has only reinforced this.

Although Peru’s return from a 36-year absence at the World Cup is no doubt a welcome one, they’re realistically not a better side than Australia’s most recent incarnation, irrespective of whether Paolo Guerrero plays or not.

Overall, the Socceroos have no logical reason to fear their opponents in Russia, but risk could be unnecessarily heightened through Van Marwijk’s fundamentally reactive strategy.

The overwhelming pressure that aided Postecoglou’s departure from the Australian national team was rooted in risk-aversion. Consequently, how can risk-aversion be alleviated by shifting to Van Marwijk’s tactical principles, bowing to innately flawed opposition in Russia? If at all?

It will suit the Dutchman just fine, but he will eventually be judged on his results over what could potentially be a short reign. There’s not much wrong with that in isolation, but it’s a disproportionately small sample that can impact the future direction of Australian football on a greater scale. With the latter in mind, it is hard to ignore why Van Marwijk was hired to begin with, as opposed to how.

7

 

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Not sure what to think. Since I started following Australian football I have been perplexed by the Dutch approach. Since I don't have the history behind it, other than knowing that they revolutionised  football in the 70s, they have not won a world cup, did not qualify for this world cup and have been pedestrian for a while. Furthermore, the team that went to Germany was not crafted by the Dutch method. So if we get a hard nut, fine. Will Australia be watchable? We'll find out. But more importantly, and this applies to any coach, what can they do with the cattle at hand?

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Delighted with this appointment.

Lets be clear: Postecoglou left us-as he always does- when he realized he has gone as far as he was going to get.    People forget we were half a goal post from being eliminated in the last kick against Syria. 6 WC games, 6 losses is not a good CV record. .

Enough of the past.

BVM will fix up our leaky defense.  Our players know his preferred 4231 like the back of their hands. Having coached against us he knows where the weaknesses and strengths are. 

Sheckshy football?  We as a football nation are so naive its actually cute: at the WC 3 things matter: results, results and results.

As far as WC 2010, I think people are forgetting that Dutch side individually was so far behind Brazil who they beat let alone Spain/ Barcelona who were untouchable.  Ye he resorted to fighball, but that was in the final not the whole  tournament.  The Dutch played beautiful in 1974, and 1978 and in the Euros in 1988 but never won the biggest dance-and hence the fightball in the 2010 final

 

 

 

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  • 2 weeks later...

Hopefully we'll see a few new faces in the squad with a new coach with a fresh perspective. Ange had relied on the same core group of players, many who had under performed or not suited the system. Troisi, Milligan, Smith, McGowan and co will have to start performing to get a call up now instead of being on Ange's list of favourites. Happy days.

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  • 4 weeks later...
1 hour ago, Jovan said:

Appointment of Arnie is just another complete reactionary fuck up by the FFA. 

We needed a coach with a vision and a style to influence all levels of the national teams, not a reactionary uninspiring whinger.

Oh hai Tim

Edited by bt50
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20 hours ago, Shahanga said:

Am stoked at this decision. Best man for the job.

Dear haters, get stuffed.

ps bonus is it guts Scum FC

Don't worry, FFA will find a way for Sydney FC to win everything even when he isn't coach.

In terms of appointed Arnie, what a catastrophe for Australia. Might as well bring Eddie Thompson, Farina or Venables back. 

Edited by Tony999
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On 10/03/2018 at 9:38 AM, jw1739 said:

Wazza would have been good. He'd have fallen out with half the old-timers in the squad already and have had to bring in new faces for the first match.

His first big move would be to drop Mooy for Malik, then bring Topor Stanley in to midfield 

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27 minutes ago, jw1739 said:

Someone pls explain to me why we have to have van Marwijk at all, and why Arnold can't take over the NT right now?

I suspect it was because Arnie wanted to see the season out at Sydney, as well as have a clean slate to work with.

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  • 2 weeks later...

Defence: Shit, thankfully only Ryan and Behich should be in the XI come the World Cup

Midfield: Jedinak and Mooy are givens. Irvine is good in the air but not the best passer, definitely need Luongo in there to retain more of the ball as we'll be under the pump a lot in the WC

Up Top: Leckie is probably the only certainty, Petratos offers something different to Kruse but neither have the ability of Leckie to work back when we lose the ball.

Tough gig ahead for BvM, expect to see some improvement against Colombia as it would be pretty hard to go backwards.

 

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With the mediocre performances in the qualifications against 3rd tier teams, why are people surprised with this result?

We are garbage and the previous experimental tactics were never going hold up and more so damage any chance we had to be competitive.

I just hope Van Marwijk can fix what Postacoglu has broken.

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Best XI wise a majority of the positions pick themselves and we have a solid if unspectacular squad, all of who'm wouldn't look out of place in lower tier EPL sides. It's the 2 vacant positions that will give us the most grief, we haven't had a decent right back since Wilkshire last played and unless Kruse rediscovers his form of years ago the options on the left are pretty thin. 

 

Ryan

? - Sainsbury - Jurman - Behich

Luongo - Mooy - Jedinak

Leckie - Juric - ?

 

On the bright side we're not playing a back 3 anymore and BvM may hopefully give some of Ange's favourites the flick if they continue to under-perform.

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I don't get the Ange hate here (and elsewhere). We've tried a sudden U-turn style wise and rolled over. It'll only get worse under Arnold, reactive defensive football with players that can't defend as a team and make too many individual errors.:( I'm expecting nothing from BvM and less from Arnold.

Allegedly Bielsa was keen to take the job and the money wasn't an issue but FFA knocked him back because he can't speak English. Anyone would think that he was applying for an AFL coaching job.

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5 hours ago, belaguttman said:

I don't get the Ange hate here

Because he has wrecked our potential with his delusion and self importance. He got out because he knew what he did was shit and knows he was lucky to fake his way through to qualification. So instead of manning up  and following through by doing the right thing, he got out to save face like a weak prick that he is because he knew we had no chance by playing his way.

Weak as piss.

Van Marwijk is quality and hopefully can repair the damage in time.

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