jw1739 Posted January 1, 2015 Report Share Posted January 1, 2015 A place to discuss the rules and regulations connected with the salary cap, the squad numbers cap, visa players, loan, guest and marquee players, transfer fees between A-League clubs, and so on and so forth. It seems that there's a head of steam building up about this topic, so here's the place to give your opinions and vent your spleens! Just to get the ball rolling...the usual argument for maintaining the salary cap is that it: - works to make the clubs roughly equal and therefore gives more excitement to the competition by giving more clubs a chance of winning it; - makes the clubs financially sustainable in the longer term. Arguments for raising the cap, or for abolishing it altogether, are that: - the better Australian players who can command a greater financial reward than the cap allows automatically go elsewhere to further their careers. This entrenches the A-League in mediocrity and hence restricts the growth of the game in this country. - it does not allow (except for a marquee player) quality overseas players to play here. In this context, the "Lampard Rule" recently introduced by FFA now effectively prevents loans of overseas players to Australian clubs, and even prevents the loan-back of Australian players signed by overseas clubs. - it makes Australian clubs bargain basement recruiting targets for overseas clubs. - together with the squad numbers cap it restricts the development of promising young Australian players. Once they are no longer eligible for the National Youth League then they have to be released by the clubs. That's just a few of the points that come to mind. Let's hear your views... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nate Posted January 1, 2015 Report Share Posted January 1, 2015 Heart era: "The salary cap is a great idea!" City era: "The salary cap is shit farken" 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
schrecky Posted January 1, 2015 Report Share Posted January 1, 2015 I like the cap. Without it the league would fall in heap and we would be back to square 1. Soon there will be more money to spread and you could double the cap - the game is growing and so is its revenue. Currently the cap is 10-20% of a clubs total expense. There is room to make it more . Just a little patients is required Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kingofhearts Posted January 1, 2015 Report Share Posted January 1, 2015 Wheres Parrot? Thought he'd be all over this thread. I like the salary cap, i just think teams like CCM and Newy would be fucked is it was to be removed. If you could all the teams at a reasonably stable level financially then i would remove the cap Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
InMyHeart Posted January 1, 2015 Report Share Posted January 1, 2015 things Id change - VISA players payments to be excluded from Salary Cap - Lift Squad numbers to 25 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tesla Posted January 1, 2015 Report Share Posted January 1, 2015 - works to make the clubs roughly equal and therefore gives more excitement to the competition by giving more clubs a chance of winning it;It does. But at the cost of the overall quality suffering.- makes the clubs financially sustainable in the longer term.Nope. It doesn't make a difference. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parrot Posted January 1, 2015 Report Share Posted January 1, 2015 The very low salary cap and all the other FFA impediments on clubs are preventing the A League from growing and preventing any A League clubs from seriously being a big club in Asia. It's impossible for any A League club to be a big club in Asia, no matter how financial it is, if nearly all of its squad, bar maybe 2 Marquee players are paid bargain basement wages and the best/most promising players are open slather to be picked off by Asian clubs and others that don't operate in a low salary capped football world. It seems some folks are scared of a much higher salary cap - or the removal of a salary cap. Why? No club should be forced to pay a higher salary cap. But allow transfer fees between A League clubs and a club like Central Coast would have been able to sell some of its promising talent to other A League clubs instead of getting nothing for some of them them or losing them all overseas. No transfer fees between A League clubs is in fact disadvantaging the less financial clubs. The exact opposite of what the nannying FFA intended. In addition, what incentive is there for clubs to build a strong youth squad when most players are lost for nothing? Because there are only about 22 spots available in the senior squad most of the young talent is cast adrift when they are too old for the Youth squad, including players that A League clubs would like to have on their senior list as they are expected to further develop. Only a few of these players are lucky if another A League club picks them up. So much for a career path. The answer is to have increased squad sizes, of course it is NOT to reduce the number of visa places and further lower the quality of the A League, FFA in its nannying, equalising manner has now made it very difficult for clubs to bring in loan players from overseas, making us even more insular but also highlighting how pathetically low our salary cap is. Because the quality of the A League has increased to a much more acceptable level for overseas clubs, having access to decent loan players is in fact a way that our less financial clubs can get quality and NOT have to pay. It can make them more competitive! But FFA, showing it has little understanding, and in a panic move because we looked like getting Frank Lampard damaged the A League by preventing us from bringing in Lampard. Thousands of less folks have attended our games, home and away, except for the Derbies, TV ratings are less than with Lampard playing and FFA cost itself hundreds of thousands, possibly millions, in lost free media publicity. My suggestions for next season: 1. Increase the salary cap to $3.5 million. But no club is obliged to pay any more than this season. 2. Allow clubs to have senior squad sizes of their choosing, thus improving the chances of more youth players being added to senior squads. 3. Next season allow clubs to employ 3 players - from anywhere - outside the salary cap. This is increased to 4, then 5, then 6 in the following years. 4. Number of visa players must NOT be reduced from 5, lowering the quality of the A League and making our competition even more insular. 5. Allow transfer fees between A League clubs. This will help the less financial clubs. 6. No restrictions on loan players. As the salary is being paid by the parent club none of this should count in the A League cub's salary cap. Again, this can help less financial clubs. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
strider Posted January 1, 2015 Report Share Posted January 1, 2015 The best leagues in the world don't have a salary cap /thread Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sheepdog Posted January 1, 2015 Report Share Posted January 1, 2015 The best leagues in the world don't have a salary cap /thread The beat leagues in the world also have the richest clubs in thw world 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nate Posted January 1, 2015 Report Share Posted January 1, 2015 The best leagues in the world don't have a salary cap /thread The beat leagues in the world also have the richest clubs in thw world And are from countries where football is the undisputed number 1 sport. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
True Until I die Posted January 1, 2015 Report Share Posted January 1, 2015 I have always felt that the league needs to grow together. The salary cap must continually increase which allows for clubs to have a bit more freedom etc. I believe the salary cap must still exist as the league just would not work with some teams being so much stronger than others (we know its already the case off-field). It was one contributing factor to the demise of the NSL. Teams would run stagnant for several years with little progress. I also want to see squad sizes increased with clubs forced to have a few players under the age of 20 as senior contracted players. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tesla Posted January 1, 2015 Report Share Posted January 1, 2015 (edited) 1. Increase the salary cap to $3.5 million. But no club is obliged to pay any more than this season.3. Next season allow clubs to employ 3 players - from anywhere - outside the salary cap. This is increased to 4, then 5, then 6 in the following years.Honestly you might as well just completely get rid of the cap. I doubt any club would be spending $3.5m not including the 3 highest earners on salaries even if they were able to. It's not worth the costs associated with having the cap if it isn't likely to actually cap anyone. Edited January 1, 2015 by Tesla Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jw1739 Posted January 1, 2015 Author Report Share Posted January 1, 2015 All those in favour of maintaining the status quo should be forced to watch the WSW vs. CCM match tonight in its entirety. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mus-28 Posted January 1, 2015 Report Share Posted January 1, 2015 The cap is perfectly fine atm. Clubs need to improve their recruitment of players and improve coaching if the league is really going to improve. Just look at the quality in the Visitors squad, 5 good foreigners, a handful of current and former Socceroos and some quality u21's. Then look at the Mariners or Jets, poor foreign recruitment is what kills them. You increase the cap then the players will expect a pay rise in line with that increase, so you're just paying the same players more money. Perhaps a $200k increase and 2 extra squad spots, while lowering the minimum wage to $35k and allow those players to supplement it in the NPL during the off season. Would allow the clubs to add a few more players from youth team to full time contracts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parrot Posted January 2, 2015 Report Share Posted January 2, 2015 The cap is perfectly fine atm. Clubs need to improve their recruitment of players and improve coaching if the league is really going to improve. Just look at the quality in the Visitors squad, 5 good foreigners, a handful of current and former Socceroos and some quality u21's. Then look at the Mariners or Jets, poor foreign recruitment is what kills them. You increase the cap then the players will expect a pay rise in line with that increase, so you're just paying the same players more money. Perhaps a $200k increase and 2 extra squad spots, while lowering the minimum wage to $35k and allow those players to supplement it in the NPL during the off season. Would allow the clubs to add a few more players from youth team to full time contracts. "The cap is perfectly fine atm." I agree with you 100% if football was only played professionally here like Aussie Rules. But it IS NOT. "The cap is perfectly fine atm" only if you want the A League to be a guaranteed half way house - where most players on the salary cap with any serious quality leave after a season or two. "Clubs need to improve their recruitment of players and improve coaching if the league is really going to improve." Please. Maybe you'd like to tell us how clubs can bring in serious quality when they can't pay these players internationally competitive salaries. You knock our coaches. On what evidence? Tony Popovic is Asian Coach of the Year. Anyway, you can only do so much with budget, bargain priced players. "Just look at the quality in the Visitors squad, 5 good foreigners, a handful of current and former Socceroos and some quality u21's." Why didn't you add ---- Because of the salary cap they're going to be forced to lose plenty of these players as it is impossible to financially reward them and pay them an internationally competitive salary. "You increase the cap then the players will expect a pay rise in line with that increase, so you're just paying the same players more money." Really? What's happened to your recruitment argument? Conveniently forgotten it? With a substantially increased salary cap clubs will be able to recruit better quality players and keep better quality players here longer, not pay more money to Ramsays etc. "Perhaps a $200k increase and 2 extra squad spots, while lowering the minimum wage to $35k" You've got to be kidding? Do you have any idea how someone survives on $35k a year these days, or are you a school kid? How long do you think any starting 11 players or bench players will accept being in the poor house on $35k a year? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parrot Posted January 2, 2015 Report Share Posted January 2, 2015 (edited) Western Sydney Wanderers striker Tomi Juric has declared himself ready to leave the A-League for European football.http://theworldgame.sbs.com.au/article/2015/01/01/wanderers-striker-juric-targets-european-move Why? He's hardly played in the A League. The main reason is obvious. The A League's low salary cap. If he was already receiving a similar pay check from the Wanderers to what he is being offered from elsewhere then there's a tough decision to be made. But when you can earn hundreds of thousands and much more playing elsewhere, there's no decision to be made. Now all the Wanderers need to do according to mus-28 is recruit properly so they can find a budget, bargain priced player as good as Juric. lol rofl Edited January 2, 2015 by Parrot Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nate Posted January 2, 2015 Report Share Posted January 2, 2015 Western Sydney Wanderers striker Tomi Juric has declared himself ready to leave the A-League for European football.http://theworldgame.sbs.com.au/article/2015/01/01/wanderers-striker-juric-targets-european-move Why? He's hardly played in the A League. The main reason is obvious. The A League's low salary cap. If he was already receiving a similar pay check from the Wanderers to what he is being offered from elsewhere then there's a tough decision to be made. But when you can earn hundreds of thousands and much more playing elsewhere, there's no decision to be made. Now all the Wanderers need to do according to mus-28 is recruit properly so they can find a budget, bargain priced player as good as Juric. lol rofl Sometimes life isn't as simple as "throw money at it", there are other factors that have to be considered. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kingofhearts Posted January 2, 2015 Report Share Posted January 2, 2015 Western Sydney Wanderers striker Tomi Juric has declared himself ready to leave the A-League for European football.http://theworldgame.sbs.com.au/article/2015/01/01/wanderers-striker-juric-targets-european-move Why? He's hardly played in the A League. The main reason is obvious. The A League's low salary cap. If he was already receiving a similar pay check from the Wanderers to what he is being offered from elsewhere then there's a tough decision to be made. But when you can earn hundreds of thousands and much more playing elsewhere, there's no decision to be made. Now all the Wanderers need to do according to mus-28 is recruit properly so they can find a budget, bargain priced player as good as Juric. lol rofl Maybe its because WSW blow and he wants to abandon a sinking ship? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tesla Posted January 2, 2015 Report Share Posted January 2, 2015 Western Sydney Wanderers striker Tomi Juric has declared himself ready to leave the A-League for European football.http://theworldgame.sbs.com.au/article/2015/01/01/wanderers-striker-juric-targets-european-move Why? He's hardly played in the A League.The main reason is obvious. The A League's low salary cap.If he was already receiving a similar pay check from the Wanderers to what he is being offered from elsewhere then there's a tough decision to be made.But when you can earn hundreds of thousands and much more playing elsewhere, there's no decision to be made.Now all the Wanderers need to do according to mus-28 is recruit properly so they can find a budget, bargain priced player as good as Juric. lol roflPoor example, he makes clear he is much more interested in moving to Europe than China, when you'd imagine he'd get paid more in China. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parrot Posted January 4, 2015 Report Share Posted January 4, 2015 RUSSIA-BASED Socceroo Ivan Franjic revealed that he is eager to return to the A-League on loan after the Asian Cup.... Brisbane Roar has struggled to replace the barnstorming right-back since he signed for Torpedo Moscow last August, but new salary cap rules regarding loan players could see him go elsewhere.http://www.couriermail.com.au/sport/football/asian-cup-2015-socceros-star-ivan-franjic-eyes-a-league-loan-deal-after-tournament/story-fnii0fc3-1227174141179?nk=4dbb870de9a58c6484ffbb8793b054bd What a disgrace that FFA bring in rules to weaken the quality of our competition. I would sack whoever was responsible for this pathetic rule. The AFL and Rugby must be laughing. Come to think of it, Gallup was a very good administrator here with salary capped rugby. But rugby pales into insignificance with football as a professional sport played across the world. We need some administrators in Australia who have had experience in senior football administration positions with competitions such as the EPL imo. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jw1739 Posted February 2, 2015 Author Report Share Posted February 2, 2015 FFA have deferred the change from 5 to 4 visa players until season 2017/18. http://www.footballaustralia.com.au/article/hyundai-a-league-foreign-player-cap-reduction-deferred-until-2017/hd9g5buiytz71rciyndm2rte9 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parrot Posted February 5, 2015 Report Share Posted February 5, 2015 (edited) I'm making this post with particular reference to some of our regular team selections. Personally I think the size of A League squads - about 22 players - is ridiculous. With a total of 16 players named on game day, all a side needs to do is have a few short term injuries, a player or two suspended, maybe players on international duty - and there is absolutely no competition for places. It is ridiculous that a player who has performed poorly gets selected week after week, even if they are starting on the bench. I just think of AFL squads. There is no way someone who has shown themselves to be out of their depth at senior level is named in the 22 week after week. The same should apply to the A League. If someone has shown themselves to be out of their depth or is in poor form, A League squads should be large enough to prevent that player from being selected among the 16 game day players. Edited February 5, 2015 by Parrot Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hedaik Posted February 5, 2015 Report Share Posted February 5, 2015 Parrots subject matter needs to be bigger ....... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kingofhearts Posted February 5, 2015 Report Share Posted February 5, 2015 Can feel another salary cap rant incoming. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jw1739 Posted February 5, 2015 Author Report Share Posted February 5, 2015 I have often wondered why with a monetary salary cap it is necessary to have a numbers cap as well. With the increase this season to a substitutes bench of five (GK+4) it could be argued that the numbers cap should have been raised to 24 and the salary cap proportionally as well. However, clubs are currently allowed an A-League squad of 23+3, and an NYL squad of 15 or so, and out of 38 players it ought to be possible to field a match-day squad of 16 with no problems. Replacements (if any are available) are allowed for national team duty and long-term injuries. IMO our present problems are that we failed to structure the squad appropriately during last off-season, with known weaknesses in the defence and forwards, and an over-abundance of midfielders, and that we again seem to have an injury-management problem as well. We have addressed one defensive weakness with the signing of Jack Clisby, and possibly another with the signing of Safuwan; the others so far have not been addressed. IMO at least some of our problems are of our own making and are not due to squad restrictions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parrot Posted March 17, 2015 Report Share Posted March 17, 2015 Simon Hill: salary cap doesn’t make sense in A-League and must be overhauled moving forward http://www.foxsports.com.au/football/simon-hill-salary-cap-doesnt-make-sense-in-a-league-and-must-be-overhauled-moving-forward/story-fnlt0cqp-1227265938827 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
n i k o Posted March 17, 2015 Report Share Posted March 17, 2015 (edited) It's actually concerning that FFA have only increased the regualtions on the league. Rather than go the other way and slowly allow more room for clubs to function. Their attempt to reduce the number of visa players is tell tale of where they are heading with the league. Edited March 17, 2015 by n i k o Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jw1739 Posted March 17, 2015 Author Report Share Posted March 17, 2015 Not that I'm interested in Formula 1 but it's interesting to read the recent claims that that "sport" is being made "boring" by over-regulation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
n i k o Posted April 3, 2015 Report Share Posted April 3, 2015 Just want to raise the discussion regarding visa and domestic players in other leagues. In the United States each team is allowed 8 international players with the remaining being domestic players. In the Premier League each club must have a quota of 8 home grown players of a possible 25 man squad. So essentially a team can comprise of a majority of international players. There's nothing stopping an MLS team of playing all 8 internationals on game day or a PL team of playing all international players. So what is FFA mentality with our domestic players v visa players? Their original plans to reduce the number of visa players to 4 tells me they are trying to involve more domestic players in the league. But to me this reduces the quality of the league and doesn't produce better Australian players. Should they have more internationals and make it harder for domestic players to get game time? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luke Posted April 3, 2015 Report Share Posted April 3, 2015 Just want to raise the discussion regarding visa and domestic players in other leagues. In the United States each team is allowed 8 international players with the remaining being domestic players. In the Premier League each club must have a quota of 8 home grown players of a possible 25 man squad. So essentially a team can comprise of a majority of international players. There's nothing stopping an MLS team of playing all 8 internationals on game day or a PL team of playing all international players. So what is FFA mentality with our domestic players v visa players? Their original plans to reduce the number of visa players to 4 tells me they are trying to involve more domestic players in the league. But to me this reduces the quality of the league and doesn't produce better Australian players. Should they have more internationals and make it harder for domestic players to get game time? FFA has to pretty closely comply with the AFC 3+1 rule, If the FFA wanted more young Australian players in the league then there are other ways of doing that by allowing cap concessions etc. better cap allowances for home grown developed players etc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shahanga Posted April 14, 2015 Report Share Posted April 14, 2015 Aside from Perth, there are rumours doing the rounds (so Simon Hill says) that 2 other clubs are over. Bizarrely it seems FFA have only audited Perth. No wonder they feel victimised (though not much sympathy from me). Wonder who the other 2 are rumoured to be? Scum & Tards? Hard to believe it's us, we couldn't even fill all visa spots due to the cap till half way through the season. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jw1739 Posted April 14, 2015 Author Report Share Posted April 14, 2015 Like you would guess Sydney and Victory. They'd be the first I would check anyway. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tesla Posted April 14, 2015 Report Share Posted April 14, 2015 Like you would guess Sydney and Victory. They'd be the first I would check anyway.I think they're both fine because their squads are filled out with youngsters, and they have big name marquees.The problem with perth is there arent many players who'd be on the minimum or close to it, and they made very poor use of their marquee spots. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shahanga Posted April 14, 2015 Report Share Posted April 14, 2015 Be kind of hilarious if it was us. we could "cheating" to the list of things we were bad at (not that I think it is). 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fidrildid6 Posted April 20, 2015 Report Share Posted April 20, 2015 Rumour going around that we are cheating the salary cap. https://twitter.com/neilsherwin/status/590146382050119680 Totally baseless at this stage, just putting it out there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shahanga Posted April 20, 2015 Report Share Posted April 20, 2015 Rumour going around that we are cheating the salary cap.https://twitter.com/neilsherwin/status/590146382050119680 Totally baseless at this stage, just putting it out there. Well those guys would say that wouldn't they? If it was anyone surely it would be Sydney. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dylan Posted April 20, 2015 Report Share Posted April 20, 2015 I think the two would be Adelaide and Brisbane. Wouldnt be surprised if it were Victory though. No way it is us considering all the spuds we have. All our money in the cap would be going toward Mooy, Paartalu, Duff and Wielaert. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thisphantomfortress Posted April 20, 2015 Report Share Posted April 20, 2015 So this rumour seems to be gaining some traction, could be a big issue if it is a few clubs. Just adds weight to Tesla's "scrap the cap" arguement. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shahanga Posted April 20, 2015 Report Share Posted April 20, 2015 I think the two would be Adelaide and Brisbane. Wouldnt be surprised if it were Victory though. No way it is us considering all the spuds we have. All our money in the cap would be going toward Mooy, Paartalu, Duff and Wielaert. I don't think it's us either Dylan. Remember we have Mauk Marino, Retre and Garuccio, who would all be on not much. In regards to spuds though, if a spud hired a spud they could be on a fair whack. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jw1739 Posted April 21, 2015 Author Report Share Posted April 21, 2015 I'm sure I read that clubs are required to submit reports on their progress and projected (i.e. June year-end) salary cap compliance to FFA on a quarterly basis, the first one in October of each season and then at three-monthly intervals thereafter. It is purportedly these reports that first alerted FFA to Perth's problems. On the salary cap question in general I am on record as being in the "no cap" camp, but recognise that to simply remove it in one fell swoop might be the death knell for a couple of clubs. FFA has of course exacerbated the problem with its hasty "Lampard Loan Rule" that effectively prevents quality players coming to our clubs on loan. At the moment the cap is effectively $2.7m for up to 24 players (remembering the overall 23+3 numbers cap), with an Australian and a visa marquee player allowed outside that cap. I would suggest that with that sort of limit the league will not progress much in quality and therefore entertainment value, if at all, and no amount of marketing hype and peripheral "matchday experience" add-ons are going to make significant difference. IMO this season has descended into farce over the Perth situation, compounded by the fixture congestion and the blatant fielding of at least one under-strength team by Brisbane that essentially handed MV the Premiers Plate. FFA needs to undertake a rigorous review of the league structure, caps and other rules. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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