Dean Bouzanis

[Habitual]

1 minute ago, KSK_47 said:

Logic/10. So if someone doesnt understand the severity of the word but still uses it as a slur it shouldnt matter?

Lets change the example. If he was following an Asian player around the field, pointing at them and loudly yelling "You're a fucking chink" you would be OK with it as long as he didnt understand how offensive it was?

Come on mate, don't be silly.

Being English we use the term all the time. Similar to pikeys etc. To us, its more saying someone is lower class or poor. Hardly a hanging offence. Bouzanis could've been referring to him as a gypsy for any of a number of plausible reasons. He might not understand it's a racist term. Like I said, same with Suarez and the Negarito comment. Where he's from its not racist, but the direct translation is a nigger which pretty obviously is.

Calling an Asian player a Chink would be fairly well known as a racist term. But Gypsy isn't like calling someone a Dirty Jew, Terrorist, Towelhead etc. Unless you're familiar with Europe, you could plead ignorance to its racial connections. I don't actually believe Bouzanis didn't know, but it's plausible, which opens the door for education, 1 game and putting up with little shits for a few training sessions to wise up. If he called Berisha a Nazi etc, different story!

These things come down to the reasonable person test and already other posters here weren't aware Gypsy is a racist term. Bouzanis' background says he should know, but maybe he doesn't??? The world can be grey mate.

[Tony999]

10 minutes ago, Habitual said:

Come on mate, don't be silly.

Being English we use the term all the time. Similar to pikeys etc. To us, its more saying someone is lower class or poor. Hardly a hanging offence. Bouzanis could've been referring to him as a gypsy for any of a number of plausible reasons. He might not understand it's a racist term. Like I said, same with Suarez and the Negarito comment. Where he's from its not racist, but the direct translation is a nigger which pretty obviously is.

Calling an Asian player a Chink would be fairly well known as a racist term. But Gypsy isn't like calling someone a Dirty Jew, Terrorist, Towelhead etc. Unless you're familiar with Europe, you could plead ignorance to its racial connections. I don't actually believe Bouzanis didn't know, but it's plausible, which opens the door for education, 1 game and putting up with little shits for a few training sessions to wise up. If he called Berisha a Nazi etc, different story!

These things come down to the reasonable person test and already other posters here weren't aware Gypsy is a racist term. Bouzanis' background says he should know, but maybe he doesn't??? The world can be grey mate.

Mate, you keep giving me ideas. Thanks! 

[KSK_47]

12 minutes ago, Habitual said:

 

Calling an Asian player a Chink would be fairly well known as a racist term. But Gypsy isn't like calling someone a Dirty Jew, Terrorist, Towelhead etc. Unless you're familiar with Europe, you could plead ignorance to its racial connections. I don't actually believe Bouzanis didn't know, but it's plausible, which opens the door for education, 1 game and putting up with little shits for a few training sessions to wise up. If he called Berisha a Nazi etc, different story!

But thats my point. Just because he (and seemingly a lot of other city supporters) dont understand how offensive it really is, doesnt make it OK for a professional sportsperson to loudly shout it at someone during a game. 

To someone who understands the severity of the word it is just as bad as someone calling someone a "chink" or a "towelhead". In another country these words probably dont hold as much weight as they do here but that doesnt mean it would be OK to openly yell "chink" at someone in that country. 

I do agree that it is a good opportunity for education and an apology, 1 game and a bit of community work is probably fair

Edited February 5, 2017 by KSK_47

[Deeming]

53 minutes ago, Mr MO said:

Is GYPSY a swear word?

No. Because offensively swearing at a player is totally legit and allowed. Using offensive racial words is not okay because SJW standards. I have no problem sanctioning for racist words as long as you sanction for all offensive words.

Edited February 5, 2017 by Deeming

[belaguttman]

41 minutes ago, Habitual said:

You can't be serious? if the racial term does not apply to Berisha, how is it racial vilification against that player? 

If Bouzanis is ignorant to the offensive nature of the term Gypsy, then I think this is completely overblown. Education, a club imposed 1 game and some kiddie clinics and sorted.

If he called someone the names you mentioned or called FBK a terrorist, then throw the book at him! Storm in a teacup.

(BTW, I'm still one of the few people that believe Suarez was stitched up in what he said to Evra, due Suarez' background and meaning of the word not being taken into consideration!)

Fixed

I am serious. The term 'gypsy' is being used in a derogatory sense. If he'd called Berisha a crybaby or a cheat it would have been appropriate.

[MattN]

If his family actually are gypsies then would it ever be appropriate?

[belaguttman]

22 minutes ago, Habitual said:

Come on mate, don't be silly.

Being English we use the term all the time. Similar to pikeys etc. To us, its more saying someone is lower class or poor. Hardly a hanging offence. Bouzanis could've been referring to him as a gypsy for any of a number of plausible reasons. He might not understand it's a racist term. Like I said, same with Suarez and the Negarito comment. Where he's from its not racist, but the direct translation is a nigger which pretty obviously is.

Calling an Asian player a Chink would be fairly well known as a racist term. But Gypsy isn't like calling someone a Dirty Jew, Terrorist, Towelhead etc. Unless you're familiar with Europe, you could plead ignorance to its racial connections. I don't actually believe Bouzanis didn't know, but it's plausible, which opens the door for education, 1 game and putting up with little shits for a few training sessions to wise up. If he called Berisha a Nazi etc, different story!

These things come down to the reasonable person test and already other posters here weren't aware Gypsy is a racist term. Bouzanis' background says he should know, but maybe he doesn't??? The world can be grey mate.

That's the meaning of the term 'casual racism'. An example would be to call someone who was careful with money a jew, you may mean no offence but it labels identifiable groups of people with stereotyped characteristics.

Just now, MattN said:

If his family actually are gypsies then would it ever be appropriate?

Of course, then he would be a gypsy. He actually grew up in Germany although he was Albanian by birth. Gypsys of course have been persecuted in Albania for being gypsys just as they have in every other European country

[jw1739]

"Gypsy" in itself is not a racist word at all. There are businesses in Melbourne that use it in their business name. It's when it is used perjoratively that it becomes offensive, and the video clearly shows that it was being used perjoratively. That is why Bouzanis' remark(s) should be addressed by Dean himself, and by the club who employs him. Saying that some one didn't understand the seriousness of what he was doing is a fairly standard defence.

IMO this won't do his career with CFG any good at all.

I just hope that the club is paying as much attention to the football we are playing and management issues within the club as they are to this incident.

Edited February 5, 2017 by jw1739

[samardzija]

Had the pleasure of meeting Dean Bouzanis and Paul Retre on a night out, I can confirm that he is a flog. Referred to himself as the best keeper in the A League without batting an eyelid, after I questioned him, young Paulo said "mate look who he's keeping out of the team". He also called jvs a great manager, told me to have some faith and that we would improve (this was the night of the Christmas derby). We've gotten worse and worse with the "best keeper in the a league" arguably leading the way.

For someone who's played around 20 senior games in his career, his opinion of himself is way to high.

I've met a reasonable amount of city players out and about over the years and can genuinely say Dean Bouzanis is the only one who came across as a genuine flog.

 

Please fuck off.

[n i k o]

2 hours ago, SF33 said:

Agreed...talk about your small wins. You lost the game, mate and now you're a good chance to be facing a lengthy stint on the sidelines. Hope it was worth it. And for those people saying good on him and what a legend...let's see how he responds if this is made public. He'll be humiliated and so he should be.

Could the final twenty minutes of that game have been any worse? Leaving aside the goals, how many of our players managed to get themselves suspended for next week with their careless/undisciplined actions? Cahill, Fornaroli, Bouzanis (probably), Fernando...am I missing anyone? 

 

Yeh Bouzanis is an idiot for saying those things when completely unprovoked. 

[rass]

2 minutes ago, n i k o said:

Yeh Bouzanis is an idiot for saying those things when completely unprovoked. 

Exactly. Wasn't like berisha threw the ball at his head or anything....

Oh wait...

[SF33]

1 hour ago, Habitual said:

These things come down to the reasonable person test and already other posters here weren't aware Gypsy is a racist term. Bouzanis' background says he should know, but maybe he doesn't??? The world can be grey mate.

I don't think it's reasonable to accept that he just happened to pick that term to use against Berisha and that it's all a big coincidence/misunderstanding. Just on this forum, I've seen that term used to describe Berisha more than anything else and I've never seen it used to describe another player. Funny, that.

Sorry, but I think Bouzanis was well aware of what he was saying, I think he meant to say it and now I think he and the club are in damage control, because they can ill-afford to have another player on the sidelines given the current circumstances..

 

[Heart of Melbourne]

A lot of Bouzanis haters here. He made a match winning save. Fucken Valkanis should just resign. Lost the game last night. Cahill should have come on around the 75 minute. The longer this went on you could sense Victory winning it and I happened. 

[SF33]

10 minutes ago, n i k o said:

Yeh Bouzanis is an idiot for saying those things when completely unprovoked. 

He and the club are unreservedly apologising and trying to minimise the damage as we speak. What does that tell you?

To me, it says that they both know that the comments are completely indefensible, they know that he's screwed and they're throwing themselves at the mercy of Berisha, Victory and the FFA to see how big a deal gets made of it. 

1 minute ago, Heart of Melbourne said:

A lot of Bouzanis haters here. He made a match winning save. Fucken Valkanis should just resign. Lost the game last night. Cahill should have come on around the 75 minute. The longer this went on you could sense Victory winning it and I happened. 

Match winning save, you say? Yay! Here I was thinking that we lost.

I don't think there can be any dispute that he had a good game and made a great save. That doesn't mean he gets the green light to do stupid shit like this.

[n i k o]

14 minutes ago, SF33 said:

He and the club are unreservedly apologising and trying to minimise the damage as we speak. What does that tell you?

To me, it says that they both know that the comments are completely indefensible, they know that he's screwed and they're throwing themselves at the mercy of Berisha, Victory and the FFA to see how big a deal gets made of it. 

Match winning save, you say? Yay! Here I was thinking that we lost.

I don't think there can be any dispute that he had a good game and made a great save. That doesn't mean he gets the green light to do stupid shit like this.

I don't condone what he said. My point is Berisha didn't get caught but in all likeliness said some pretty terrible things as well.

[jw1739]

Wouldn't it be a relief to be able to sit here and regularly discuss good ball movement, gritty defence, good crosses into the box, a good win, taking our chances, some great goals, how well everyone played, good selections, intelligent use of the bench, great scenes at the end, good after-match interviews...FMD the club is really the pits at the moment.

[Ray]

The interpretations of some of the keyboard warriors on here who don't understand the law, common decency and the reason why FFA have rules against insulting people is misguided.

It doesn't matter what YOU or the person saying the comments are interpreted, it is the interpretation of and the offence from the comments made to the person receiving them.

The controversial Section 18c of the Anti-Discrimination Act says it all. It is contentious, but this is the law currently in our democracy. Read it and you may find why it is such an issue. 

Having been on the end of racial slurs 50 years ago as a wog, dago and stinking New Australian, I thought we might have just come a little bit further, but perhaps we haven't.

 

RACIAL DISCRIMINATION ACT 1975 - SECT 18C

Offensive behaviour because of race, colour or national or ethnic origin

             (1)  It is unlawful for a person to do an act, otherwise than in private, if: 

                     (a)  the act is reasonably likely, in all the circumstances, to offend, insult, humiliate or intimidate another person or a group of people; and 

                     (b)  the act is done because of the race, colour or national or ethnic origin of the other person or of some or all of the people in the group. 

Note:          Subsection (1) makes certain acts unlawful. Section 46P of the Australian Human Rights Commission Act 1986 allows people to make complaints to the Australian Human Rights Commission about unlawful acts. However, an unlawful act is not necessarily a criminal offence. Section 26 says that this Act does not make it an offence to do an act that is unlawful because of this Part, unless Part IV expressly says that the act is an offence. 

             (2)  For the purposes of subsection (1), an act is taken not to be done in private if it: 

                     (a)  causes words, sounds, images or writing to be communicated to the public; or 

                     (b)  is done in a public place; or 

                     (c)  is done in the sight or hearing of people who are in a public place.

             (3)  In this section: 

"public place " includes any place to which the public have access as of right or by invitation, whether express or implied and whether or not a charge is made for admission to the place.

[HeartFc]

52 minutes ago, Heart of Melbourne said:

He made a match winning save. 

We lost.

[bellydrum]

Anyone else find his antics over the top and annoying?

Sure stick it to Berisha when he is being a flog (Gypsy jibe aside), but this bloke is constantly running out of his box to involve himself in discussions with the ref and scuffles between players. This is almost every match.

Shutup, stay in your box, and do your job. 

[Tesla]

Looks like a win win situation to me, Berisha gets called a gypsy and we don't have to give away free goals for 5 weeks.

[playmaker]

6 minutes ago, bellydrum said:

Anyone else find his antics over the top and annoying?

Sure stick it to Berisha when he is being a flog (Gypsy jibe aside), but this bloke is constantly running out of his box to involve himself in discussions with the ref and scuffles between players. This is almost every match.

Shutup, stay in your box, and do your job. 

Wanna be tough man. I remember when that was cool..... when I was 14 years old.

.

[HeartFc]

PC police coming out for "gypsy", give me fucking break. Grow some fucking balls.

[mitzo_1805]

One thing you can't take away from Deano is his bloody passion! I only wish some other passengers out there had half the passion he shows each game!

[kingofhearts]

Why didn't we just keep tando ffs.

[MattN]

Weren't we singing ooooh Besart's a gypsy when the players were warming up near us? Lol could have put it in his head.

Also if he gets done for racism, do we also for saying it if anyone of any authority heard?

[fensaddler]

I've always been uncomfortable with gypsy being used as a term of abuse.  It is, as others have said, using a racial term to abuse and is hence racial vilification.  Apart from anything else it's against the law.

I grew up in the UK where gypsies, travellers, Roma are still subject to gross racism, and where such racism is still apparently socially acceptable.  It was only fifteen years ago I was working in one part of the country where there was a big gypsy community and public officials including police officers still referred to them openly as pikeys, a derogatory term.

I can understand ignorance of these issues in Australia, though not from anyone with any recent family history anywhere in Europe, but ignorance is no excuse, just an opportunity to learn.

The club statement is taking the right line, but Bouzanis is in trouble, and rightly so.  This will follow him for whatever remains of his career.

[Tesla]

The funny thing is that Berisha actually looks nothing like a gypsy. 

[belaguttman]

Its not so surprising, most gypsys aren't Albanian and most Albanians aren't gypsy

[rass]

I'm considering calling up the network that runs that 'Gypsy Weddings ' tv series and complain of the offense it has caused me...

[Thrillhouse]

so if a fan was to call the diving prick a gypsy along the tunnel would they cop a stadium ban then?
harden the fuck up, the prick deserves a 1 way flight to syria along with the ref 

Edited February 5, 2017 by Thrillhouse

[jw1739]

It's making the headlines now. http://www.abc.net.au/news/2017-02-05/dean-bouzanis-sorry-besart-berisha-melbourne-derby-gypsy-slur/8242666

CFG won't want this type of publicity. See also Novillo.

[haz]

Dean Bouzanis apologises for Besart Berisha 'gypsy' slur in Melbourne derby

 

https://www.theguardian.com/football/2017/feb/05/dean-bouzanis-apologises-for-besart-berisha-gypsy-slur-in-melbourne-derby

 

Melbourne City goalkeeper Dean Bouzanis will undergo an education course after abusing Melbourne Victory striker Besart Berisha in Saturday night’s A-League derby.

The keeper has apologised to the Albanian for calling him a “fucking gypsy” in heated scenes at Etihad Stadium. The pair clashed all night, with Bouzanis saving Berisha’s penalty with the scores locked at 0-0.

Besart Berisha propelled Melbourne Victory to an A-League derby comeback for the ages, coming from a goal behind to defeat Melbourne City 2-1 in the dying stages

After fluffing his lines, Berisha recovered to score an equaliser. City protested vigorously at Berisha’s role in Victory’s winner; the season’s leading scorer was in an off-side position when Manny Muscat scored the decisive own-goal.

After a conference between referees, the goal stood and Berisha reacted by celebrating in Bouzanis’ face. The custodian’s reaction was unsavoury and on Sunday morning, the club moved to calm the waters with an apology.

“Bouzanis admitted making the remarks out of ignorance; however, has since understood the seriousness of his comments,” a club statement read. “Once informed of the gravity of his actions, Bouzanis committed to redressing the offence at the earliest opportunity.

“He will issue a formal and personal apology to the player and begin an appropriate educational course to rectify the gaps in his understanding. The club regrets the incident and any offence caused.”

Berisha was close to tears after the final whistle and needed consoling by coach Kevin Muscat. “When the opposition comes and tells you things, it’s not easy,” Berisha told Fox Sports. “I’m strong and will always prove people wrong. I’m really happy I stayed strong and scored the goal for my team.”

FFA will investigate the incident – along with Tim Cahill’s red card – on Monday in the course of its normal match review panel deliberations. Cahill was dismissed by referee Chris Beath for dissent as he prepared to come on as a late substitute at Etihad Stadium

[jw1739]

37 minutes ago, Thrillhouse said:

so if a fan was to call the diving prick a gypsy along the tunnel would they cop a stadium ban then?
harden the fuck up, the prick deserves a 1 way flight to syria along with the ref 

Possibly yes, if they could be identified. Adam Goodes incident comes to mind. "Berisha had to be consoled by Muscat" is the bit that gets me. The latter should have been banned for life for what he did to Adrian Zahra. Nowadays it appears that words are as hurtful as sticks and stones.

All very sad and should never have happened. What a season.

[playmaker]

If Bouzanis was ignorant to the meaning of what he said he wouldn't have said it. What a load of crap. Sack the racist prick.

[jw1739]

4 minutes ago, playmaker said:

If Bouzanis was ignorant to the meaning of what he said he wouldn't have said it. What a load of crap. Sack the racist prick.

IMO you'll find he will be transferred to another club in due course. CFG won't keep him after this. I did hear that there has been some overseas interest in him shortly before we re-signed him.

[fensaddler]

16 minutes ago, jw1739 said:

IMO you'll find he will be transferred to another club in due course. CFG won't keep him after this. I did hear that there has been some overseas interest in him shortly before we re-signed him.

I did wonder how much life there would be in his new contract after this.

34 minutes ago, jw1739 said:

Possibly yes, if they could be identified. Adam Goodes incident comes to mind. "Berisha had to be consoled by Muscat" is the bit that gets me. The latter should have been banned for life for what he did to Adrian Zahra. Nowadays it appears that words are as hurtful as sticks and stones.

All very sad and should never have happened. What a season.

Indeed, and a few of our fans, and of other clubs, need to take note of this.  Adam Goodes is exactly the right comparison.

But Berisha needing consoling? Cry me a river, he's always in everyone else's face...

[belaguttman]

1 hour ago, Thrillhouse said:

so if a fan was to call the diving prick a gypsy along the tunnel would they cop a stadium ban then?
harden the fuck up, the prick deserves a 1 way flight to syria along with the ref 

Unlikely, but of course they should. It depends of whether it is heard by any of the refs, fights in the tunnel can be reported and carded. The issue though is now that it is out in the public sphere it can't be ignored

[neio]

I'd be disappointed if Bouzanis was shown the door because of this

[HeartOfCity]

Ok can someone fill me in as to why this is a racist slur? Im just unsure what it means and why it might offend besart so much?

[belaguttman]

The Roma (commonly known as gypsys) are the most oppressed and marginalised group of Europeans. Often the victims of pogroms and physical abuse in the past (they were one of the groups targeted in the 'Final Solution') the term gypsy used in this context refers to someone unsavoury and untrustworthy. It would be similar to calling a black American a nigger.