Embee Posted July 19, 2017 Report Share Posted July 19, 2017 2 hours ago, bt50 said: This forum is fucking aids sometimes. Look, id rather keep him, buts lets not pretend hes played anywhere near what we expected him to be when we bought him. Arguably would have been the weakest player in our best XI assuming our visas are decent. The major bonus is he frees up around 300k in the cap of the initial reports are true. Manny and Pierias are both capable at fb, particularly if we sign a quality visa cb to partner Jakobsen. Ultimately a loss, but only a modest one. Spot on. Was pretty much a bog average A-League right back the last two seasons which is disappointing considering his pedigree and the expectations many on here had for him when he joined. Losing him isn't ideal but he's not worth the coin he was on so it doesn't bother me too much. I also feel like Muscat and Pierias can hold down the spot between them if the rest of the back four is solid enough, but that's definitely contingent on us getting another solid VISA CB. If there's enough money to do that and get a good replacement for Ivan then that'd be great, but the CB spot should be a priority. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bt50 Posted July 19, 2017 Report Share Posted July 19, 2017 2 minutes ago, Embee said: Spot on. Was pretty much a bog average A-League right back the last two seasons which is disappointing considering his pedigree and the expectations many on here had for him when he joined. Losing him isn't ideal but he's not worth the coin he was on so it doesn't bother me too much. I also feel like Muscat and Pierias can hold down the spot between them if the rest of the back four is solid enough, but that's definitely contingent on us getting another solid VISA CB. If there's enough money to do that and get a good replacement for Ivan then that'd be great, but the CB spot should be a priority. Yeh pretty much. And don’t get me wrong, I was as excited as anyone about his signing. But at the end of the day on performance after two seasons he’s been a 5.5 or 6/10 RB for us rather than the 8/10 we expected and/or his wage suggested. Manny or Pierias might well be a 5/10, but that’s a .5 I’d be willing to give up if it can get a better return on Visa CB. Just now, belaguttman said: Like many of our players, he came to us injured and remained blighted by injury during his entire time with us. We never saw him at his best but this was his first uninterrupted pre-season for us. He was also one of the few Melbourne raised players in the team Sure he had injury issues as a mitigating factor, but people can't have their cake and eat it too. Same applies for Koren, Hughes and stacks of other players. It's not like he didnt have extended runs in the side in both seasons either. Don't care about the Melbourne player thing. It's nice, but it ultimately means jackshit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
belaguttman Posted July 19, 2017 Report Share Posted July 19, 2017 Like many of our players, he came to us injured and remained blighted by injury during his entire time with us. We never saw him at his best but this was his first uninterrupted pre-season for us. He was also one of the few Melbourne raised players in the team Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
belaguttman Posted July 19, 2017 Report Share Posted July 19, 2017 6 minutes ago, bt50 said: Yeh pretty much. And don’t get me wrong, I was as excited as anyone about his signing. But at the end of the day on performance after two seasons he’s been a 5.5 or 6/10 RB for us rather than the 8/10 we expected and/or his wage suggested. Manny or Pierias might well be a 5/10, but that’s a .5 I’d be willing to give up if it can get a better return on Visa CB. Sure he had injury issues as a mitigating factor, but people can't have their cake and eat it too. Same applies for Koren, Hughes and stacks of other players. It's not like he didnt have extended runs in the side in both seasons either. Don't care about the Melbourne player thing. It's nice, but it ultimately means jackshit. Sure, his contribution was way below what we all expected and I'm sure way below what he expected. It's just a shame that he's gone as soon as he appears to be injury free. FB positions are important given the way that we say that we'd like to play and we've never had a strong defensive line - partly as the trade-off for tactical advantages up front but also the wrong players for our style Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Embee Posted July 19, 2017 Report Share Posted July 19, 2017 (edited) 6 minutes ago, belaguttman said: Sure, his contribution was way below what we all expected and I'm sure way below what he expected. It's just a shame that he's gone as soon as he appears to be injury free. FB positions are important given the way that we say that we'd like to play and we've never had a strong defensive line - partly as the trade-off for tactical advantages up front but also the wrong players for our style https://www.transfermarkt.com/ivan-franjic/leistungsdatendetails/spieler/48424 He's struggled to ever play out a full season so the injury free excuse doesn't sit well with me at all, he was plenty better during his last spell in the league whilst churning out similar appearance totals, not to mention he had a solid run of games last season and never really improved. I struggle to believe this season would be any different. Edited July 19, 2017 by Embee 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
belaguttman Posted July 19, 2017 Report Share Posted July 19, 2017 You may be right and I'm not necessarily disagreeing with you either. It all depends on who we replace him with and how we can use his salary cap space to improve the balance of the team but its hard to see us winning anything without a strong defence 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
japiedog Posted July 19, 2017 Report Share Posted July 19, 2017 1 minute ago, belaguttman said: You may be right and I'm not necessarily disagreeing with you either. It all depends on who we replace him with and how we can use his salary cap space to improve the balance of the team but its hard to see us winning anything without a strong defence Defence, Defence, Defence the starting point for winning titles 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Embee Posted July 19, 2017 Report Share Posted July 19, 2017 14 minutes ago, belaguttman said: You may be right and I'm not necessarily disagreeing with you either. It all depends on who we replace him with and how we can use his salary cap space to improve the balance of the team but its hard to see us winning anything without a strong defence I just don't really feel he's that hard to replace to be honest, as @bt50 said earlier in the thread, Muscat/Pierias are only slightly below the level he produced for us and if do indeed balance the team out more in other areas (such as CB) then I don't think it'll be an issue. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nate Posted July 19, 2017 Report Share Posted July 19, 2017 Here are the starting fullbacks for the last 5 A-League season champions. You can make your own judgements but looking at this list, I think fullbacks are pretty important to a winning team. Don't get me wrong, I think Muscat is capable and Pierias can hopefully develop but are they of the same calibre of any of the below players? I have my doubts. 2016/17 Sydney FC: Zullo & Grant 2015/16 Adelaide United: Elrich/Goodwin & Marrone 2014/15 Melbourne Victory: Geria & Georgievski 2013/14 Brisbane Roar: Franjic/Hingert & Stefanutto 2012/13 Central Coast: Bojic/Rose (when he was actually good lol) 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
japiedog Posted July 19, 2017 Report Share Posted July 19, 2017 as alluded to by others, he came with good pedigree, I mean, what a player he was at Brisbane BUT, he rarely, if ever produced that form for us, so yes a loss for us if he was producing big performances. Good luck to him in Korea, I hope that it turns out better for him there than it did for BIG ERIK Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Embee Posted July 19, 2017 Report Share Posted July 19, 2017 1 minute ago, Nate said: Here are the starting fullbacks for the last 5 A-League season champions. You can make your own judgements but looking at this list, I think fullbacks are pretty important to a winning team. Don't get me wrong, I think Muscat is capable and Pierias can hopefully develop but are they of the same calibre of any of the below players? I have my doubts. 2016/17 Sydney FC: Zullo & Grant 2015/16 Adelaide United: Elrich/Goodwin & Marrone 2014/15 Melbourne Victory: Geria & Georgievski 2013/14 Brisbane Roar: Franjic/Hingert & Stefanutto 2012/13 Central Coast: Bojic/Rose (when he was actually good lol) For a start I'd argue Jamieson is as good as any fullback on that list bar maybe Grant. Geria was pretty poor IMO last season and the Tards made the GF and really should have won if Muscat wasn't a fucking moron (fortunately he is). Georgevski and Marrone are decent enough but not particularly remarkable in my opinion either. What all those teams had for sure though were very solid centre-half pairings, 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rass Posted July 19, 2017 Report Share Posted July 19, 2017 Exactly as said above especially when playing 4 at the back. Pretty simple for mine where if you have 2 solid and experienced CBs and a good supporting winger ahead, then it would be a great scenario to bring in a young fullback with upside. I'd definitely give Pierias some game time as he would have a solid and stable environment to learn. Not a yoof thing, just makes sense to me. However if we don't have that stability with the CBs and winger, then i feel it would be near suicide to play a young kid. Get those CBs right and it could actually work out well for us because unfortunately, i couldn't see Franjic's body holding up for a full season. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jw1739 Posted July 19, 2017 Report Share Posted July 19, 2017 41 minutes ago, Embee said: https://www.transfermarkt.com/ivan-franjic/leistungsdatendetails/spieler/48424 He's struggled to ever play out a full season so the injury free excuse doesn't sit well with me at all, he was plenty better during his last spell in the league whilst churning out similar appearance totals, not to mention he had a solid run of games last season and never really improved. I struggle to believe this season would be any different. Agreed. TBH I think the mistake we made was to sign him for three seasons, and what that has done is to cause a hiccup in compiling the squad for the season at a relatively late stage. Although for all we know his departure may be a blessing in disguise because of the impact it has on what's left of the cap. I haven't seen Pierias, but I don't think Muscat is far enough behind Franjic - that's if he is - to make a significant difference to the coming season if he's the player who steps up. So player-wise I don't think it's a big issue, but it does raise a question or two in my mind about our recruiting strategies. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jovan Posted July 19, 2017 Report Share Posted July 19, 2017 Muscat at fullback? That has to be the biggest croc I've read in a long time. And that is bang in the middle of the coldest winter longest pre season known to man. At CB he is barely A League standard and at DM he is marginally better but at full back. Come on everyone needs to give their heads a good shake. Franjic has gone he needs to be replaced by at minimum an average rb not Muscat. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Embee Posted July 19, 2017 Report Share Posted July 19, 2017 6 minutes ago, jw1739 said: Agreed. TBH I think the mistake we made was to sign him for three seasons, and what that has done is to cause a hiccup in compiling the squad for the season at a relatively late stage. Although for all we know his departure may be a blessing in disguise because of the impact it has on what's left of the cap. I haven't seen Pierias, but I don't think Muscat is far enough behind Franjic - that's if he is - to make a significant difference to the coming season if he's the player who steps up. So player-wise I don't think it's a big issue, but it does raise a question or two in my mind about our recruiting strategies. I dunno, I think it made sense at the time, the guy had been part of the best team in A-League history and was a nailed down Soccerroo until he got hurt. It's easy to look down on the move in hindsight but the reason he's been so disappointing is because of how well most of us thought the move would work in the first place I think. Regardless, we seem to be able to move on guys we don't want to to keep easily enough regardless of contract lengths so I'm not too fussed about the deal we gave him at the time. 3 minutes ago, Jovan said: Muscat at fullback? That has to be the biggest croc I've read in a long time. And that is bang in the middle of the coldest winter longest pre season known to man. At CB he is barely A League standard and at DM he is marginally better but at full back. Come on everyone needs to give their heads a good shake. Franjic has gone he needs to be replaced by at minimum an average rb not Muscat. Muscats best football at Wellington was at fullback IMO. Agree that he shouldn't be played as CB under any circumstance though. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
japiedog Posted July 19, 2017 Report Share Posted July 19, 2017 9 minutes ago, Jovan said: Muscat at fullback? That has to be the biggest croc I've read in a long time. And that is bang in the middle of the coldest winter longest pre season known to man. At CB he is barely A League standard and at DM he is marginally better but at full back. Come on everyone needs to give their heads a good shake. thems fighting Jovan the Maltese Mafia with have your knackers for that Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jovan Posted July 19, 2017 Report Share Posted July 19, 2017 5 minutes ago, japiedog said: thems fighting Jovan the Maltese Mafia with have your knackers for that Actually I just reread my post and I need to edit the DM point. I need a little nap. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GreenSeater Posted July 19, 2017 Report Share Posted July 19, 2017 22 minutes ago, jw1739 said: Agreed. TBH I think the mistake we made was to sign him for three seasons, and what that has done is to cause a hiccup in compiling the squad for the season at a relatively late stage. Although for all we know his departure may be a blessing in disguise because of the impact it has on what's left of the cap. I haven't seen Pierias, but I don't think Muscat is far enough behind Franjic - that's if he is - to make a significant difference to the coming season if he's the player who steps up. So player-wise I don't think it's a big issue, but it does raise a question or two in my mind about our recruiting strategies. Several people have been saying this, but for all we know, CFG may have known that this was going to happen for some time and may well have prepared for it by having a replacement lined up. I guess we'll have to wait and see. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nate Posted July 19, 2017 Report Share Posted July 19, 2017 1 hour ago, Embee said: For a start I'd argue Jamieson is as good as any fullback on that list bar maybe Grant. Geria was pretty poor IMO last season and the Tards made the GF and really should have won if Muscat wasn't a fucking moron (fortunately he is). Georgevski and Marrone are decent enough but not particularly remarkable in my opinion either. What all those teams had for sure though were very solid centre-half pairings, Jamieson is great, no arguments there. But you're right, it just means the signing of an experienced visa player to partner Jakobsen at centre-half is even more crucial now since starting Malik/La Rocca won't cut it imo. (unless of course, we try and score 5 every game and disregard defence as we've done so often in the past) 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
loriente Posted July 19, 2017 Report Share Posted July 19, 2017 mutually agreed to terminate his contract? surely we could've got a transfer fee ffs. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
InMyHeart Posted July 19, 2017 Report Share Posted July 19, 2017 27 minutes ago, loriente said: mutually agreed to terminate his contract? surely we could've got a transfer fee ffs. This! Fkn we are a joke Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kingofhearts Posted July 19, 2017 Author Report Share Posted July 19, 2017 The fact their is no transfer fees in this league is honestly really helping the league move forward 😑 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bt50 Posted July 19, 2017 Report Share Posted July 19, 2017 Does it really matter if we got a fee for him? If the club/CFG were happy to let him go for nought then i dont see what it is to anyone else? 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jw1739 Posted July 19, 2017 Report Share Posted July 19, 2017 6 minutes ago, bt50 said: Does it really matter if we got a fee for him? If the club/CFG were happy to let him go for nought then i dont see what it is to anyone else? IMO it indicates that we were happy to take the opportunity to remove him from our list. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bt50 Posted July 19, 2017 Report Share Posted July 19, 2017 4 minutes ago, jw1739 said: IMO it indicates that we were happy to take the opportunity to remove him from our list. Pretty much although that probably sounds a bit harsh. I think we'd have been happy to take the very minor hit in playing stocks in receipt of the salary cap that it freed up. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
haz Posted July 19, 2017 Report Share Posted July 19, 2017 3 minutes ago, bt50 said: Pretty much although that probably sounds a bit harsh. I think we'd have been happy to take the very minor hit in playing stocks in receipt of the salary cap that it freed up. Yep. Now room for an even better Visa CB. We just upgraded from Kolo to Ramos Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jw1739 Posted July 19, 2017 Report Share Posted July 19, 2017 8 minutes ago, bt50 said: Pretty much although that probably sounds a bit harsh. I think we'd have been happy to take the very minor hit in playing stocks in receipt of the salary cap that it freed up. Wasn't meant to be harsh. I agree I could have said it a little better. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr MO Posted July 19, 2017 Report Share Posted July 19, 2017 (edited) 40 minutes ago, haz said: Yep. Now room for an even better Visa CB. We just upgraded from Kolo to Ramos No, now we have room for TC. I would be very surprised if we get another CB to be honest. Jako, La Rocca, Tonyik are all CB's with Muscat, Malik and Kilkenny as stand ins - that is 6 players for 2 positions not looking at the quality of these players most coaches would deem that sufficient if you can only have a squad of 23 players. Edited July 19, 2017 by Mr MO 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
neio Posted July 19, 2017 Report Share Posted July 19, 2017 Although overall he will be remembered as largely disappointing, it's worth remembering the heart issues he had only 12 months ago All the best Ivan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Embee Posted July 19, 2017 Report Share Posted July 19, 2017 If the club really wanted to keep him they'd have held on for a transfer fee, seems to me they were happy to free up his wages. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GreenSeater Posted July 19, 2017 Report Share Posted July 19, 2017 Will be remembered as a part of our FFA Cup winning squad and that absolute worldie of a goal last season against the Wanderers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
n i k o Posted July 19, 2017 Report Share Posted July 19, 2017 (edited) 2 hours ago, bt50 said: Does it really matter if we got a fee for him? If the club/CFG were happy to let him go for nought then i dont see what it is to anyone else? For the love of god bt50 would you stop making so much damn bloody sense Edited July 19, 2017 by n i k o 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jw1739 Posted July 19, 2017 Report Share Posted July 19, 2017 1 hour ago, Mr MO said: No, now we have room for TC. I would be very surprised if we get another CB to be honest. Jako, La Rocca, Tonyik are all CB's with Muscat, Malik and Kilkenny as stand ins - that is 6 players for 2 positions not looking at the quality of these players most coaches would deem that sufficient if you can only have a squad of 23 players. We need more than "room for TC." At the moment we have only 15 players signed to the seniors. Minimum is 20. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
haz Posted July 19, 2017 Report Share Posted July 19, 2017 1 hour ago, Mr MO said: No, now we have room for TC. I would be very surprised if we get another CB to be honest. Jako, La Rocca, Tonyik are all CB's with Muscat, Malik and Kilkenny as stand ins - that is 6 players for 2 positions not looking at the quality of these players most coaches would deem that sufficient if you can only have a squad of 23 players. Your quite a pessimist arnt you @Mr MO? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
playmaker Posted July 19, 2017 Report Share Posted July 19, 2017 So ultimately he wasn't pulling his weight on the training pitch and Wazza showed him the door. Wonder who will be next. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr MO Posted July 19, 2017 Report Share Posted July 19, 2017 (edited) 55 minutes ago, haz said: Your quite a pessimist arnt you @Mr MO? Yup only on the TC situation. Plus I know how good & balanced squads are being put together and how much of an impact the salary cap has. Edited July 19, 2017 by Mr MO Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jimmy Posted July 19, 2017 Report Share Posted July 19, 2017 @Embee and I were talking to Wazza and he seemed quite pleased to have the new chunk of cap space. Seems like he's felt a bit constrained. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shahanga Posted July 19, 2017 Report Share Posted July 19, 2017 9 hours ago, GreenSeater said: Will be remembered as a part of our FFA Cup winning squad and that absolute worldie of a goal last season against the Wanderers. Umm in the cup squad? Well yeah. He set up the winner! Let's remember him for that! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GreenSeater Posted July 20, 2017 Report Share Posted July 20, 2017 6 hours ago, Shahanga said: Umm in the cup squad? Well yeah. He set up the winner! Let's remember him for that! I wrote squad, but I meant in the starting XI, I'm just a bit thick Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
[LIBBA] Posted July 20, 2017 Report Share Posted July 20, 2017 On 7/19/2017 at 11:34 AM, Jovan said: Muscat at fullback? That has to be the biggest croc I've read in a long time. And that is bang in the middle of the coldest winter longest pre season known to man. At CB he is barely A League standard and at DM he is marginally better but at full back. Come on everyone needs to give their heads a good shake. Franjic has gone he needs to be replaced by at minimum an average rb not Muscat. On 7/19/2017 at 11:45 AM, japiedog said: thems fighting Jovan the Maltese Mafia with have your knackers for that Needless to say we aren't very happy 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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