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jw1739

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jw1739    7,076

Murf. Of the 24 names listed as our senior squad...Miller was an injury replacement and seems to have left or finishes tomorrow, Villa was a guest player, and Kalmar has departed. Leaving us with 21 players in the squad. To that 21 we must add Kennedy, giving a final number of 22. But it's not that simple, because IIRC two of those are in the "+3" under-23 players we are allowed under the "23+3" rule. Both marquee places are filled.

 

By my calculations we are sitting on the minimum number of players we must have in the 23-man squad, i.e. 20. So again by my calculations we have 3 places available, one of those being a visa place.

 

IIRC again, you are correct in that we did have some space remaining under the salary cap before we released Kalmar. I concur with your view that we should try to recruit well in January with one eye on the future and not just on the remainder of this season.

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tigerou812    119

 

Wish they would have a look at the NPL teams. Surely there are good players playing. Hate it how the A league teams seem to keep using the same crap players that just move from team to team, or some hack visa player. Their are good players in the NPL just need to be given a go.

Because it's more of a risk than 'the same crap players that just move from team to team'. At least with those players you know you'll get a solid backup player for the same minimum salary, whereas some guy from the NPL could be better, but they also could be a complete dud leaving you without backup and no other club will take the player off your hands before the contract expires.

 

Well it's worked great so far. Look at some of the duds we have picked up from other clubs. I would hardly call them solid. That's what scouts are for. Supposedly we are meant to have some now. So we just pick up a player that is crap for some other team but he has been in the system so he is solid. We have a long off season surely someone from the club can get to NPL games to watch some players who are actually playing than getting some bloke that doesn't make the team. Anyway I don't pick the team or recruit players so it's not my problem, would just like to see some new local talent than just trying to keep polishing the same turds hoping that they will become a diamond. 

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Wish they would have a look at the NPL teams. Surely there are good players playing. Hate it how the A league teams seem to keep using the same crap players that just move from team to team, or some hack visa player. Their are good players in the NPL just need to be given a go.

Because it's more of a risk than 'the same crap players that just move from team to team'. At least with those players you know you'll get a solid backup player for the same minimum salary, whereas some guy from the NPL could be better, but they also could be a complete dud leaving you without backup and no other club will take the player off your hands before the contract expires.

Well it's worked great so far. Look at some of the duds we have picked up from other clubs. I would hardly call them solid. That's what scouts are for. Supposedly we are meant to have some now. So we just pick up a player that is crap for some other team but he has been in the system so he is solid. We have a long off season surely someone from the club can get to NPL games to watch some players who are actually playing than getting some bloke that doesn't make the team. Anyway I don't pick the team or recruit players so it's not my problem, would just like to see some new local talent than just trying to keep polishing the same turds hoping that they will become a diamond.

Their was some good players in the Bentleigh Greens squad I saw playing in the FFA Cup, worth a trial possibly.

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malloy    3,146

 

 

Wish they would have a look at the NPL teams. Surely there are good players playing. Hate it how the A league teams seem to keep using the same crap players that just move from team to team, or some hack visa player. Their are good players in the NPL just need to be given a go.

Because it's more of a risk than 'the same crap players that just move from team to team'. At least with those players you know you'll get a solid backup player for the same minimum salary, whereas some guy from the NPL could be better, but they also could be a complete dud leaving you without backup and no other club will take the player off your hands before the contract expires.

 

Well it's worked great so far. Look at some of the duds we have picked up from other clubs. I would hardly call them solid. That's what scouts are for. Supposedly we are meant to have some now. So we just pick up a player that is crap for some other team but he has been in the system so he is solid. We have a long off season surely someone from the club can get to NPL games to watch some players who are actually playing than getting some bloke that doesn't make the team. Anyway I don't pick the team or recruit players so it's not my problem, would just like to see some new local talent than just trying to keep polishing the same turds hoping that they will become a diamond. 

 

 

Further to what Tesla is saying, Kalmar was winning best player awards in the VPL (which is pretty much the NPL now) and look where he sits in terms of the A-League. He is now one of those A-League "scrap" players you are talking about.  The reality is there is a huge gap between the two leagues and just because some one looks alot more capable playing at that level than some of the players in the A-League does not mean they can make the step up.

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jw1739    7,076

 

 

 

Wish they would have a look at the NPL teams. Surely there are good players playing. Hate it how the A league teams seem to keep using the same crap players that just move from team to team, or some hack visa player. Their are good players in the NPL just need to be given a go.

Because it's more of a risk than 'the same crap players that just move from team to team'. At least with those players you know you'll get a solid backup player for the same minimum salary, whereas some guy from the NPL could be better, but they also could be a complete dud leaving you without backup and no other club will take the player off your hands before the contract expires.

 

Well it's worked great so far. Look at some of the duds we have picked up from other clubs. I would hardly call them solid. That's what scouts are for. Supposedly we are meant to have some now. So we just pick up a player that is crap for some other team but he has been in the system so he is solid. We have a long off season surely someone from the club can get to NPL games to watch some players who are actually playing than getting some bloke that doesn't make the team. Anyway I don't pick the team or recruit players so it's not my problem, would just like to see some new local talent than just trying to keep polishing the same turds hoping that they will become a diamond. 

 

 

Further to what Tesla is saying, Kalmar was winning best player awards in the VPL (which is pretty much the NPL now) and look where he sits in terms of the A-League. He is now one of those A-League "scrap" players you are talking about.  The reality is there is a huge gap between the two leagues and just because some one looks alot more capable playing at that level than some of the players in the A-League does not mean they can make the step up.

 

Referring to the VPL matches he'd watched I recall none other than van 't Schip when he first signed Kalmar in Season 1 saying that "...Nicky was always the stand-out player...."

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SF33    615

Murf. Of the 24 names listed as our senior squad...Miller was an injury replacement and seems to have left or finishes tomorrow, Villa was a guest player, and Kalmar has departed. Leaving us with 21 players in the squad. To that 21 we must add Kennedy, giving a final number of 22. But it's not that simple, because IIRC two of those are in the "+3" under-23 players we are allowed under the "23+3" rule. Both marquee places are filled.

 

By my calculations we are sitting on the minimum number of players we must have in the 23-man squad, i.e. 20. So again by my calculations we have 3 places available, one of those being a visa place.

 

IIRC again, you are correct in that we did have some space remaining under the salary cap before we released Kalmar. I concur with your view that we should try to recruit well in January with one eye on the future and not just on the remainder of this season.

 

His name wasn't listed on the team sheet that they tweet out before the youth league games, for what it's worth. So, although it's probably not asking too much for the club to release a 30-word statement to clarify what the situation is exactly, we can put two and two together and deduce that Miller has played his last game for Melbourne City. Although, since he was on a temporary contract, I assume that doesn't provide any relief for our implied budgetary restrictions in the transfer period.

 

https://twitter.com/MelbourneCity/status/551211376169857025

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hyperfuzz    159

 

Murf. Of the 24 names listed as our senior squad...Miller was an injury replacement and seems to have left or finishes tomorrow, Villa was a guest player, and Kalmar has departed. Leaving us with 21 players in the squad. To that 21 we must add Kennedy, giving a final number of 22. But it's not that simple, because IIRC two of those are in the "+3" under-23 players we are allowed under the "23+3" rule. Both marquee places are filled.

 

By my calculations we are sitting on the minimum number of players we must have in the 23-man squad, i.e. 20. So again by my calculations we have 3 places available, one of those being a visa place.

 

IIRC again, you are correct in that we did have some space remaining under the salary cap before we released Kalmar. I concur with your view that we should try to recruit well in January with one eye on the future and not just on the remainder of this season.

 

His name wasn't listed on the team sheet that they tweet out before the youth league games, for what it's worth. So, although it's probably not asking too much for the club to release a 30-word statement to clarify what the situation is exactly, we can put two and two together and deduce that Miller has played his last game for Melbourne City. Although, since he was on a temporary contract, I assume that doesn't provide any relief for our implied budgetary restrictions in the transfer period.

 

https://twitter.com/MelbourneCity/status/551211376169857025

 

 

 

there might be a few dominos to fall before they make the call on Miller

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tigerou812    119

 

 

 

Wish they would have a look at the NPL teams. Surely there are good players playing. Hate it how the A league teams seem to keep using the same crap players that just move from team to team, or some hack visa player. Their are good players in the NPL just need to be given a go.

Because it's more of a risk than 'the same crap players that just move from team to team'. At least with those players you know you'll get a solid backup player for the same minimum salary, whereas some guy from the NPL could be better, but they also could be a complete dud leaving you without backup and no other club will take the player off your hands before the contract expires.

 

Well it's worked great so far. Look at some of the duds we have picked up from other clubs. I would hardly call them solid. That's what scouts are for. Supposedly we are meant to have some now. So we just pick up a player that is crap for some other team but he has been in the system so he is solid. We have a long off season surely someone from the club can get to NPL games to watch some players who are actually playing than getting some bloke that doesn't make the team. Anyway I don't pick the team or recruit players so it's not my problem, would just like to see some new local talent than just trying to keep polishing the same turds hoping that they will become a diamond. 

 

 

Further to what Tesla is saying, Kalmar was winning best player awards in the VPL (which is pretty much the NPL now) and look where he sits in terms of the A-League. He is now one of those A-League "scrap" players you are talking about.  The reality is there is a huge gap between the two leagues and just because some one looks alot more capable playing at that level than some of the players in the A-League does not mean they can make the step up.

 

 

Where do all the Australian players come from? They just don't appear at a A league team do they? I understand that not every player is going to make it. But they have to come from somewhere don't they? It wasn't too long ago that we were going how good Kalmar was. Alright he didn't make the grade and what WSW do is up to them. Even our youth team has come from somewhere, we haven't just plucked them off the street. Some make the grade some don't. The A league will die in a few years going with this reasoning if people aren't going to take a chance on fresh players, perhaps we can just clone these players so they never age. That's why we have scouts isn't to unearth new talent? We have to have so many Australian players in the squad so we are going to have to get them from somewhere. How are we going to know if they are going to be good or not if they don't get a chance. If we can't find players to go into the youth team or step up to the first team then the league will be over in a few years. We take a chance on all players Australian and visa. Anyway the club will sign who it wants. I'll just enjoy the game both A league and NPL. :) 

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SF33    615

 

 

Murf. Of the 24 names listed as our senior squad...Miller was an injury replacement and seems to have left or finishes tomorrow, Villa was a guest player, and Kalmar has departed. Leaving us with 21 players in the squad. To that 21 we must add Kennedy, giving a final number of 22. But it's not that simple, because IIRC two of those are in the "+3" under-23 players we are allowed under the "23+3" rule. Both marquee places are filled.

 

By my calculations we are sitting on the minimum number of players we must have in the 23-man squad, i.e. 20. So again by my calculations we have 3 places available, one of those being a visa place.

 

IIRC again, you are correct in that we did have some space remaining under the salary cap before we released Kalmar. I concur with your view that we should try to recruit well in January with one eye on the future and not just on the remainder of this season.

 

His name wasn't listed on the team sheet that they tweet out before the youth league games, for what it's worth. So, although it's probably not asking too much for the club to release a 30-word statement to clarify what the situation is exactly, we can put two and two together and deduce that Miller has played his last game for Melbourne City. Although, since he was on a temporary contract, I assume that doesn't provide any relief for our implied budgetary restrictions in the transfer period.

 

https://twitter.com/MelbourneCity/status/551211376169857025

 

 

 

there might be a few dominos to fall before they make the call on Miller

 

 

The thing is, if he was an option, I'd probably have him in the A-League team for Sunday, with Melling out and Murdocca unavailable. He could have been handy, given the circumstances. I'd have more faith in him than Retre.

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malloy    3,146

 

 

 

 

Wish they would have a look at the NPL teams. Surely there are good players playing. Hate it how the A league teams seem to keep using the same crap players that just move from team to team, or some hack visa player. Their are good players in the NPL just need to be given a go.

Because it's more of a risk than 'the same crap players that just move from team to team'. At least with those players you know you'll get a solid backup player for the same minimum salary, whereas some guy from the NPL could be better, but they also could be a complete dud leaving you without backup and no other club will take the player off your hands before the contract expires.

 

Well it's worked great so far. Look at some of the duds we have picked up from other clubs. I would hardly call them solid. That's what scouts are for. Supposedly we are meant to have some now. So we just pick up a player that is crap for some other team but he has been in the system so he is solid. We have a long off season surely someone from the club can get to NPL games to watch some players who are actually playing than getting some bloke that doesn't make the team. Anyway I don't pick the team or recruit players so it's not my problem, would just like to see some new local talent than just trying to keep polishing the same turds hoping that they will become a diamond. 

 

 

Further to what Tesla is saying, Kalmar was winning best player awards in the VPL (which is pretty much the NPL now) and look where he sits in terms of the A-League. He is now one of those A-League "scrap" players you are talking about.  The reality is there is a huge gap between the two leagues and just because some one looks alot more capable playing at that level than some of the players in the A-League does not mean they can make the step up.

 

 

Where do all the Australian players come from? They just don't appear at a A league team do they? I understand that not every player is going to make it. But they have to come from somewhere don't they? It wasn't too long ago that we were going how good Kalmar was. Alright he didn't make the grade and what WSW do is up to them. Even our youth team has come from somewhere, we haven't just plucked them off the street. Some make the grade some don't. The A league will die in a few years going with this reasoning if people aren't going to take a chance on fresh players, perhaps we can just clone these players so they never age. That's why we have scouts isn't to unearth new talent? We have to have so many Australian players in the squad so we are going to have to get them from somewhere. How are we going to know if they are going to be good or not if they don't get a chance. If we can't find players to go into the youth team or step up to the first team then the league will be over in a few years. We take a chance on all players Australian and visa. Anyway the club will sign who it wants. I'll just enjoy the game both A league and NPL. :)

 

 

 

Why would you take a risk on a player that isn't even looking like being up to scratch?  JW said above that JVS thought Kalmar was a stand out player and he hasn't turned out to be that great.  So I guess what I am saying is that it is very unlikely that we aren't scouting the NPL players and that the majority of players are deemed not up to scratch or not having the potential to be good. 

 

The fact that we do very occasionally see a player come up from those leagues evidences what I have said above. 

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Tesla    8,101

Wish they would have a look at the NPL teams. Surely there are good players playing. Hate it how the A league teams seem to keep using the same crap players that just move from team to team, or some hack visa player. Their are good players in the NPL just need to be given a go.

Because it's more of a risk than 'the same crap players that just move from team to team'. At least with those players you know you'll get a solid backup player for the same minimum salary, whereas some guy from the NPL could be better, but they also could be a complete dud leaving you without backup and no other club will take the player off your hands before the contract expires.

Well it's worked great so far. Look at some of the duds we have picked up from other clubs. I would hardly call them solid. That's what scouts are for. Supposedly we are meant to have some now. So we just pick up a player that is crap for some other team but he has been in the system so he is solid. We have a long off season surely someone from the club can get to NPL games to watch some players who are actually playing than getting some bloke that doesn't make the team. Anyway I don't pick the team or recruit players so it's not my problem, would just like to see some new local talent than just trying to keep polishing the same turds hoping that they will become a diamond.

 

Further to what Tesla is saying, Kalmar was winning best player awards in the VPL (which is pretty much the NPL now) and look where he sits in terms of the A-League. He is now one of those A-League "scrap" players you are talking about.  The reality is there is a huge gap between the two leagues and just because some one looks alot more capable playing at that level than some of the players in the A-League does not mean they can make the step up.

 

Where do all the Australian players come from? They just don't appear at a A league team do they? I understand that not every player is going to make it. But they have to come from somewhere don't they? It wasn't too long ago that we were going how good Kalmar was. Alright he didn't make the grade and what WSW do is up to them. Even our youth team has come from somewhere, we haven't just plucked them off the street. Some make the grade some don't. The A league will die in a few years going with this reasoning if people aren't going to take a chance on fresh players, perhaps we can just clone these players so they never age. That's why we have scouts isn't to unearth new talent? We have to have so many Australian players in the squad so we are going to have to get them from somewhere. How are we going to know if they are going to be good or not if they don't get a chance. If we can't find players to go into the youth team or step up to the first team then the league will be over in a few years. We take a chance on all players Australian and visa. Anyway the club will sign who it wants. I'll just enjoy the game both A league and NPL. :)

Well for Australian players, they can come from:

1. Overseas

2. State League

3. NYL Squad

4. Directly from the AIS

Seems the majority of AIS graduate get an A-League contract, many of those as a senior player as well rather than NYL. Both Melling and Chapman came via that path, I believe they were on senior contracts at their previous teams, directly from the AIS, so I put them under the AIS pathweay rather than the NYL pathway. Curtis Good was also a famous recruit straight out of the AIS that we had. I think Hamill was also straight on a senior contract with us from the AIS, but as one on the u20 senior players, so still counts as coming directly from the AIS. While Garuccio came from the AIS to our NYL squad, so I'd consider him as coming from the NYL pathway. Not sure how I'd classify Mauk, he signed with us from the AIS, on a youth contract for a year but it was also agreed that he'd move to a senior contract after a year IIRC, so it was always the plan that he'd be a senior player, don't think you can chalk that one up to the NYL. Babalj is an interesting one, he actually played NYL for Perth before going to the AIS, but it's the AIS that got him into a senior A-League contract so I'd chalk him up to the AIS as well.

I'd say the AIS pathway is by far the strongest. you'd be surprised how few new players are actually needed, say you need 18 Australian players in each A-League team, and the average footballer's career is 15 years, you only need 1.2 new Australian players per team per year on average. That's only 12 new players needed a season, and the AIS probably provides half of those. Add a few youngsters coming back from overseas (that have never played A-League before), and some promoted from the NYL (some of these may have come from the AIS as well, or another institute, or the state league,or overseas), it doesn't really leave much room for new players to come from the state leagues.

Now of course that is a simplistic analysis in that it doesnt take into account players leaving the A-League to go overseas, or to drop to the state league, but players also return to the A-League from those sources, so it cancels itself out a lot. Even so, maybe it means we need 1.5 new players per team per season, maybe even 2 new players, it's still not a lot.

So really, do we need much new (to the A-League) talent coming directly from the state leagues? Not really TBH. Especially when we'd hope to see more talent coming via the Youth squads as they will also be playing in the NPL as well as the NYL from this year.

Fact is, the best players don't end up playing in the state leagues.

Edited by Tesla
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NewConvert    719

The hard call is when to end a players contract/career. For me a case study is Nikolai Topor-Stanley currently his fourth club after stints at Sydney, Perth, and Jets (how Heart didn't grab him?). At no stage did I ever think that he was going to become a premier defender, and if I had had the authority I would have terminated his career ages ago. BUT Poppa has turned him into a solid defender and has earned a couple of international caps.

So going by Tesla's calculation (which are good enough) two new players per season means that either players have moved on or have had their career terminated. The question is when and who to replace them with. Be pretty sad to end someone's career only for his replacement not fulfilling their potential.

Finally, visa players are to be reduced to 4 per team this means that one additional local player should be able to step up. And yes the argument that to lift the quality of the A-League we need more imports does have some substance I still rather develop local talent, and for clubs to be more judicious with their visa players. Perhaps the FFA should subsidise the clubs scouts/coaches to travel O/S to see in person the players.

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silva10    818

I do wonder if we will try to move a player on in January

 

For me I think it would be possible to persuade other teams to take Ramsay and Murdocca

 

Maybe Newcastle or CCM can be persuaded to take one of them

 

Then we can maybe bring another two playes in

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Melburnian    1,002

I do wonder if we will try to move a player on in January

For me I think it would be possible to persuade other teams to take Ramsay and Murdocca

Maybe Newcastle or CCM can be persuaded to take one of them

Then we can maybe bring another two playes in

Our even contact overseas teams like in Malaysia or Thailand for a guy like Ramsay. Send a dvd of his cross overs etc and say he's available for free transfer.

This process needed to be started already though.

Best chance is Newcastle and their shitness being desperate.

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Nate    2,571

Murdocca is actually a really handy squad player though and is good when given a role. 

Using him as a creative outlet however is when things start to go very mediocre with this bloke, but he's still worth keeping providing he isn't chewing up too much of the salary cap.

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Red or Dead    1,135

I doubt Murdocca would go to Newcastle; he moved from the Roar to the Heart to come back home to Melbourne.

 

He's 30yo so if we get rid of him, I can see him just playing for his old club South Melbourne...

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silva10    818

I am just hoping to be honest, because if we could somehow free up space for two more signings we could have a very good finish to the season.

 

The two signings I would like to see are a centre back and left back

 

I suppose it just depends if we can scrape the cash together

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mus-28    2,293

After today I'd be happy for the club to take a punt on some NPL players. Poscolieri, Trifiro & Major I'd have in a heartbeat before Williams, Dugandzic or Ramsay.

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marn11    554

After today I'd be happy for the club to take a punt on some NPL players. Poscolieri, Trifiro & Major I'd have in a heartbeat before Williams, Dugandzic or Ramsay.

Let's be honest, NPL players suck donkey dick. Williams would fuck their shit up.

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Murfy1    3,170

Maybe not quite feasible, but.. 

 

Asian Cup 2015: Socceros star Ivan Franjic eyes A-League loan deal after tournament

 

David Davutovic

 

January 4, 2014

 

 

RUSSIA-BASED Socceroo Ivan Franjic revealed that he is eager to return to the A-League on loan after the Asian Cup.

 

Franjic, who is vying with Aston Villa’s Chris Herd for the right-back spot, revealed that he was still haunted by the second half hamstring strain against Chile that ended his Brazil 2014 campaign.

 

Brisbane Roar has struggled to replace the barnstorming right-back since he signed for Torpedo Moscow last August, but new salary cap rules regarding loan players could see him go elsewhere.

 

The Russian season restarts in March after a mid-season break but Franjic hinted at a loan deal until the end of the A-League season in May.

 

“I might go out on loan after the Asian Cup and the A-League would definitely be an option, a very big option,’’ Franjic said.

 

“Maybe come home for four months, re-energise, get my body right then next season when my body’s really good - here you’ve got great physios - then go back to Russia.

 

“I haven’t spoken to any clubs. My agent will speak to clubs and see who can fit me into the salary cap.

 

“They (Torpedo) rang me and want me back. I’ll speak to the coach.’’

 

A late arrival to professional football Franjic, 27, was hungry to make an impact at the Asian Cup.

 

It’s a close call between him and Herd for the right-back role, with both players failing to nail down regular minutes with their Euro clubs.

 

Franjic said the Chile disappointment still hurts.

 

“Mentally and physically it was disappointing to go the way it was because I was probably in the best condition of my life,’’ he said.

 

“After that assist for Timmy I got into the game and felt like it was only going to go up.

 

“But it’s only made me more hungrier and determined to do well at this Asian Cup.

 

“I’m not getting any younger and there’s not many tournaments left, this time I really do need to step up if I do get an opportunity.

 

“As a player you hope to start, but whatever my role is I’m ready.

 

“My body’s in good shape, I’ve done a good pre-season and I’m ready to go.

 

http://www.foxsports.com.au/football/asian-cup-2015-socceros-star-ivan-franjic-eyes-a-league-loan-deal-after-tournament/story-e6frf423-1227174141179

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Deeming    584

Shame that the new loaning rules will likely preclude Franjic coming back for the rest of the season.

 

The FFA have showed that the loan rules are flexible and fluid as long as they suit their agenda so who knows....?

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Dylan    4,152

Freind of mine who usually issnt accurate but we were chasing clisby pre season so thought he might be right this time

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jw1739    7,076

Don't know what to think. Clisby is under contract until the end of 2015-16. And he'd have to get permission from Perth to go with us.

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jw1739    7,076

I know it has been said before, but whose contract expires at the end of the season?

Look in the Player Contracts thread. It's all there.

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kingofhearts    3,327

I know it has been said before, but whose contract expires at the end of the season?

Have you look at the contracted players thread?

Edited by kingofhearts

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Murfy1    3,170

Don't know what to think. Clisby is under contract until the end of 2015-16. And he'd have to get permission from Perth to go with us.

 

That's how we signed Jacob Melling and Connor Chapman, by encouraging their A-League clubs to mutually terminate their contracts (and if the players aren't playing regularly, then the clubs are more open to terminating contracts and freeing up salary cap space). So I wouldn't rule out the possibility of Clisby being signed just because he's contracted.

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Dylan    4,152

I wouldnt take what I said too seriously. The dude I am talking about has been wrong and right in the past. But I posted it because he never mentioned Clisby pre season and it was pretty well known we were after him but Perth wouldnt release (but then Perth was rumored to be offering him to brisbane) 

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