Transfer Talk, Rumours and Speculation

[Mr MO]

1 minute ago, playmaker said:

It fits JMac. He is fast and if he plays a bit deeper he can run onto the ball which suits him to a tee.

The tactic will work in the system we play atm.

I’m confused our current system doesn’t have have two centre forward spots. You want a tall target man and Jmac both playing up front?

[rass]

A couple of things for mine.

EM's most important player in his system at the moment is Griffiths. That's ok, but somewhere higher up you need creativity. One of Brillante or Metcalfe can be your all day box to box type, but the other needs to be creative, especially if your wingers aren't either. 

That's the problem for me, I think we're screaming for someone who will take players on. Noone sort of does, but goes sideways across the top of the box more often than forward. The others just don't.

We've had them in the past; Novillo, Arzani are the first to spring to mind. Perhaps Genreau may be able to do this, or even Najjarine, but I think we need to bring someone in (January for Luna) who will take the game on straight away.

The other option is an out of this world pass unlocker, e.g. Mooy. Again maybe Genreau? But he too still has a long way to go.

Without one of these types, you're just not going to be able to get through teams like Perth.

[Harrison]

7 minutes ago, rass said:

A couple of things for mine.

EM's most important player in his system at the moment is Griffiths. That's ok, but somewhere higher up you need creativity. One of Brillante or Metcalfe can be your all day box to box type, but the other needs to be creative, especially if your wingers aren't either. 

That's the problem for me, I think we're screaming for someone who will take players on. Noone sort of does, but goes sideways across the top of the box more often than forward. The others just don't.

We've had them in the past; Novillo, Arzani are the first to spring to mind. Perhaps Genreau may be able to do this, or even Najjarine, but I think we need to bring someone in (January for Luna) who will take the game on straight away.

The other option is an out of this world pass unlocker, e.g. Mooy. Again maybe Genreau? But he too still has a long way to go.

Without one of these types, you're just not going to be able to get through teams like Perth.

Brillante should be the six. He’s better and has the added bonus of being a deeper lying playmaker. Berenguer will hopefully return to the midfield alongside Metcalfe or Genreau. Need two more expansive eights alongside Brillante. Only way the three man midfield works if your forwards aren’t able to beat opponents and convert chances they also create. And just to add, fullbacks are also important to a system with a more defensive midfield because creative, high fullbacks can be covered off by the midfielders.

Edited December 7, 2019 by Harrison

[playmaker]

It's interesting that the only times we looked ok was when our FBs overlapped wide rather than centralise.

Problem with centralised FBs is that our wings are forced wide and the midfield is forced up hence why we have no midfield territory  and we go back to our defensive line. With the FB over lap our winger can cut in and we have numbers forward and central and our mids are still in position to retrieve a back pass which draws out opposition defenders and this creates space.

1 hour ago, Mr MO said:

I’m confused our current system doesn’t have have two centre forward spots. 

What I am saying is that if Mombaets wants to play the long high ball as a tactic then we structurally (formation) should have a target forward with JMac and perhaps Cabrera running through the aerial contest to receive the 'knock on'

It is still the same formation but with a tweek where the wide wingers become more narrow or a second striker type position.

Griffiths or Delbridge could have gone up there for a little while to see if they could break the defensive block.

From memory Fellaini used be used in this role on occasions

 

Edited December 7, 2019 by playmaker

[Imtellingyou]

Sydney plays two DM. Brilliante is a brilliant DM. But they play Ninkovic in creative role and we play Brilliante and Metcalfe as Ninkovic. That's the difference.

[Mr MO]

55 minutes ago, Imtellingyou said:

Sydney plays two DM. Brilliante is a brilliant DM. But they play Ninkovic in creative role and we play Brilliante and Metcalfe as Ninkovic. That's the difference.

Also Baumjohan is in that free role.

For years Sydney’s is managing to get visa players who make a big difference, this year is no different.

[HughJass]

11 hours ago, Mr MO said:

For years Sydney’s is managing to get visa players who make a big difference, this year is no different.

Look at last year 3 visas they had didn't work yet they still won it 

[Harrison]

22 hours ago, Imtellingyou said:

Sydney plays two DM. Brilliante is a brilliant DM. But they play Ninkovic in creative role and we play Brilliante and Metcalfe as Ninkovic. That's the difference.

Sydney use a 4-2-2-2. With two attacking midfielders and two strikers you need a double pivot. Plus their fullbacks go forward a lot. 

But yes Brillante is a very good six. He’s been good as an eight but we work better with him deeper. The guy just knows where to be and has all the tools for it. I think we will revert back now. 

[citypool]

Like to see us go for aaron Lennon as a marquee player 

[Originalmeme]

On 08/12/2019 at 6:07 PM, Harrison said:

Sydney use a 4-2-2-2. With two attacking midfielders and two strikers you need a double pivot. Plus their fullbacks go forward a lot. 

But yes Brillante is a very good six. He’s been good as an eight but we work better with him deeper. The guy just knows where to be and has all the tools for it. I think we will revert back now. 

yep, rather us be all out attacking with florin/ metcalfe/ luna/ genreau as our advanced mids, i trust josh to do all the work.  also need rich back into the lineup

[Nate]

Griffiths slows our play down terribly with his horrible first touch and often errant passing. Great positioning/tackler but otherwise not much use as a mid and Brillante is far better.

Agreed that Brillante should play as the deep-lying playmaker with Metcalfe/Genreau/Berenguer/Luna in front of him.

[Shahanga]

Griffiths has been good this season but I just think we need our best XI on the field and I reckon he’s not in it, unfortunately.

[Imtellingyou]

Good one.

[Embee]

At this stage we can't afford to remove Griffiths from our midfield IMO.

We're conceding enough goals as it is, teams will cut through us like butter.

Edited December 12, 2019 by Embee

[Harrison]

2 minutes ago, Embee said:

At this stage we can't afford to remove Griffiths from our midfield IMO.

We're conceding enough goals as it is, teams will cut through us like butter. Also, I like Brillante more in the all-action 8 role.

We’re shipping goals with this XI so something needs to change. Windbichler in will help the defence. 

But there’s also problems with the midfield. We’ve not got enough control in the middle third, and using more defensively-minded players actually makes it more vulnerable because there are fewer passing and dribbling options for those types of players. Griffiths limits our ability to play through blocks in the midfield, he doesn’t like to turn on the ball and carry. He’s as slow as treacle too, which means his positioning has to be spot on, and sometimes it’s not. 

It’s the old mantra of attack is the best form of defence. Brillante naturally knows the right spots and with two skilful players in front of him, we can play through teams quicker. We can better control the middle and keep the ball away from our defence. Plus, Brillante is a handy playmaker from deep. He can hit 30-40 yard lifted passes, which helps to pin teams a bit deeper and give us more breathing room. I agree that he’s been good a bit higher up. He can play just about anywhere because he’s a proper footballer but we’re better balanced with him operating deeper. 

[rass]

4 goals conceded against both Adelaide and Brisbane and 3 against Perth. Throw in 2 against WSW and Wellington and it really isn't good enough is it. 

As much as there is a good vibe around Mombaerts, I fear the honeymoon period is nearly over. If this was Joyce, all 12 people on this forum would be going nuts now.

[Imtellingyou]

This is how it goes with this coach. He won't change his system.  Maybe players would adapt or get better. 

[Mr MO]

1 hour ago, Embee said:

At this stage we can't afford to remove Griffiths from our midfield IMO.

We're conceding enough goals as it is, teams will cut through us like butter.

Than should play with 2 DM’s.
 

Currently we are deploying Brillante as AM he just needs to drop a line

[jw1739]

34 minutes ago, rass said:

4 goals conceded against both Adelaide and Brisbane and 3 against Perth. Throw in 2 against WSW and Wellington and it really isn't good enough is it. 

As much as there is a good vibe around Mombaerts, I fear the honeymoon period is nearly over. If this was Joyce, all 12 people on this forum would be going nuts now.

Insistence on just one, same, approach to each match is just a death-wish in terms of results. CFG reminds me of the death of various industries and businesses who "stuck to their strategic knitting" and didn't move with the movement of the world around them - in the end they went under.

I think that the players are realising that. Against Perth, once Perth got the second, they knew they were beaten and they looked like it. A good team and a good strong club would have fought to get back on level terms and get at least a point.

[neio]

2 minutes ago, jw1739 said:

Insistence on just one, same, approach to each match is just a death-wish in terms of results. CFG reminds me of the death of various industries and businesses who "stuck to their strategic knitting" and didn't move with the movement of the world around them - in the end they went under.

I think that the players are realising that. Against Perth, once Perth got the second, they knew they were beaten and they looked like it. A good team and a good strong club would have fought to get back on level terms and get at least a point.

Although I agree that our heads dropped and we were never going to win. I think we're underselling Perth here. They are bloody good team, I know it's all nice to say a good strong team would come back and get a point, a good strong team like Perth is would also completely shut down a game away from home at that position. 

I dunno, the performance from City wasn't good at all. But a fair bit of it was to do with Perth as well, and that will happen

[rass]

5 minutes ago, jw1739 said:

...I think that the players are realising that. Against Perth, once Perth got the second, they knew they were beaten and they looked like it. A good team and a good strong club would have fought to get back on level terms and get at least a point.

Yeah, I'm not sure... after all we did manage to come back against Western United. That was a massive achievement given we also went a goal down - showed real grit.

Perth was weird - felt like watching Geelong play after a bye - totally useless.

..but we need to stop shipping so many goals.

[jw1739]

54 minutes ago, rass said:

Yeah, I'm not sure... after all we did manage to come back against Western United. That was a massive achievement given we also went a goal down - showed real grit.

Perth was weird - felt like watching Geelong play after a bye - totally useless.

..but we need to stop shipping so many goals.

I think my point is that a strong club does it every time.  Who have we lost to? Brisbane and Perth. Perth were the bottom club at the time, and we gave Brisbane their fist win of season after we were 3-1 up. That is not trophy-winning performance.

[Le Hack]

Appatently there's a player who can use his hands to stop goals in the box. Might be good to have us one of them

[Nate]

2 hours ago, Le Hack said:

Appatently there's a player who can use his hands to stop goals in the box. Might be good to have us one of them

I've said it before and I'll say it again, we should sign Federici.

He's still a class keeper, is Australian, he's only 34 which isn't too bad for a goalkeeper at A-League level and he's currently rotting away in the Championship at Stoke who are in the relegation zone so his wages wouldn't be astronomical. 

[Originalmeme]

36 minutes ago, Nate said:

I've said it before and I'll say it again, we should sign Federici.

He's still a class keeper, is Australian, he's only 34 which isn't too bad for a goalkeeper at A-League level and he's currently rotting away in the Championship at Stoke who are in the relegation zone so his wages wouldn't be astronomical. 

we had birighitti last year and hardly played him, if dean isnt benched ever, why do you think it would be any different with federici

[neio]

Carlo Armiento has been released by Adelaide and we are interested, victory front runners though 

[haz]

1 hour ago, neio said:

Carlo Armiento has been released by Adelaide and we are interested, victory front runners though 

Petrillo has the Adelaide youth team on speed dial

[Embee]

21 hours ago, Harrison said:

We’re shipping goals with this XI so something needs to change. Windbichler in will help the defence. 

But there’s also problems with the midfield. We’ve not got enough control in the middle third, and using more defensively-minded players actually makes it more vulnerable because there are fewer passing and dribbling options for those types of players. Griffiths limits our ability to play through blocks in the midfield, he doesn’t like to turn on the ball and carry. He’s as slow as treacle too, which means his positioning has to be spot on, and sometimes it’s not. 

It’s the old mantra of attack is the best form of defence. Brillante naturally knows the right spots and with two skilful players in front of him, we can play through teams quicker. We can better control the middle and keep the ball away from our defence. Plus, Brillante is a handy playmaker from deep. He can hit 30-40 yard lifted passes, which helps to pin teams a bit deeper and give us more breathing room. I agree that he’s been good a bit higher up. He can play just about anywhere because he’s a proper footballer but we’re better balanced with him operating deeper. 

Griffiths isn't the problem there IMO.

The problem is, again, our lack of a real capable, creative #10. Something we haven't had for years.

Brillante is perfectly capable of playing as a 6 behind two further advanced midfielders, but he's also excellent next to a more defensive 6, and he can be very damaging up the field with his range of passing and athletic ability.

Removing Griffiths from the 11 and replacing him with say Berenguer or Luna isn't going to correct our creative problems in my opinion. We need someone able to shield the back 4 and break up play, whilst Brillante can do this Griffiths is also excellent at it and adds a more physical presence whilst allowing Brillante to get into the opposition half a bit more. 

What we need is someone who can play behind the striker who has the creative ability to unlock defences when they sit deep on us. For all his positive qualities, Connor isn't anywhere near there yet and I tend to think Luna is just a bit of a spud.

[Mr MO]

Is there a specific reason why sign all these unproven imports on 2 year deal? 

With the likes of Berenguer, Luna and Cabrera they are clearly a gamble so why commit. Even for our scouting apparatus this must be clear - you only have to look at their resumes, transfer status and physiques (2 Uruguayans).

[rass]

10 minutes ago, Embee said:

Griffiths isn't the problem there IMO.

The problem is, again, our lack of a real capable, creative #10. Something we haven't had for years.

Brillante is perfectly capable of playing as a 6 behind two further advanced midfielders, but he's also excellent next to a more defensive 6, and he can be very damaging up the field with his range of passing and athletic ability.

Removing Griffiths from the 11 and replacing him with say Berenguer or Luna isn't going to correct our creative problems in my opinion. We need someone able to shield the back 4 and break up play, whilst Brillante can do this Griffiths is also excellent at it and adds a more physical presence whilst allowing Brillante to get into the opposition half a bit more. 

What we need is someone who can play behind the striker who has the creative ability to unlock defences when they sit deep on us. For all his positive qualities, Connor isn't anywhere near there yet and I tend to think Luna is just a bit of a spud.

Exactly. As said before, we're screaming for someone creative who can either take on defences or an amazing passer such as Mooy who can split a defence. That link isn't there yet.

Someone mentioned the Sydney formation (4-2-2-2) not so long ago. They use it perfectly because they play two DMs (Brattan and O'Neill) and two AMs who are both wonderful with ball at their feet and the ability to hit that pass (Ninkovic and Bumjocks). It's complemented perfectly (and can only be successful) with two FBs who can get up and down - and as much as a dick he is, Grant is the perfect example of this.

We only have one of those three ingredients (2 x DMs). We don't have marauding all day up and down FBs nor do we have two amazing #10s; fk we don't have one.

So instead we play a sort of 4-1-4-1/4-1-2-3 type of setup. Looks ok on paper, but not that effective - despite the # of goals we have scored. Take away Jmacs amazing strike rate and Brillante's over the top balls and I don't think we have much else at the moment to be honest - well especially against the better defensive teams.

[haz]

13 minutes ago, Mr MO said:

Is there a specific reason why sign all these unproven imports on 2 year deal? 

With the likes of Berenguer, Luna and Cabrera they are clearly a gamble so why commit. Even for our scouting apparatus this must be clear - you only have to look at their resumes, transfer status and physiques (2 Uruguayans).

Fornaroli effect

[rass]

10 minutes ago, Mr MO said:

Is there a specific reason why sign all these unproven imports on 2 year deal? 

With the likes of Berenguer, Luna and Cabrera they are clearly a gamble so why commit. Even for our scouting apparatus this must be clear - you only have to look at their resumes, transfer status and physiques (2 Uruguayans).

I don't think it's that easy tbh. Yeah we supposedly have the best scouting resources at our disposal but let's face it, every player is a risk. For who knows how many reasons, some players just can't adapt or can't fire in certain environments - so every visa will always be a gamble, no matter how good or how bad their CV is.

We struck gold with Bruno. IMO, our best was Novillo - but he came with shit baggage that was rightly too much for the club to put up with. You follow Bruno's Uruguayan background and go back to that well thinking you'll hit the jackpot again but realistically the probability isn't that high. 

Look at Sydney and the flogfest around their imports. But they don't always get it right either. Take De Jong last year - on paper he should have been perfect, but as harsh as it sounds, he was a flop. So too Reza.

[bt50]

3 minutes ago, rass said:

I don't think it's that easy tbh. Yeah we supposedly have the best scouting resources at our disposal but let's face it, every player is a risk. For who knows how many reasons, some players just can't adapt or can't fire in certain environments - so every visa will always be a gamble, no matter how good or how bad their CV is.

We struck gold with Bruno. IMO, our best was Novillo - but he came with shit baggage that was rightly too much for the club to put up with. You follow Bruno's Uruguayan background and go back to that well thinking you'll hit the jackpot again but realistically the probability isn't that high. 

Look at Sydney and the flogfest around their imports. But they don't always get it right either. Take De Jong last year - on paper he should have been perfect, but as harsh as it sounds, he was a flop. So too Reza.

Exactly. Sydney got lucky, even though its not pure luck, with Mierziejewski and Ninko and theyve reaped the rewards.

Honestly my take of watching the A League for 10 years is that by far the most important position in A League teams is not the striker, its the 10. Other than Mooy and Fred we've never had an adequate one.
You can get away with a 6/10 striker with a 9/10 CAM, but the other way around usually means you'll be pretty good, but not quite there. The star 10 means that you can play counter, or through a team that sits on you and be dangerous. We've been a good case over the past few years that we play decent when the game is on our terms, but as soon as a team sits on us and we have to play through we dont have the creativity and end up getting sucked up the park trying to create a number overload, which leaves us vulnerable on the counter.

[Mr MO]

11 minutes ago, rass said:

I don't think it's that easy tbh. Yeah we supposedly have the best scouting resources at our disposal but let's face it, every player is a risk. For who knows how many reasons, some players just can't adapt or can't fire in certain environments - so every visa will always be a gamble, no matter how good or how bad their CV is.

We struck gold with Bruno. IMO, our best was Novillo - but he came with shit baggage that was rightly too much for the club to put up with. You follow Bruno's Uruguayan background and go back to that well thinking you'll hit the jackpot again but realistically the probability isn't that high. 

Look at Sydney and the flogfest around their imports. But they don't always get it right either. Take De Jong last year - on paper he should have been perfect, but as harsh as it sounds, he was a flop. So too Reza.

Aren’t we going around the question here. You are right all players are a risk so why sign them on a 2 year deal?

Fornaroli had the best resume out of all of them, I can’t remember but did we sign him on 2 years initially as regular visa?

[bt50]

1 minute ago, Mr MO said:

Aren’t we going around the question here. You are right all players are a risk so why sign them on a 2 year deal?

Multiple reasons:

1- Its more appealing and stable for the player
2- If the players ends up being decent, the club doesnt have to renegotiate a new deal for the second season to keep them on (see Bart last season)
3- the club recognised two or three seasons ago there was a lot of criticism re player retention and how it made it difficult for fans to relate to the club, and wanted to try slightly longer deals to help solve it.

[rass]

5 minutes ago, Mr MO said:

Aren’t we going around the question here. You are right all players are a risk so why sign them on a 2 year deal?

Fornaroli had the best resume out of all of them, I can’t remember but did we sign him on 2 years initially as regular visa?

I don't know, are we? I was just responding to your statement. Why not 2 years though? If they're on a 1 yr contract and they fire, they'll likely fk off anyway. If they're on a two and don't, then you break that contract (it's not like contracts are the steel bond they used to be are they).

Did Fornaroli really have the best cv? Better than Castro's, Ninko's? Or better than Del Piero, Honda, Villa? Not sure about that.

[Mr MO]

50 minutes ago, rass said:

I don't know, are we? I was just responding to your statement. Why not 2 years though? If they're on a 1 yr contract and they fire, they'll likely fk off anyway. If they're on a two and don't, then you break that contract (it's not like contracts are the steel bond they used to be are they).

Did Fornaroli really have the best cv? Better than Castro's, Ninko's? Or better than Del Piero, Honda, Villa? Not sure about that.

Sorry I was comparing Bruno’s resume to our other visa signings. I’m not that silly. When have we ever broken a contract with a poor signing? Only with Koren, we don’t because it counts towards the cap.

We mention the failed visa signings from Sydney but these guys are mostly always on loan and they won’t be here for a second year. Perhaps that is an avenue to explore to avoid these continuous poor signings  which we are seem to be stuck with.

Edited December 13, 2019 by Mr MO

[rass]

22 minutes ago, Mr MO said:

Sorry I was comparing Bruno’s resume to our other visa signings. I’m not that silly. When have we ever broken a contract with a poor signing? Only with Koren, we don’t because it counts towards the cap.

We mention the failed visa signings from Sydney but these guys are mostly always on loan and they won’t be here for a second year. Perhaps that is an avenue to explore to avoid these continuous poor signing which we are seen to stuck with.

Got ya - I thought that was a bit of a weird thing for you to say.

It's a tough one. We explore that avenue of short loans and then we all start complaining about no culture, stability, loyalty, blah, blah....

[Harrison]

2 hours ago, Embee said:

Griffiths isn't the problem there IMO.

The problem is, again, our lack of a real capable, creative #10. Something we haven't had for years.

Brillante is perfectly capable of playing as a 6 behind two further advanced midfielders, but he's also excellent next to a more defensive 6, and he can be very damaging up the field with his range of passing and athletic ability.

Removing Griffiths from the 11 and replacing him with say Berenguer or Luna isn't going to correct our creative problems in my opinion. We need someone able to shield the back 4 and break up play, whilst Brillante can do this Griffiths is also excellent at it and adds a more physical presence whilst allowing Brillante to get into the opposition half a bit more. 

What we need is someone who can play behind the striker who has the creative ability to unlock defences when they sit deep on us. For all his positive qualities, Connor isn't anywhere near there yet and I tend to think Luna is just a bit of a spud.

In the City style of play that’s only half the job though. That position isn’t just about defensive duties. They’re critical to almost everything. Griffiths can’t do it as well as Brillante, it’s that simple. In fact I just don’t think he’s suited to being a single pivot at all. 

Where we agree is the painful lack of decent midfielders, because it means Josh has to push up and we lose all of his qualities in a vital position. But I will say this: Berenguer gets slaughtered on here because he’s not Ninkovic (I wish he was) but he’s what we need at the moment. As soon as he’s fit he comes back in. I’m very confident that he will help us win matches. Not necessarily because he’s going to dominate, but it’s because he will better balance the midfield and help us control the middle areas. The ball will spend more time in the oppo half. 

1 hour ago, rass said:

Exactly. As said before, we're screaming for someone creative who can either take on defences or an amazing passer such as Mooy who can split a defence. That link isn't there yet.

Someone mentioned the Sydney formation (4-2-2-2) not so long ago. They use it perfectly because they play two DMs (Brattan and O'Neill) and two AMs who are both wonderful with ball at their feet and the ability to hit that pass (Ninkovic and Bumjocks). It's complemented perfectly (and can only be successful) with two FBs who can get up and down - and as much as a dick he is, Grant is the perfect example of this.

We only have one of those three ingredients (2 x DMs). We don't have marauding all day up and down FBs nor do we have two amazing #10s; fk we don't have one.

So instead we play a sort of 4-1-4-1/4-1-2-3 type of setup. Looks ok on paper, but not that effective - despite the # of goals we have scored. Take away Jmacs amazing strike rate and Brillante's over the top balls and I don't think we have much else at the moment to be honest - well especially against the better defensive teams.

Yes I mentioned they use a type of 4-2-2-2. It suits their players. They used Retre next to Bratts last match. If we had another decent striker we could actually attempt something like that by using Berenguer and perhaps Genreau, Metcalfe or Najjarine as the attacking midfielders. But we have Noone, Cabrera, Luna and Wales who are more suited to wide positions from what I’ve seen. If Wales could finish he could be used up top but as we know, his finishing is ordinary. So we go back to a 4-3-3 which shapes, like you said, sometimes as a 4-1-4-1 or in certain phases as a 3-4-3. 

[jw1739]

1 hour ago, rass said:

I don't know, are we? I was just responding to your statement. Why not 2 years though? If they're on a 1 yr contract and they fire, they'll likely fk off anyway. If they're on a two and don't, then you break that contract (it's not like contracts are the steel bond they used to be are they).

Did Fornaroli really have the best cv? Better than Castro's, Ninko's? Or better than Del Piero, Honda, Villa? Not sure about that.

Bruno's CV was very ordinary before he came to us. Quite a few people questioned his signing at first - even the great Murf did so. 

My take on this is that it is actually better for the club to sign visa players on a one-season contract only. If a player wants to be loyal to a club he will be. If he wants to chase more money he will do, and I don't think that there's much evidence that too many players will be held to a contract when they want away - Bruno certainly was one, but most seem to leave as soon as they wish to. Likewise so will the fans be loyal if they want to be. The club can make fans loyal to it in many other ways, and IMO length of player contracts isn't a big factor.