Transfer Talk, Rumours and Speculation

[Harrison]

David Davutovic in today’s Herald Sun says Delianov ‘is bound for Western United.’

[jw1739]

52 minutes ago, Harrison said:

David Davutovic in today’s Herald Sun says Delianov ‘is bound for Western United.’

Scholarship player, out of contract at the end of this season. Not a lot we can do. This is where longer-term planning comes in, and that doesn't appear to be a strong point with us. 

He wasn't really tested last night, but I noted his kicking was not great.

Edited April 27, 2019 by jw1739

[haz]

2 minutes ago, jw1739 said:

but I noted his kicking was not great.

Was going to say the same thing

[Mr MO]

17 minutes ago, jw1739 said:

Scholarship player, out of contract at the end of this season. Not a lot we can do. This is where longer-term planning comes in, and that doesn't appear to be a strong point with us. 

He wasn't really tested last night, but I noted his kicking was not great.

How do you mean there is nothing we can do? We could have offered contracts to these kids months ago.

[jw1739]

1 hour ago, Mr MO said:

How do you mean there is nothing we can do? We could have offered contracts to these kids months ago.

Do you know that we didn't? Do you want us to have tied up places in next season's squad "month's ago?" It's always a balance and while it may seem easy to us from where we sit - and I've been vocal in complaining about plenty of things - it's not always simple to achieve that balance.

[Dylan]

It’s enough for me to take pride in that these kids are City grads. This was one of Hearts founding principles so I’m glad it’s finally bearing fruit

[Dylan]

4 hours ago, Dylan said:

It’s enough for me to take pride in that these kids are City grads. This was one of Hearts founding principles so I’m glad it’s finally bearing fruit

Just to add to this. This is one aspect of the CFG relationship that is hugely beneficial. No way in hell would we get the same price for Mooy if it wernt for CFG. Same thing will probably happen with Arzani.

keep going down this path with  CFG and we could fund our own stadium

[haz]

55 minutes ago, Dylan said:

we could fund our own stadium

Stop being such an optimist 

[Mr MO]

2 hours ago, Dylan said:

keep going down this path with  CFG and we could fund our own stadium

For who? Keep going down this path and there won’t be any fans left.

Edited April 28, 2019 by Mr MO

[jw1739]

2 hours ago, Dylan said:

Just to add to this. This is one aspect of the CFG relationship that is hugely beneficial. No way in hell would we get the same price for Mooy if it wernt for CFG. Same thing will probably happen with Arzani.

keep going down this path with  CFG and we could fund our own stadium

The new stadium for Western Sydney cost A$330m.

Unless we can substantially cut stadium capacity, built-in amenities and construction costs, I can't see any A-League club building one.

[citypool]

If delianov and briggiti leave is Eugene staying as our goalie?

[neio]

3 hours ago, citypool said:

If delianov and briggiti leave is Eugene staying as our goalie?

If all 3 go, I'd say that we will either reinstate Bouzanis as he will have finished his loan, or we get another keeper. Who knows from where, or what our options are especially if we go for an aussie keeper 

[AlwaysHeart]

Why don't we go for some players from the Balkans ? always decent quality and cheap.

[Jovan]

1 hour ago, AlwaysHeart said:

Why don't we go for some players from the Balkans ? always decent quality and cheap.

And crazy

[Dylan]

19 hours ago, jw1739 said:

The new stadium for Western Sydney cost A$330m.

Unless we can substantially cut stadium capacity, built-in amenities and construction costs, I can't see any A-League club building one.

Right, for a 30,000 Capacity. We dont need anything near that. Besides we also have that Matildas bid by Latrobe to create a base there which the club could jump on to.

Mooy was sold for 10 mil pounds right? Which is 18 mill here. Lets say $200 mil for a 15k seater. Thats 11 Mooys. Plus ad into that that 10mil is low for a player like Mooy anyway.

On top of all of that I would say the club doesnt need to raise the money first before anything happens. Just need to prove the concept can make the money back

Edited April 29, 2019 by Dylan

[haz]

24 minutes ago, Dylan said:

Right, for a 30,000 Capacity. We dont need anything near that. Besides we also have that Matildas bid by Latrobe to create a base there which the club could jump on to.

Mooy was sold for 10 mil pounds right? Which is 18 mill here. Lets say $200 mil for a 15k seater. Thats 11 Mooys. Plus ad into that that 10mil is low for a player like Mooy anyway.

On top of all of that I would say the club doesnt need to raise the money first before anything happens. Just need to prove the concept can make the money back

Im sure CFG could snuggle in with the VIC government too. 

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liebenauer_Stadium

Anyone know how much this cost to build in the late 90s?

Edited April 29, 2019 by haz

[NewConvert]

3 hours ago, haz said:

Im sure CFG could snuggle in with the VIC government too. 

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liebenauer_Stadium

Anyone know how much this cost to build in the late 90s?

from memory it was about $450M but that has the fancy roof. A simpler design would have cost less.

[Shahanga]

On 28/04/2019 at 4:26 PM, Dylan said:

Just to add to this. This is one aspect of the CFG relationship that is hugely beneficial. No way in hell would we get the same price for Mooy if it wernt for CFG. Same thing will probably happen with Arzani.

keep going down this path with  CFG and we could fund our own stadium

We got fuck all for both those guys.

Man city did well out of Mooy though and given they paid a fraction of the market value for Arzani I dare say they’re confident of a nice profit there too.

Edited April 29, 2019 by Shahanga
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[HEARTinator]

8 hours ago, AlwaysHeart said:

Why don't we go for some players from the Balkans ? always decent quality and cheap.

I agree generally with what you say. The Balkan player mindset would be the complete opposite to Joyce's. Here's an article by the late Mike Cockerill on this very subject. But he missed out on mentioning Josip Skoko.

https://www.smh.com.au/sport/soccer/fading-balkan-influence-taking-wow-factor-out-of-aleague-20150315-144dq8.html

 

Fading Balkan influence taking wow factor out of A-League

By Michael Cockerill

Updated March 15, 2015 — 9.53pm first published at 6.00pm

Balkan coaches. You love or you hate them. What I do know is we miss them. Badly. In the NSL era, they were everywhere. In the A-League, they've disappeared. The cost? We're not identifying, and nurturing, enough of those players we'd all happily pay to see.

If there is a familiar refrain from ex-players about the A-League, it's this: too bland, too homogenous, too structured, too predictable. Where are the game-changers, the crowd-pleasers? Where – if I can channel my commentary colleague Ned Zelic – is the "individual brilliance"?

True enough, it takes a lot to excite people who have played at the highest level. But the ex-pros recognise talent when they see it, and are quick to applaud it. Trouble is, they're not applauding enough.

Many blame a system which encourages, even demands, coaches choose athleticism above skill, conformity above creativity. Where is the room for the mavericks, the ball players who light up a match with a pass, or a touch, but don't necessarily cover 12 kilometres before the final whistle?

Balkan coaches empathise with maverick players because, culturally, many of them are mavericks themselves. Some drink, some smoke, some swear. Some do all three. But what they all know is this. Footballers win games, and bring crowds. Not athletes.

Arguably the most influential coaches in our history have been Rale Rasic, Frank Arok and Zoran Matic. They were all born-and-raised in the former Yugoslavia. It's no coincidence.

In the A-League decade, there have been 62 coaching appointments. Only five of those have gone to coaches with a Balkan background – Tony Popovic, Rado Vidosic, Branko Culina (twice) and Mehmet Durakovic. Of those, only Vidosic came here as an adult, and thus it may be said he was fully imbued in the Balkan way.

The lack of a Balkan influence is obviously not the only reason we've struggled to evolve game-changing players during the A-League era. But it's a significant factor.

Take Milan Ivanovic, a decorated former Socceroos defender who was born-and-raised in Serbia before he arrived here at the age of 29. Ivanovic hoped to become a career coach when he retired at the age of 39, but 15 years later he's effectively given up.

Ivanovic played the game like he prefers watching it. With instinct and intuition, based on a foundation of high technical ability. A street footballer until the age of 15, he was a Red Star Belgrade player by the age of 20, and went on to become a Socceroos legend despite making his debut at the age of 30.

If Ivanovic was now coaching at a professional level, the players he would encourage are those like himself. The artists rather than the artisans. There would be discipline, and structure, and a strong base of fitness, but the team would always find room for the gifted individual.

Ivanovic has thought about doing his badges, but always baulks at the last moment. Without the badges he can't coach at a professional level, but to get the badges he would be expected to conform to an ideology he doesn't totally embrace. He's torn.

A clever, mature, coach education system should allow for different opinions, different beliefs, different methods, and different cultures. There's a perception – rightly or wrongly – that our system doesn't offer any flexibility. That perception is enough to keep people like Ivanovic away.

The Balkan influence remains powerful in the developing football world. In Asia, Africa and parts of North/Central America, clubs and associations recognise and respect the Balkan ideology. I'd wager that Serbia, Croatia, Montenegro, Slovenia and Macedonia send more coaches abroad than any other region in the world.

But here we've decided we don't want to listen, or learn. And we don't even have to import these coaches because many of them – like Ivanovic – are already here.

Think of many of the truly gifted players we have produced – the likes of Oscar Crino, John Markovski, Mark Viduka, Billy Vojtek and Zelic – and there's a profound Balkan influence in there somewhere. If we want to develop these type of players again, we need to acknowledge what's been missing.

Edited April 29, 2019 by HEARTinator

[jw1739]

Oh yeah? You could probably write something similar for a whole raft of countries.

[citypool]

We should go for brad Inman playing for Rochdale in division one 

[Dylan]

10 hours ago, Shahanga said:

We got fuck all for both those guys.

Man city did well out of Mooy though and given they paid a fraction of the market value for Arzani I dare say they’re confident of a nice profit there too.

A 15 mil facility?

which has been improved upon since, including adding the women’s facilities?

Edited April 29, 2019 by Dylan

[moops]

1 hour ago, Dylan said:

A 15 mil facility?

which has been improved upon since, including adding the women’s facilities?

Mooy went for over $22M iirc, if Huddersfield sells him (which looks likely) I am sure they will get a percentage of that as well. So his initial sale has probably evened the ledger with the purchase of the club and the facilities.

Who knows what will happen with Arzani, I think Celtic was a bad choice and the manager didn't seem to have any say in it, the Holland move would have been better imho. Hopefully he gets another chance to show what he can do, but there is a lot of competition for those winger spots.

[bt50]

12 hours ago, Shahanga said:

We got fuck all for both those guys.

Man city did well out of Mooy though and given they paid a fraction of the market value for Arzani I dare say they’re confident of a nice profit there too.

Tbh i think irrespective of where the book profits are realised, be it Melbourne, Japan or Manchester, CFG will know exactly where their profit making assets are coming from and the investment will be duly matched.

As Dylan has mentioned those two dont even cover facilities alone, let alone marquee spends, and the purchase of the club etc.

[jw1739]

2 hours ago, bt50 said:

Tbh i think irrespective of where the book profits are realised, be it Melbourne, Japan or Manchester, CFG will know exactly where their profit making assets are coming from and the investment will be duly matched.

As Dylan has mentioned those two dont even cover facilities alone, let alone marquee spends, and the purchase of the club etc.

Correct. They're just putting the profits and losses where it most benefits (or least adversely impacts) the overall business.

CFG has also consistently said that the spend in Melbourne won't be more than what it assesses is sufficient to win the A-League and be competitive in Asia. Just chucking buckets of money into Melbourne won't happen. CFG knows that doing so will just encourage sloppy management here.

My only beef with what CFG is doing in Melbourne is the question of the identity of the club, and I think it has got that wrong. Other than that IMO what it is doing is right for what I think the CFG objectives are.

Edited April 30, 2019 by jw1739

[playmaker]

10 minutes ago, jw1739 said:

CFG knows that doing so will just encourage sloppy management here.

CFG already do enough to encourage sloppy management, it's called incompetence and has nothing to do with spending a bucket load of money.

I would argue that their mis-management of high quality players, marquees and visas over the last 3 years has cost them dearly.

From memory Marwood himself made reference to our club having to be profitable in its own rite, yet management decisions have been far from supportive of that goal.

 

[Mr MO]

1 hour ago, jw1739 said:

Correct. They're just putting the profits and losses where it most benefits (or least adversely impacts) the overall business.

CFG has also consistently said that the spend in Melbourne won't be more than what it assesses is sufficient to win the A-League and be competitive in Asia. Just chucking buckets of money into Melbourne won't happen. CFG knows that doing so will just encourage sloppy management here.

My only beef with what CFG is doing in Melbourne is the question of the identity of the club, and I think it has got that wrong. Other than that IMO what it is doing is right for what I think the CFG objectives are.

I think you are way too kind here JW. The spend is definitely not sufficient to be competitive (I’ve never been on “our squad on paper is amazing” wagon). The person who made those assessments deserves the chop, seens to know nothing about the league in general, winning statistics, visa player management etc.

It’s sloppy management what got us in this situation in the first place and I actually think spending money on some decent players to play good football would have made lots of supporters happy.

[jw1739]

9 minutes ago, Mr MO said:

I think you are way too kind here JW. The spend is definitely not sufficient to be competitive (I’ve never been on “our squad on paper is amazing” wagon). The person who made those assessments deserves the chop, seens to know nothing about the league in general, winning statistics, visa player management etc.

It’s sloppy management what got us in this situation in the first place and I actually think spending money on some decent players to play good football would have made lots of supporters happy.

I think I have to disagree with you, at least in part. We did have decent players at the start of the season. We won 11 matches, and it was the inexplicably poor losses to the bottom four sides that cruelled our season - had we won those we would have been right up there with the chasing pack.

Where I would probably agree with you is that given that all clubs have to spend more or less the same amount on non-marquee players, we are probably paying some of the journeymen players too much.

I'm not saying that there isn't room for improvement in our current management, because clearly there is. What I'm saying is that chucking buckets of money at the situation won't improve the current management and therefore CFG won't do it.

Edited April 30, 2019 by jw1739

[n i k o]

I've been saying as well for a while, somewhere along the chain of command SOMETHING must be wrong. There's a path that leads to success and there is a path that diverts and leads us to this current situation. How far back along that path do we go to find the things we did right before they went wrong I'm not sure. 

There's the outside chance cfg were hoodwinked by Joyce but even then the evidence all pointed to him being exactly what we see currently, imo. 

When I spoke to the youth coach over the phone I asked him directly who controls Melbourne operation and decisions. In no certain terms he said all football decisions are made by the head coach and director of football. He wouldn't state whether the style of play or coaching appointments are made by CFG. This is the single most important issue I have with CFG, is this lack of transparency.

Edited April 30, 2019 by n i k o

[Mr MO]

6 minutes ago, jw1739 said:

I think I have to disagree with you, at least in part. We did have decent players at the start of the season. We won 11 matches, and it was the inexplicably poor losses to the bottom four sides that cruelled our season - had we won those we would have been right up there with the chasing pack.

Where I would probably agree with you is that given that all clubs have to spend more or less the same amount on non-marquee players, we are probably paying some of the journeymen players too much.

I'm not saying that there isn't room for improvement in our current management, because clearly there is. What I'm saying is that chucking buckets of money at the situation won't change anything and therefore CFG won't do it.

Our squad was out of balance from the start plus underwhelming visa signings, only one centre forward. Have we forgotten how shit our football has been even in most of those 11 wins, we have been scraping out fortunate wins for years now with the occasional exception.

We are probably in the top 3 of spendings in the league, that points to sloppy and bad management doesn’t it?

Edited April 30, 2019 by Mr MO

[jw1739]

2 minutes ago, Mr MO said:

Our squad was out of balance from the start plus underwhelming visa signings, only one centre forward. Have we forgotten how shit our football has been even in most of 11 eleven, we have been scraping out fortunate wins for years now.

We are probably in the top 3 of spendings in the league, that points to sloppy and bad management doesn’t it?

I don't think we're going to agree. Our visa signings at the start of the season were Schenkeveld, De Laet, Berenguer, Fornaroli and O'Halloran. Berenguer perhaps underwhelming, but the other four certainly not.

[Mr MO]

Yep let’s disagree. Your list is underwhelming compared to main tittle contenders Perth, Sydney and Victory.

How about my other comment? It’s not only about the visas. Out of balance squad with one centre forward and adding Baccus. They all go hand in hand these stuff ups.

Edited April 30, 2019 by Mr MO

[playmaker]

A list of the potential onsells over the last 3 years where CFG could have made money.

Kilkenny

Colazo

Brandan

Budzinski

Zullo

Bruno

O'Halloran

Just to name a few.

Surely by using CFG resources we could have made a $30+ million from some of these players

Interestingly a vast majority were ostracized and outcast, and yet would be good enough to appear in our first 11 today.

 

[Mr MO]

33 minutes ago, playmaker said:

A list of the potential onsells over the last 3 years where CFG could have made money.

Kilkenny

Colazo

Brandan

Budzinski

Zullo

Bruno

O'Halloran

Just to name a few.

Surely by using CFG resources we could have made a $30+ million from some of these players

Interestingly a vast majority were ostracized and outcast, and yet would be good enough to appear in our first 11 today.

 

But you have never seen these guys train?

[Harrison]

54 minutes ago, playmaker said:

A list of the potential onsells over the last 3 years where CFG could have made money.

Kilkenny

Colazo

Brandan

Budzinski

Zullo

Bruno

O'Halloran

Just to name a few.

Surely by using CFG resources we could have made a $30+ million from some of these players

Interestingly a vast majority were ostracized and outcast, and yet would be good enough to appear in our first 11 today.

 

Not sure how you arrived at a figure like $30 million. If they could’ve made any money on those players, they would’ve.

There are no transfer fees allowed between A-League clubs and none of our players are really good enough to attract transfer fees from overseas clubs. 

Malik is the only one in more recent times that has been sold for a fee and I doubt we got much at all for him.

[jw1739]

8 minutes ago, Harrison said:

Not sure how you arrived at a figure like $30 million. If they could’ve made any money on those players, they would’ve.

There are no transfer fees allowed between A-League clubs and none of our players are really good enough to attract transfer fees from overseas clubs. 

Malik is the only one in more recent times that has been sold for a fee and I doubt we got much at all for him.

According to transfermarkt, Malik was a free transfer. As for Colazo and Brandan, both were on loan to us and both returned to their respective clubs, so no money to be made there. Kilkenny and Zullo went to A-League clubs, so likewise. Budzinski was apparently unwanted by Joyce from the start, O'Halloran was homesick and Fornaroli (or perhaps his agent) blotted his copybook. Apparently there were no overseas approaches for Bruno, so even if we could have received any money for any transfers, it would not have been more than a few hundred thousands.

[Bob Latchford]

1 hour ago, playmaker said:

A list of the potential onsells over the last 3 years where CFG could have made money.

Kilkenny

Colazo

Brandan

Budzinski

Zullo

Bruno

O'Halloran

Just to name a few.

Surely by using CFG resources we could have made a $30+ million from some of these players

Interestingly a vast majority were ostracized and outcast, and yet would be good enough to appear in our first 11 today.

 

$30m 

Keep playing FIFA Career Mode lad. You really are clueless every time you post.

[Harrison]

Just now, jw1739 said:

According to transfermarkt, Malik was a free transfer. As for Colazo and Brandan, both were on loan to us and both returned to their respective clubs, so no money to be made there. Kilkenny and Zullo went to A-League clubs, so likewise. Budzinski was apparently unwanted by Joyce from the start, O'Halloran was homesick and Fornaroli (or perhaps his agent) blotted his copybook. Apparently there were no overseas approaches for Bruno, so even if we could have received any money for any transfers, it would not have been more than a few hundred thousands.

Club confirmed Malik was transferred for an undisclosed fee. So did Davutovic IIRC. 

[HughJass]

 Can Petrilo go and find a non Adelaide or ex victory player ffs 

[Deluka]

Would all but confirm RDL won't be loaned to us again (not that I expected him to be), would rather see Atkinson get the lion's share of game time at RB with Galloway back up for Jamieson or Atkinson when he's away with young Socceroos.