Jump to content
Melbourne Football
Nate

New York City FC

Recommended Posts

9 minutes ago, n i k o said:

Referring to the point in bold I think that's the interesting part. What parameters are they? We signed Joyce for what purpose? He struggled at senior level but was successful at youth level. No proof he could win anything. Natural to assume that perhaps the club saw him as someone that could bring through our youth players as well as win the league? This is one of those decisions that shouldn't be an issue. It should be to win trophies. It's one of those decisions that doesnt feel right. 

Another point, it's been painfully obvious we desperately need a playmaker since Mooy. I've felt all along the club has chosen the development path with this position, signing McGree, Brattan, etc. instead of a bonafied proven playmaker. Again the club has chosen to go down a certain path with this based on the parameters they set out. It's no accident this position still hasn't been filled properly. 

Im not asking for endless money to be poured in. At the very least I understand the basics of how club finances work and am not ignoring them. Im also aware of the FFAs control over the clubs. However I'm simply asking for total ambition to win trophies. And right now I'm just not feeling this is the case with the club. 

 

I suppose im largely talking about financial parameters there, but even perhaps style parameters. Hard to know there, and even if they exist, we are failing miserably by trying to force something that doesnt work.

IMO Joyce was largely appointed as he was seen as a driver of culture. His youth cultivation was a secondary positive.
Its important to remember that we were lambasted both internally and externally for our team culture after our Cup winning season and subsequent implosion. The Perth final was utterly humiliating with a the most expensive team in HAL history, that could only manage a 4th place finish. IMO Joyce was appointed to fix that, and perhaps the assumption was, with such a talented list a gaffer that would fix the lax attitudes could steer this ship to a powerhouse, not just for one year but for 5.
Ultimately in my humble opinion, he's tactically not good enough and has perhaps taken the fun out of playing for us. I believe that the players still believe in the message, as its logical and fair, but as a result it has turned everyone into robots and has sucked the enjoyment and enthusiasm out of the group, particularly with results going downhill. Once that happens you're cooked. I guess I'm saying i think he's lost the playing group in spirit, but not in message, which ultimately ends in the same result.

Playing group wise i sincerely believe that whilst we've lacked in a few positions somewhat, we've still had a far stronger squad than everyone else, at least depth wise. Agree that our inability to get a dominant 10 may have been what has held us back somewhat, esp given teams love to sit on us and counter. Wazza's preference for a hard working 10 prob hurts there too, because a hard working 10 thats dominant doesnt really exist in this league unless they are a Honda, which takes you back to the first point re FFA and 2nd marquee.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, bt50 said:

I suppose im largely talking about financial parameters there, but even perhaps style parameters. Hard to know there, and even if they exist, we are failing miserably by trying to force something that doesnt work.

IMO Joyce was largely appointed as he was seen as a driver of culture. His youth cultivation was a secondary positive.
Its important to remember that we were lambasted both internally and externally for our team culture after our Cup winning season and subsequent implosion. The Perth final was utterly humiliating with a the most expensive team in HAL history, that could only manage a 4th place finish. IMO Joyce was appointed to fix that, and perhaps the assumption was, with such a talented list a gaffer that would fix the lax attitudes could steer this ship to a powerhouse, not just for one year but for 5.
Ultimately in my humble opinion, he's tactically not good enough and has perhaps taken the fun out of playing for us. I believe that the players still believe in the message, as its logical and fair, but as a result it has turned everyone into robots and has sucked the enjoyment and enthusiasm out of the group, particularly with results going downhill. Once that happens you're cooked. I guess I'm saying i think he's lost the playing group in spirit, but not in message, which ultimately ends in the same result.

Playing group wise i sincerely believe that whilst we've lacked in a few positions somewhat, we've still had a far stronger squad than everyone else, at least depth wise. Agree that our inability to get a dominant 10 may have been what has held us back somewhat, esp given teams love to sit on us and counter. Wazza's preference for a hard working 10 prob hurts there too, because a hard working 10 thats dominant doesnt really exist in this league unless they are a Honda, which takes you back to the first point re FFA and 2nd marquee.

I'd say back to that, the club placing culture over ability to coach a team to win trophies is a flaw in itself. Because ultimately the lack of success will affect the culture within the team and the club as we've seen. What we needed was a coach that could win us trophies. It's a simple perspective but I beleive totally accurate. They looked at culture but clearly overlooked/failed not only Joyce ability to win trophies but also his playing style. Who are they? Who made these decisions? This comes back to my post in the Scott Munn thread which I won't go into here. 

 

Regarding the squad I beleive our current position reflects accurately just how strong our squad is. Yes depth wise we are one of the strongest. But first eleven? No way in hell are we near the top. Left back, DM, both wingers, AM, our forward. Easily rattle off 4 or 5 positions alone where we would be middle to bottom of the table in strength. 

 

Edit: MacLaren is up there with being one of ten best forwards. I was thinking of Wales playing majority of the season when I wrote that. 

Edited by n i k o

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, n i k o said:

I'd say back to that, the club placing culture over ability to coach a team to win trophies is a flaw in itself. Because ultimately the lack of success will affect the culture within the team and the club as we've seen. What we needed was a coach that could win us trophies. It's a simple perspective but I beleive totally accurate. They looked at culture but clearly overlooked/failed not only Joyce ability to win trophies but also his playing style. Who are they? Who made these decisions? This comes back to my post in the Scott Munn thread which I won't go into here. 

 

Regarding the squad I beleive our current position reflects accurately just how strong our squad is. Yes depth wise we are one of the strongest. But first eleven? No way in hell are we near the top. Left back, DM, both wingers, AM, our forward. Easily rattle off 4 or 5 positions alone where we would be middle to bottom of the table in strength. 

 

Edit: MacLaren is up there with being one of ten best forwards. I was thinking of Wales playing majority of the season when I wrote that. 

Not unfair by any stretch. Going into the season i thought we were top 3 or better in nearly every position except wingers tbh. IMO thats whats cost us really.
Someone like Jamo is nothing special, but he's also capable at the level. There's not many good full backs in the league tbf, and there never will be with a cap. Roarcelona had fucking Stefanutto as their starting FB for example.

I agree we've never really replaced Mooy, but i also think McGree would be a top 3/4 AM in this league, or even Brattan for that matter without being the super star we crave.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
13 minutes ago, bt50 said:

Not unfair by any stretch. Going into the season i thought we were top 3 or better in nearly every position except wingers tbh. IMO thats whats cost us really.
Someone like Jamo is nothing special, but he's also capable at the level. There's not many good full backs in the league tbf, and there never will be with a cap. Roarcelona had fucking Stefanutto as their starting FB for example.

I agree we've never really replaced Mooy, but i also think McGree would be a top 3/4 AM in this league, or even Brattan for that matter without being the super star we crave.

I'm curious where you think the plays rate now. I'd rate Jamo around 5th within the league. McGree with his 11 games last season reminds me of Kamau in a way. Not totally established or proven for the previous team he played for however comes in with a bit of hype and ironically both scored wonder goals in the finals series to increase their hype. So far this season Honda, Troisi and Antonis are ahead of him and that's from just one team. Agree with both wingers. Our defensive mids going into the season seemed solid however are questionable now. Griffiths and Baccus I wouldn't rate near the best in their position. Probably closer to middle of the pack. And just to go back to it we had Lachie Wales as our striker majority of the season. To me we had a handful of positions that were not more no where near the top. We could keep going around in circles with this. It's always an interesting point to debate so happy if you want to dispute any of these if you'd like though. 

Edited by n i k o

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
8 minutes ago, n i k o said:

I'm curious where you think the plays rate now. I'd rate Jamo around 5th within the league. McGree with his 11 games last season reminds me of Kamau in a way. Not totally established or proven for the previous team he played for however comes in with a bit of hype and ironically both scored wonder goals in the finals series to increase their hype. So far this season Honda, Troisi and Antonis are ahead of him and that's from just one team. Agree with both wingers. Our defensive mids going into the season seemed solid however are questionable now. Griffiths and Baccus I wouldn't rate near the best in their position. Probably closer to middle of the pack. And just to go back to it we had Lachie Wales as our striker majority of the season. To me we had a handful of positions that were not more no where near the top. We could keep going around in circles with this. It's always an interesting point to debate so happy if you want to dispute any of these if you'd like though. 

Happy to have the conversation with you cos you're open to reason and accept that there's some subjectivity about it all, unlike some others on here.
Don't disagree with any of those, although I'd prob point out McGree has rarely been played in midfield all season. Now i can appreciate why that is, as we havent had any wingers and we've seemed to have quite a few mids, but its left us with a sub-optimal solution in both positions now rather than one good and one poor.

IMO, this season we have plenty of players struggling, whereas last season i thought quite a few, most, were contributing only for us to make individual errors that cost us games. No-one frustrates me personally more than Bratts with his Jekyll and Hyde like form, and pondering ont he ball that stifle all our attacks. Yet hes as naturally gifted as anyone in the squad.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
8 hours ago, bt50 said:

Happy to have the conversation with you cos you're open to reason and accept that there's some subjectivity about it all, unlike some others on here.
Don't disagree with any of those, although I'd prob point out McGree has rarely been played in midfield all season. Now i can appreciate why that is, as we havent had any wingers and we've seemed to have quite a few mids, but its left us with a sub-optimal solution in both positions now rather than one good and one poor.

IMO, this season we have plenty of players struggling, whereas last season i thought quite a few, most, were contributing only for us to make individual errors that cost us games. No-one frustrates me personally more than Bratts with his Jekyll and Hyde like form, and pondering ont he ball that stifle all our attacks. Yet hes as naturally gifted as anyone in the squad.

Brattan is incredibly up and down. I remember a few games back at home it was obvious his effort was off. Not sure what it is with him.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

This is my somewhat thorough analysis of our midfielders.

Brattan is one of the best players in the league, technically-speaking. There's not many Australian players with his combination of football intelligence and technique. He can strike the ball better than anyone and can score goals from anywhere and in any fashion: on the volley, half-volley, top corner across his body with every part of the boot. Unfortunately, he is inconsistent and needs others around him to give him the opportunity to make the play. He can't impact the game the way Castro or Ninkovic do but if you give him the opportunity to play a slide-rule pass he will usually nail it. As mentioned by others, he is a slow player and this frustrates a lot of people but it's not a deficiency of his game...it's just his style. This is not to say he is physically slow or slow-minded, just that he thinks through his passes. His nutmeg against Fitzgerald against WSW leading to the goal was evidence of an extremely intelligent and 'fast-thinking' footballer because that to him was a natural movement but, when on the ball in space, he processes more slowly. 

McGree is thought of as a CAM but I see him as a box-to-box CM. He is tidy, can run all day and is creative enough to fashion and convert chances. I don't think he is creative enough to be a CAM, which is why he is better suited to a left-sided CM role. He's a balanced player whose qualities fit the role of a CM better than they do a CAM as he's a link-type player. As I said above, Brattan is a slow player in his decision-making whereas McGree is a fast-moving, busy type who can join the attack when the opportunity presents itself. He is the oil that makes the midfield engine run smoothly. 

Baccus and Griffiths are different types of CDMs. Baccus is better on the ball and is excellent at retaining possession. He's able to turn on the ball, dribble in tight spaces and give it off, but he too often misplaces forward passes at key moments (Sydney) and can't really trouble defences or goalkeepers. He also switches off sometimes at critical moments. Griffiths can do a bit of everything but is sloppier on the ball in tight, which doesn't suit a possession-based team that plays out from the back. Griffiths has the height to win aerial contests though, which is very important. I think you can either play one or the other but it depends on pairing. Both are good at breaking up the play but statistically Baccus is one of the best in the league in terms of tackles laid and tackle success rate. Playing one of these two as the single pivot would work well but Joyce rarely deploys one.

Berenguer should be included here because he suits the profile of an attack-minded CM/CAM perfectly. I'd lean more towards a CAM role just because his defensive capabilities and his engine are somewhat lacking for a box-to-box role. He is very good on the ball and is a very creative player. When he goes wide, he is far too restricted and I can tell that he is uncomfortable there. He collects the ball very wide (almost on the touch-line) despite drifting centrally and routinely floats poor crosses in. He is not the modern winger because he lacks the speed to cut inside and beat his man. Centrally though, he can pick out passes in a much bigger space. His combination with Maclaren could be very hard to defend. Yes he's been disappointing (those bloody air swings!) but to get the most out of him he should be played in front of the players above and given a free role behind Maclaren. 

To conclude, I don't like boxing players into particular positions because modern football now is moving towards shapes as opposed to formations and players are being used in a way that suits their abilities rather than their assumed positions. In this sense, Joyce is a modern coach but he is not using the players according to their abilities...he is playing them in positions that don't suit their abilities. His style is also too defensive and possession-based which prevents us from breaking down our opponents. He hasn't convinced me in almost two seasons that he understands the modern game from a tactical perspective.

Edited by Harrison

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, jw1739 said:

Haven't won a game this season so far.

For clarity they are 3 draws and a loss from their first four...

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

If CFG aren't getting the message by now then they are deafer that I thought possible. Their focus on "brand" just does not engage local fans.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 4/11/2019 at 4:25 PM, jw1739 said:

If CFG aren't getting the message by now then they are deafer that I thought possible. Their focus on "brand" just does not engage local fans.

If anything, all their teams (bar Manchester) being shit surely is only negative towards their "Brand"

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 13/04/2019 at 7:35 AM, haz said:

If anything, all their teams (bar Manchester) being shit surely is only negative towards their "Brand"

They are only where they are in the EPL because of their massive spend on the squad - the highest of the 20 clubs.

image.png.8b30c96869d7857741388a69dbead63a.png

  • Thanks 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, jw1739 said:

They are only where they are in the EPL because of their massive spend on the squad - the highest of the 20 clubs.

image.png.8b30c96869d7857741388a69dbead63a.png

Pep needs to be tested at a club with a lower budget. Bald fraud

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

image.png.873e52ef3f4cd17311b1890b4fb3ca81.png

Poised to win their first trophy with 4 games remaining. The play Philly away in the final game so abrring a total bed shit, a draw there prob wins them the Eastern Conference.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

NYC lost 0-2 to New England. Columbus 2-0 over Philadelphia.

NYC are Premiers (or whatever they call it) of MLS Eastern Conference!

Edited by jw1739

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
9 hours ago, jw1739 said:

NYC lost 0-2 to New England. Columbus 2-0 over Philadelphia.

NYC are Premiers (or whatever they call it) of MLS Eastern Conference!

This year is our year...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.


×
×
  • Create New...