The JvS thread

[silva10]

I started watching Heart/City when the takeover wea announced. Then the team went on a good run before running out of steam at the end of the season.

 

Now IMO today's performance was streets ahead of anything that was played in that winning sequence.

 

Also as many of you have said on here there was no proper training base for the players.

 

You can see form today's game how much energy the team had left at the end of the game with Newcastle players falling down with cramp and tiredness.

 

The one thing I think the club have done wrong is not signing the Aussie Marquee and the other Visa player they can.

 

Apart, from that I can see an improvement so far in the first 2 games and expect them to get stronger as the league goes on.

 

Therefore Tesla I ahve to disagree with you in asking for JVS to be sacked.

 

If we are bottom after 10 games then I may change my mind.

[sheepdog]

I got ya back tesla.

Sack jvs.

A fish rots from the head...

[Tesla]

I just don't buy the 'it's the same story argument'. This argument that Melbourne City's 1st season will be a redux of Melbourne Heart's 1st season, as apart from JVS next to nothing has stayed the same. The club is no longer owned by the vision-less gang of Sidwell and co., and is instead owned by the super-rich football powerhouse Manchester City. We don't train on a cow's paddock anymore (I used to train on La Trobe pre-redevelopment. It was a real dump and must have been demoralising for any footballer who trained there and purported to be a professional), and the club now has a wealth of resources (a quality football physio team, football analysts, a full coaching staff [with no more part timers]). So predicting a trend based on 2 games that matches Melbourne Heart's first season I just believe is unreasonable.

That's not really what I meant. I'm talking about probably 85% of the time JVS has been coach, there has been a very worrying pattern during games. It goes: we dominate, we don't score, we let in a soft goal, we draw or lose. It's startling how it has continued over such a long period of tiem with so many other changes having happened. Something is not right.

Also, you are letting the players off very lightly. Many people wanted all Melbourne Heart players gone. Now they are all good enough to comprise a top A-League team, and it's all the coach's fault for not producing win after win?? Hoffman is still Hoffman, Ramsay is still Ramsay, Murdocca is still Murdocca. The team won't finish top this season because the cattle isn't there, and no coach could stop Hoffman, Ramsay, Murdocca and Williams from largely following the patterns of play they've shown in recent seasons. "The squad is good"? Bullshit. At least a third of the squad comprises of Melbourne Heart players that aren't good enough to be in a there or thereabouts A-League team, and it's BS to pin Hoffman's, Ramsay's, Williams' et al.'s inadequacies on the coaching staff.

Let's say you are right, that the squad from last year was rubbish. There really isn't a lot of difference between the top and bottom teams in the A-League, and adding Villa, Duff, and Mooy to last seasons squad makes it a top squad in the A-League regardless of whether it was shit. But I don't even think it was, I think we have some players who have the ability to be far better players than they have shown, if the right manager was in charge. Judging the players by last season performances isn't fair, they all played far worse than their ability, and that blame lies with the managers IMO. A perfect example is Behich, he was a great player for us in the previous seasons, no where near his true ability last season, and now he is a regular for a top team in the Turkish league. There are plenty of talented players in this team. Think back to when we have seen Dugandzic play his best, an absolutely brilliant player at A-League level. As much as I like to bag out Williams, he has talent as well, but we've only ever seen brief glimpses of it. I could go on. And if the squad is really that weak, why didn't JVS ask for better players, or players more suited to his tactics?

So all up the club has changed. The club's resources have changed, and the club culture is slowly but surely changing. But still, there are several Melbourne Heart players in the squad, and sure enough Melbourne City's first 2 matches have had a few reminders of Melbourne Heart. I'd say that the bigger surprise is how little Melbourne City has been reminiscent of Melbourne Heart, with the team getting back into matches over the 90 minutes of every competitive match the team has played (FFA Cup, Sydney, Today), and has generally looked more purposeful in attack, whilst the team is still very much a work in progress, with a half new starting XI and half new squad.

I think some believe the team has peaked in week 2, despite all the new players (not to mention the fact that neither an International marquee and an Australian marquee have yet to play for the team). Whereas I know the team hasn't peaked, and significant improvement will come. So better football will come and the wins will come. And writing off the team's season's prospects after 2 rounds just doesn't make sense to me, and much much more evidence needs to be put forward before there's a case against JVS.

Again, I'm not saying nothing has changed, many things have changed and that's why there is a case against JVS. Because, despite all these changes, there is still this pattern that I identified (dominate, don't score, concede, no result) that has always plagued us with JVS in charge. And since so many other things have changed, with JVS one of the few variables that hasn't, it surely isn't far-fetched to blame him.

[KSK_47]

The fact that people are once again blaming players for not executing JVS's genius game plan to perfection is laughable. Blaming things on of players like Mass (who played a key role in Brisbane's championship team- but comes to us and clogs up our midfield) and Ramsay (who never seemed to have any problems tearing us a new one every time Adelaide played us- yet comes to us and plays like an absolute donkey) says a lot.

 

Seriously, what do people think he needs a team of allstars? You guys know its the A-League dont you? Do you think the likes of Topor Stanley or Mark Bridge were top of every club's shopping list? No. Yet, still somehow they managed to play a key role in the success of WS because they were utilized well and Popa managed to get the best out of them. 

 

I am not calling for JVS's head yet, but fuck me. If you cant put on a show with the squad we have then you are dead set nowhere good enough to be here.Things need to improve and quickly.

[belaguttman]

I started watching Heart/City when the takeover wea announced. Then the team went on a good run before running out of steam at the end of the season.

 

Now IMO today's performance was streets ahead of anything that was played in that winning sequence.

 

Also as many of you have said on here there was no proper training base for the players.

 

You can see form today's game how much energy the team had left at the end of the game with Newcastle players falling down with cramp and tiredness.

 

The one thing I think the club have done wrong is not signing the Aussie Marquee and the other Visa player they can.

 

Apart, from that I can see an improvement so far in the first 2 games and expect them to get stronger as the league goes on.

 

Therefore Tesla I ahve to disagree with you in asking for JVS to be sacked.

 

If we are bottom after 10 games then I may change my mind.

I think that we've probably left the last visa spot free to try and squeeze Villa in for a longer loan (hopefully anyway). There's always a possibility that Germano will be fit and so we can't use an injury replacement option. The Aussie marquee will be filled in January with Josh Kennedy although I'm concerned about his injury history and wonder how much he'll play.

 

Most of the change needed is in organisational culture. We can see that this is already happening, but that magnitude of change requires time.

Edited October 19, 2014 by belaguttman

[Falastur]

 

If you disagree, please tell me on what grounds you could possibly think JVS can lead us to success? I just can't see anything to support that idea.

 

Well, you asked for it...

 

I just don't buy the 'it's the same story argument'. This argument that Melbourne City's 1st season will be a redux of Melbourne Heart's 1st season, as apart from JVS next to nothing has stayed the same. The club is no longer owned by the vision-less gang of Sidwell and co., and is instead owned by the super-rich football powerhouse Manchester City. We don't train on a cow's paddock anymore (I used to train on La Trobe pre-redevelopment. It was a real dump and must have been demoralising for any footballer who trained there and purported to be a professional), and the club now has a wealth of resources (a quality football physio team, football analysts, a full coaching staff [with no more part timers]). So predicting a trend based on 2 games that matches Melbourne Heart's first season I just believe is unreasonable.

 

Also, you are letting the players off very lightly. Many people wanted all Melbourne Heart players gone. Now they are all good enough to comprise a top A-League team, and it's all the coach's fault for not producing win after win?? Hoffman is still Hoffman, Ramsay is still Ramsay, Murdocca is still Murdocca. The team won't finish top this season because the cattle isn't there, and no coach could stop Hoffman, Ramsay, Murdocca and Williams from largely following the patterns of play they've shown in recent seasons. "The squad is good"? Bullshit. At least a third of the squad comprises of Melbourne Heart players that aren't good enough to be in a there or thereabouts A-League team, and it's BS to pin Hoffman's, Ramsay's, Williams' et al.'s inadequacies on the coaching staff.

 

 

So all up the club has changed. The club's resources have changed, and the club culture is slowly but surely changing. But still, there are several Melbourne Heart players in the squad, and sure enough Melbourne City's first 2 matches have had a few reminders of Melbourne Heart. I'd say that the bigger surprise is how little Melbourne City has been reminiscent of Melbourne Heart, with the team getting back into matches over the 90 minutes of every competitive match the team has played (FFA Cup, Sydney, Today), and has generally looked more purposeful in attack, whilst the team is still very much a work in progress, with a half new starting XI and half new squad.

I think some believe the team has peaked in week 2, despite all the new players (not to mention the fact that neither an International marquee and an Australian marquee have yet to play for the team). Whereas I know the team hasn't peaked, and significant improvement will come. So better football will come and the wins will come. And writing off the team's season's prospects after 2 rounds just doesn't make sense to me, and much much more evidence needs to be put forward before there's a case against JVS.    

 

 

There's a lot of truth in this statement. I'd be the first to admit that I am terrible at analysing tactics (I understand them, I just simply don't notice them in during a match) and players so I won't comment on the differences in the team's style, but I do know about Melbourne City off the pitch and this stuff bears consideration. It's barely been any time at all since Heart ended their last season playing on the terrible facilities they used to be using, and two months into the new season is hardly enough time to witness the changes there making an impact.

 

It's a very fair point that you guys don't have the marquees playing who should be in the squad, and what I can say of what I've watched this season is that Villa has been relying heavily on Duff's crosses and the occasional punt up-field as the players in the centre of midfield often don't have the quality to thread him through. With Koren I'm really hoping that will change, and with an Aussie marquee then the quality of the team surely must improve, whatever position they end up playing in.

 

They say in the Premier League that you should wait ten games before looking at the table as you never know what will happen in early season. I know the A-League season is shorter but I'm going to wait until 10 games in before really studying JVS' results for signs of improvement or failure. Even then, I can see the argument that the team simply hasn't had enough turnover in staff yet to expect great things, even after half a season.

[Deviant]

The prime minister has spoken.

[TPH1]

SACK THE BOARD 

[japiedog]

Where to start with this???

met an old mate from playing days for the match, had a chat on the way in, came to the conclusion that really we must win 3-0 , 3-1 to keep the crowd that we got for this match

I remembered previous starts to the season, an ok first week, second week squandered

 

After the first 15 mins I mentioned to my mate that if we don't score soon I can see us getting caught out on the break,

well this went on an on and sure enough

 

My mate told me that Paul Wade ( who we both played with) explained to him that Yes he ran around like a headless chicken and covered every blade of grass, BUT it was his job to press, harrass, win every tackle, win every header , BUT when he got the ball he was to pass to Peterson or Trimboli, he was never to pass the ball more than 10 metres, He knew his role in the team

 

For the Newcastle coach, it must have been a pleasure to see Paddy trying to dribble out of defence and play 30 -40 metre  through balls, of to see Mass at the top of the D being the creative "Number 10"

This is where JVS needs to give the players a kick up the backside, someones not working this out, the specific roles of the players

 

Partaluu is not fit, every player that comes back from Asia ,  is a wreck, when he came off, I don't know why Mooy had to drop back rather than Retre or Mass

 

The ball to be channeled through Mooy or Partaluu (Koren when fit) when played out from the back, not hoofed forward,

 

Ramsay, again a waste of space,

Again the opportunities were there to put this game away in the first 20 minutes, but some things never change

 

the signing of Partaluu, gives us great options, as it allow the fullbacks to overlap and create options for the midfield, but alas neither really did, though the Hoff was overlapping and making himself available( but rarely used)

 

My 2 cents,

 

I m worried for the Derby

Edited October 19, 2014 by japiedog

[Jovan]

I am undecided. The team is definitely playing are more developed and refined style as to last season, and tobe fair isn't hard. The squad is greatly improved in quality albeit still a few gaping holes, but overall much better.

Major concern I have is that JVS persists almost dogmatically with his 4 3 3. I like the system as a rule, BUT is almost entirely reliant on the fullbacks pushing into space becoming the 4 mid and then becoming the 4th forward. Archibald last week had moments of forward movement and contributed to many forward moves including as I recall the goal. Why didn't he start? Hoffman offered zero offensively, Ramsay IMO isn't suited to play in this formation.

I thought when he went off late and we swapped to a 3 4 3 and were chasing the game was probably 10 minutes too late, having said that we should of copped a certain goal when Jets missed a sitter on the 6yarder. I am really worried about next 3 weeks Tards, adelaide and roar. What's going to happen with 2 points from 5 games, what will be the reaction both on here and from the club. I have grave fears for JVS, even 5 points from 5 games will be nervous times.

[HeartFc]

The issue I saw tactically was urgency. If he instructed the players to take a few risks earlier (say after half time) then he would've no doubt scored at least 2 or 3 goals. The Newcastle players were falling apart and we generating a chance every 2 minutes in the last 10. It took us a goal against and the realization that there was only 10 minutes left to play a brutal style of attacking football.

JVS fucked up by playing Murdocca for a full 90. The guy cannot operate in close quarters nor can he put in a cross or make a final pass.

Edited October 19, 2014 by HeartFc

[jw1739]

A gentle reminder that this is JvS' third stint as the club's senior coach. He was our inaugural coach for the first two seasons (2010-11 and 2011-12), was brought back in December 2013 by Sidwell to take us to the end of the 2013-14 season on an interim basis after the sacking of John Aloisi, and some weeks after the takeover in January 2014 was confirmed as the club's senior coach for three seasons commencing this season 2014-15.

 

Those who support his retention need to explain to me what it is about JvS(edition 3) that gives them confidence that he will be any better than JvS(editions 1 and 2), because I just cannot see it.

[cadete]

 

Cue the butthurt from all the JVS haters     

Looks like we gotta put up with 3 more seasons of beautiful clean football and great results 

Forza football purism     

 

Oh god his predictions just get better and better as time goes on and on...

Edited October 19, 2014 by cadete

[SF33]

A gentle reminder that this is JvS' third stint as the club's senior coach. He was our inaugural coach for the first two seasons (2010-11 and 2011-12), was brought back in December 2013 by Sidwell to take us to the end of the 2013-14 season on an interim basis after the sacking of John Aloisi, and some weeks after the takeover in January 2014 was confirmed as the club's senior coach for three seasons commencing this season 2014-15.

 

Those who support his retention need to explain to me what it is about JvS(edition 3) that gives them confidence that he will be any better than JvS(editions 1 and 2), because I just cannot see it.

 

I guess the feeling is that maybe he doesn't have to be significantly better, since all the off-field stuff is on a different planet now to where it was, even as recently as when he took over from Aloisi again and this squad on paper is as good as anything in the A-League and miles ahead of anything that Heart ever boasted. Duff has come in, he's been outstanding, I'd guess he's probably in the top six or so highest profile/best credentialed players an A-League team has had for an extended period and he's not even our marquee.

 

As others have mentioned, I'm a bit concerned about the next three games, as on the surface, four points would look like a reasonable return from those matches, but the natives will still be feeling a bit restless with six points from five starts, because we didn't capitalise with at least another two points from our first two weeks. I think if we can get a win against Victory, JVS will be back in the good books with a lot of people, we'll probably be in the top four, and all will be right with the world (well, unless we lose the following game at Suncorp). But anything less than a win from the derby and he's officially on the hot seat.

[fiz.heart]

in all our history weve never been able to learn how to break down a half decent defense. we may aswell just be a counter attacking team because keeping possession has never got us anywhere.

 

also i dont think that much pressure will be on JVS this season.. we may have new owners but the same muppets that kept JA for so long are still in charge of this club. one of the reasons why yesterday just felt like an ordinary heart game but with even more disappointed fans.

Edited October 20, 2014 by fiz.heart

[FB.]

Cue the butthurt from all the JVS haters     

Looks like we gotta put up with 3 more seasons of beautiful clean football and great results 

Forza football purism     

Oh god his predictions just get better and better as time goes on and on...

Tell us again about how Mifsud is going to win the golden boot :lawl:

[n i k o]

Sacking after round 2 and two draws? Typical knee jerk supporter response. Actually surprised at some people on here who otherwise are reasonable in what they say.

However that doesn't mean the tactics can't be questioned. I for one questioned our style of play throughout the first 70 minutes, and had we taken our chances early on would still question why we weren't playing directly. What I want to know is why jvs is trying to play indirect football with overlapping wingers and fullbacks when playing the ball on the wing is playing our weakest players in the team? I still stand by it that Hoffman is defensively sound and doesn't cost us goals or games. There is a player like him in every starting eleven. Ramsey, different story. But why are we playing with overlapping fullbacks when going forward they would be our weakest players?

I still think jvs is a very knowledgable coach, but I hope he isn't stuck in his ways where he can't adapt. I don't believe it's a lack of knowledge, I'm sure jvs saw we looked far more dangerous playing directly. I remember them saying that Gombau at Adelaide also had to adapt his game as he saw it wasn't going to work as well as he hoped. All in all I wasn't entirely happy with our style of play for the majority of the game. Taking into account we were chasing the game in the last 15 minutes, so we were pressing a lot more, I still believe that more direct approach is how we should be playing, or how I would like us to play.

[KSK_47]

Sacking after round 2 and two draws? Typical knee jerk supporter response. Actually surprised at some people on here who otherwise are reasonable in what they say.

However that doesn't mean the tactics can't be questioned. I for one questioned our style of play throughout the first 70 minutes, and had we taken our chances early on would still question why we weren't playing directly. What I want to know is why jvs is trying to play indirect football with overlapping wingers and fullbacks when playing the ball on the wing is playing our weakest players in the team? I still stand by it that Hoffman is defensively sound and doesn't cost us goals or games. There is a player like him in every starting eleven. Ramsey, different story. But why are we playing with overlapping fullbacks when going forward they would be our weakest players?

I still think jvs is a very knowledgable coach, but I hope he isn't stuck in his ways where he can't adapt. I don't believe it's a lack of knowledge, I'm sure jvs saw we looked far more dangerous playing directly. I remember them saying that Gombau at Adelaide also had to adapt his game as he saw it wasn't going to work as well as he hoped. All in all I wasn't entirely happy with our style of play for the majority of the game. Taking into account we were chasing the game in the last 15 minutes, so we were pressing a lot more, I still believe that more direct approach is how we should be playing, or how I would like us to play.

If we hadn't seen the mostly garbage he produced in s1, 2 and the tail end of last season I would agree with you. However, we have seen it all before and we've also heard every excuse under the sun.

No where to hide this season. Get the team playing exciting, winning football or fuck off.

[NewConvert]

Too early to call on JVS. All through the pre-season this forum has been highlighting the shortcoming of some of the players and of course the perplexing thing has been why some were given new contracts whilst for others the club is probably waiting for the contract to expire. Overall the team is playing tighter more cohesive football - they actually look like a team. The big concern through the pre-season has been the defence and the left back position, and they remain so. JVS has to develop game plans with the players he has right now and so far is OK but should do better. Additionally football is a low scoring game and hence a small mistake/lapse can be costly and the Jets proved that yesterday. Also perhaps the Jets deserve more respect than what they are getting.

 

Changing the topic slightly to Mate Dugandzic - as mentioned above and elsewhere he has never seem to be the same player since his injury. But another thought crept into my head during the game - perhaps he is the same player but the game has now progressed beyond his talent/capabilities. He is not a complete dud - he can still harass and pressure the opposition, he can still run along the flanks, etc but maybe the requirement for better execution of passing and having shots on goal is now beyond what he can deliver.

[markn]

at least we havn't lost a game yet.

 

Positive is 2 games without a loss. We are doing better than last season winners Brisbane.

[cadete]

 

 

Cue the butthurt from all the JVS haters     

Looks like we gotta put up with 3 more seasons of beautiful clean football and great results 

Forza football purism     

Oh god his predictions just get better and better as time goes on and on...

Tell us again about how Mifsud is going to win the golden boot :lawl:

 

Mate you are so fucken clueless at predicting things that you cannot even predict your own behaviour?

 

Apparently you were meant to fuck off straight away if the club ever changed its colours - Of course the colours not changing due to a successful #KeepMelbourneRedAndWhite campaign being another of your shithouse predictions.

 

Instead you are at the New Supporter Club Meeting in days,

Suggesting the eventual Name for the New Supporter Group,

And rocking up at cold Preseason games in the height of winter.

Edited October 20, 2014 by cadete

[FB.]

Cue the butthurt from all the JVS haters     

Looks like we gotta put up with 3 more seasons of beautiful clean football and great results 

Forza football purism     

Oh god his predictions just get better and better as time goes on and on...

Tell us again about how Mifsud is going to win the golden boot :lawl:

Mate you are so fucken clueless at predicting things that you cannot even predict your own behaviour?

 

Apparently you were meant to fuck off straight away if the club ever changed its colours - The colours not changing of course being another of your shithouse predictions.

 

Instead you are at the New Supporter Club Meeting in days,

Suggesting the eventual Name for the New Supporter Group,

And rocking up at cold Preseason games in the height of winter.

Blow me

[japiedog]

 

 

 

 

Cue the butthurt from all the JVS haters     

Looks like we gotta put up with 3 more seasons of beautiful clean football and great results 

Forza football purism     

Oh god his predictions just get better and better as time goes on and on...

Tell us again about how Mifsud is going to win the golden boot :lawl: Mate you are so fucken clueless at predicting things that you cannot even predict your own behaviour?

 

Apparently you were meant to fuck off straight away if the club ever changed its colours - The colours not changing of course being another of your shithouse predictions.

 

Instead you are at the New Supporter Club Meeting in days,

Suggesting the eventual Name for the New Supporter Group,

And rocking up at cold Preseason games in the height of winter.

Blow me

 

ha

great to see some constructive criticism going on here! :D

[kingofhearts]

 

 

 

 

Cue the butthurt from all the JVS haters     

Looks like we gotta put up with 3 more seasons of beautiful clean football and great results 

Forza football purism     

Oh god his predictions just get better and better as time goes on and on...

Tell us again about how Mifsud is going to win the golden boot :lawl: Mate you are so fucken clueless at predicting things that you cannot even predict your own behaviour?

 

Apparently you were meant to fuck off straight away if the club ever changed its colours - The colours not changing of course being another of your shithouse predictions.

 

Instead you are at the New Supporter Club Meeting in days,

Suggesting the eventual Name for the New Supporter Group,

And rocking up at cold Preseason games in the height of winter.

Blow me

 

You just don't get this type of mateship shown on other football forums <3

[Nate]

[cadete]

 

 

 

 

 

Cue the butthurt from all the JVS haters     

Looks like we gotta put up with 3 more seasons of beautiful clean football and great results 

Forza football purism     

Oh god his predictions just get better and better as time goes on and on...

Tell us again about how Mifsud is going to win the golden boot :lawl: Mate you are so fucken clueless at predicting things that you cannot even predict your own behaviour?

 

Apparently you were meant to fuck off straight away if the club ever changed its colours - The colours not changing of course being another of your shithouse predictions.

 

Instead you are at the New Supporter Club Meeting in days,

Suggesting the eventual Name for the New Supporter Group,

And rocking up at cold Preseason games in the height of winter.

Blow me

 

You just don't get this type of mateship shown on other football forums <3

 

This is actually a pretty big mistruth...

 

I can think of at least four other Australian Football Forums that can often get just as heated.

Edited October 20, 2014 by cadete

[FB.]

Mate, picturing you palm mashing your keyboard, getting your panties in a knot over me once again gave me the best laugh of today.

If that's what you call heated keep it up.

[cadete]

Mate, picturing you palm mashing your keyboard, getting your panties in a knot over me once again gave me the best laugh of today.

If that's what you call heated keep it up.

Had much contact from the lads of late mate?

[Murfy1]

I'm pressed for time, so I'll just say:

 

- First of all I think there are some thoughtful and understandable questions being put forward about the team and about JVS. However, as I've said, I firmly believe that 2 games and 2 draws into the season that there is no case for sacking the coaching staff, and that the heavily negative responsibles are far too knee-jerk, and are based on too little data (that is, a mere 2 games of football). 

 

- Singling out Behich and Dugandzic from last season's 24 players is to use 2 unrepresentative players of last season's squad's quality. Half of last season's squad got axed, and they had to be axed, and some were even shown the door before the season finished: Mifsud, Mebrahtu, Macallister. As for the Heart players that remain, Redmayne, Velaphi, Hoffman, Ramsay, Kalmar, Dugandzic and Williams in particular all aren't adding enough to the team currently, and I believe that the Heart players who comprise the current squad are ultimately weighing the team down. Some of them will come good this season (for example, I'm still optimistic about Dugandzic), but I think most Heart players will depart the club over the next year or two. So all up the squad is fundamentally imbalanced, with half a top team (consisting of the new signings) and half a team of players with dubious quality, and who seem truly scarred by the chronic underachievement of the Melbourne Heart seasons, and these players (in particular in the well known areas of LB, RB and GK) will hold the team back from being a top A-League team this season.

 

- The fundamentals of Melbourne City's football over the first 2 games have looked solid and promising, and I reckon a person who was neutral, and who didn't have the baggage of seeing the team play Melbourne Heart's 4 seasons, would acknowledge that the team is playing good attacking football, and has a good outlook. The SBS Extra Time show last night, for example, provided just that summary of Melbourne City. It just seems to be Melbourne Heart supporters who are anxious that this season will mimic the 2010-11 season.

Another thing is that the outcomes of games, and the mentality the team plays with, look much improved on previous seasons. There is no doubt that Melbourne Heart would have lost both the Round 1 match against Sydney, and yesterday's Round 2 match. The team is turning matches that it would have previously have lost into draws. And I believe that matches that the team would have previously have drawn will steadily become wins. The team will improve more, will start taking the lead more often and the wins will come.

 

- Remember as well that Adelaide United under Gombau lost 5 and drew 3 of its first 9 matches last season. And for all the Gombau fanfare his team finished 6th. Implementing a solid structure and playing style based on attacking football is hard, and always takes a little time (especially when contrasted with the largely defensive and counterattacking football that the Jets played, as it is harder to create than destroy). And with that in mind, its my judgement that the attacking football the team is playing is coming along quite well, and I believe more will be shown in upcoming rounds.

 

- The burden of proof is on those making the case. Why should the coach be sacked? There is something to the question 'what it is about JvS(edition 3) that gives them confidence that he will be any better than JvS(editions 1 and 2), because I just cannot see it', and it is that the team has played very little football: 2 games. There has been very little to see, period, good or bad. Nonetheless, I think the initial signs are good, and believe there is no strong and decisive arguments that prove that the team and the coach are fated to have a bad season.

 

 

A final point is that I believe the team isn't far off. In my judgement the fundamentals are solid, and if there's slight improvement, for example a better player in LB and an in form forward/attacker (e.g. an in form David Williams), then I believe there will be a lot of reward and successful matches for Melbourne City. There are weaknesses that do hurt, but at the same time I believe the team is not far off, and things will come together. 

[HeartMillsy29]

I'm pressed for time, so I'll just say:

 

- First of all I think there are some thoughtful and understandable questions being put forward about the team and about JVS. However, as I've said, I firmly believe that 2 games and 2 draws into the season that there is no case for sacking the coaching staff, and that the heavily negative responsibles are far too knee-jerk, and are based on too little data (that is, a mere 2 games of football). 

 

- Singling out Behich and Dugandzic from last season's 24 players is to use 2 unrepresentative players of last season's squad's quality. Half of last season's squad got axed, and they had to be axed, and some were even shown the door before the season finished: Mifsud, Mebrahtu, Macallister. As for the Heart players that remain, Redmayne, Velaphi, Hoffman, Ramsay, Kalmar, Dugandzic and Williams in particular all aren't adding enough to the team currently, and I believe that the Heart players who comprise the current squad are ultimately weighing the team down. Some of them will come good this season (for example, I'm still optimistic about Dugandzic), but I think most Heart players will depart the club over the next year or two. So all up the squad is fundamentally imbalanced, with half a top team (consisting of the new signings) and half a team of players with dubious quality, and who seem truly scarred by the chronic underachievement of the Melbourne Heart seasons, and these players (in particular in the well known areas of LB, RB and GK) will hold the team back from being a top A-League team this season.

 

- The fundamentals of Melbourne City's football over the first 2 games have looked solid and promising, and I reckon a person who was neutral, and who didn't have the baggage of seeing the team play Melbourne Heart's 4 seasons, would acknowledge that the team is playing good attacking football, and has a good outlook. The SBS Extra Time show last night, for example, provided just that summary of Melbourne City. It just seems to be Melbourne Heart supporters who are anxious that this season will mimic the 2010-11 season.

Another thing is that the outcomes of games, and the mentality the team plays with, look much improved on previous seasons. There is no doubt that Melbourne Heart would have lost both the Round 1 match against Sydney, and yesterday's Round 2 match. The team is turning matches that it would have previously have lost into draws. And I believe that matches that the team would have previously have drawn will steadily become wins. The team will improve more, will start taking the lead more often and the wins will come.

 

- Remember as well that Adelaide United under Gombau lost 5 and drew 3 of its first 9 matches last season. And for all the Gombau fanfare his team finished 6th. Implementing a solid structure and playing style based on attacking football is hard, and always takes a little time (especially when contrasted with the largely defensive and counterattacking football that the Jets played, as it is harder to create than destroy). And with that in mind, its my judgement that the attacking football the team is playing is coming along quite well, and I believe more will be shown in upcoming rounds.

 

- The burden of proof is on those making the case. Why should the coach be sacked? There is something to the question 'what it is about JvS(edition 3) that gives them confidence that he will be any better than JvS(editions 1 and 2), because I just cannot see it', and it is that the team has played very little football: 2 games. There has been very little to see, period, good or bad. Nonetheless, I think the initial signs are good, and believe there is no strong and decisive arguments that prove that the team and the coach are fated to have a bad season.

 

 

A final point is that I believe the team isn't far off. In my judgement the fundamentals are solid, and if there's slight improvement, for example a better player in LB and an in form forward/attacker (e.g. an in form David Williams), then I believe there will be a lot of reward and successful matches for Melbourne City. There are weaknesses that do hurt, but at the same time I believe the team is not far off, and things will come together. 

Edited October 20, 2014 by HeartMillsy29

[hyperfuzz]

SBS's pre-season preview also pointed to WSW as a new team that clicked straight away because they were premiers in the first first season... didn't acknowledge that they actually had one point from the first three games, and something like ten points from the first nine games, if i remember.

[n i k o]

Sacking after round 2 and two draws? Typical knee jerk supporter response. Actually surprised at some people on here who otherwise are reasonable in what they say.

However that doesn't mean the tactics can't be questioned. I for one questioned our style of play throughout the first 70 minutes, and had we taken our chances early on would still question why we weren't playing directly. What I want to know is why jvs is trying to play indirect football with overlapping wingers and fullbacks when playing the ball on the wing is playing our weakest players in the team? I still stand by it that Hoffman is defensively sound and doesn't cost us goals or games. There is a player like him in every starting eleven. Ramsey, different story. But why are we playing with overlapping fullbacks when going forward they would be our weakest players?

I still think jvs is a very knowledgable coach, but I hope he isn't stuck in his ways where he can't adapt. I don't believe it's a lack of knowledge, I'm sure jvs saw we looked far more dangerous playing directly. I remember them saying that Gombau at Adelaide also had to adapt his game as he saw it wasn't going to work as well as he hoped. All in all I wasn't entirely happy with our style of play for the majority of the game. Taking into account we were chasing the game in the last 15 minutes, so we were pressing a lot more, I still believe that more direct approach is how we should be playing, or how I would like us to play.

If we hadn't seen the mostly garbage he produced in s1, 2 and the tail end of last season I would agree with you. However, we have seen it all before and we've also heard every excuse under the sun.

No where to hide this season. Get the team playing exciting, winning football or fuck off.

We aren't exactly playing losing football after two rounds and two draws, although I'm not entirely happy with the style of play jvs is incorporating, jvs definitely should get more than two rounds into a season. By the way I've got no qualms with jvs being moved on if he's not delivering after the adequate time frame.

[KSK_47]

 By the way I've got no qualms with jvs being moved on if he's not delivering after the adequate time frame.

 

 

Sorry, that may have come across wrong. I agree that its too early to give him the arse. I was just saying that I dont think people getting on his back this early on is a typical knee jerk response because he has had way more than 2 rounds to prove himself

Edited October 20, 2014 by KSK_47

[loriente]

 

I'm pressed for time, so I'll just say:

 

- First of all I think there are some thoughtful and understandable questions being put forward about the team and about JVS. However, as I've said, I firmly believe that 2 games and 2 draws into the season that there is no case for sacking the coaching staff, and that the heavily negative responsibles are far too knee-jerk, and are based on too little data (that is, a mere 2 games of football). 

 

- Singling out Behich and Dugandzic from last season's 24 players is to use 2 unrepresentative players of last season's squad's quality. Half of last season's squad got axed, and they had to be axed, and some were even shown the door before the season finished: Mifsud, Mebrahtu, Macallister. As for the Heart players that remain, Redmayne, Velaphi, Hoffman, Ramsay, Kalmar, Dugandzic and Williams in particular all aren't adding enough to the team currently, and I believe that the Heart players who comprise the current squad are ultimately weighing the team down. Some of them will come good this season (for example, I'm still optimistic about Dugandzic), but I think most Heart players will depart the club over the next year or two. So all up the squad is fundamentally imbalanced, with half a top team (consisting of the new signings) and half a team of players with dubious quality, and who seem truly scarred by the chronic underachievement of the Melbourne Heart seasons, and these players (in particular in the well known areas of LB, RB and GK) will hold the team back from being a top A-League team this season.

 

- The fundamentals of Melbourne City's football over the first 2 games have looked solid and promising, and I reckon a person who was neutral, and who didn't have the baggage of seeing the team play Melbourne Heart's 4 seasons, would acknowledge that the team is playing good attacking football, and has a good outlook. The SBS Extra Time show last night, for example, provided just that summary of Melbourne City. It just seems to be Melbourne Heart supporters who are anxious that this season will mimic the 2010-11 season.

Another thing is that the outcomes of games, and the mentality the team plays with, look much improved on previous seasons. There is no doubt that Melbourne Heart would have lost both the Round 1 match against Sydney, and yesterday's Round 2 match. The team is turning matches that it would have previously have lost into draws. And I believe that matches that the team would have previously have drawn will steadily become wins. The team will improve more, will start taking the lead more often and the wins will come.

 

- Remember as well that Adelaide United under Gombau lost 5 and drew 3 of its first 9 matches last season. And for all the Gombau fanfare his team finished 6th. Implementing a solid structure and playing style based on attacking football is hard, and always takes a little time (especially when contrasted with the largely defensive and counterattacking football that the Jets played, as it is harder to create than destroy). And with that in mind, its my judgement that the attacking football the team is playing is coming along quite well, and I believe more will be shown in upcoming rounds.

 

- The burden of proof is on those making the case. Why should the coach be sacked? There is something to the question 'what it is about JvS(edition 3) that gives them confidence that he will be any better than JvS(editions 1 and 2), because I just cannot see it', and it is that the team has played very little football: 2 games. There has been very little to see, period, good or bad. Nonetheless, I think the initial signs are good, and believe there is no strong and decisive arguments that prove that the team and the coach are fated to have a bad season.

 

 

A final point is that I believe the team isn't far off. In my judgement the fundamentals are solid, and if there's slight improvement, for example a better player in LB and an in form forward/attacker (e.g. an in form David Williams), then I believe there will be a lot of reward and successful matches for Melbourne City. There are weaknesses that do hurt, but at the same time I believe the team is not far off, and things will come together. 

 

Pressed for time, writes essay.

 

Pretty spot on though, I will say.

Especially liked the 'harder to create than destroy', that is some philosophical shit man.

[jw1739]

 

 By the way I've got no qualms with jvs being moved on if he's not delivering after the adequate time frame.

 

 

Sorry, that may have come across wrong. I agree that its too early to give him the arse. I was just saying that I dont think people getting on his back this early on is a typical knee jerk response because he has had way more than 2 rounds to prove himself

 

I just add to this that rather than cherrypick various periods in a coach's tenure, it's better to look at the overall record. This can be seen on Ultimate A-League under "Managers", and if you go there and look at JvS' record over the 75 A-League matches he has coached you will see that he has a win record of just 30.67% and is a long way down the list of "Most Successful Managers."

[KSK_47]

He had a very similar % during his time in Mexico too

[marn11]

Barring a failure to reach the top 6, JVS shouldn't and won't be sacked this year. 

 

It takes longer than one off-season to bring in the players he wants and to have the side playing as a cohesive unit capable of playing fluent attacking football. Especially when you consider where we are coming from. 

 

He has already brought in key players that he will be able to build around (Paartalu, Mooy, Koren) who will combine with some technical young guys (Chapman, Marino, Mauk, Gooch, Archibald, Millar etc) for years to come. We should lose every VISA player except for Koren after this season, so he will again have the opportunity to strengthen with better internationals.

 

I'm by no means saying I'm a JVS fan, but I think he deserves time and stability. 

[Alexxxandro]

I just find it funny that people talk about JVS as though this is his first stint in the A-League. 

 

And that it's the players fault except when they go on winning streaks- then the it's all because of JVS's genius. 

 

So he was rehired when Heart when on a winning streak last season but what few players are left from that squad should not be expected to win games now...

 

Well I won't be surprised it City sneak into the top six this year and all the JVS supporters say "just see what he does next season with a top squad!".  

 

And then City come fifth...

 

My fear isn't that JVS is a terrible coach but that he's a mediocre one.

[Kiro Kompiro]

The scary thing is that Mirabella (ex-Board member) was right.

[Heart_fan]

The scary thing is that Mirabella (ex-Board member) was right.

 

I think that this is unfair to say.

 

During JVS' time here previously he developed many youth players, whilst still getting some decent results along the way.

 

When I look at WSW, Popa has done next to no youth player development in his time there, relying solely on older players to get results.That part luckily paid off, but the glaring omsission of any real youth talent consistently getting game time is not a great reflection on him.

 

Overall, we need to find the balance, but so far this year players like Chapman and Garrucio have been sick or injured, whilst a key creaive player has yet to play (Koren). Losing Villa for a few weeks (possibilty never to return?) opens up a spot for Marino though if he can take his chance.