Melbourne City V CCM Sunday 7th of September

[Shahanga]

 

I enjoyed the way we played, a lot of positives. We look far better than the mariners at this stage of pre season with still a month to go

rather play like shit and win

 

In the season proper, OK.  In a meaningless friendly, no.

 

Obviously i want to see us win games, but at present we need to be getting our style of play sorted for the season to come.  That's more important than say fluking a goal or 2.

[n i k o]

"Pessimists" are what delusionists call realists.

I just think that it'll take longer than we expect.

Agree with that

[KSK_47]

 

 

I garuntee you that I myself looking at the positives won't really affect the outcome of the team this season.

You are a part of the culture of the club. As fans we may find that by demanding more we may just get it. Yeah I am part of club culture. I praise good performances when they're deserved and expect mistakes are addressed and improved upon. To me this seems like a pretty good culture to bring to the club as a supporter. But my point is there's no reason why the the things we are doing right can't be acknowledged.

 

 

I'm not saying they cant be acknowledged. I just find it odd that some people gave a glowing report on todays match especially when its the same mistakes that we have seemed to be dealing with since day 1, which to me suggests they are not being addressed and improved on

[n i k o]

Let's put it in perspective regarding the match today. The missed chances came about from having inexperienced players in front of goal. That is being addressed through villa and potentially Kennedy. The penalty that we gave away came about from us having an average left back in Ramsey. We have one more visa signing and jvs has said that it will be a defensive signing, could be left back. So it appears that we do have solutions to the areas we need give attention to.

[KSK_47]

Let's put it in perspective regarding the match today. The missed chances came about from having inexperienced players in front of goal. That is being addressed through villa and potentially Kennedy. The penalty that we gave away came about from us having an average left back in Ramsey. We have one more visa signing and jvs has said that it will be a defensive signing, could be left back. So it appears that we do have solutions to the areas we need give attention to.

 

Villa is a loan for publicity. And the rest is stuff that we always say. Not saying we are doomed, just saying it is all a bit familiar (with the exception of loaning a world class striker for 10 games) and bothers me. If I am wrong- great! But the blind optimism is something that has a very familiar ring to it also. 

[kingofhearts]

Theres still so many holes in our list (LB, RB, Goalkeeper, striker, DM) that any performance in the pre-season i'm taking with a grain of salt. I can't judge the team seriously until at least two of those positions have been addressed or i at least know what the final make-up of the team is.

Edited September 7, 2014 by kingofhearts

[Attack11]

I watched the first half only of this game... and to go in at 0-0 is border line ridicules..

 

If you but this game in to context the CCM have not played nearly as many pre-season games as we have. You could tell in the first have that we were sharper, fitter, and we completely dominated the first 45min. i'm sure that the stats will have our ball possession somewhere around 75%. It looked like the CCM players were chasing shadows and couldn't get anywhere near our players. Yet we failed to score, we failed to create more then 2 clear cut chances. We were at full strength with the exception of Wilo who didn't play.

 

In fairness and without going completely over board, we should have finished the half 2-0 up

 

My Concern for the season ahead is we still do not have the finish product in our front 3rd. Koren was quite and not what is expected from a Marquee player, Mooy completely dominated our midfield. When Villa leaves after the 10 games, we will again fail to score goals....

 

The biggest call JVS has made is to keep R. Wielaert and not sign a recognised striker.

[n i k o]

R weilaert was contracted for this season before jvs was manager, he would have had to be paid out taking money out of the salary cap.

[jw1739]

Let's put it in perspective regarding the match today. The missed chances came about from having inexperienced players in front of goal. That is being addressed through villa and potentially Kennedy. The penalty that we gave away came about from us having an average left back in Ramsey. We have one more visa signing and jvs has said that it will be a defensive signing, could be left back. So it appears that we do have solutions to the areas we need give attention to.

Yes, indeed, let's put it into perspective. It was our best chance yet at putting our CCM bogey to rest once and for all, and doing significant psychological damage to CCM's season. They were completely under-prepared having played only two matches before yesterday. We had somewhere around 60-75% possession during the first half - in the old terminology "all over them like a rash" - but our failure to create clear-cut chances meant that instead of going to the break at (conservatively) 2-0 up we went in on level terms. After that it was the same old Melbourne Heart. 1-0 up with a nicely-worked goal and then instead of consolidating from there we cough up a simple equalizer. How many times have we done that before? We did that against CCM in the "wet" game a couple of seasons ago, and again last season when we coughed up a two-goal lead with two penalties.

 

You simply cannot claim that we had inexperienced players in front of goal. The only inexperienced players we had on the field in that first half were Marino and Archibald. And to infer that everything will be all right once we have Villa, Kennedy, and our fifth visa player is simply trotting out the usual hypothetical  "but, if, when..." line used for the past four seasons. Villa is on holiday somewhere, and the other two are not even on our books.

 

Of course it was a pre-season game and therefore the result doesn't matter in that sense, but I contend that instead of doing psychological damage to CCM by thrashing them we reinforced our own frailties by the way we played and our failure to turn possession into goals. I see this as the significance of this match. To think that somehow in early October we will throw a magic switch and everything will suddenly come together is delusional.

Edited September 8, 2014 by jw1739

[kingofhearts]

Was this our last pre-season game? Or do we have another chance to break our pre-season duck this year?

[Dylan]

Was this our last pre-season game? Or do we have another chance to break our pre-season duck this year?

They are probably going to organise a few. I highly doubt that they would go 5 weeks without another game.

On the defensive issues. We have three young defenders in archibald, king, chapman and throw in garuccio that will be developed this season. I wouldn't be suprised seeing the current defensive lineup changed by mid season so I don't think we are so much in a defensive black hole as people think..

Still think this last DM visa signing is critical. If we find the right player I think that our midfield would be very strong and even run pretty deep, and that if you have a strong midfield you're almost two thirds there in having a successful side.

[belaguttman]

It seems that we are stuck somewhere above NPL standard and well below the top half of HAL standard. We've been there the whole time. There are three things that need to change to lift us:

 

converting more of our numerous chances - nothing has changed in 4.5 seasons, I expect Villa will temporarily help with this

no lapses in concentration - so far we have conceded against AU in the first 3 minutes and immediately after scoring against CCM, and 2 penalties in 3 minutes against SFC

winning away from home - all of our pre-season games have been away from home as was our FFA game, the only teams that we can consistently beat are NPL teams

[Attack11]

Vs Sydney FC 1-3 (FFA cup game)

 

VS Adelaide 0-1 (Pre-season friendly)

 

VS CCM 1-1 (Pre-season friendly)

 

Playing against A-league teams and we have scored a grand total of 2 goals in 3 games..

CFG promised entertaining, free flowing football with goals....

 

Mr. JVS you better get your shit together and get this team scoring goals or you will be out the door before Christmas...

[jw1739]

Vs Sydney FC 1-3 (FFA cup game)

 

VS Adelaide 0-1 (Pre-season friendly)

 

VS CCM 1-1 (Pre-season friendly)

 

Playing against A-league teams and we have scored a grand total of 2 goals in 3 games..

CFG promised entertaining, free flowing football with goals....

 

Mr. JVS you better get your shit together and get this team scoring goals or you will be out the door before Christmas...

...and conceded three penalties.

[n i k o]

Let's put it in perspective regarding the match today. The missed chances came about from having inexperienced players in front of goal. That is being addressed through villa and potentially Kennedy. The penalty that we gave away came about from us having an average left back in Ramsey. We have one more visa signing and jvs has said that it will be a defensive signing, could be left back. So it appears that we do have solutions to the areas we need give attention to.

Yes, indeed, let's put it into perspective. It was our best chance yet at putting our CCM bogey to rest once and for all, and doing significant psychological damage to CCM's season. They were completely under-prepared having played only two matches before yesterday. We had somewhere around 60-75% possession during the first half - in the old terminology "all over them like a rash" - but our failure to create clear-cut chances meant that instead of going to the break at (conservatively) 2-0 up we went in on level terms. After that it was the same old Melbourne Heart. 1-0 up with a nicely-worked goal and then instead of consolidating from there we cough up a simple equalizer. How many times have we done that before? We did that against CCM in the "wet" game a couple of seasons ago, and again last season when we coughed up a two-goal lead with two penalties.

 

You simply cannot claim that we had inexperienced players in front of goal. The only inexperienced players we had on the field in that first half were Marino and Archibald. And to infer that everything will be all right once we have Villa, Kennedy, and our fifth visa player is simply trotting out the usual hypothetical  "but, if, when..." line used for the past four seasons. Villa is on holiday somewhere, and the other two are not even on our books.

 

Of course it was a pre-season game and therefore the result doesn't matter in that sense, but I contend that instead of doing psychological damage to CCM by thrashing them we reinforced our own frailties by the way we played and our failure to turn possession into goals. I see this as the significance of this match. To think that somehow in early October we will throw a magic switch and everything will suddenly come together is delusional.

My point was we don't have a proven goal scorer in front of goal at the moment. If we don't sign someone after villa leaves, provided he actually plays and is fit, then I will be concerned. For now we can only wait and see if we sign someone after he goes.

I agree we should have buried them early on, but can you really fault how we pressured them and caused them to turn over the ball, how we linked up through our midfield and our fast pace of play. You can't ask for more from this aspect of our play, especially from our first half. But in saying that I'm aware of all those things that you mention, our lack of wins against aleague opposition, copping basic goals after scoring etc. yes these things are problems but I'm confident that these are things that will be sorted. I'm not expecting us to win the title this season, but I don't think it will be as bad as people are saying it's going to be.

[Dylan]

Vs Sydney FC 1-3 (FFA cup game)

VS Adelaide 0-1 (Pre-season friendly)

VS CCM 1-1 (Pre-season friendly)

Playing against A-league teams and we have scored a grand total of 2 goals in 3 games..

CFG promised entertaining, free flowing football with goals....

Mr. JVS you better get your shit together and get this team scoring goals or you will be out the door before Christmas...

...and conceded three penalties.

I have defended Wielaert in the past but two of those were his mistakes in almost identical situations. That's says to me his reaction times are getting slower and at his age it's only going to become worse.

The Hoffman one I think it's a bit unfair to blame him as gameiro was clearly offside and he couldn't just let him run in and shoot.

[n i k o]

Weialert is definitely way too slow, can't wait till his contract expires along with Ramsey. Or play Archibald there instead I thought he did quite well yesterday.

[billyheart]

Did Koren show much? Looked the least influential midfielder from the small amount I saw

[Attack11]

absolutely agree with you Niko'.. our style of play was clearly superior to CCM, I didn't see our game against Adelaide but from all reports we out played them too. our pressing game is really impressive and it clearly stood out in yesterdays game in particular the first half. our transition from defence to Mid-field and then out wide to our quick wingers was also very good. I am comfortable in saying that our style of play will trouble a lot of A-league teams this season, we will play fast football with high intensity pressure however, with that style you need to be able to finish off teams or at least make the other team chase the game which in turn opens them up as they begin to take more risks.

 

most teams this season, against us will sit back and absorb the pressure and hit us on the counter. JVS is employing a very taxing style of play on the players and there is no way the boys can press a team for 90mins... you can do that for about 60min maybe 70min and then you will die off. Newcastle, Sydney FC, CCM, Wellington, and WSW will sit back.

[Dylan]

Did Koren show much? Looked the least influential midfielder from the small amount I saw

Did nothing other than two willo esque sky shots

[Tonyboozeadams]

It's a shame about wielart, has great positioning and can read the game really well. He is just way too slow these days. If we had a mobile cb next to him it would work well, but paddy isn't getting any younger or fitter unfortunately. I expect Archibald to take one of those cb spots by the halfway point of the season

[Tonyboozeadams]

Probably wielart's

[n i k o]

So apparently it was Weialaert that gave the penalty away. Not the first penalty he has given away.

[Murfy1]

Melbourne City draws 1-1 with Central Coast Mariners to continue pre-season winless drought

 

SEPTEMBER 07, 2014 

 

 

MELBOURNE City is still yet to win a pre-season game against A-League opposition in its five-year history, but veteran defender Patrick Kisnorbo says that’s no cause for concern heading in to the new season.

 

City drew 1-1 with Central Coast at Oakes Oval in Lismore on Sunday, which comes on the back of a 1-0 friendly loss to Adelaide last month and a 3-1 extra time defeat at the hands of Sydney in the FFA Cup’s Round of 32.

 

City took the lead in the 56th minute when Rob Wielaert smashed home a well-worked free kick routine, but handed back its advantage a minute later when Malick Mane converted a penalty after Adrian Caceres was brought down in the box.

 

Despite the result, Kisnorbo, who was captain for the day, said coach John van ‘t Schip was positive in his appraisal of the performance.

 

“I think in the first half we dominated quite clearly, but unfortunately it just didn’t show on the scoreboard,” Kisnorbo said.

 

“We had a great set piece which we capitalised on, but then we conceded a dubious penalty.

 

“Overall though I thought we did extremely well. We have set things that we have to concentrate on, targets as well, and I think we met them today.”

 

City, and in its former guise as Melbourne Heart, has played 13 pre-season games against fellow A-League teams for nine losses and four draws.

 

But Kisnorbo said his experience has taught him that friendly results count for little when the season proper kicks off.

 

“I don’t think Manchester City won a pre-season game but then they started the actual season with two wins in a row,” he said.

 

“I think for us it’s just about working on what we want to do. Pre-season is there to eliminate your mistakes and errors as well.

 

“We haven’t won against A-League opposition, but we’re not reading too much in to that really, we’re just concentrating on doing what we want to do and how effective we can be.”

 

http://www.heraldsun.com.au/sport/football/melbourne-city-draws-11-with-central-coast-mariners-to-continue-preseason-winless-drought/story-fnk6rlg0-1227050627557

[moops]

I missed this game sadly, but from comments above it sounds more positive. Our goals seem to be coming mostly from set pieces, maybe JVS is doing a lot of training in this department? As many goals are scored via set piece and we did concede a lot last year.

[Murfy1]

It would have been good to get one over CCM, who IMO are a different team under Moss and will continue to weaken from the Graham Arnold CCM golden years of a few years ago. And as a Melbourne Heart supporter, our pre-season record against A-League opposition truly sucks.

 

But at the end of the day pre-season isn't that important, and a team can win all their pre-season games and then play poorly when the season rolls around, like Man U this season, and a team can play poorly in pre-season and still become league champions, like Man City last season. At the end of the day pre-season is just preparation for the season, and it's about getting players fit and giving fringe players a run (as Marino, Retre and Archibald may well be during the season). 

 

 

I agree that our attack let us down yesterday, and it will be much better when we have all our players available. Our attack yesterday relied on teenager and newboy Marc Marino, James Brown and Wade Dekker (T). We didn't even have David Williams in the team, yet alone David bloody Villa or Joshua Kennedy. With 2 or so of those players in our team our attack will be transformed. We did have inexperienced players in front of goal, and although it's annoying that the 3 players above aren't currently training week in week out with the team, one can't downplay that our attack will be massively better with those strikers on board. We saw last season how much it can weaken a team when a poor striker like Mifsud leads the line, and next season we'll see how true the converse is. That is, how much better a team is with a good striker. There's a reason why strikers get paid the most money, and we'll be reminded of their value next season.

 

That was really the only weakness in the team yesterday. Our RB Archibald had a solid game, and you can't chalk up much weaknesses to yesterday's LB Ramsay going off yesterday's performance. I'm still really eager to see the team strengthen in the LB position, but some have almost said that'll we'll lose the league just because we don't have the league's best LB, and yesterday showed that even if 1 position isn't ideal, like with our LB, a team can still do very well.

And Garuccio was away with the Australian U19s team. There is still a very real chance that Garuccio will always be played over Ramsay at LB, like he was last season under JVS. And still there is ample opportunity for the team to sign another LB before the season starts, despite the fact that yesterday's match showed that being suspect in 1 position like LB isn't the end of the world.

 

And on the goals we've conceded, they don't really suggest any systemic problem with our defending. We've conceded 1 goalkeeping howler, 1 goal after being caught napping at the start of a match and 3 pens (1 to Hoff, and maybe 2 to Wielaert [although yesterday's pen, which was claimed to be dubious, we don't really know anything about). It's not liked we've been killed in our LB position or anything. Perhaps Wielaert's lack of speed is a concern, but with Chapman and Archibald in the team I reckon that can be fixed if need be.

 

 

absolutely agree with you Niko'.. our style of play was clearly superior to CCM, I didn't see our game against Adelaide but from all reports we out played them too. our pressing game is really impressive and it clearly stood out in yesterdays game in particular the first half. our transition from defence to Mid-field and then out wide to our quick wingers was also very good. I am comfortable in saying that our style of play will trouble a lot of A-league teams this season, we will play fast football with high intensity pressure however, with that style you need to be able to finish off teams or at least make the other team chase the game which in turn opens them up as they begin to take more risks.

 

most teams this season, against us will sit back and absorb the pressure and hit us on the counter. JVS is employing a very taxing style of play on the players and there is no way the boys can press a team for 90mins... you can do that for about 60min maybe 70min and then you will die off. Newcastle, Sydney FC, CCM, Wellington, and WSW will sit back.

 

 

I actually agree with pretty much all of this. Our style of play, with it's passing, possession and pressing, it looking pretty good and superior to that of other teams. And this is despite the fact that Koren is yet to settle into the team, and we are missing important players up front.  

 

It's pretty much always true that teams need to take chances and finish other teams off. We took the lead against CCM, but unfortunately the team failed to hold the lead for a respectable amount of time to make the opposition chase the game, which I agree would have made them take more risks and open up and would have increased our chances of winning.

 

Hopefully most teams do sit back against us and try to counter. That's what we want, and it should give us the dynamic we saw in the first half against CCM. And although it's maybe true that teams can only effectively press for roughly 60 to 70 minutes (although if you sub and replace our forwards you can in theory press for longer), that should be enough time for Melbourne City to take the lead, and then the opposition will chase the game and will take more risks and will open up. And IMO I think only CCM, WSW and maybe Newcastle will try to sit back and stubbornly defend for a whole match. But still, Melbourne City should learn how to break down stubborn defences, especially if the team sticks to the same style of football for long enough.

 

And all the above doesn't factor in the team signing up another Visa player (unless that Visa player is a LB). The team could still sign another Visa player, maybe a DM, and help the team strengthen even more so.

 

 

So on the above evidence I can see things coming together pretty well by the start of the season, although the final few additions to the squad need to be good to ensure the team goes very well this season. I don't buy the "nothing has changed in 4.5 seasons" and "we're NPL standard because of our pre-season history" lines. WSW were also winless against A-League opposition in the 2012-13 pre-season, and they finished 1st in the 2012-13 season. So there's just too many inconvenient facts for the doomsayers who suggest next season is a write-off, with the team bound to finish in bottom half of the table ignominy. It remains to be seen just how well the team will go next season, and the squad needs its final additions to join up with the team before we can be sure, but there's no reason right now to dismiss the team having a respectably successful 2014-15 season.

Edited September 8, 2014 by Murfy1

[belaguttman]

Murph what I'm saying is that football is a simple game really, you have to do 2 things: score goals and stoop the other team scoring goals. By the end of the game you have to score more than you concede. The rest is all means to achieve those requirements. These are the areas that we are still struggling in, our general game play has improved, our structure has improved, our pressing has improved but we have a poor conversion rate and defend poorly

[Ray]

Long time lurker. First time poster.

 

Take aways from this game where we need to improve in my opinion:

 

1. Get some decent crosses in

2.  Mooys a great player, but gee some of his free kicks are poor. Yes he gets a few in good places, but he needs to get some elevation on some of his free kicks or corners. He needs a higher conversion rate to be a really good set-piece taker.

3. Are there any strikers in the team?

4. Mass is a nice guy, but please don't attempt to shoot.

Edited September 8, 2014 by Ray

[NewConvert]

Murph what I'm saying is that football is a simple game really, you have to do 2 things: score goals and stoop the other team scoring goals. By the end of the game you have to score more than you concede. The rest is all means to achieve those requirements. These are the areas that we are still struggling in, our general game play has improved, our structure has improved, our pressing has improved but we have a poor conversion rate and defend poorly

That sounds like a variation on Allan Jeans "its a simple game really, either you have the ball, they have the ball or its in dispute".

[Kiro Kompiro]

Question about the high pressing game.  How well will this work playing at 3.00 pm on a Sunday in December and January and Feb?

[Jovan]

At 3:28pm a lot of tounges hanging out, and don't forget about the head bobbles.

Seriously a high tempo pressing game can only be effective in periods of games, a more conservative plan b and plan c need to be ready to go. Admire the philosophy but in practice very few teams have been succesful at it for any length of time. What's looking promising is the possession so far, just need to tweak it to be a little more direct and incisive.