Moraiwe Posted April 11, 2015 Report Share Posted April 11, 2015 Oh give it a rest Tesla. By that logic, any foul taints a game and thus nothing should be considered a foul. Srapping the cap is not the cure-all to the A-League's problems you seem to think it is. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tesla Posted April 11, 2015 Report Share Posted April 11, 2015 Oh give it a rest Tesla. By that logic, any foul taints a game and thus nothing should be considered a foul. Srapping the cap is not the cure-all to the A-League's problems you seem to think it is.Would love for you to explain how exactly 'any foul taints a game and thus nothing should be considered a foul' is the same logic as what I've said? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moraiwe Posted April 11, 2015 Report Share Posted April 11, 2015 You're right, it's not exactly what you said. I think I misread it at first. It seemed like you were saying that because Perth breached the salary cap the season was tainted, and thus we were better off without the cap and having taint-free seasons. Apologies if I got that wrong. Still think you're wrong about the cap needing to go, though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tesla Posted April 12, 2015 Report Share Posted April 12, 2015 Tinkler making some good points today in the press, firstly touching on what I said:"At the end of the season, you have to be at $2.55 million and you can't be over that. How the call can be made right now, rather than at the end of the season, I am not so sure.In regard to the severity of the punishment:"I feel for Tony Sage and Perth Glory ... I am not close to the details but I am not sure if the penalty fits the crime."It's certainly much more than anything imposed by the FFA previously (Sydney FC was stripped of three points and fined $129,000 in 2006 for cap breaches).And some other points:"If they wanted to treat Perth so harshly, why then only drop them to seventh and not last?"It seems not to be okay to cheat on the top six teams but it is okay to cheat on the bottom three teams. I don't understand the fairness in that."Glory have beaten us twice in the A-League and knocked us out of FFA Cup and I feel we are getting treated differently (from the top six clubs)."If FFA feels so strongly about what Glory have done, well where's our six points?"Placing them in seventh has disadvantaged the Jets, the Wanderers and the Mariners."http://theworldgame.sbs.com.au/article/2015/04/11/tinkler-backs-sages-quest-quash-glorys-finals-ban Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
n i k o Posted April 12, 2015 Report Share Posted April 12, 2015 Placing them in seventh has disadvantaged the Jets, the Wanderers and the Mariners." I disagree with this. Their position on the table hasn't altered whatsoever. By the end of the season none of those teams had any chance of taking seventh position as it would have been taken by either us or Brisbane. Besides some pride being restored had Perth been placed at the bottom of the ladder there's no other advantages for those other teams. I agree with a lot of the other points made though. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
belaguttman Posted April 12, 2015 Report Share Posted April 12, 2015 Tinker is also wrong according to Foxsport discussion, you have to be compliant with the cap throughout the year not just by the end of the season. Otherwise you could pay players well over the cap and get them to temporarily refund the extra payments in the last week of the season and then reimburse them after the season is complete Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jw1739 Posted April 12, 2015 Report Share Posted April 12, 2015 Tinker is also wrong according to Foxsport discussion, you have to be compliant with the cap throughout the year not just by the end of the season. Otherwise you could pay players well over the cap and get them to temporarily refund the extra payments in the last week of the season and then reimburse them after the season is complete TBH, it wouldn't surprise me if your last point is in fact going on. How on earth is FFA to know about a third-party payment made to a player 18 months after his contract in the A-League is finished? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dylan Posted April 12, 2015 Author Report Share Posted April 12, 2015 Tinker is also wrong according to Foxsport discussion, you have to be compliant with the cap throughout the year not just by the end of the season. Otherwise you could pay players well over the cap and get them to temporarily refund the extra payments in the last week of the season and then reimburse them after the season is completeits this attention to detail to why he is a successful business man and owns all those race horses,stables and football teams Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jw1739 Posted April 12, 2015 Report Share Posted April 12, 2015 Placing them in seventh has disadvantaged the Jets, the Wanderers and the Mariners." I disagree with this. Their position on the table hasn't altered whatsoever. By the end of the season none of those teams had any chance of taking seventh position as it would have been taken by either us or Brisbane. Besides some pride being restored had Perth been placed at the bottom of the ladder there's no other advantages for those other teams. I agree with a lot of the other points made though. I suspect that he is really suggesting that every match involving Perth should be declared null and void, and no points and no goals for and against awarded, and recalculate the table on that basis. I'm not going to bother to do that, but perhaps it would have made a difference to the final table. His point about Sydney in 2006 is hardly valid either. What happened at that time (second season of the league?) is hardly relevant in 2015. Overall FFA could not have let this situation go unpunished. Seems to me the option they have taken is fair in that it hits the club and the players involved in the rort. The alternative was a fine and to have Perth start next season with a negative points total, but that would punish a different group of players. The only thing I disagree with is having the team that would have finished seventh - and I say this whether it be City or Brisbane - play in the finals. I would have preferred only the top five to participate. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tesla Posted April 12, 2015 Report Share Posted April 12, 2015 His point about Sydney in 2006 is hardly valid either. What happened at that time (second season of the league?) is hardly relevant in 2015.What makes it irrelevant, just the amount of time? I think it's completely relevant as the only other serious breach of the salary cap. There hasnt been any significant rule change to make it irrelevant. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tesla Posted April 12, 2015 Report Share Posted April 12, 2015 Tinker is also wrong according to Foxsport discussion, you have to be compliant with the cap throughout the year not just by the end of the season. Otherwise you could pay players well over the cap and get them to temporarily refund the extra payments in the last week of the season and then reimburse them after the season is completeBut what does being 'compliant with the cap throughout the year' even mean? That you can't go over at any point? That's the issue for me, there are surely a fair bit of payments for this season to go still, so I dont see how you can say they are $X over, and if they are already $X over then they are going to be a lot more over by the end of the season, which I doubt is the case. Is it just a projection of how much they'll be over? I think I read somewhere that the FFA said the pay cuts that were taken and the loan that was cancelled are not going to be recognised and the FFA will treat it like that salary was still paid. Sounds to me like the FFA is making up rules as it goes along, once again, and it also looks to me like the FFA are targeting single owner clubs, once again. This whole thing doesn't add up if you ask me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
belaguttman Posted April 12, 2015 Report Share Posted April 12, 2015 I think that there's certainly a moral difference between a franchise that finds itself a few thousand dollars over the cap for a short time during the season because of an unexpected event and a franchise that deliberately sets out to obtain an unfair advantage by deliberately breaking the rules and going to some lengths to try and hide the fact from the FFA 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tesla Posted April 12, 2015 Report Share Posted April 12, 2015 Yes they definitely should be punished for the concealed payments, but if they were able to find themselves still within the cap even with those payments added, then they shouldn't also be punished for going over the cap. Seems to me like they were able to come within the cap limit by having players take pay cuts and ending the loan of Nicholls. But the FFA rejected that as they wanted to get them for being over the cap as well. At least that's what it looks like to me, I don't have all the facts. And if their only crime is hiding payments rather than actually bring over the cap, which means they had no sporting advantage, is it fair to take away 13 points or whatever the difference is currently to 7th place? That's an extraordinary points reduction. Fine the club, fine the players involved, maybe even take away a few points. But the current penalty is harsh, even if we will most likely benefit from it the most as I think Brisbane will finish above us. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
belaguttman Posted April 12, 2015 Report Share Posted April 12, 2015 They've had the use of those players all season, players that they may not have been able to sign within the cap and their on-field results reflect that. It's irrelevant that they unload some players at the end of the season unless they are happy to unload all those points as well. Its like an F1 car weighing 100kg under the minimum weight, talking wins throughout the season but then adding the weight in for scrutinising and saying that makes it OK as they were compliant in scrutineering 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KSK_47 Posted April 13, 2015 Report Share Posted April 13, 2015 Have apparently withdrawn their appeal in "the spirit of the game" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
malloy Posted April 13, 2015 Report Share Posted April 13, 2015 Have apparently withdrawn their appeal in "the spirit of the game" Finals here we come! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thrillhouse Posted April 13, 2015 Report Share Posted April 13, 2015 withdrawn a court appeal i think, can still appeal elsewhere Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HeartFc Posted April 13, 2015 Report Share Posted April 13, 2015 withdrawn a court appeal i think, can still appeal elsewhere Correct. And has been. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jw1739 Posted April 13, 2015 Report Share Posted April 13, 2015 How it was done. http://www.adelaidenow.com.au/sport/football/how-perth-glorys-arrogance-and-disregard-for-a-league-rules-led-to-a-salary-cap-rort-and-disgrace/story-fnk6pqha-1227301635352 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tesla Posted April 14, 2015 Report Share Posted April 14, 2015 (edited) I still think the penalty is too harsh and I think it should be a set number of points. But we all know the FFA is dodgy, biased and make things up as they go, so if you're breaking the rules you should know that you're at the mercy of the FFA's discretion. I kind of feel bad for Perth though, spending less than the previous season and spending less than other clubs but over the cap (or are they? Still not sure if it's more than hidden payments). But those are the rules. Edited April 14, 2015 by Tesla Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jw1739 Posted April 14, 2015 Report Share Posted April 14, 2015 (edited) I still think the penalty is too harsh and I think it should be a set number of points. But we all know the FFA is dodgy, biased and make things up as they go, so if you're breaking the rules you should know that you're at the mercy of the FFA's discretion. I kind of feel bad for Perth though, spending less than the previous season and spending less than other clubs but over the cap (or are they? Still not sure if it's more than hidden payments). But those are the rules. A set number of points is open to manipulation. You might as well put together a virtually unbeatable side by paying way over the cap, win the league by a mile, and still win it after the set number of points have been deducted. It seems to me the more that I read about this the more ways of paying outside the cap I can see, ways that FFA has no hope of detecting. I doubt that FFA will remove it yet, but Sage is not the wealthiest owner by a long way and if he's prepared to go outside the current limit then perhaps it's time to increase it by a meaningful amount. http://www.watoday.com.au/sport/soccer/perth-glory/perth-glory-nearly-got-away-with-aleague-salary-cap-breach-20150410-1mim0m.html Edited April 14, 2015 by jw1739 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thrillhouse Posted April 14, 2015 Report Share Posted April 14, 2015 thread title always reminds me of this - nsfw Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dylan Posted April 14, 2015 Author Report Share Posted April 14, 2015 (edited) perth dont have the class of steel panther. Edited April 14, 2015 by Dylan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shahanga Posted April 14, 2015 Report Share Posted April 14, 2015 It seems FFA don't even audit the clubs regularly. If one of the foreign owned clubs made payments from O/s to an o/s bank account how could they trace it? Only owners integrity stopping this happening in my book. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jw1739 Posted April 14, 2015 Report Share Posted April 14, 2015 It seems FFA don't even audit the clubs regularly. If one of the foreign owned clubs made payments from O/s to an o/s bank account how could they trace it? Only owners integrity stopping this happening in my book. Perth were dobbed in by a disgruntled former employee. No prizes for guessing who that might have been. You're quite right. Third-party to third-party payments are impossible to detect by legal means. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jw1739 Posted April 15, 2015 Report Share Posted April 15, 2015 http://www.watoday.com.au/sport/soccer/perth-glory/the-secret-payments-perth-glory-made-to-andy-keoghs-relatives-20150414-1mkzna.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KSK_47 Posted April 15, 2015 Report Share Posted April 15, 2015 Football Federation Australia continues to ratchet up the pressure on Perth Glory announcing its intention to slap the A-League outfit with a third Show Cause notice for alleged salary cap breaches this season. The third notice alleges the club failed to disclose reportable benefits and payments in excess of $100,000. This is in addition to failure to to disclose reportable benefits and payments to at least six players, and findings the club had been operating above the cap in the order of $400,000. Perth has been fined $269,000 and disqualified from taking part in the 2014/15 finals. The third notice will be issued to Perth Glory by Friday. http://www.fourfourtwo.com/au/news/ffa-alleges-further-cap-breaches-glory Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jw1739 Posted April 16, 2015 Report Share Posted April 16, 2015 (edited) Yesterday's hearing lasted almost 6 hours. The Disciplinary Committee is expected to hand down its decision today. http://www.footballaustralia.com.au/article/ffa-independent-disciplinary-committee-hearing/11efpk2l242111j48uwbbnlczv 6 hours? Wow, that's a long time to hear what I would have thought was an open and shut case regarding FFA's powers. There may yet be a few more twists and turns in this. For me the whole season has now been tainted by this affair. The outcome of a football competition should not be determined via a legal or quasi-legal process. Edited April 16, 2015 by jw1739 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tesla Posted April 16, 2015 Report Share Posted April 16, 2015 No salary cap, no problems. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
belaguttman Posted April 16, 2015 Report Share Posted April 16, 2015 No salary cap, no problems. No salary cap - different problems. No salary cap breaches - no problems Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tesla Posted April 16, 2015 Report Share Posted April 16, 2015 (edited) No salary cap - different problems.Debatable.But lets not because that's been done 100 times on this forum already. Edited April 16, 2015 by Tesla Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baka1 Posted April 16, 2015 Report Share Posted April 16, 2015 4 teams contending every year. Rest left for dead Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stewmac Posted April 16, 2015 Report Share Posted April 16, 2015 B like EPL then ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
True Until I die Posted April 16, 2015 Report Share Posted April 16, 2015 That should get the euro snobs out Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
belaguttman Posted April 16, 2015 Report Share Posted April 16, 2015 That should get the euro snobs out No, that's likely to get the Eurosnobs in, they usually support those top teams. Is that the sort of league that we want though? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
True Until I die Posted April 16, 2015 Report Share Posted April 16, 2015 That's what I meant sorry, that will get them out from their hiding and to the games Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dylan Posted April 16, 2015 Author Report Share Posted April 16, 2015 (edited) Edited April 16, 2015 by Dylan 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jw1739 Posted April 16, 2015 Report Share Posted April 16, 2015 Perth CEO Jason Brewer has resigned. http://www.skynews.com.au/news/top-stories/2015/04/16/perth-glory-ceo-resigns-amid-salary-cap-scandal.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dylan Posted April 16, 2015 Author Report Share Posted April 16, 2015 I should have got in after JW, cant take credit for it though. Found it on 442 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
haz Posted April 16, 2015 Report Share Posted April 16, 2015 I should have got in after JW, cant take credit for it though. Found it on 442 Got to love the IT Crowd Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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