Patrick Kisnorbo - most swol manager in the league

[thisphantomfortress]

17 hours ago, Luke said:

What's Kisnorbos experience in youth development ?

Jobs for the boys.

I'd like to hear @cadete's opinion of this statement

[Luke]

11 hours ago, KautoStar1 said:

Based on that daft logic, no one would ever be qualified for coaching. You have to start somewhere. 

John aloisi knows all about that.

Most people in world football regard youth development as a key cog in their operations 

[cadete]

1 minute ago, Luke said:

John aloisi knows all about that.

Most people in world football regard youth development as a key cog in their operations 

The world of football is very large, so obviously youth development for the world's richest clubs is going to be far more profitable for the club's own squad and in terms of making money in comparison to A-League Clubs who have a Salary Cap and Cap on the amount of players they can sign.

[n i k o]

Found this to be an interesting article and a topic that's regularly discussed amongst coaching circles. Seeing as Paddie is embarking on his coaching career I thought it has relevance seeing as he will be responsible for our up and coming youngsters. 

 

 

When Desmond Douglas was the England table tennis No 1 circa 1985, he was involved in a coaching session for young players. The lead coach asked the legendary player to explain to the teenagers the optimum use of the non-playing hand.

He was hoping that Douglas would talk about using the arm for balance, to provide poise and equilibrium, particularly when moved out of position. But Douglas looked confused. “The non-playing hand?” he said. “That’s what you use to toss the ball up on serve.”

 

 

I mention this because it shows that being an expert performer doesn’t make you an expert teacher. Just because you can do something brilliantly — whether playing table tennis or anything else — doesn’t mean you can explain to others how you do it, or how they can learn to do it.

 

In fact, teaching is often more difficult for true experts. The activity has become second nature. They can hit a moving ball, or play a concerto, or sail a boat without even thinking about it. They have practised for so long, have perfected the art to such a degree, that it can be delivered without conscious awareness. This is what psychologists call “expert induced amnesia”.

To coach, experts therefore have to do something very difficult: they have to step outside their own competence. They have to remember what it was like when they were learning a skill. They have to think — creatively and imaginatively — about how to inculcate it. It takes diligence, insight and a passion for pedagogy.

 

And this brings me to John Terry. As he comes towards the end of his playing career, there are siren calls to keep the centre half at Chelsea so that he can share his wisdom with the academy players. Why lose all that experience, it is said. Shouldn’t clubs retain their star players in leadership roles? Over the weekend, I heard at least three pundits arguing that he should be given a post with the youth team after he retires.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

But this is, to my mind, absurd. Why do we assume that former players can seamlessly move into coaching roles? Terry was, in his way, a terrific defender, but that doesn’t mean that he would be terrific at guiding and mentoring young players. This requires a different set of skills; skills that enable high-level performers to share their knowledge, to inspire players, to build teams, rather than merely being team members. The problem is that many top players assume that coaching is easy. They take their brilliance as performers as prima facie evidence of their ability to coach. This is precisely why so many are reluctant to do their badges: they think it is beneath them. As Steven Gerrard put it: “I know many, many players who reach the end of their careers and get handed a C licence pack which is about four inches thick and say, ‘Nah, I’m not doing that.’ ”

 

I sense this reluctance from Terry too. He has taken a few of the under-15 sessions for Chelsea, but has found it more difficult than he imagined. “Doing my badges is taking a lot longer than expected,” he said in March. “For me it’s kind of changed a little bit.” He also talked about wanting to be “a shirt-and-tie” gaffer. This, I think, hints at the same problem. He wants the trappings of management without going through the process of learning the skills of management.

 

I also find it baffling, when it comes to Terry’s playing career, why so many have argued that he should have been offered a contract extension by Chelsea. The club did belatedly put a one-year offer on the table on reduced wages, but the notion that they had a duty to keep faith with the defender because he has been at Chelsea for so long is nonsense. They are a football club, not a charity.

 

And it is not as if Terry has been entirely selfless in his commitment to Chelsea. The club have paid him extravagantly over many years. Indeed, when Manchester City came along with an offer in 2009, far from rebuffing the approach, Terry used it as leverage to secure an eye-watering increase in his pay to a reported £7.5 million per annum. I don’t blame Terry for maximising his remuneration. I just find it odd that some Chelsea fans think that the club owe him.

 

But let us return to coaching. There is no doubt that top players have a lot to offer — but only if they are prepared to learn a new, rather daunting skill set. Douglas eventually became a fine table tennis coach. After his playing career ended, he put in a huge amount of time to equip himself with the skills and insights he needed to nurture young players. He became a terrific tactical coach too.

 

The same lesson applies in football. Coaching young players is about building game intelligence, equipping young people with resilience, helping them to grow not just as footballers, but as human beings. The capacity to do these things, to inspire these changes, does not emerge as an inevitable by-product of a playing career, however superlative. That is why players such as Terry have to become students in the art of coaching if they want to become coaches capable of enhancing students.

 

 

Edited May 16, 2016 by n i k o

[Jovan]

Nice piece @n i k o. The only thing I would put to counter that is that being a great player automatically gives the coach credibility to the players that a lesser player has to earn in becoming a respected coach. Although obviously it will only last a few months and the actual knowledge and ability as a coach with inevitability be revealed. 

So a nobody as a player will find it much more difficult to become a coach than a great player.  

But so true is the correlation that being a great player doesn't mean you'll be a great or even decent coach.

Just saying.

[n i k o]

3 hours ago, Jovan said:

Nice piece @n i k o. The only thing I would put to counter that is that being a great player automatically gives the coach credibility to the players that a lesser player has to earn in becoming a respected coach. Although obviously it will only last a few months and the actual knowledge and ability as a coach with inevitability be revealed. 

So a nobody as a player will find it much more difficult to become a coach than a great player.  

But so true is the correlation that being a great player doesn't mean you'll be a great or even decent coach.

Just saying.

I agree with what you've said. However the article isn't about nobody's being better coaches. It's more the low/middle tier players that still had good professional careers and are known and respected amongst playing circles. 

[jw1739]

I'd say that the main point of the article is true of any teaching role. It's not necessarily the best or most-highly-qualified performer who is the best teacher for a particular pupil.

[playmaker]

Considering he was the captain and one of the most vocal players on the pitch, he must be a bad communicator right.

Geez, the absence of logic just amazes me.

He will be great one he learns his trade as he has respect and IS an effective communicator.

Leave the guy alone and stop shit talking.

[thisphantomfortress]

5 minutes ago, playmaker said:

Geez, the absence of logic just amazes me.

Now you know how we feel whenever you post 

[Embee]

45 minutes ago, thisphantomfortress said:

Now you know how we feel whenever you post 

THIS IS A QUALITY POST

[playmaker]

1 hour ago, thisphantomfortress said:

Now you know how we feel whenever you post 

 

45 minutes ago, Embee said:

THIS IS A QUALITY POST

If you weren't so stupid you would actually be funny.

[n i k o]

2 hours ago, playmaker said:

Considering he was the captain and one of the most vocal players on the pitch, he must be a bad communicator right.

Geez, the absence of logic just amazes me.

He will be great one he learns his trade as he has respect and IS an effective communicator.

Leave the guy alone and stop shit talking.

1. I don't think anyone said he was a bad communicator. I made the point he isn't the greatest communicator. There's a difference. 

2. Your posts prove this.

3. Define great. There is absolutely no garuntee of this either. 

4. No ones shit talking. Openly discussing the difficulties of becoming a good coach is a healthy discussion. No one has jumped the gun and said anything against him, in fact everyone's wished him the best and hopes he succeeds.

 

And just a final note, your post clearly proves what we've known all along. THIS IS A QUALITY POST. 

[thisphantomfortress]

54 minutes ago, playmaker said:

 

If you weren't so stupid you would actually be funny.

You think I'm stupid when I'm actually very intelligent ...

[playmaker]

So wait let me get this right

Patty is a natural born charismatic  leader who has 10 years of English football experience and captaining Leicester. He made 18 appearances as a socceroo. All of which he was acknowledged as being a leader of all clubs that he played for. And also player of the season at Leads (voted by the players). Captaining our club for 2 years and not only leading the team but leading by example. All those associated with any club he played for have labelled him a ruthless competitor, a natural team leader and if it wasn't for his injuries he would have led EPL clubs and the socceroos no doubt.

So all this with poor communication skills.

You guys are off your heads or just plain stupid.

Leadership, charisma, respect, resilience, effective communication, technical ability, experience at the highest level, I couldn't think of anyone more suited to lead our youth squad.

[n i k o]

22 minutes ago, playmaker said:

So all this with poor communication skills.

Again, are you daft? No one said he has poor communication skills.

Everything you said about Paddies playing career in your post shows why I posted the article. All those qualities gathered as a player don't garuntee being a good coach. Leading adults when playing a game is a different world to leading kids as a coach. For sure there can be some parallels but educating, developing, nurturing juniors is different. You make the assumption that a top leader on the pitch equals top leader on the sideline. Which is totally contrary to the article. Can I assume you have never coached? Your comments show you either have never done so or you have and simply have absolutely no idea in the slightest about coaching. 

Edited May 17, 2016 by n i k o

[playmaker]

On 02/05/2016 at 8:49 PM, n i k o said:

He doesn't seem like the best communicator.

You idiot.

[n i k o]

4 hours ago, playmaker said:

he must be a bad communicator

bad

bad/

adjective

1. 1. 

   of poor quality or a low standard.

   "a bad diet"

   synonyms:

   substandard, poor, inferior, second-rate, second-class, unsatisfactory, inadequate, unacceptable, not up to scratch, not up to par, deficient, imperfect, defective, faulty, shoddy, amateurish, careless, negligent; More

25 minutes ago, playmaker said:

So all this with poor communication skills

poor

pɔː,pʊə/

adjective

1.  
2. 2. 

   of a low or inferior standard or quality.

   "many people are eating a very poor diet"

   synonyms:

   substandard, below standard, below par, bad, deficient, defective, faulty, imperfect, inferior, mediocre;More

    

    

On 2 May 2016 at 8:49 PM, n i k o said:

He doesn't seem like the best communicator

best

bɛst/

adjective

1. 1. 

   of the most excellent or desirable type or quality.

   "the best midfielder in the country"

   synonyms:

   finest, greatest, top, foremost, leading, pre-eminent, premier, prime, first, chief, principal, supreme, of the highest quality, superlative, unrivalled, second to none, without equal, nonpareil, unsurpassed, unsurpassable, peerless, matchless, unparalleled, unbeaten, unbeatable, unexcelled, optimum, optimal, ultimate, surpassing, incomparable, ideal, perfect; More

 

16 minutes ago, playmaker said:

You idiot.

 

 

THIS IS A QUALITY POST

 

 

 

[playmaker]

Good comeback.

Yep a natural born leader and proven to be at the highest level that 'doesn't seem like the best communicator'.

Keep back pedaling Niko, I am enjoying this.

[thisphantomfortress]

Well this thread is now a trainwreck...

[KSK_47]

3 minutes ago, thisphantomfortress said:

Well this thread is now a trainwreck...

Its how we honour our club heroes around here

[n i k o]

38 minutes ago, playmaker said:

Good comeback.

Yep a natural born leader and proven to be at the highest level that 'doesn't seem like the best communicator'.

Keep back pedaling Niko, I am enjoying this.

Judging by your post you have missed the point. But I'm glad you've admitted that your wrong and that no one used the words "bad" or "poor" or even insinuated this about Paddie. 

Generally speaking if a player is a leader amongst his team mates it doesn't mean they will be a competent leader/communicator to young players that need to be developed and nurtured. Can you not understand this? 

Whats your coaching experience? 

 

[Shahanga]

19 hours ago, jw1739 said:

I'd say that the main point of the article is true of any teaching role. It's not necessarily the best or most-highly-qualified performer who is the best teacher for a particular pupil.

Agree. Not all experts are able to pass on their knowledge.

The other main point of the article seemed to be that the author just doesn't like John Terry.

[KSK_47]

18 minutes ago, Shahanga said:

The other main point of the article seemed to be that the author just doesn't like John Terry.

Haha. Probably written by Wayne Bridge

[thisphantomfortress]

38 minutes ago, KSK_47 said:

Haha. Probably written by Wayne Bridge

He needs to build a bridge IMO JT did nothing wrong 

[kingofhearts]

How about we just wait and see how he goes before we say anything about his coaching ability?

Edited May 17, 2016 by kingofhearts

[n i k o]

5 minutes ago, kingofhearts said:

How about we just wait and see how he goes before we say anything about his coaching ability?

Agree. No one has said anything against his coaching ability and only wish him the best. 

[Jovan]

Man this off season. 

It's just a discussion about coaching and not about Kisnorbo directly. 

 

[jw1739]

4 minutes ago, Jovan said:

Man this off season. 

It's just a discussion about coaching and not about Kisnorbo directly. 

Exactly. And we don't have any official word on just what role PK is expected to take. IIRC he does not have any formal coaching qualifications yet, so he might start in a mentoring capacity, just someone around the place whom a young player can talk to off the record.

[playmaker]

11 minutes ago, kingofhearts said:

How about we just wait and see how he goes before we say anything about his coaching ability?

With all his leadership qualities and experience, and character attributes he will be great. Exactly the type of person we need to lead and develop our future players.

[Jovan]

1 hour ago, playmaker said:

With all his leadership qualities and experience, and character attributes he will be great. Exactly the type of person we need to lead and develop our future players.

There's no in between with you.  He'll either be great or terrible. 

How about just waiting and see what he will actually be responsible for.

[NewConvert]

17 minutes ago, Jovan said:

There's no in between with you.  He'll either be great or terrible. 

How about just waiting and see what he will actually be responsible for.

Not only that but in Europe (and I hope that Australia follows suit) the apprenticeship is quite long - sure there are the exceptions but by and large managers/coaches tend to be in their 50s or 60s. It should be a while before we get to see PK leading seniors.

[n i k o]

55 minutes ago, Jovan said:

There's no in between with you.  He'll either be great or terrible. 

How about just waiting and see what he will actually be responsible for.

 

35 minutes ago, NewConvert said:

Not only that but in Europe (and I hope that Australia follows suit) the apprenticeship is quite long - sure there are the exceptions but by and large managers/coaches tend to be in their 50s or 60s. It should be a while before we get to see PK leading seniors.

Well said. However common sense has no place when dealing with playmaker. 

[Alexxxandro]

2 hours ago, playmaker said:

With all his leadership qualities and experience, and character attributes he will be great. Exactly the type of person we need to lead and develop our future players.

I try not to abuse people on the internet...

So I'll shut up...

 

Edited May 18, 2016 by Alexxxandro

[Jovan]

1 minute ago, n i k o said:

 

Well said. However common sense has no place when dealing with playmaker. 

Common sense is really not that common. 

[thisphantomfortress]

32 minutes ago, n i k o said:

 

Well said. However common sense has no place when dealing with playmaker.

As a mod I am really starting to wonder if his posts really are quality or if he's a liar.

[n i k o]

8 hours ago, thisphantomfortress said:

As a mod I am really starting to wonder if his posts really are quality or if he's a liar. 

Maybe it's just a complete lack of awareness, where he thinks his posts are actually quality. 

[xXCiTyZeNXx]

If we dont get a international coach for next season. We use kisnorbo instead. Won the youth league and possibly the w league in his first season. What will he do with his first season as the coach of melbourne city. Cmon fellas, root for kisnorbo ( if we dont get a international coach)

[Chris p]

2 minutes ago, xXCiTyZeNXx said:

If we dont get a international coach for next season. We use kisnorbo instead. Won the youth league and possibly the w league in his first season. What will he do with his first season as the coach of melbourne city. Cmon fellas, root for kisnorbo ( if we dont get a international coach)

 

A well credentialed foreign coach should be the minimum expectation for us this offseason 

[Jovan]

Joe went undefeated last season. 

Still think it will be an overseas appointment. 

[Kinnibari]

I like Kisnorbo but I think it's too soon.