Jump to content
Melbourne Football
Cinnamon

Player injuries

Recommended Posts

belaguttman    3,846
9 minutes ago, rass said:

Hmmmm i was thinking about our training ground the last few weeks and was going to raise that point.

Is it possible that it's just too firm? Yeah it looks great but there's way too many of these injuries happening for it to be a coincidence. 

The only injury we've had in training I think is Ivan Frantic but of course he even arrived injured. Most of the other injuries have happened on other grounds

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
rass    1,097
14 minutes ago, belaguttman said:

The only injury we've had in training I think is Ivan Frantic but of course he even arrived injured. Most of the other injuries have happened on other grounds

I understand that, but it can be a trigger. The hard training ground making them much more susceptible to soft tissue injuries during a game.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 17 November 2015 10:39:29 pm, jw1739 said:

It's alleged that they've "privately" (i.e."off the record" to a journo) blamed the hardness of the surface at CFA Melbourne. It's supposed to be a direct copy of the set-up in Manchester so that's very difficult to believe.

The women train there twice a day, and don't seem to have a problem.

We've had a number of highly-credentialled people trying to address the problem we have with injuries and injury management. Seemingly to no effect whatsoever. I think haz is close to the mark and that a number of players aren't too fussed about playing. Roll up about 10. Get a bit of a massage with some nice smelling oil. Say your calf still hurts. Get a coffee on the way home for lunch and spend the rest of the day with the family. And get paid via injury insurance. Repeat for two years and then move on.

My view is it's a systemic management issue, and wider than just the Head Coach.

If the pitches in Melbourne are identical to the pitches in Manchester then this could be the crux of the problem. If a pitch has originally been designed for Manchester and its climate, it probably won’t work in Melbourne (which is obviously much hotter and dryer).

 

The soil used in sports ground typically has a high sand content so that it drains quicker. The flipside is that it can allow more evaporation to occur because the soil can’t hold moisture very well and is therefor harder.

 

If the pitches are harder than they should be, it may explain why players are re-injuring themselves part way through rehab. The players are fine doing strength and mobility work in the gym, but break down when they start doing work on the training pitch. The physios/sport scientists aren’t able to correctly manage the training loads on recovering players because training on the hard pitch is more physically demanding then they planned. 

 

Long time lurker first time poster, I normally keep my inane ramblings to myself but this is an area I have a small amount of expertise in.

  • Like 6

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
johnno cpfc    652
On 11/19/2015, 5:26:22, Jacques Le Cube said:

 

If the pitches in Melbourne are identical to the pitches in Manchester then this could be the crux of the problem. If a pitch has originally been designed for Manchester and its climate, it probably won’t work in Melbourne (which is obviously much hotter and dryer).

 

 

 

The soil used in sports ground typically has a high sand content so that it drains quicker. The flipside is that it can allow more evaporation to occur because the soil can’t hold moisture very well and is therefor harder.

 

 

 

If the pitches are harder than they should be, it may explain why players are re-injuring themselves part way through rehab. The players are fine doing strength and mobility work in the gym, but break down when they start doing work on the training pitch. The physios/sport scientists aren’t able to correctly manage the training loads on recovering players because training on the hard pitch is more physically demanding then they planned. 

 

 

 

Long time lurker first time poster, I normally keep my inane ramblings to myself but this is an area I have a small amount of expertise in.

 

 

Me too Jacques the pitch in Manchester will naturally be softer because of the local climate so the ground staff or contractor at CFA needs to make some alterations in their programming for the pitch at CFA and bloody quickly!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
NewConvert    727
2 hours ago, jw1739 said:

Next season the excuse will be that although we made the pitch softer we had a wet winter and now it's too soft...

What??? You mean in Australia we have a thing called weather??? Who knew, right???

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
HeartOfCity    306

You know where this club can improve, its communication to supporters about injuries. I have no idea about other clubs in any other sport ( but I'm sure they're the same) Geelong Cats do a weekly segment with the medicos explains the injuries and how far they are from returning. The production looks like it takes 5mins of the medicos week and all supporters are informed. One of the changes I'm hoping the FRG can bring to the news letter.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Dylan    4,190
On 19/11/2015, 17:26:22, Jacques Le Cube said:

 

If the pitches in Melbourne are identical to the pitches in Manchester then this could be the crux of the problem. If a pitch has originally been designed for Manchester and its climate, it probably won’t work in Melbourne (which is obviously much hotter and dryer).

 

 

 

The soil used in sports ground typically has a high sand content so that it drains quicker. The flipside is that it can allow more evaporation to occur because the soil can’t hold moisture very well and is therefor harder.

 

 

 

If the pitches are harder than they should be, it may explain why players are re-injuring themselves part way through rehab. The players are fine doing strength and mobility work in the gym, but break down when they start doing work on the training pitch. The physios/sport scientists aren’t able to correctly manage the training loads on recovering players because training on the hard pitch is more physically demanding then they planned. 

 

 

 

Long time lurker first time poster, I normally keep my inane ramblings to myself but this is an area I have a small amount of expertise in.

 

 

Apparently they measured the ground at CFA melb and it was the same hardness as AAMI. I am pretty much convinced that its the way JVS takes his sessions that are the root cause. We have gone through different fitness people and a new multi million dollar pitch. There is no way every fitness person we have had has been wrong, so that just leaves one man.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
NewConvert    727

So by my understanding we have the following players on season ending injuries:

Gameiro - ACL

Marino - ACL permanently on 3 months

Koren - Has just re-injured his calf. Out for a germano

James Brown - Had a foot injury last season. Status unknown but presumably we won't see him this season

Hughes - soft tissue injury status unknown.

So from our 26 players we are down to 22/21. Three of which are listed as Forwards, one purports to be a mid-fielder and one defender. And two of these are visa players.

Does anyone have any updates on Brown, Marino or Hughes? Are any of them training at all, even if its just swimming pool laps?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Shahanga    3,697

To go hand in hand with my more detailed post in the Koren thread, here is my take on the clubs injury list and recruitment.

At the start of the season, on paper at least, our starting outfield 10 would probably have been Zullo, Hughes, Kisnorbo, Franjic; Paartalu, Mooy, Koren;Novillo, Fornarioli & Gamiero.  Now my position on signing players with an elevated risk of injury is that's its OK to do, but you have to consider the cumulative effect of these signings, or too put it simpler, you can't sign too many in this category.

Now when we examine that list you see that 3 are recovering from serious injuries (Gamiero, Franjic & Zullo) and 3 are well into their 30s and thus are at a much higher risk of injuries (Kisnorbo, Hughes & Koren) .  This in effect means that 60% of our starting outfield have an elevated chance of injury.  When I look at our signings it just seems we've looked at each recruitment on its own, without considering what is the overall risk of injury in the squad.  Again we have to remember we are playing on hard Australian grounds- injuries are to be expected.

So if we look at 3 older players you see:

  • Koren - well pure and simple the club made a commercial decision to stick with him, despite the fact it was clear he was well short of what they (somehow) thought they were getting.  Anyway we were stuck with the guy
  • Kisnorbo.  Had a great season and was very durable, a year older but his injury risk was surely not too bad
  • Hughes.  Hadn't played regularly in his most recent season, so a big question mark on how he would go on hard Aussie grounds in summer at 35.  

In regards to the 3 injured players you have:

  • Franjic.  A socceroo who has had about 4 injuries in a row.  Classy player, but has barely played a club game in about 2 years.
  • Gamiero.  Rising star on the verge of socceroos before an ACL injury took him down.  
  • Zullo.  The type of left back JVS loves, but seems to have spent the last 4 seasons injured. 

All three seem great signings when you look at them in isolation, but when you see the cumulative impact, its clear the club is asking for trouble here, particularly in light of the 3 older players listed above.

Based on the cumulative impact I would have thought it would have been prudent not to sign 2 of these- which i would have made Hughes (who really was a strange signing in my view) & Zullo, who though i rate him quite highly, is just too much extra risk.  

  • Like 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
belaguttman    3,846

At least of we sign Zullo sign him for more than 1 season, accept that this season without a pre-season and a late return to the playing list won't offer much over the season but plan for a good contribution in 2016/17

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
NewConvert    727
3 hours ago, belaguttman said:

At least of we sign Zullo sign him for more than 1 season, accept that this season without a pre-season and a late return to the playing list won't offer much over the season but plan for a good contribution in 2016/17

I am pretty sure that Zullo was signed for one season because he believed that he would recover in time to further impress European clubs who will then offer him a contract. So far, his fragility has signalled that he is a liability.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
jw1739    7,200
11 hours ago, NewConvert said:

I am pretty sure that Zullo was signed for one season because he believed that he would recover in time to further impress European clubs who will then offer him a contract. So far, his fragility has signalled that he is a liability.

That is my understanding too.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
SF33    617
Unavailable: 3.Aaron HUGHES (calf - 1 week), 10.Robi KOREN (calf - 1 week), 11.Michael ZULLO (calf - undisclosed), 14.James BROWN (foot - 4-6 weeks), 26.Marc MARINO (knee - 4-6 weeks)
Read more at http://www.melbournecityfc.com.au/article/team-news-central-coast-vs-melbourne-city/1dycqr4czga0215ipb5zkp6kxx#wRcDoUQOdAYmbjkR.99
 
Sounds promising. Anyone's guess as to when our starting left back will feel genuine pressure to keep his spot after submitting a performance that's not up to standard.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Shahanga    3,697
On 25 November 2015 at 6:57:10 PM, johnno cpfc said:

 

The thing I found interesting about that list is that this is the first time this season Brown has a number next to his name.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
jw1739    7,200
On 12/4/2015 at 8:22 PM, Shahanga said:

The thing I found interesting about that list is that this is the first time this season Brown has a number next to his name.

James Brown has played just 537 minutes for us - all last season - and only once for the full game.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
jw1739    7,200

Does anyone have the complete stats on Jakobsen and Malik? transfermarket.co.uk lists only the A-League - doesn't cover the FFA Cup.

Jakobsen has played the full match 9 times, and missed three matches due to injury.

Malik has played only 271 league minutes over five matches - on the bench for two and has missed the past five through injury.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Shahanga    3,697
On 29/12/2016 at 8:11 PM, jw1739 said:

Does anyone have the complete stats on Jakobsen and Malik? transfermarket.co.uk lists only the A-League - doesn't cover the FFA Cup.

Jakobsen has played the full match 9 times, and missed three matches due to injury.

Malik has played only 271 league minutes over five matches - on the bench for two and has missed the past five through injury.

 soccerway definitely has Malik. Look at the tab "domestic cups"

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
jw1739    7,200

The apparent refusal to even look at injury replacements for Gameiro and Kuzi is now going to bite us with the loss of Brandan.

Three wingers, three ACLs. Not a good season for serious injuries.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Thrillhouse    881
45 minutes ago, jw1739 said:

The apparent refusal to even look at injury replacements for Gameiro and Kuzi is now going to bite us with the loss of Brandan.

Three wingers, three ACLs. Not a good season for serious injuries.

surely the guys in charge pull their finger out now and bring someone in 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
jw1739    7,200
8 minutes ago, Thrillhouse said:

surely the guys in charge pull their finger out now and bring someone in 

My feeling is that they won't bother for Gameiro and Kuzi. Their contracts expire on 31/5/17 and I suspect both will be released and that we will make two new signings for next season in due course.

Brandan is more difficult; we don't know the extent of his injury yet. I'd guess that it would be hard to find someone to replace him at this stage of our season, unless on loan from somewhere.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Embee    2,434
1 hour ago, jw1739 said:

The apparent refusal to even look at injury replacements for Gameiro and Kuzi is now going to bite us with the loss of Brandan.

Three wingers, three ACLs. Not a good season for serious injuries.

Who would you suggest we can find for the wages those guys are on (and are not VISAs) that can come in and make an impact or that are even worth paying a wage to?

Now that Brandan has gone done I'd definitely be looking at a VISA replacement, but being upset that we didn't find injury replacements for squad guys (a youth player in the case of Kuzi) is a bit silly IMO.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
jw1739    7,200
3 minutes ago, Embee said:

Who would you suggest we can find for the wages those guys are on (and are not VISAs) that can come in and make an impact or that are even worth paying a wage to?

Now that Brandan has gone done I'd definitely be looking at a VISA replacement, but being upset that we didn't find injury replacements for squad guys (a youth player in the case of Kuzi) is a bit silly IMO.

Not "upset" as you put it. Not upset at all. But are you suggesting that there's no-one e.g in the NPL who could play on the wing for us and put in a workmanlike display? If that's the case then it's sure going to be difficult to expand the A-League.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Embee    2,434
21 minutes ago, jw1739 said:

Not "upset" as you put it. Not upset at all. But are you suggesting that there's no-one e.g in the NPL who could play on the wing for us and put in a workmanlike display? If that's the case then it's sure going to be difficult to expand the A-League.

Nobody that's going to be any better than Kamau, Fitzergerald, Brandan (to this point), Colazo or some of the kids in the youth squad could be. Would rather those minutes go to our own fringe players or youth rather than some plodder from the NPL.

To be fair, you bring it up enough for me to assume that it upsets you.

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Torn Asunder    1,358

What a shame - guy has character and brings people to the game and can deliver some exceptional quality.

If CFG are serious about this season then I expect an injury replacement visa player to be signed immediately ... remember global network of scouts.  Ideally someone who can play out wide (so like for like player) but is also a centre back!

If we do sign an injury replacement, less wingers may work out OK for us.  Means Colazao can start on the left.  The other option would be to sign a genuine No 10 and bench Brattan.  Also, Malik should be a bench player only, Killa should pair with Jacobson or Tongyik over Malik any day 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
haz    2,201
5 minutes ago, Torn Asunder said:

What a shame - guy has character and brings people to the game and can deliver some exceptional quality.

If CFG are serious about this season then I expect an injury replacement visa player to be signed immediately ... remember global network of scouts.  Ideally someone who can play out wide (so like for like player) but is also a centre back!

If we do sign an injury replacement, less wingers may work out OK for us.  Means Colazao can start on the left.  The other option would be to sign a genuine No 10 and bench Brattan.  Also, Malik should be a bench player only, Killa should pair with Jacobson or Tongyik over Malik any day 

 

Agree. Can anyone clarify the rules? We can sign an injury player outside the window, and does it actually have to be position for position?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
jw1739    7,200
11 minutes ago, haz said:

Agree. Can anyone clarify the rules? We can sign an injury player outside the window, and does it actually have to be position for position?

Harry Novillo was signed late Feb/early March 2015 as a replacement for Damian Duff so unless the rules have changed yet again, the answer to Q1 is "yes." However, the signing of Novillo received plenty of adverse comment. See http://theworldgame.sbs.com.au/blog/2015/03/12/australias-youngsters-need-fair-go-league . AFAIK the answer to Q2 is also "yes."

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
haz    2,201
1 minute ago, jw1739 said:

Harry Novillo was signed late Feb/early March 2015 as a replacement for Damian Duff so unless the rules have changed yet again, the answer to Q1 is "yes." However, the signing of Novillo received plenty of adverse comment. See http://theworldgame.sbs.com.au/blog/2015/03/12/australias-youngsters-need-fair-go-league . AFAIK the answer to Q2 is also "yes."

Cheers JW.

Interesting to see what happens now, will the club try and loophole the rule to get a CB (I hope) or will they go for a winger who can also play as a 10? Although I don't think we'll find anyone decent for the latter.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
neio    498

This may have been covered but why does it have to be like for like. If we have a winger go down but we see a bigger deficiency in midfield,  why can't we structure out squad the way we want 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
fensaddler    500

Fortunately Colazo should be able to cover this position.  The bigger question for me is the failure to secure decent central defensive cover at the outset, and then either to try and replace Chapman or find injury cover for Jakobsen.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
jw1739    7,200
2 hours ago, neio said:

This may have been covered but why does it have to be like for like. If we have a winger go down but we see a bigger deficiency in midfield,  why can't we structure out squad the way we want 

IIRC there was at least one case where the replacement was blatantly not a replacement at all but an addition to the squad - I think it might have been Victory who were the guilty club (but I can't be sure on that). A bit like us and the signing of Anthony Caceres - FFA moved to tighten the rules.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Shahanga    3,697
1 hour ago, jw1739 said:

IIRC there was at least one case where the replacement was blatantly not a replacement at all but an addition to the squad - I think it might have been Victory who were the guilty club (but I can't be sure on that). A bit like us and the signing of Anthony Caceres - FFA moved to tighten the rules.

Central Coast had a squaddie go down, so they brought in John Aloisi as an "injury replacement" (effectively an extra marquee). After that they changed the rules.

Not sure if there even is a like for like rule. This forum is the only place I've heard it mentioned.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
neio    498
13 hours ago, Shahanga said:

Central Coast had a squaddie go down, so they brought in John Aloisi as an "injury replacement" (effectively an extra marquee). After that they changed the rules.

Not sure if there even is a like for like rule. This forum is the only place I've heard it mentioned.

There definitely is a rule about it,  FFA blocked Sydney signing nikola petkovic as injury replacement for Terry antonis a few years ago 

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Torn Asunder    1,358

FFA are their own worse enemy when it comes to these restricive rules that only serve to damage the credibility of the competition.

They must soon come to realise and accept that football is a global game with established frameworks covering financial fair play, which actually allow owners to better deal with these types of injury issues.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now

×