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I think the proposals above just aren't bold enough.

As a starting point we need 12 teams in the greater Melbourne area thus giving a huge number of derbies. Ideally they should play in the wintertime (true football season)  at 2PM on a Saturday all at the same time at local grounds. To generate interest the teams should be spread out across the Greater Melbourne area namely Essendon, Melbourne (City), Geelong, Footscray, St Kilda (although they can be based in Moorabbin), Fitzroy, Hawthorn, North Melbourne, Richmond, South Melbourne and Carlton. There should also be a team based in Collingwood wearing black and white that everyone hates. After a year or two South Melbourne should be rebased in Sydney to annoy the local Greek population. I think this is a formula for success.    

 

Edited by TheStig
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1 hour ago, TheStig said:

I think the proposals above just aren't bold enough.

As a starting point we need 12 teams in the greater Melbourne area thus giving a huge number of derbies. Ideally they should play in the wintertime (true football season)  at 2PM on a Saturday all at the same time at local grounds. To generate interest the teams should be spread out across the Greater Melbourne area namely Essendon, Melbourne (City), Geelong, Footscray, St Kilda (although they can be based in Moorabbin), Fitzroy, Hawthorn, North Melbourne, Richmond, South Melbourne and Carlton. There should also be a team based in Collingwood wearing black and white that everyone hates. After a year or two South Melbourne should be rebased in Sydney to annoy the local Greek population. I think this is a formula for success.    

 

 

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  • 2 weeks later...
On 05/05/2018 at 5:19 PM, TheStig said:

I think the proposals above just aren't bold enough.

As a starting point we need 12 teams in the greater Melbourne area thus giving a huge number of derbies. Ideally they should play in the wintertime (true football season)  at 2PM on a Saturday all at the same time at local grounds. To generate interest the teams should be spread out across the Greater Melbourne area namely Essendon, Melbourne (City), Geelong, Footscray, St Kilda (although they can be based in Moorabbin), Fitzroy, Hawthorn, North Melbourne, Richmond, South Melbourne and Carlton. There should also be a team based in Collingwood wearing black and white that everyone hates. After a year or two South Melbourne should be rebased in Sydney to annoy the local Greek population. I think this is a formula for success.    

 

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  • 3 weeks later...
7 minutes ago, Dylan said:

I would hope City would react if one of these Melb club bids got up complete with their own stadium plans.

As in buying AAMI?

Because i dont see too much else as viable tbh, and i suspect buying AAMI would be outrageously expensive, for not that big a gain...

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2 minutes ago, bt50 said:

As in buying AAMI?

Because i dont see too much else as viable tbh, and i suspect buying AAMI would be outrageously expensive, for not that big a gain...

Just get Etihad to take over sponsorship and have AAMI kick the tards out.

Simples.

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2 hours ago, Dylan said:

I would hope City would react if one of these Melb club bids got up complete with their own stadium plans.

In what way would you expect us to "react?"

Marwood has pretty much ruled out further investment in the club until FFA takes the brakes off the league, so IMO that rules out a City stadium for now.

Judging by what others tell me the costs of a stadium would be I can't see any bid having that kind of money (Team11 and West Melbourne). I don't regard the South bid as having much chance, because for FFA to allow South to enter opens the door for a number of Sydney clubs that are similar to South to also put their hands up for inclusion. And I don't think FFA will be prepared to go down that road.

IMO any successful bid from a new Melbourne-based team would likely make inroads into our membership and attendances, but I don't see not having our own stadium as being a tipping point.

Whatever happened to the Latrobe Uni plans of 2-3 year ago that included some form of stadium on Plenty Road?

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I can't help thinking, too, that somehow or other the A-League and the A-League clubs have to lengthen the season as well as expand the number of clubs. Although at the moment football is still up there on the sporting landscape because of the World Cup Finals,  a six-month off-season basically means that the League dies every year and has to be resurrected with the new season. It's very hard to get growth in the League and its constituent clubs in that situation.

Just in contrast, my English non-league team finished its season in the play-offs on 6th May, but already has an eight-match pre-season arranged, all eight matches in July. Plenty to keep the fans interested.

I know about the competition from AFL, cricket and other sports, but IMO we ultimately have to face that competition. I don't think what we do now is the way to go.

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22 hours ago, jw1739 said:

I can't help thinking, too, that somehow or other the A-League and the A-League clubs have to lengthen the season as well as expand the number of clubs. Although at the moment football is still up there on the sporting landscape because of the World Cup Finals,  a six-month off-season basically means that the League dies every year and has to be resurrected with the new season. It's very hard to get growth in the League and its constituent clubs in that situation.

Just in contrast, my English non-league team finished its season in the play-offs on 6th May, but already has an eight-match pre-season arranged, all eight matches in July. Plenty to keep the fans interested.

I know about the competition from AFL, cricket and other sports, but IMO we ultimately have to face that competition. I don't think what we do now is the way to go.

Putting aside the logistical issues regarding competing with the AFL etc, the main issue in extending the length for me is simply how boring and stale it gets when you have to play the same sides more than twice.

For me, the goal within the next 4 years should be a 14 team comp where we play 26 games. Throw in international breaks on top and then you're probably extending the length of the season (very slightly) whilst avoiding having to see the same teams 3 times a season plus cup games/finals. 

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8 minutes ago, Embee said:

Putting aside the logistical issues regarding competing with the AFL etc, the main issue in extending the length for me is simply how boring and stale it gets when you have to play the same sides more than twice.

For me, the goal within the next 4 years should be a 14 team comp where we play 26 games. Throw in international breaks on top and then you're probably extending the length of the season (very slightly) whilst avoiding having to see the same teams 3 times a season plus cup games/finals. 

Perhaps we need to look outside the A-League in terms of more matches? You make a very valid point, but for me I'd rather have more matches than the boredom of a six-month off-season.

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Just now, jw1739 said:

Perhaps we need to look outside the A-League in terms of more matches? You make a very valid point, but for me I'd rather have more matches than the boredom of a six-month off-season.

I agree, the off-season is an absolute killer. I'm just not sure where else we'd generate those matches from tbh

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2 hours ago, Embee said:

I agree, the off-season is an absolute killer. I'm just not sure where else we'd generate those matches from tbh

Agreed, the fixture is less than ideal. A huge break and three games against every team is one too many but with 14 teams we can have the same season length whilst cutting it back to the ideal home and away arrangement. International breaks give us a couple extra weeks.

Even with a 12-team league next season, the FFA will need to figure out a new fixture. A 33-game season would become dull but a 22-game season would be far too short, even with finals. They could go down the AFL route but again there are issues with that too. 

We shouldn't forget the FFA Cup. It extends the football 'season' in a sense but unfortunately it doesn't have the mainstream appeal yet.

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1 hour ago, Harrison said:

Agreed, the fixture is less than ideal. A huge break and three games against every team is one too many but with 14 teams we can have the same season length whilst cutting it back to the ideal home and away arrangement. International breaks give us a couple extra weeks.

Even with a 12-team league next season, the FFA will need to figure out a new fixture. A 33-game season would become dull but a 22-game season would be far too short, even with finals. They could go down the AFL route but again there are issues with that too. 

We shouldn't forget the FFA Cup. It extends the football 'season' in a sense but unfortunately it doesn't have the mainstream appeal yet.

I don't think the FFA Cup will become popular until the restrictions are taken off the draw for each round.

I also think that we should bin the idea of a 12-team league and admit four new clubs in 2019/20 and go direct to 14 clubs - this would give us 26 matches, playing each other club twice only.

IMO even then, a 14-club league plus the FFA Cup is a bare minimum. The ideal is a 16-club league. If we ever get a National Second Division I'd like to see us introduce a League Cup for the clubs embracing the two divisions.

As far as City is concerned I would hope that we could do a lot more to keep interest in the club growing with our CFG connections. Surely we could get a couple of decent pre-season matches against other CFG clubs?

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43 minutes ago, jw1739 said:

I also think that we should bin the idea of a 12-team league and admit four new clubs in 2019/20 and go direct to 14 clubs - this would give us 26 matches, playing each other club twice only.

My preference would be a 14-team league too. I think they've ruled that out though, which is a shame. Four new teams would be a big boost and would change the whole dynamic of the league.

I just wonder if they'll have a preference for states with just the one team. If they added a team to SA, WA and Queensland then there would be a total of six derbies, which would mean one just about every second round if they spread it out. Another Victorian/NSW team could theoretically add another derby or two. 

The derbies get the biggest ratings and attendances. Seems like it is something they should exploit provided those capital cities could support two teams. I also think that adding a second team in a state tends to grow the pie rather than just redistribute it. 

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41 minutes ago, Harrison said:

A pox on Gallop, O'Rourke, and the rest of the mob at FFA HQ. They have no f****** idea whatsoever. If you and I can work out that a 14-team league is the first step on the way we have to go, and the value of derbies and basing clubs in population centres, why can't those morons?

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1 hour ago, jw1739 said:

A pox on Gallop, O'Rourke, and the rest of the mob at FFA HQ. They have no f****** idea whatsoever. If you and I can work out that a 14-team league is the first step on the way we have to go, and the value of derbies and basing clubs in population centres, why can't those morons?

Money money money

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Look whilst on the exposed facts i generally agree, we football fans really need a good dose of humility when it comes to admin decisions. No-one that's Joe public has seen the bids, the proposals, the financials of FFA etc and we certainly (for the 99.99%) arent better qualified than Gallop or Lowy when it comes to running a national competition.
Now im not saying i agree with them, nor am i saying we should cut them any slack, but i think people need to take a grain of salt when criticising too and realise they don't know how they'd respond until they had all the factors at hand as well. Saying 'i think you're doing it wrong' is different to stating 'they are doing it wrong and that you could do better' is all i'm saying.

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1 minute ago, bt50 said:

Look whilst on the exposed facts i generally agree, we football fans really need a good dose of humility when it comes to admin decisions. No-one that's Joe public has seen the bids, the proposals, the financials of FFA etc and we certainly (for the 99.99%) arent better qualified than Gallop or Lowy when it comes to running a national competition.
Now im not saying i agree with them, nor am i saying we should cut them any slack, but i think people need to take a grain of salt when criticising too and realise they don't know how they'd respond until they had all the factors at hand as well. Saying 'i think you're doing it wrong' is different to stating 'they are doing it wrong and that you could do better' is all i'm saying.

There's no doubt the FFA have screwed up the leagues potential thus far. But what gets me is when people throw out the 'just introduced P&R' or just expand to 16 teams argument and think it'd be that simple. You've definitely hit the nail on the head. The point of difference is not everyone takes an interest in thinking things out rationally from all angles though @bt50.

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3 minutes ago, n i k o said:

There's no doubt the FFA have screwed up the leagues potential thus far. But what gets me is when people throw out the 'just introduced P&R' or just expand to 16 teams argument and think it'd be that simple. You've definitely hit the nail on the head. The point of difference is not everyone takes an interest in thinking things out rationally from all angles though @bt50.

No they dont, a lot of people are governed by feelings before facts and commercial considerations.
And im certainly not suggesting people shouldnt have opinions just because they don't know all the facts, because thats both impractical and ineffective, but I do think everyone should try to be aware of their own knowledge and capabilities somewhat when criticising the world and offering advice. Applicable across all facets of life imo.

100% i agree that the FFA have done a poor job overall, particularly since the retirement of Frank Lowy. This is borne out in the 'metrics' and overall sentiment around the game. It's harder to criticise specific decisions imo because we the public don't know all the factors at play, but at the very least you can be critical of the communication from the top because with adequate communication you can at least have the public sympathise with what you were trying to do. 
I'd suggest that the Aust football public has had numerous occasions where we've just gone wtf?? (Cahill, Caceres and Lampard Rules come to mind) and then heard nothing in regards to the reasoning why FFA made the decision in the first place. Talking to the media costs the FFA nothing and could at very least have limited a hell of a lot of the damage that they've inflicted upon themselves.

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1 hour ago, bt50 said:

No they dont, a lot of people are governed by feelings before facts and commercial considerations.
And im certainly not suggesting people shouldnt have opinions just because they don't know all the facts, because thats both impractical and ineffective, but I do think everyone should try to be aware of their own knowledge and capabilities somewhat when criticising the world and offering advice. Applicable across all facets of life imo.

100% i agree that the FFA have done a poor job overall, particularly since the retirement of Frank Lowy. This is borne out in the 'metrics' and overall sentiment around the game. It's harder to criticise specific decisions imo because we the public don't know all the factors at play, but at the very least you can be critical of the communication from the top because with adequate communication you can at least have the public sympathise with what you were trying to do. 
I'd suggest that the Aust football public has had numerous occasions where we've just gone wtf?? (Cahill, Caceres and Lampard Rules come to mind) and then heard nothing in regards to the reasoning why FFA made the decision in the first place. Talking to the media costs the FFA nothing and could at very least have limited a hell of a lot of the damage that they've inflicted upon themselves.

Well that's the thing. Social media is swamped with shit cunts that vent their deep seated emotions. That'll never change. It makes it amusing at times but mind boggling at others. 

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How typical. FFA "acknowledging" that the Southern Expansion bit would be a "threat" to Sydney FC's membership.

https://www.smh.com.au/sport/soccer/gallop-distances-himself-from-cricket-australia-top-job-20180611-p4zkoq.html

Sydney is a piss-weak club, despite being successful on the field. Objected to City's sky-blue aspirations, now saying they can't defend their membership numbers from a proposed new A-League franchise.

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21 minutes ago, jw1739 said:

How typical. FFA "acknowledging" that the Southern Expansion bit would be a "threat" to Sydney FC's membership.

https://www.smh.com.au/sport/soccer/gallop-distances-himself-from-cricket-australia-top-job-20180611-p4zkoq.html

Sydney is a piss-weak club, despite being successful on the field. Objected to City's sky-blue aspirations, now saying they can't defend their membership numbers from a proposed new A-League franchise.

Even more so FFA have (as usual) delayed the shortlist of bids, since 'some' bids were not ready in time.

How much money do you want to be that these bids are the FFA's favourites....

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  • 3 weeks later...

So they changed the shortlist from 6 to 10, fuck it! Just bring in 4 teams. Also big oppurtunity missed by not shortlisting Tassie.

Quote

A-League expansion shortlist announced

By Staff Writer Jun 29 2018 2:03PM
 

It's here but it's longer than expected! The FFA has finally released the shortlist of the A-league expansion bids.

Earlier this month, the shortlist was pushed back as Deloitte, the consulting company examining the bids and advising FFA, sought additional information from a number of the groups.

There will be 10 teams, originally meant to be eight, vying for the two spots up for grabs with Gold Coast United, West Adelaide (Adelaide II), Belgravia Leisure, Tasmania and Fremantle City missing out. 

FFA intends to grant licences for two new clubs to join the Hyundai A-League in the season after next, 2019-20. 

The ultimate aim of the process is to identify two bids with the strongest potential for establishing clubs with long-term sustainability. 

"FFA's job is to get the best outcome for the Hyundai A-League and football as a whole," FFA Chief Executive David Gallop said.

"That means granting licences that will complement the existing Hyundai A-League clubs, link back into fans and the football history in their local community, help to develop football pathways for more players, increase interest from sponsors and broadcasters, have solid financial backing and operate sustainably," he added.

Chairman of the West Adelaide bid, Andy Haralampopoulos has said the bid was not shortlisted due to it not being in the desired geographic area.

FFA does not want a second Adelaide team at this time, however, they are strong candidates for next expansion when A-League goes to 14.

10 shortlisted teams for A-League expansion:

United for Macarthur (Campbelltown)

South-Western Sydney FC

Southern Expansion (Sutherland, St George and Wollongong)

Wollongong Wolves 

Team 11 (Dandenong)

Western Melbourne (Geelong)

South Melbourne 

Western Pride (Ipswich)

Canberra & Capital Region

Brisbane City

Wolves, Canberra, Team 11, QLD team. please

 

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36 minutes ago, haz said:

So they changed the shortlist from 6 to 10, fuck it! Just bring in 4 teams. Also big oppurtunity missed by not shortlisting Tassie.

Wolves, Canberra, Team 11, QLD team. please

Can't agree on Tasmania of course, but agree with you otherwise - just bring in the four teams in 2019-20 and the final two the season after. 

But there never is a single magic bullet. Other changes - such as the removal of certain restrictive rules, and an independent league - have to be made as well.

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11 minutes ago, jw1739 said:

Can't agree on Tasmania of course, but agree with you otherwise - just bring in the four teams in 2019-20 and the final two the season after. 

But there never is a single magic bullet. Other changes - such as the removal of certain restrictive rules, and an independent league - have to be made as well.

Ill wait to hear the reason on TAS from FFA before I change my mind.

But yea I think this whole expansion could go either really bad, or really well if FFA get kicked by FIFA in the next few months.

IMO I would be happy with 2 team expansion other the next 3-4 years.

1st Year: Wolves, Canberra

2nd Year: Team 11 (do they have a stadium?), Brisbane

3rd Year:  South Melbourne (or another club with infrastructure), Adelaide/WA

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  • 3 weeks later...

Fourfourtwo are holding a poll on the expansion.

https://www.fourfourtwo.com.au/news/poll-pick-the-next-a-league-club-498508

They don't give a total number of votes but the spread so far is

Canberra 33%

Woollongong Wolves 29%

South Melbourne 18%

Team 11  7%

Western Pride (Ipswich). 4%

West Melbourne (Geelong) 2%

Southern Expansion 2%

Brisbane City. 2%

United for McArthur  2%

South West Sydney 1%

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2 hours ago, mjake1234 said:

Fourfourtwo are holding a poll on the expansion.

https://www.fourfourtwo.com.au/news/poll-pick-the-next-a-league-club-498508

They don't give a total number of votes but the spread so far is

Canberra 33%

Woollongong Wolves 29%

South Melbourne 18%

Team 11  7%

Western Pride (Ipswich). 4%

West Melbourne (Geelong) 2%

Southern Expansion 2%

Brisbane City. 2%

United for McArthur  2%

South West Sydney 1%

And we don't know how loaded the voting has been. But if it's a genuine poll then the above doesn't really surprise me. You and I might favour Team11, but in the minds of the average fan it makes sense to locate new A-League clubs in population centres where there's no existing competition.

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7 hours ago, mjake1234 said:

Fourfourtwo are holding a poll on the expansion.

https://www.fourfourtwo.com.au/news/poll-pick-the-next-a-league-club-498508

They don't give a total number of votes but the spread so far is

Canberra 33%

Woollongong Wolves 29%

South Melbourne 18%

Team 11  7%

Western Pride (Ipswich). 4%

West Melbourne (Geelong) 2%

Southern Expansion 2%

Brisbane City. 2%

United for McArthur  2%

South West Sydney 1%

 

4 hours ago, jw1739 said:

And we don't know how loaded the voting has been. But if it's a genuine poll then the above doesn't really surprise me. You and I might favour Team11, but in the minds of the average fan it makes sense to locate new A-League clubs in population centres where there's no existing competition.

If you use incognito you can have unlimited votes..... I might have jacked up the Wolves and Canberra votes by a few dozen....

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  • 1 month later...
1 hour ago, Dylan said:

Apparently Team 11 and SWS have the inside running

Eh not surprised.

But with the strength of the other bids, plus the Canberra Government putting $150k into each home match, I dont see why it cant be 4 team expansion.

2 Teams - 19/20

2 Teams- 20/21

If all goes well, add another two around 22/23. A 16 team comp with only 2 matchs for each oppenent is perfect. Also the top 6 finals wouldnt be lop-sided.

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