bt50 Posted February 19, 2018 Report Share Posted February 19, 2018 14 minutes ago, Jovan said: I think all this talk on which city/town should get it is flawed. Whichever teams get in you will heaps of people bitching about better candidates. Ultimately it must be merit based on results. So awarding some new start up team is just a continuation of a flawed system. The teams that should be eligible must be the NPL champions. If then they either don't satisfy clear and open criteria then the next best team gets a chance. But without promotion relegation you will get this endless debate on who should or should not be admitted. Sadly none of this will occur and if new teams get admitted (which i doubt) they will be no clear reason why. I think Brisbane are a certain starter if all the noise is to be believed. The 2nd team could be any of a number of applicants, from the Southern bid, Wollongong, South Melb, Geelong or Tassie. Don't think there's much weight in the Adelaide or Perth bids. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jw1739 Posted February 20, 2018 Report Share Posted February 20, 2018 1 hour ago, thisphantomfortress said: More like criminal people are discussing them having a team. Market of 600k is unsustainable @thisphantomfortress If only we could get that message through...because it's not a single market in any case. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GreenSeater Posted February 20, 2018 Report Share Posted February 20, 2018 20 hours ago, haz said: I heard its Alice Spings and Wagga Wagga Would test my City allegience, the old Alice Springs Soccer Club jersey in my wardrobe is just crying out to be worn again 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Embee Posted February 20, 2018 Report Share Posted February 20, 2018 40 minutes ago, GreenSeater said: Would test my City allegience, the old Alice Springs Soccer Club jersey in my wardrobe is just crying out to be worn again @thisphantomfortress No more Podcast for GreenSeater 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GreenSeater Posted February 20, 2018 Report Share Posted February 20, 2018 1 hour ago, Embee said: @thisphantomfortress No more Podcast for GreenSeater I swear it was a joke! (Not the bit about the jersey, I really do have one) 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kingofhearts Posted February 20, 2018 Report Share Posted February 20, 2018 Outside of the cabury chocolate factory, and the biggest inbred rate out of every state/territory in the country, I fail to see what a Tasmanian team could bring to the a-league #keeptasmaniaoutoffootball 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cadete Posted February 22, 2018 Report Share Posted February 22, 2018 (edited) On 2/20/2018 at 10:10 PM, kingofhearts said: Outside of the cabury chocolate factory, and the biggest inbred rate out of every state/territory in the country, I fail to see what a Tasmanian team could bring to the a-league #keeptasmaniaoutoffootball Not that I do Away Trips anymore... but cost and fun wise Tasmania would be a great place for Away Trips for fans of other clubs - in particular those in Melbourne. Edited February 22, 2018 by cadete Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Young Polak Posted February 22, 2018 Report Share Posted February 22, 2018 Lets be serious here guys, think of the possibilities of creating group photos with pyro on the Spirit of Tasmania and be featured on multiple Ultras Facebook Pages 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KSK_47 Posted February 22, 2018 Report Share Posted February 22, 2018 On 20/02/2018 at 10:10 PM, kingofhearts said: Outside of the cabury chocolate factory, and the biggest inbred rate out of every state/territory in the country, I fail to see what a Tasmanian team could bring to the a-league #keeptasmaniaoutoffootball Don't forget MONA's famous poo making machine! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jw1739 Posted February 22, 2018 Report Share Posted February 22, 2018 The main problem with deciding which expansion clubs to choose is that different people are working to different criteria. IMO the first thing that should be done make the A-League managed independently of FFA by an A-League Commission, the form and accountabilities of such to be determined by the participating clubs themselves. The League Commission should then decide on the sorts of issues that are regularly raised by fans - the salary cap, the numbers cap, transfer fees, number of visa players, loan players, expansion, promotion/relegation, fixturing, international breaks, etc. etc. FFA just does not have the capacity or ability to micromanage all the things it is trying to do. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NewConvert Posted February 23, 2018 Report Share Posted February 23, 2018 On 2/22/2018 at 9:03 PM, jw1739 said: The main problem with deciding which expansion clubs to choose is that different people are working to different criteria. IMO the first thing that should be done make the A-League managed independently of FFA by an A-League Commission, the form and accountabilities of such to be determined by the participating clubs themselves. The League Commission should then decide on the sorts of issues that are regularly raised by fans - the salary cap, the numbers cap, transfer fees, number of visa players, loan players, expansion, promotion/relegation, fixturing, international breaks, etc. etc. FFA just does not have the capacity or ability to micromanage all the things it is trying to do. TBH I don't think that the commission would be that much different. Part of the problem for fans is that the clubs finances are opaque - indeed the whole financial structure is opaque. The second issue is that too many fans think that the game would grow instantaneously if only teh salary cap was removed and there was expansion and if the effnik clubs are allowed back in; without even bothering to learn the lessons of the NSL. However the FFA is micromanaging and essentially doing a poor job of it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shahanga Posted February 24, 2018 Report Share Posted February 24, 2018 On 20/02/2018 at 9:58 AM, Jovan said: I think all this talk on which city/town should get it is flawed. Whichever teams get in you will heaps of people bitching about better candidates. Ultimately it must be merit based on results. So awarding some new start up team is just a continuation of a flawed system. The teams that should be eligible must be the NPL champions. If then they either don't satisfy clear and open criteria then the next best team gets a chance. But without promotion relegation you will get this endless debate on who should or should not be admitted. Sadly none of this will occur and if new teams get admitted (which i doubt) they will be no clear reason why. But if they had a 2nd division and expanded by promotion they couldn’t sell licences for umpteen million to privately owned franchises Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NewConvert Posted February 24, 2018 Report Share Posted February 24, 2018 3 hours ago, Shahanga said: But if they had a 2nd division and expanded by promotion they couldn’t sell licences for umpteen million to privately owned franchises And your source that knows that there are umpteen millions by privately owned franchisees waiting to buy a second division license? This reminds me of ITV Digital in 2002 who paid squillions to broadcast the League games that nobody wanted to watch. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shahanga Posted February 24, 2018 Report Share Posted February 24, 2018 3 hours ago, NewConvert said: And your source that knows that there are umpteen millions by privately owned franchisees waiting to buy a second division license? This reminds me of ITV Digital in 2002 who paid squillions to broadcast the League games that nobody wanted to watch. No I meant selling A League licences of course and bizarre as it seems to you and me, people have paid millions for these (to earn the right to lose millions every year), so there definitely is a market for them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jw1739 Posted February 26, 2018 Report Share Posted February 26, 2018 On 2/24/2018 at 5:56 PM, Shahanga said: No I meant selling A League licences of course and bizarre as it seems to you and me, people have paid millions for these (to earn the right to lose millions every year), so there definitely is a market for them. Yes, but that market is based, partially at least, on the basis that the team cannot be tipped out of the A-League. IMO the issue with promotion and relegation is not so much the promotion side but the relegation. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shahanga Posted February 27, 2018 Report Share Posted February 27, 2018 On 26/02/2018 at 8:29 PM, jw1739 said: Yes, but that market is based, partially at least, on the basis that the team cannot be tipped out of the A-League. IMO the issue with promotion and relegation is not so much the promotion side but the relegation. Which supports my argument even more Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jw1739 Posted February 27, 2018 Report Share Posted February 27, 2018 1 hour ago, Shahanga said: Which supports my argument even more Your argument being that licences will become cheaper so more people will line up to buy one? I don't agree, because IMO the damage that will be caused to any relegated club will be far greater than any benefit gained by a cheaper licence fee. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shahanga Posted February 28, 2018 Report Share Posted February 28, 2018 7 hours ago, jw1739 said: Your argument being that licences will become cheaper so more people will line up to buy one? I don't agree, because IMO the damage that will be caused to any relegated club will be far greater than any benefit gained by a cheaper licence fee. No my argument that FFA don’t want promotion/relegation because then they can’t sell licences. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jw1739 Posted February 28, 2018 Report Share Posted February 28, 2018 2 hours ago, Shahanga said: No my argument that FFA don’t want promotion/relegation because then they can’t sell licences. Well, I certainly agree with that. Why would anyone want to buy a licence if there was a serious chance that you could be relegated in your first season. I don't believe the existing clubs want it either. Unless there is a play-off system whereby you have a last chance to avoid the drop, one of the existing clubs must be relegated at the end of the first season of promotion/relegation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NewConvert Posted March 3, 2018 Report Share Posted March 3, 2018 On 2/28/2018 at 8:10 PM, jw1739 said: Well, I certainly agree with that. Why would anyone want to buy a licence if there was a serious chance that you could be relegated in your first season. I don't believe the existing clubs want it either. Unless there is a play-off system whereby you have a last chance to avoid the drop, one of the existing clubs must be relegated at the end of the first season of promotion/relegation. The old NSL had it and as I have mentioned before the VFA also had promotion/relegation. They no longer exist. Australia is a different sporting landscape and resuscitating ideas and concepts which have not worked in the past but work elsewhere means that the threshold for approving it has to be higher. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shahanga Posted March 4, 2018 Report Share Posted March 4, 2018 10 hours ago, NewConvert said: The old NSL had it and as I have mentioned before the VFA also had promotion/relegation. They no longer exist. Australia is a different sporting landscape and resuscitating ideas and concepts which have not worked in the past but work elsewhere means that the threshold for approving it has to be higher. I agree with you. To be clear I support a 2nd division (for want of a better description) quickly but see promotion/relegation as another matter. This would be a long time away. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NewConvert Posted March 4, 2018 Report Share Posted March 4, 2018 2 hours ago, Shahanga said: I agree with you. To be clear I support a 2nd division (for want of a better description) quickly but see promotion/relegation as another matter. This would be a long time away. What would a second division provide that the NPL does not do so already? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jw1739 Posted March 4, 2018 Report Share Posted March 4, 2018 2 hours ago, Shahanga said: I agree with you. To be clear I support a 2nd division (for want of a better description) quickly but see promotion/relegation as another matter. This would be a long time away. That wasn't clear originally. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shahanga Posted March 4, 2018 Report Share Posted March 4, 2018 19 minutes ago, NewConvert said: What would a second division provide that the NPL does not do so already? The NPL covers about 100 “top flight” clubs, across all the states. That means the drop in standard from the A League is huge. A second division or whatever you want to call it, would concentrate the talent in a much smaller group, so this would be much closer to A League standard, giving fringe players a real alternative. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NewConvert Posted March 4, 2018 Report Share Posted March 4, 2018 15 minutes ago, Shahanga said: The NPL covers about 100 “top flight” clubs, across all the states. That means the drop in standard from the A League is huge. A second division or whatever you want to call it, would concentrate the talent in a much smaller group, so this would be much closer to A League standard, giving fringe players a real alternative. I would prefer that each state would have its own 2nd division of 12-14 teams based around the exisiting NPL structure. The FFA to provide some infrastructure towards maintaining the league and in some way connect the second division to the a-league clubs. At season's end the top two teams join the national conference to determine a national champion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GreenSeater Posted March 4, 2018 Report Share Posted March 4, 2018 4 hours ago, Shahanga said: The NPL covers about 100 “top flight” clubs, across all the states. That means the drop in standard from the A League is huge. A second division or whatever you want to call it, would concentrate the talent in a much smaller group, so this would be much closer to A League standard, giving fringe players a real alternative. Would also most likely compete in the same time period as the A League (summer instead of winter) meaning it would be a viable place for talented youth to be loaned out to/scouted from Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
haz Posted March 4, 2018 Report Share Posted March 4, 2018 Next two teams need to be Aurukun/Bamaga/Thursday Island and Alice Springs.... the government funds would be in the millions! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jw1739 Posted March 4, 2018 Report Share Posted March 4, 2018 13 hours ago, Shahanga said: The NPL covers about 100 “top flight” clubs, across all the states. That means the drop in standard from the A League is huge. A second division or whatever you want to call it, would concentrate the talent in a much smaller group, so this would be much closer to A League standard, giving fringe players a real alternative. In essence, then you're proposing a new 12-18 club "National Premier league" sitting underneath (some would argue parallel to) the A-League, but with no promotion/relegation link between the two (at least not now, anyway). The clubs to be drawn from the current state-based NPLs. Then underneath that will be the state-based NPLs as exists today. Wouldn't the costs of running a second national competition be a huge imposition on the game? Also, I'm not convinced that players in the existing state-based NPLs will gravitate towards the 12-18 selected clubs. Nevertheless, interesting idea. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shahanga Posted March 5, 2018 Report Share Posted March 5, 2018 2 hours ago, jw1739 said: In essence, then you're proposing a new 12-18 club "National Premier league" sitting underneath (some would argue parallel to) the A-League, but with no promotion/relegation link between the two (at least not now, anyway). The clubs to be drawn from the current state-based NPLs. Then underneath that will be the state-based NPLs as exists today. Wouldn't the costs of running a second national competition be a huge imposition on the game? Also, I'm not convinced that players in the existing state-based NPLs will gravitate towards the 12-18 selected clubs. Nevertheless, interesting idea. Actually I’m not proposing it. Those clubs are. Of course they want promotion (relegation) too, but to me that needs that league to be “mature” first and various other hurdles as well. Finances? No idea but the clubs think they can pull it off. Obviously lots of overheads with a National League so they’d need to generate extra revenue. If the standard is better and there is more money involved then yes, the better players will be attracted, that’s the least of their problems I suspect. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jw1739 Posted March 5, 2018 Report Share Posted March 5, 2018 45 minutes ago, Shahanga said: Actually I’m not proposing it. Those clubs are. Of course they want promotion (relegation) too, but to me that needs that league to be “mature” first and various other hurdles as well. Finances? No idea but the clubs think they can pull it off. Obviously lots of overheads with a National League so they’d need to generate extra revenue. If the standard is better and there is more money involved then yes, the better players will be attracted, that’s the least of their problems I suspect. Well, my answer to those clubs is that if they think 12-18 of them can form a new and viable national league with all the duplication of the A-League that it would involve, then they ought to have no problem with finding 6-8 clubs to expand the existing national league. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
haz Posted March 5, 2018 Report Share Posted March 5, 2018 4 hours ago, jw1739 said: Well, my answer to those clubs is that if they think 12-18 of them can form a new and viable national league with all the duplication of the A-League that it would involve, then they ought to have no problem with finding 6-8 clubs to expand the existing national league. What frustrates me is that AFL get another payment from the Gov (I think around $300m).... with that sort of money we could have 3 divs sustainable for atleast 2 years. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jw1739 Posted March 5, 2018 Report Share Posted March 5, 2018 It's very difficult to find out precisely what funding goes to what sport. As I understand it, the $300m you refer to is to redevelop Docklands, built only in 2001. Some of the amounts are staggering - for example, the Tasmanian Government putting $19m into Hawthorn over 5 years. This article may be of interest. http://www.abc.net.au/news/2013-09-27/kennett-correct-on-afl-investment/4983476 It would be an interesting research project to find out what really is happening when you aggregate state and federal government funding to various sports. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
haz Posted March 5, 2018 Report Share Posted March 5, 2018 52 minutes ago, jw1739 said: It's very difficult to find out precisely what funding goes to what sport. As I understand it, the $300m you refer to is to redevelop Docklands, built only in 2001. Some of the amounts are staggering - for example, the Tasmanian Government putting $19m into Hawthorn over 5 years. This article may be of interest. http://www.abc.net.au/news/2013-09-27/kennett-correct-on-afl-investment/4983476 It would be an interesting research project to find out what really is happening when you aggregate state and federal government funding to various sports. I just dont know why the FFA dont beg like the AFL. Even a $10m grant would do wonders (minium cap for 2 HAL teams for approx two seasons) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NewConvert Posted March 5, 2018 Report Share Posted March 5, 2018 9 hours ago, haz said: I just dont know why the FFA dont beg like the AFL. Even a $10m grant would do wonders (minium cap for 2 HAL teams for approx two seasons) IIRC when Howard asked Graeme Samuel do a report in the state of football in this country, the Feds gave $46M to kick off the FFA. AFAIK the FFA still receives some money from the Feds because the Basketball association were not happy about it and that was about 4 years ago. The problem is the opacity of sports funding. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
haz Posted March 5, 2018 Report Share Posted March 5, 2018 44 minutes ago, NewConvert said: IIRC when Howard asked Graeme Samuel do a report in the state of football in this country, the Feds gave $46M to kick off the FFA. AFAIK the FFA still receives some money from the Feds because the Basketball association were not happy about it and that was about 4 years ago. The problem is the opacity of sports funding. Id be more worried it goes straight into Lowys back pocket Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shahanga Posted March 6, 2018 Report Share Posted March 6, 2018 6 hours ago, haz said: Id be more worried it goes straight into Lowys back pocket Might be a bit harsh. My guess is that Frank put a lot more money into football than he ever got back. His worst sin was getting his son appointed his successor. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
haz Posted March 6, 2018 Report Share Posted March 6, 2018 4 hours ago, Shahanga said: Might be a bit harsh. My guess is that Frank put a lot more money into football than he ever got back. His worst sin was getting his son appointed his successor. I think we can agree that there is lots of various 'sins', not just by the Lowys Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jovan Posted March 6, 2018 Report Share Posted March 6, 2018 7 hours ago, Shahanga said: Might be a bit harsh. My guess is that Frank put a lot more money into football than he ever got back. His worst sin was getting his son appointed his successor. Actually it's not that clear that he has put "his" money in at all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shahanga Posted March 6, 2018 Report Share Posted March 6, 2018 1 hour ago, Jovan said: Actually it's not that clear that he has put "his" money in at all. Well he propped up Scum FC in their early days and then there is Westfields position as “sponsor of last resort” for the W League. What else he’s done, no idea but I suspect it would be more. Then there’s the time and yes someone with his business name could get a lot more on the free market than he ever got from football (if he got anything). I think he’s done a lot for the game here, just sad he felt he had to hand over to his son who seemingly has no talent for the job. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
haz Posted March 6, 2018 Report Share Posted March 6, 2018 1 hour ago, Shahanga said: I think he’s done a lot for the game here, just sad he felt he had to hand over to his son who seemingly has no talent for the job. I used to play indoor cricket against a guy who looked like a younger version of Steven. Hated the bloke, would always cheat and lie to the umpire that the ball never hit the back net etc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.