A-league expansion

[jw1739]

This could go into a number of "FFA threads" but I do think that FFA has got to get off it's organizational arse pretty quickly to energise the senior football leagues in the country. It needs to counter the inroads being made by AFLW - I see and hear non-stop media promotion of this competition - and now AFLX, as well as the short forms of cricket. 3,800 to watch some pissy AFLW match, 42,000 to the T20, and a mere 8,587 to watch 3rd vs. 1st in the A-League.

Just sitting on its hands and saying it's all to hard while it conducts its internecine arguments with other parts of football administration is taking us backwards while other organizations are taking themselves forwards.

[Jovan]

25 minutes ago, jw1739 said:

This could go into a number of "FFA threads" but I do think that FFA has got to get off it's organizational arse pretty quickly to energise the senior football leagues in the country. It needs to counter the inroads being made by AFLW - I see and hear non-stop media promotion of this competition - and now AFLX, as well as the short forms of cricket. 3,800 to watch some pissy AFLW match, 42,000 to the T20, and a mere 8,587 to watch 3rd vs. 1st in the A-League.

Just sitting on its hands and saying it's all to hard while it conducts its internecine arguments with other parts of football administration is taking us backwards while other organizations are taking themselves forwards.

Add basketball which has also come back ( not like the 80s) but still not obscure. 

The A League has to compete on several fronts and so far we have seen the same model over a decade old that was constructed in a completely different landscape. 

My only glimmer of hope that I cling to is that the strong A League clubs will force a climax as they have more to lose than any other stakeholder. But the current FFA management is a stubborn bunch. 

[CityHeart]

This whole summer sport thing is really intriguing. Just recently, I think it was spoken on SEN, I heard that the NBL is already looking to abandon summer and move back to winter.  why? The big bash.

I dont even think cricket purists (who say they hate it) realise the effect it is having. I had nearly given up on cricket, but the BBL has reignited my consumption. I hardly have watched a test or ODI for over a decade. Whilst its on, unless City or a big A-league game is on I am watching BBL if at home. It literally dominates 7 nights per week too.

That brings my to the AFLW and more importantly the AFLX. I have no idea what the plan is for AFLX, but it sure as heck aint a one-off carnival like 2018. If it takes off, I think it is the AFL's answer to T20 cricket and something they can perhaps run a separate league (lesser/younger players, non-drafted players etc) in the off-season, somewhere between Oct and Jan at night. Would be huge - look at the impact of AFLW already and it is absolute rubbish. 

The landscape will change significantly IMO - why? The AFL now owns Etihad stadium. I cant see the Victory or the Renegades being in the AFL's long-term tenant plans for Etihad (yes I know Victory signed a long-term deal just before the AFL took over) if the AFLX goes gang-busters.

The A-league needs to know its place, and understand the landscape. The season is too long, and is played in stadiums which are just too big and presents horribly on TV, and no atmosphere at best for most encounters.

 

[jw1739]

"Season too long"? - I can't agree with that. Eventually we have to stop running every time there's new competition, and stand and face up to it. 

[FulhamHeart]

Season too long ? What would you like a 7 game season ? 

A league can go toe to toe with big bash if it  first expands second recruits internationals who are quality and cheap e.g Ninkovic,Adrian Mierz etc and thirdly promotes some kids so the diehards can see the next crop of Socceroos. 

A league must go to 12 teams asap and eventually to sixteen. 

The brain dead morons running football are making us non competitive V other sports. 

Edited February 12, 2018 by FulhamHeart

[NewConvert]

50 minutes ago, FulhamHeart said:

Season too long ? What would you like a 7 game season ? 

A league can go toe to toe with big bash if it  first expands second recruits internationals who are quality and cheap e.g Ninkovic,Adrian Mierz etc and thirdly promotes some kids so the diehards can see the next crop of Socceroos. 

A league must go to 12 teams asap and eventually to sixteen. 

The brain dead morons running football are making us non competitive V other sports. 

You are not saying anything terribly new.

Most people on this forum believe that the competition should go to twelve teams and then either fourteen or sixteen. However those old enough remember quite clearly the old NSL and the subsequent chaos. They had promotion/relegation, there were countless numbers of teams, many in existance for a few years, and the game had stagnated.

It has also been noted that half the clubs in the AFL run at a loss and they have an equalisation fund. Right now the a-league clubs depend on the generosity of their owners.

In another thread it has also been noted that the quality of the AFL has decreased since they went to 18 teams. Right now there are players in the a-league that are quite pedestrian but there are few incentives to develop youth nor have the local scouts been able to unearth them from the local comps. But somehow additional clubs will be able to find quality locals that the existing clubs have not?

Finally saying that cheap quality visa players will be easy to find. Ange noted how difficult it was to access overseas players from Australia on the Roar's budget which was one of the reasons that he went to Victory because they would be able to fly him to Europe for a couple of weeks to view players in person - right now only three clubs have the budget to have coaches to travel overseas to look at potential visa players: Victory, City and Sydney.  And the number of players that have come to the league with big reputations only to flounder in the harder summer conditions as well as the physicality of the a-league (not to mention the sub-standard refereeing).

Cricket is being kept afloat by India alone, otherwise participation numbers are decreasing and the salaries would be a lot smaller if India were to stop the funding.

However I do agree that the current FFA board and executive are a huge disappointment, lacking vision, nous, marketing strategy and negotiating skills.

[kingofhearts]

Speaking of expansion funnily enough:

 

 

[haz]

59 minutes ago, kingofhearts said:

Speaking of expansion funnily enough:

 

 

Should be next season

[jeffplz]

What's in South Sydney?

So its the equivalent of a wollongong wolves expansion but it's not wollongong wolves

[CityHeart]

12 hours ago, FulhamHeart said:

Season too long ? What would you like a 7 game season ? 

A home & away season. The season length should correlate to the number of teams or it risks irrelevant, low drawing and low-rating games. Surprise Surprise.

It really isn't that difficult. 

[Blackout]

9 hours ago, jeffplz said:

What's in South Sydney?

So its the equivalent of a wollongong wolves expansion but it's not wollongong wolves

1. $

2. Just wait til they invariably play 5-6 home games a year at WIN Stadium, to "bring the game to Wollongong".

[HEARTinator]

23 hours ago, NewConvert said:

You are not saying anything terribly new.

Most people on this forum believe that the competition should go to twelve teams and then either fourteen or sixteen. However those old enough remember quite clearly the old NSL and the subsequent chaos. They had promotion/relegation, there were countless numbers of teams, many in existance for a few years, and the game had stagnated.

It has also been noted that half the clubs in the AFL run at a loss and they have an equalisation fund. Right now the a-league clubs depend on the generosity of their owners.

In another thread it has also been noted that the quality of the AFL has decreased since they went to 18 teams. Right now there are players in the a-league that are quite pedestrian but there are few incentives to develop youth nor have the local scouts been able to unearth them from the local comps. But somehow additional clubs will be able to find quality locals that the existing clubs have not?

Finally saying that cheap quality visa players will be easy to find. Ange noted how difficult it was to access overseas players from Australia on the Roar's budget which was one of the reasons that he went to Victory because they would be able to fly him to Europe for a couple of weeks to view players in person - right now only three clubs have the budget to have coaches to travel overseas to look at potential visa players: Victory, City and Sydney.  And the number of players that have come to the league with big reputations only to flounder in the harder summer conditions as well as the physicality of the a-league (not to mention the sub-standard refereeing).

Cricket is being kept afloat by India alone, otherwise participation numbers are decreasing and the salaries would be a lot smaller if India were to stop the funding.

However I do agree that the current FFA board and executive are a huge disappointment, lacking vision, nous, marketing strategy and negotiating skills.

Interesting to look at NSL teams over the years. Here is an interesting list https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Soccer_League. I count 42 teams competed over the years. You can see that apart from the two conference 24 team system from 1984-87, there were around 13 to 16 teams per year. But it's generally admitted that the NSL was poorly run and without meaningful media exposure (e.g. ill fated Channel 7 rights deal) it never got traction. Even with the A-league on Foxtel and shown on SBS and now 10, it struggles for mainstream eyeballs week in week out.

IMO we need to move to an independent A-league and expansion to 12/14 teams ASAP. And somewhere down the track we could have pro/rel - some day.

[NewConvert]

9 hours ago, HEARTinator said:

Interesting to look at NSL teams over the years. Here is an interesting list https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Soccer_League. I count 42 teams competed over the years. You can see that apart from the two conference 24 team system from 1984-87, there were around 13 to 16 teams per year. But it's generally admitted that the NSL was poorly run and without meaningful media exposure (e.g. ill fated Channel 7 rights deal) it never got traction. Even with the A-league on Foxtel and shown on SBS and now 10, it struggles for mainstream eyeballs week in week out.

IMO we need to move to an independent A-league and expansion to 12/14 teams ASAP. And somewhere down the track we could have pro/rel - some day.

The opinion these days is that it was poorly run. Not so back then - even Collingwood and Carlton entered teams into the NSL. The channel 7 deal was bad but that highlights to me why you need big end of town people to run the competition.

Today the landscape has changed to greater professionalism, better amenities for consumers, greater competition for consumer attention and bigger budgets. I can't see how expanding the competition today will assist the a-league. This would mean that there are at least a lazy $6M (more like $12M) doing nothing. Then where would the additional quality Australian players come from without diluting our existing clubs? Oh, and what about the administration quality? Let's face it, we have had quite a few duds at the FFA and some of the clubs admin leave a lot to be desired.

For me, the moratorium should stay for at least two years. Change the rules so that there is a greater incentive to develop youth players (the finances will be difficult) at the expense of longer careers for players; tie a-league clubs to developmental zones intensely connected to the local clubs; give Wollongong Wolves the green light to prepare to enter the competition (this would dilute the Sydney FC/WSW strangle hold but I think that it would be achievable); create a Tasmanian team because the AFL is not interested so they are ripe to be plucked and that would be additional untapped market. When the new clubs come into existence, give them two years with an extra optional visa player.

The FFA should also create an international scouting network to assist the seven clubs that don't have the budget. Then each coach is allocated one continental tour to view and talk to players. The clubs should run the pool and budget.

[jw1739]

Oh no, not this "Tasmania" thing again! That'd be the quickest way for yet another A-League venture to go down the drain. Stick with population centres where there is already a genuine interest in football - even FFA has recognised that basic criterion.

[NewConvert]

12 hours ago, jw1739 said:

Oh no, not this "Tasmania" thing again! That'd be the quickest way for yet another A-League venture to go down the drain. Stick with population centres where there is already a genuine interest in football - even FFA has recognised that basic criterion.

By that criteria no expansion would occur outside of Sydney and maybe Melbourne. Tim Lane has repeatedly reported how football is beginning to overtake AFL and the state government of whatever persuasion are opened to have a state subsidized team for whatever code. Additionally we have Wellington Phoenix in the a-league, so if they can be in it why not Tassie? Admittedly, I have not met anyone who has had a good look at the numbers but I do know that Saul Eslake has crunched the numbers for an AFL side and he says that they are viable.

Finally, so what if the FFA has set the criteria? Right now I would not trust Gallop to know how to wipe his own arse. Their incompetence is becoming clearer by the day.

[jw1739]

FFA has not set the criteria for expansion clubs (which IIRC it promised to be completed by February 2017) but it has said that expansion has to be based on population centres, and IMO that's common sense. Quite apart from the fact Tasmania is not a population centre, but a collection of small populations none of which like any of the others, there is bugger all interest in football there. I lived there for nearly 15 years and would have been lucky to see more than 200 people at a senior match there, and they would have been mostly WAGs. I haven't looked to see the attendances at FFA Cup matches there, but I doubt that they are anything special.

It wouldn't surprise me at all to find that once all the numbers are known there are only limited options for expansion.

[NewConvert]

22 hours ago, jw1739 said:

FFA has not set the criteria for expansion clubs (which IIRC it promised to be completed by February 2017) but it has said that expansion has to be based on population centres, and IMO that's common sense. Quite apart from the fact Tasmania is not a population centre, but a collection of small populations none of which like any of the others, there is bugger all interest in football there. I lived there for nearly 15 years and would have been lucky to see more than 200 people at a senior match there, and they would have been mostly WAGs. I haven't looked to see the attendances at FFA Cup matches there, but I doubt that they are anything special.

It wouldn't surprise me at all to find that once all the numbers are known there are only limited options for expansion.

Highlights the FFA's ineptness. And basing things in population centres is common sense but that does not mean that you don't look to see if the landscape has changed or whether new opportunities have arisen. That is how Huawei broke into the world market by going to places like Zimbabwe, Botswana and Venezuela. The established players had neglected their homework and before they knew it they had lost major sales across Europe.

[haz]

2 Teams for 2019/20 season.... Ill believe it when I see it

Quote

 

FFA puts Hyundai A-League expansion, Congress resolution at top of 2018 agenda

Football Federation Australia’s Board has put expansion of the Hyundai A-League and a resolution to the game’s long-running Congress evolution debate at the top of its agenda for 2018 following a day-long strategy meeting in Sydney yesterday.

The Board also focussed on its priorities of football development initiatives, the Westfield W-League, preparations for the Westfield Matildas’ campaigns in the Algarve Cup and the AFC Asian Cup in April, and on the Caltex Socceroos preparations for the FIFA World Cup in Russia in June and the AFC Asian Cup in January next year.

Hyundai A-League

FFA’s directors have targeted the 2019-20 season as the start date for two new clubs.

More details about the formal process will be announced next month with the intention to have a decision later this year.

The Board also agreed in principle to create a new corporate framework for the A-League/W-League which could give clubs more input over the running of the league and potentially provide new investment opportunities for existing and new clubs.

It is an important step towards a new operating model, on which FFA management has been working for more than a year. The existing Hyundai A-League/Westfield W-League clubs and FFA’s Member Federations will be invited to participate in discussions regarding the formation of the framework.

In response to a general trend in sport to lower attendances and television audiences, which has been reflected in A-League metrics this season, FFA will collaborate with the A-League clubs and broadcasters FOX SPORTS and Network Ten on a fresh approach to marketing the league, in particular around the start of next season.

FFA Congress

The Board re-affirmed its support for the principle of an expanded Congress to enable broader representation within the game and significantly improve gender equality, while balancing the interests of each group.

FFA's initiative in establishing a Congress Review Working Group with FIFA and the Asian Football Confederation (AFC), will create a forum for voices across the whole of the game to be heard in this important step in the evolution of football in Australia.

Officials from FIFA and the AFC will join with FFA in Sydney from 20-22 February to meet with representatives from a range of interest groups within the football community including Member Federations, Hyundai A-League/Westfield W-League clubs, Professional Footballers Australia, the Association of Australian Football Clubs, women’s football, referees, coaches and fans.

FIFA has defined the purpose of the Sydney meetings as follows:

1. To meet with the stakeholders (Member Federations, A-League clubs, PFA) and any other relevant interlocutors, such as the Association of Australian Football Clubs (AAFC), that have been established in the meantime.

2. Based on the feedback received, to define the terms of reference of the Congress review working group, which include its objective, composition, mandate and timeline

https://www.a-league.com.au/news/ffa-puts-hyundai-a-league-expansion-congress-resolution-top-2018-agenda

 

[Forever City]

Wollongong and Tasmania please.

[haz]

18 minutes ago, Forever City said:

Wollongong and Tasmania please.

In Order (for me)

Wollongong, Brisbane, South Melb (dont hate), Tasmainia, Canberra, Cairns (a little bias).

Fuck it, include them all

[Jovan]

Just another balls up in the making.

What happened to Fifa coming in and disbanding the current board and installing a normalisation committee. 

Nothing. 

New teams aren't going to fix shit. Its the same mentality at club level that if just get in a couple good players the club will improve. The entire league is flawed and run by muppets. 

[haz]

36 minutes ago, Jovan said:

Just another balls up in the making.

What happened to Fifa coming in and disbanding the current board and installing a normalisation committee. 

Nothing. 

New teams aren't going to fix shit. Its the same mentality at club level that if just get in a couple good players the club will improve. The entire league is flawed and run by muppets. 

Thats why theyve 'announced' (key word) it, FIFA are coming soon. Just smoke and mirrors from the FFA

[malloy]

2 hours ago, haz said:

Thats why theyve 'announced' (key word) it, FIFA are coming soon. Just smoke and mirrors from the FFA

I reckon its been announced because the teams they are gonna let in have been decided/want to let (someine mentioned the other day the Craig Foster bid has been given a wink and a nod) now they are just putting up the charade of a 'fair process'.

It is quite possible these teams have been let in on the basis they play ball with the ffa thus giving them more sway amongst clubs.

[haz]

34 minutes ago, malloy said:

I reckon its been announced because the teams they are gonna let in have been decided/want to let (someine mentioned the other day the Craig Foster bid has been given a wink and a nod) now they are just putting up the charade of a 'fair process'.

It is quite possible these teams have been let in on the basis they play ball with the ffa thus giving them more sway amongst clubs.

All it shows is how corrupt the FFA is run

[Jimmy]

Townsville and Gold Coast are the most logical choices.

[KSK_47]

9 hours ago, malloy said:

I reckon its been announced because the teams they are gonna let in have been decided/want to let 

This.

I am really hoping for a Tassie team but I really doubt it will happen

[jw1739]

1 hour ago, KSK_47 said:

This.

I am really hoping for a Tassie team but I really doubt it will happen

I'm thinking of banning anyone who mentions Tasmania in this thread from now on.

[kingofhearts]

8 hours ago, Jimmy said:

Townsville and Gold Coast are the most logical choices.

No love for Alice Springs and cairns? Both football powerhouses 

[KSK_47]

2 hours ago, jw1739 said:

I'm thinking of banning anyone who mentions Tasmania in this thread from now on.

Why? I live in Hobart now so I want a team down here

[kingofhearts]

1 minute ago, KSK_47 said:

Why? I live in Hobart now so I want a team down here

Fuck Hobart 

[Tangerine]

Tasmania wouldnt get more than about 5,000 at first but the sporting landscape is crying out for a Tasmanian sporting team. The hurricanes are all they’ve really got, no rugby, no top-level basketball, still no actual Tassie AFL team. For me that gives it a strong case. If you exclude Tassie on the basis of low supporter numbers then you should exclude other bids that will take supporters from existing teams - so no 2nd Brisbane team, no South Melbourne, no Freo, no Port Adelaide, South Sydney debatable....?

Plus, in contrast to the rest of the year, Tasmania is actually pretty awesome in the summer months.

As I’ve previously stated, there should be zero or two NZ teams. Having one is a waste of a license.

Edited February 18, 2018 by Tangerine

[GreenSeater]

10 hours ago, Tangerine said:

Tasmania wouldnt get more than about 5,000 at first but the sporting landscape is crying out for a Tasmanian sporting team. The hurricanes are all they’ve really got, no rugby, no top-level basketball, still no actual Tassie AFL team. For me that gives it a strong case. If you exclude Tassie on the basis of low supporter numbers then you should exclude other bids that will take supporters from existing teams - so no 2nd Brisbane team, no South Melbourne, no Freo, no Port Adelaide, South Sydney debatable....?

Plus, in contrast to the rest of the year, Tasmania is actually pretty awesome in the summer months.

As I’ve previously stated, there should be zero or two NZ teams. Having one is a waste of a license.

Hobart is a great town too, would be a mint away trip

[bt50]

13 minutes ago, GreenSeater said:

Hobart is a great town too, would be a mint away trip

We did end of season trip there in November. Can confirm, sick City for a piss up.

Pun definitely intended.

Edited February 18, 2018 by bt50

[KSK_47]

19 hours ago, Tangerine said:

Tasmania wouldnt get more than about 5,000 at first but the sporting landscape is crying out for a Tasmanian sporting team. The hurricanes are all they’ve really got, no rugby, no top-level basketball, still no actual Tassie AFL team. For me that gives it a strong case. If you exclude Tassie on the basis of low supporter numbers then you should exclude other bids that will take supporters from existing teams - so no 2nd Brisbane team, no South Melbourne, no Freo, no Port Adelaide, South Sydney debatable....?

Plus, in contrast to the rest of the year, Tasmania is actually pretty awesome in the summer months.

As I’ve previously stated, there should be zero or two NZ teams. Having one is a waste of a license.

At the risk of copping a ban for talking about Tassie in this thread, football federation Tasmania have said they are no longer interested in hosting victory games because it's counterproductive and they would rather spend the money and focus their energy on getting an a-league team down here. 

There is a lot of business support down here too so there will be loads of options for sponsors. Crowds won't be huge because of population obviously, but I reckon if it's a competitive team numbers will be pretty decent.

[thisphantomfortress]

It's gong and brissy 2 for those interested put me down in bs watch

[haz]

5 minutes ago, thisphantomfortress said:

It's gong and brissy 2 for those interested put me down in bs watch

I heard its Alice Spings and Wagga Wagga

[KSK_47]

1 hour ago, thisphantomfortress said:

It's gong

Wolves or?

[Melbourne White]

Tassie needs a sports team. Criminal how it doesn't have an AFL team. Would make for a great away trip.

[Jovan]

I think all this talk on which city/town should get it is flawed. Whichever teams get in you will heaps of people bitching about better candidates. 

Ultimately it must be merit based on results. So awarding some new start up team is just a continuation of a flawed system. The teams that should be eligible must be the NPL champions. If then they either don't satisfy clear and open criteria then the next best team gets a chance. 

But without promotion relegation you will get this endless debate on who should or should not be admitted. 

Sadly none of this will occur and if new teams get admitted  (which i doubt) they will be no clear reason why.

[thisphantomfortress]

1 hour ago, Melbourne White said:

Tassie needs a sports team. Criminal how it doesn't have an AFL team. Would make for a great away trip.

More like criminal people are discussing them having a team. Market of 600k is unsustainable