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On 15/08/2019 at 9:00 PM, jw1739 said:

"...the future to include a 16-team competition via a regionally targeted expansion plan..."

16 clubs should be at least a preliminary target, but I wonder what they mean, precisely, by "regionally targeted"? I hope they're aware that 60% of Australia's population lives in the cities of Melbourne, Sydney, Brisbane and Perth. 

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23 hours ago, jw1739 said:

16 clubs should be at least a preliminary target, but I wonder what they mean, precisely, by "regionally targeted"? I hope they're aware that 60% of Australia's population lives in the cities of Melbourne, Sydney, Brisbane and Perth. 

Maybe it's a direct reference to how our lack of geographical specification has made it difficult attracting fans, as opposed to the likes of Western Sydney Wanderers. 

I'm in favour of more diversity anyway, cities like Wollongong, Canberra and Hobart/Launceston would all do justice to the A-League by being in it.

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2 hours ago, Nate said:

Maybe it's a direct reference to how our lack of geographical specification has made it difficult attracting fans, as opposed to the likes of Western Sydney Wanderers. 

I'm in favour of more diversity anyway, cities like Wollongong, Canberra and Hobart/Launceston would all do justice to the A-League by being in it.

IMO it's a waste of time  etc. pushing the Tasmania barrow. Wollongong perhaps, and a big question on Canberra. It's not just population number, it's the demographics. I lived in Hobart for 15 years. "Soccer" just wasn't on the radar of the population and "footy" struggled to get a crowd. And Launceston and Hobart are rival cities, not one entity just because they're in the same state.

In Melbourne it's going to be very difficult to justify a further additional team. Likewise to "regionalise" Victory and City, and I'd say we're pretty much lumbered with them as they are now. it would be unreasonable to move Victory out of the city - their attendances justify them staying just as they are, and equally unreasonable to move City - just because we're part of CFG doesn't mean that we should absorb all the cost of geographically separating the two clubs. Melbourne's public transport system is a radial system and there are not good cross-city services - even if we did build a stadium at Bundoora IMO overall we would lose more fans. Much of change around the A-League is being orchestrated by Simon Pearce, and I can't see him setting out to do something that might back-fire on his own club.

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1 hour ago, Tommykins said:

HaHaHa. Loving every minute of it. Heart's decision to get into bed with Latrobe University and then City's to build CFA there remains a master-stroke by Scott Munn.

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With January approaching expect Sydney to sign an Asian player for their ACL run again as they only have 4 Visa players atm. Very smart accounting being able to sign a player on a 6 month contract and essentially offer them double the wage you would've offered for a 12 month contract. Bigger question is which of their 4 foreigners misses out on ACL as all have been performing brilliantly, it'd be out of Ninkovic and Baumjohann as they haven't got any depth up front to cover the loss of LeFondre or Kosta.

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Quote

 

https://www.smh.com.au/sport/soccer/open-season-a-league-urged-to-explore-feasibility-of-winter-switch-20200107-p53plq.html
 

Australia's players union and a leading broadcast rights expert have urged the A-League to properly explore the feasibility of a radical switch back to winter that would put it head-to-head with the AFL and NRL.

Thirty years after the idea of summer soccer was first raised by revered journalist and FFA hall of famer Andrew Dettre, there is a growing belief within some sections of the game that it may be better off taking on the bigger codes rather than trying to avoid them.
 

Several W-League and youth league matches have been postponed or cancelled this season as a result of sweltering heat or smoke haze, while A-League players have long complained about the fatigue of playing through summer and the impact it has on the standard of matches.

The effects of a particularly brutal Australian summer and the prospect of even hotter seasons to come as a consequence of climate change have put the debate into even sharper focus.

A winter calendar would align the A-League not only with Asian leagues but the state-based competitions throughout Australia, removing one of the major obstacles to the ultimate goal of a top-to-bottom football pyramid with promotion and relegation.

Where 12 months ago I would have said definitively 'no, that's the craziest thing they could do', because of the shape it's in now, it is time to rethink things.Colin Smith, head of consultancy Global Media & Sports

It would also present a raft of significant challenges, not least the availability of stadia during AFL, NRL and Super Rugby season, and the prospect of being drowned out in media space by rival sports. Those are the chief reasons why a switch is not on the A-League's radar and viewed as completely unworkable by FFA, as well as the fact that current broadcasters Fox Sports would almost certainly not be supportive.But with the A-League's television ratings and attendances on a concerning downward trajectory, and the competition failing to capitalise on the "clear air"of summer, the time is nigh for some "out-of-the-box thinking" and research, according to broadcast rights advisor Colin Smith."You're being swamped as it is," Smith, the head of consultancy Global Media & Sports, told the Herald.

 

IMO the minimum that has to be done is start earlier or end later and have a summer break window. Wont lie, I havent gone to games when I have seen the temperature at times and the games standard drops off a cliff too

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4 minutes ago, Dylan said:

IMO the minimum that has to be done is start earlier or end later and have a summer break window. Wont lie, I havent gone to games when I have seen the temperature at times and the games standard drops off a cliff too

As I see it there's no alternative but to avoid the summer heat. Some Euro leagues have a break to avoid the depths of their winter, so a break to avoid the extremes of summer seems feasible to me.

There's no doubt in my mind though that this is just one of the many issues that the League has to address.

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2 hours ago, jw1739 said:

As I see it there's no alternative but to avoid the summer heat. Some Euro leagues have a break to avoid the depths of their winter, so a break to avoid the extremes of summer seems feasible to me.

There's no doubt in my mind though that this is just one of the many issues that the League has to address.

Well Summer is only going to get worse from here on in. So IMO there is not going to be a choice in the future. Plus, if you want Pro/Rel eventually there is probably 0% chance to upend the entire NPL season and move it to summer. The way I see it is that the crowds arnt going to get much worse than they are so might as well make the jump sooner rather than later. OR move the entire league to Tasmania and NZ

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Totally agree, the quality of the game is really poor, not only from 1 hot game but backing up week after week during summer. 

I think the game is mature enough to go back to winter, seriously most clubs are supported by their rusted on faithfuls and would support whenever they play. 

My only concern would be the beer doesn't work so well in winter and I might need to buy a hip flask.

 

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A winter comp would align with the rest of the Australian football pyramid and allow for prom/rel in the future (?).

Fox Sports ratings being down? The advent of streaming services may have made it difficult to judge this. Kayo and Telstra's 'My Football' might hide the real numbers of people watching - don't know for sure. However attendances at games has been on the decline. Average attendance per season:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/A-League_attendance

2005–06    10,956
2006–07    12,911
2007–08    14,610
2008–09    12,180
2009–10    9,793
2010–11    8,429
2011–12    10,497
2012–13    12,347
2013–14    13,041
2014–15    12,511
2015–16    12,326
2016–17    12,294
2017–18    10,671
2018–19    10,411
 

Not sure that playing games in winter in parallel with AFL/NRL will help those figures.

 

https://www.theage.com.au/sport/soccer/jason-culina-it-s-not-possible-to-perform-as-well-in-summer-as-in-winter-20200108-p53pvc.html

Jason Culina: 'It's not possible to perform as well in summer as in winter'

By Jason Culina

January 8, 2020 — 6.27pm

It was 20 years ago but I will never forget the feeling of training in the European winter coming from the Australian summer.

I joined Ajax from Sydney Olympic in 1999. The pace of play and technical standard was a class above but almost instantly, I felt I could operate quicker. In the Australian summer, I could make three or four sprints before I was out of breath. By the time my first winter in the Netherlands arrived, I was sprinting eight or nine times. If I really needed, I could probably make a 10th before being out of puff.

In Europe, players are fitter, stronger and faster. That's just the reality, we are not yet up to the quality of Europe. In saying that, it's a hell of a lot easier playing in cooler conditions and 99 per cent of players will agree.

Whether it was in the Eredivisie, UEFA Champions League or international games, I could not only perform better and faster in European winters but my recovery was also a lot better and quicker.

I could play two, three games a week at a high level in Europe but in the A-League, I would lose up to four kilograms after games in heat and take days to recover.

Performances suffer but not as much as the wellbeing of players. It's not just the heat of the Australian of summer that takes it out of you but the rock hard fields at that time of year. We have to train on them every day and it takes a toll on players' joints, knees and their backs. As I learned, the older players feel it the most.

My career was almost ended by a serious knee injury in 2011 that was caused by wear and tear. There wasn't a single factor or incident that caused the injury but the hard conditions in Australia might have accelerated the deterioration. If I had my time again, I would have managed my work loads and wellbeing differently. My attitude was always to train, train and train. The more I trained, the better I played. That was how we worked on the softer grounds and cold winters of Europe but I shouldn't have applied the same intensity daily in the A-League. In hindsight, I would have skipped a training session here and there because of my age and the hard pitches. I should have been smarter as a player.

Over seven years with the Socceroos, I played games in South America, North Africa, the Middle East, Asia and Europe. I experienced heat, humidity, harsh winters and altitude but the most difficult climate I've had to work in might well be the Australian summer. A one-off game in the humidity of South East Asia poses challenges but the weekly grind of playing and training in heat, on hard pitches and having to travel great distances frequently makes the A-League very, very difficult. You simply can't extract the same kind of performance out of yourself playing here in Australia compared to how you will play in Europe. The human body is not made for that. It’s like a car, if it overheats then it doesn’t perform as well.

When I played on the Gold Coast, sometimes we trained at 7am in the morning just to avoid the peak of the heat. If we didn't, we would be absolutely wrecked by the weekend and not able to perform in games.

That's why we should start talking about moving back to a winter competition. Whether we like it or not, the A-League is in the entertainment business. If you are putting something on TV screens, you want it to be good quality. Fox Sports ratings are down and that's purely because not enough people think it's entertaining. If moving the competition to winter helps to improve the quality, you will get more people watching.

At the end of the day, football players are entertainers and if we can’t entertain, people won’t watch. That’s the way it works.

In my opinion, moving towards a winter league makes sense. It realigns us with Asia, youth football and fixes some issues we have with the Australian league. It obviously means we compete with other codes like rugby league and AFL but we are already competing with cricket, basketball and other sports in summer. If we believe in our sport then we shouldn’t care about who we compete with.

Now is the time to start the conversation about moving the A-League to winter.

Jason Culina played for PSV Eindhoven, Ajax and FC Twente in the Netherlands. He made 58 appearances for the Socceroos and was part of the 2006 and 2010 World Cup campaigns and played for Gold Coast United and Sydney FC in the A-League.

 

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4 hours ago, HEARTinator said:

A winter comp would align with the rest of the Australian football pyramid and allow for prom/rel in the future (?).

Fox Sports ratings being down? The advent of streaming services may have made it difficult to judge this. Kayo and Telstra's 'My Football' might hide the real numbers of people watching - don't know for sure. However attendances at games has been on the decline. Average attendance per season:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/A-League_attendance

2005–06    10,956
2006–07    12,911
2007–08    14,610
2008–09    12,180
2009–10    9,793
2010–11    8,429
2011–12    10,497
2012–13    12,347
2013–14    13,041
2014–15    12,511
2015–16    12,326
2016–17    12,294
2017–18    10,671
2018–19    10,411
 

Not sure that playing games in winter in parallel with AFL/NRL will help those figures.

 

https://www.theage.com.au/sport/soccer/jason-culina-it-s-not-possible-to-perform-as-well-in-summer-as-in-winter-20200108-p53pvc.html

Jason Culina: 'It's not possible to perform as well in summer as in winter'

By Jason Culina

January 8, 2020 — 6.27pm

It was 20 years ago but I will never forget the feeling of training in the European winter coming from the Australian summer.

I joined Ajax from Sydney Olympic in 1999. The pace of play and technical standard was a class above but almost instantly, I felt I could operate quicker. In the Australian summer, I could make three or four sprints before I was out of breath. By the time my first winter in the Netherlands arrived, I was sprinting eight or nine times. If I really needed, I could probably make a 10th before being out of puff.

In Europe, players are fitter, stronger and faster. That's just the reality, we are not yet up to the quality of Europe. In saying that, it's a hell of a lot easier playing in cooler conditions and 99 per cent of players will agree.

Whether it was in the Eredivisie, UEFA Champions League or international games, I could not only perform better and faster in European winters but my recovery was also a lot better and quicker.

I could play two, three games a week at a high level in Europe but in the A-League, I would lose up to four kilograms after games in heat and take days to recover.

Performances suffer but not as much as the wellbeing of players. It's not just the heat of the Australian of summer that takes it out of you but the rock hard fields at that time of year. We have to train on them every day and it takes a toll on players' joints, knees and their backs. As I learned, the older players feel it the most.

My career was almost ended by a serious knee injury in 2011 that was caused by wear and tear. There wasn't a single factor or incident that caused the injury but the hard conditions in Australia might have accelerated the deterioration. If I had my time again, I would have managed my work loads and wellbeing differently. My attitude was always to train, train and train. The more I trained, the better I played. That was how we worked on the softer grounds and cold winters of Europe but I shouldn't have applied the same intensity daily in the A-League. In hindsight, I would have skipped a training session here and there because of my age and the hard pitches. I should have been smarter as a player.

Over seven years with the Socceroos, I played games in South America, North Africa, the Middle East, Asia and Europe. I experienced heat, humidity, harsh winters and altitude but the most difficult climate I've had to work in might well be the Australian summer. A one-off game in the humidity of South East Asia poses challenges but the weekly grind of playing and training in heat, on hard pitches and having to travel great distances frequently makes the A-League very, very difficult. You simply can't extract the same kind of performance out of yourself playing here in Australia compared to how you will play in Europe. The human body is not made for that. It’s like a car, if it overheats then it doesn’t perform as well.

When I played on the Gold Coast, sometimes we trained at 7am in the morning just to avoid the peak of the heat. If we didn't, we would be absolutely wrecked by the weekend and not able to perform in games.

That's why we should start talking about moving back to a winter competition. Whether we like it or not, the A-League is in the entertainment business. If you are putting something on TV screens, you want it to be good quality. Fox Sports ratings are down and that's purely because not enough people think it's entertaining. If moving the competition to winter helps to improve the quality, you will get more people watching.

At the end of the day, football players are entertainers and if we can’t entertain, people won’t watch. That’s the way it works.

In my opinion, moving towards a winter league makes sense. It realigns us with Asia, youth football and fixes some issues we have with the Australian league. It obviously means we compete with other codes like rugby league and AFL but we are already competing with cricket, basketball and other sports in summer. If we believe in our sport then we shouldn’t care about who we compete with.

Now is the time to start the conversation about moving the A-League to winter.

Jason Culina played for PSV Eindhoven, Ajax and FC Twente in the Netherlands. He made 58 appearances for the Socceroos and was part of the 2006 and 2010 World Cup campaigns and played for Gold Coast United and Sydney FC in the A-League.

 

Crowds are just going to get worse as the temperature in Summer rises. Besides, I think that taking a hit to crowd levels, and remember the hits to crowds are just an assumption, wont matter in the long run. Also Id dare say that crowd attendance makes up a small part of a clubs budget so im not sure whether a hit to crowd numbers matters in the short term.

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Stadia availability is the biggest problem but not insurmountable. Just off the top of my head you’d have both Melbourne teams sharing with Storm and Rebels, WSW sharing with Parramatta and Sydney would eventually share with one or two League teams. Newcastle with Newcastle, Perth, Adelaide, Mariners and Phoenix would be fine. Bulls wouldn’t share? Canberra would have to share though. AAMI Park would be very busy.

Anyway, I would worry about the attendances and exposure. At least now we just take on cricket. Imagine taking on AFL and NRL, in addition to amateur players and people focused on their own local clubs. We’d also lose the halo effect of PL and European football, however big that is. Would we even make it on the last page of the sports section?

Positives and negatives to it. Not sure I like it but something has to be done. Maybe just more night football and starting the season a bit earlier.

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I can't see any benefit to it. When there's some rain in November the attendances dwindle, Imagine what it'd be like in June at 12 degrees and pissing down. Then we get winter pitches that are being used by multiple clubs, it took Brisbane until recently to have a semi-decent pitch without the Broncos chopping it up every week. I'd rather we try for some earlier kick-offs during summer, even 11am/12pm on a Saturday when the weather is predicted to be hot, there needs to be versatility in the broadcasting deal.

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On 04/08/2020 at 7:19 PM, jw1739 said:

Jeez, the League needs to think carefully about changing from summer football. I don't think too many would turn out to watch on a night like this - under 6 degrees and raining.

I reckon the 40 degree days have the same effect

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2 hours ago, Dylan said:

I reckon the 40 degree days have the same effect

Any extreme weather will affect both the football and the attendance. My point really is that the League needs to think very carefully about what it is trying to achieve when it considers - if it considers - changing the season from what we have been used to in recent times. At this stage I can't see that a change to winter will improve physical attendances or on-line interest from what it is now.

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3 hours ago, jw1739 said:

Any extreme weather will affect both the football and the attendance. My point really is that the League needs to think very carefully about what it is trying to achieve when it considers - if it considers - changing the season from what we have been used to in recent times. At this stage I can't see that a change to winter will improve physical attendances or on-line interest from what it is now.

It would be utterly foolish to contend with AFL and NRL! The league would become even more insignificant... 

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Disagree.

Changing to winter, actually playing in the calendar year makes more sense, that is, similar to say Japan or Korea.

Start in February (late) or March and finish early December. 

Ultimately its about the quality on the pitch, playing mostly in middle of summer will never lift the quality of the game. 

Also aligning with NPL and grassroots levels as well as Asia just makes sense to me.

Now competing directly against AFL and NRL won't be easy, but I'm convinced the level of interest say the rusted on 100 to 150k will remain and as the game quality improves and the authenticity so too the passion and interest. 

The game needs to back itself. 

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12 hours ago, Jovan said:

Disagree.

Changing to winter, actually playing in the calendar year makes more sense, that is, similar to say Japan or Korea.

Start in February (late) or March and finish early December. 

Ultimately its about the quality on the pitch, playing mostly in middle of summer will never lift the quality of the game. 

Also aligning with NPL and grassroots levels as well as Asia just makes sense to me.

Now competing directly against AFL and NRL won't be easy, but I'm convinced the level of interest say the rusted on 100 to 150k will remain and as the game quality improves and the authenticity so too the passion and interest. 

The game needs to back itself. 

I agree that much depends on quality on the pitch. IMO that's one of the things that needs to be addressed irrespective of when the season is. We really do need some crowd-pulling players.

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16 hours ago, Jovan said:

Now competing directly against AFL and NRL won't be easy, but I'm convinced the level of interest say the rusted on 100 to 150k will remain and as the game quality improves and the authenticity so too the passion and interest. 

The game needs to back itself. 

Could you please clarify what you mean in regards to 100 to 150k rusted on fans? From what league? A-League? 🤔🙄

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