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The Coronavirus Thread (We nearly didn't see City in the 2021 Grand Final)


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3 hours ago, NewConvert said:

Given that after the recession of 1991 ~140k people who were able to work, never worked again, I wonder how many we will have after this depression.

The economic aftermath of this scares me far more than the pandemic itself. And dont get me wrong, im taking COVID-19 very, very seriously.

And once again the poor will bear the biggest burden. Suicides, drug use and homelessness will likely skyrocket.

Which is why the 'shut everything down' types annoy me somewhat; it's far more complicated than that. We need to be VERY careful that the cure doesnt end up worse than the disease.

Edited by bt50
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4 hours ago, bt50 said:

The economic aftermath of this scares me far more than the pandemic itself. And dont get me wrong, im taking COVID-19 very, very seriously.

And once again the poor will bear the biggest burden. Suicides, drug use and homelessness will likely skyrocket.

Which is why the 'shut everything down' types annoy me somewhat; it's far more complicated than that. We need to be VERY careful that the cure doesnt end up worse than the disease.

Its the pressure and constant need of wanting everything in a modern society which created such a fragile system in the first place.

Don't you think a system that can't take a 1 month break was destined to fail one way or another? 

 

 

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39 minutes ago, HeartFc said:

Its the pressure and constant need of wanting everything in a modern society which created such a fragile system in the first place.

Don't you think a system that can't take a 1 month break was destined to fail one way or another? 

True.

But let me give you a couple of examples of where it is Victorian State Government rules that force me to make trips out into the community that otherwise would not be the case. My late wife died last October. As the executor of her will and the beneficiary I'm in the final stages of tidying up her estate.

Despite the current risk to older people, the current crackdown on movements and gatherings and advice to over-70s to "stay home", to transfer the title of her home from her name to mine I had to go to the local Post Office for an Identity Check, including photograph, because of the rules of the State Land Titles Office. And to transfer the registration of her car to me I had to provide VicRoads with a certified copy of her death certificate, and a certified copy of either her will or the grant of probate - which of course required a trip to get the documents certified and then another trip to the Post Office to mail them. All for a car worth $5000 that sits in the same parking spot at the same address as it did before.

Fucking unnecessary red tape. As and when we come out of this I hope all these sorts of things get sorted out. God help anyone tidying up after a death in the current crisis - they won't be able to get started.

Rightly so people breaching the present rules on gatherings etc. should be named, shamed and fined. But Governments also need to look at what their out-dated rules are forcing people to do.

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Ye I think red tape is all part of the system that slowly takes away our choices in life. We lock ourselves in outrageous mortgages while having to follow an overtop set of rules dictated by an overspending, incompetent government. Covid-19 might be the beginning of a revolution in terms of what we are willing to give up for what we believe gives us happiness.

Recently, I came to the conclusion that I was the happiness in my life when I had less material posessions, less distraction, more time, surrounded by nature, ocean and unexplored landscape. The feeling of self sufficiency mixed with a vulnerability in a raw and sometimes dangerous surrounding gave me a huge appreciation of life in general. Getting out of your comfort zone and focusing on just on single thing at a time (staying alive) is the ultimate in human experience. We just never do that anymore these days. 

I believe this personal break through was a massive key to unlocking doors into my mental health. This may sound off topic but I think it makes a lot of sense in terms of the high levels of depression in big modern cities.

Will Coronavirus smash us so bad that we see ourselves in a 5 year ecomonic depression? Will we re-think about what we really need in life? 

Edited by HeartFc
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10 hours ago, bt50 said:

The economic aftermath of this scares me far more than the pandemic itself. And dont get me wrong, im taking COVID-19 very, very seriously.

And once again the poor will bear the biggest burden. Suicides, drug use and homelessness will likely skyrocket.

Which is why the 'shut everything down' types annoy me somewhat; it's far more complicated than that. We need to be VERY careful that the cure doesnt end up worse than the disease.

Well to me the aftermath can be handled by pragmatic bureaucrats and politicians. After all it was Margaret Thatcher that lifted the bans on importing avocados into the UK which had been restricted as a luxury item during WWII and Tony Blair that paid of the last of the war loans. My great fear will be that ideologues will continue to drive policy.

4 hours ago, jw1739 said:

True.

But let me give you a couple of examples of where it is Victorian State Government rules that force me to make trips out into the community that otherwise would not be the case. My late wife died last October. As the executor of her will and the beneficiary I'm in the final stages of tidying up her estate.

Despite the current risk to older people, the current crackdown on movements and gatherings and advice to over-70s to "stay home", to transfer the title of her home from her name to mine I had to go to the local Post Office for an Identity Check, including photograph, because of the rules of the State Land Titles Office. And to transfer the registration of her car to me I had to provide VicRoads with a certified copy of her death certificate, and a certified copy of either her will or the grant of probate - which of course required a trip to get the documents certified and then another trip to the Post Office to mail them. All for a car worth $5000 that sits in the same parking spot at the same address as it did before.

Fucking unnecessary red tape. As and when we come out of this I hope all these sorts of things get sorted out. God help anyone tidying up after a death in the current crisis - they won't be able to get started.

Rightly so people breaching the present rules on gatherings etc. should be named, shamed and fined. But Governments also need to look at what their out-dated rules are forcing people to do.

I got bad news for you. Mitchell shire rates still come under my father's name although he has been gone for 25 years and we have filled countless certified forms. We gave up in the end.

2 hours ago, HeartFc said:

Ye I think red tape is all part of the system that slowly takes away our choices in life. We lock ourselves in outrageous mortgages while having to follow an overtop set of rules dictated by an overspending, incompetent government. Covid-19 might be the beginning of a revolution in terms of what we are willing to give up for what we believe gives us happiness.

Recently, I came to the conclusion that I was the happiness in my life when I had less material posessions, less distraction, more time, surrounded by nature, ocean and unexplored landscape. The feeling of self sufficiency mixed with a vulnerability in a raw and sometimes dangerous surrounding gave me a huge appreciation of life in general. Getting out of your comfort zone and focusing on just on single thing at a time (staying alive) is the ultimate in human experience. We just never do that anymore these days. 

I believe this personal break through was a massive key to unlocking doors into my mental health. This may sound off topic but I think it makes a lot of sense in terms of the high levels of depression in big modern cities.

Will Coronavirus smash us so bad that we see ourselves in a 5 year ecomonic depression? Will we re-think about what we really need in life? 

Who are you and what have you done with HeartFC? He was never a greenie/hippy/buddhist/"give me a hug" type of bloke....

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1 hour ago, belaguttman said:

playmaker, my strongest medical advice to you is that if you treat this like a conspiracy

With all due respect your medical advice is worthless,  I will rely on the actual data thanks.

As i have said, i have been in medical sciences my whole working life and my ability to discern truth from analysing medical information far out ways your blind opinion.

But you are free to choose what you want to believe.

1 hour ago, belaguttman said:

you are putting your own life, and that of many others at risk

Who is suggesting I am not following the rules?

Just because I am thinking freely and seeking truth through real scientific processes, doesn't mean I am being unlawful, unless I was living in Nazi Germany or China that is.

1 hour ago, HeartFc said:

So a bunch of lazy drop kick journalists recycling images just made you believe in a conspiracy. Bravo.

No my point is that it is a film set.

It's not even real.

Production started in 2010 and is about a CIA interrogator that is lured into a ruse that puts London at risk of a biological attack.

Coincidence?

I will let you decide.

Edited by playmaker
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34 minutes ago, NewConvert said:

Who are you and what have you done with HeartFC? He was never a greenie/hippy/buddhist/"give me a hug" type of bloke....

Definitely not giving anyone a hug anytime soon!😅

I think I've always been a free spirit type but realistic about how far that lifestyle can go. I'm all about hard work and personal responsibility but have no interest in the rat race whats so ever. 

I'd rather live on an island, scuba dive and spearfish 3 times a week than live in the city and have a 5 million in the bank. I did camp every year for 2 months down at Mallacoota for about 15 years so I've always loved the great outdoors. I guess you could say I'm having a early mid life (identity) crisis. 

 

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8 minutes ago, playmaker said:

No my point is that it is a film set.

It's not even real.

Production started in 2010 and is about a CIA interrogator that is lured into a ruse that puts London at risk of a biological attack.

Coincidence?

I will let you decide.

Look, ill explain how these images often get thrown into the mix. People take screen grabs of random pictures from everywhere, they simply have to match the subject matter and have a dramatic screen grab and they go viral. The fkn loser journalists with no integrity come along, jump on the google machine and take these images on face value. They are constantly publishing shit without any research and it leads to MSM networks with egg on their faces. This is simply a bi product of 'the internet vs dinosaur media'. Of course there are naive people  who take these incidents as the new order kicking in when in reality its some fkn turd on 45k who cant do their job properly. 

Check out the stuff 4chan has made the MSM publish due to lazy journalism. Its mind blowing how easily fooled they are.

 

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56 minutes ago, playmaker said:

With all due respect your medical advice is worthless,  I will rely on the actual data thanks.

As i have said, i have been in medical sciences my whole working life and my ability to discern truth from analysing medical information far out ways your blind opinion.

But you are free to choose what you want to believe.

Actual data from where? a social media post? Find the original images, date stamped with location data, their original publication dates, and then you can make a case rather than just repeating conspiracy posts and disinformation

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19 minutes ago, kingofhearts said:

When is the country just going to officially shut down instead of putting in all this half ass measures? Might as well just do a full shut down if you're essentially going to ban everything anyway. Should just go full great Britain

Shutdown is only helpful if it's a part of a strategy, and there's no benefit without clear evidence of increasing community transmission. We don't have access to that data, but I'm assuming that each state is testing random community samples. It won't eradicate the virus on it's own (despite what China is claiming). It provides breathing space for the health system to recover and move people through, but more importantly, it allows us to stock up on medical consumables (that aren't due to arrive for a month), testing kits and contact tracers. The contact tracers are the backbone of an effective response, even though the work is not glamorous.

As the restrictions are slowly eased, it needs to come with extensive community screening, proactive isolation/enforcement etc., that's what'll keep the virus at bay whilst we can get on with our lives. As acquired immunity in the community approaches 60%, the virus finds it increasingly difficult to find vulnerable hosts. There'll be isolated outbreaks so we'd have to stay vigilant, but that's a proven way of controlling this. A vaccine will follow down the track.

Edited by belaguttman
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37 minutes ago, kingofhearts said:

When is the country just going to officially shut down instead of putting in all this half ass measures? Might as well just do a full shut down if you're essentially going to ban everything anyway. Should just go full great Britain

If you want to cook a live lobster, you don't put it straight into boiling water. Just like this process, they will slowly stack on the restrictions down the line until we have severely restricted freedoms and the government will then take full control of our lives.

Trump can do what can to clean up his own country but we will be forever like caged animals in Australia where the liberals and labour parties will forever hold power. Their bickering and debates are just smoke screens for the public but we will never see the light of day of voting in an alternative, logically-thinking party to protect our rights. How can people take mainstream media outlets seriously these days. get woke pls

 

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12 hours ago, belaguttman said:

Shutdown is only helpful if it's a part of a strategy, and there's no benefit without clear evidence of increasing community transmission. We don't have access to that data, but I'm assuming that each state is testing random community samples. It won't eradicate the virus on it's own (despite what China is claiming). It provides breathing space for the health system to recover and move people through, but more importantly, it allows us to stock up on medical consumables (that aren't due to arrive for a month), testing kits and contact tracers. The contact tracers are the backbone of an effective response, even though the work is not glamorous.

As the restrictions are slowly eased, it needs to come with extensive community screening, proactive isolation/enforcement etc., that's what'll keep the virus at bay whilst we can get on with our lives. As acquired immunity in the community approaches 60%, the virus finds it increasingly difficult to find vulnerable hosts. There'll be isolated outbreaks so we'd have to stay vigilant, but that's a proven way of controlling this. A vaccine will follow down the track.

I know what you're saying there Bela, but IMO what he's railing about is monumental blunders such as the Ruby Princess. I bet the heads to the two departments in question - NSW Health and the Border Farce (deliberate spelling error) - are still on their salaries that likely exceed my total superannuation accumulated over a lifetime of work.

Why the fucking borders were't shut immediately continues to amaze me - and they're not really shut even now. Community transmission is probably very low, I'm confined to my home, yet we continue to let infected people into the country. 

FMD.

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What im not convinced of, is the economic response to this crisis.  

The basic ideology for social distancing and self isolation is to reduce the spread and give the medical sector the time to cope with the eventual unmanageable numbers of sick, critically sick patients. 

As a result huge sections of the workforce have been forced out of work forcing other buisiness to also follow as a result. 

What I would like to know, why wasn't all these billions just pumped directly into the medical response and possibly maintaining most of the economy in tact.

I was a total lockdown nut, but ultimately we are going to be in this state until most of us get sick and recover (hopefully) or a vaccine that works is created. Best case is probably 12 to 18 months. 

We don't have the cash as a country to go more than 6 months with all these artificial economic injections. 

Whichever way you look it we are well and truly done.

 

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36 minutes ago, Jovan said:

What im not convinced of, is the economic response to this crisis.  

The basic ideology for social distancing and self isolation is to reduce the spread and give the medical sector the time to cope with the eventual unmanageable numbers of sick, critically sick patients. 

As a result huge sections of the workforce have been forced out of work forcing other buisiness to also follow as a result. 

What I would like to know, why wasn't all these billions just pumped directly into the medical response and possibly maintaining most of the economy in tact.

I was a total lockdown nut, but ultimately we are going to be in this state until most of us get sick and recover (hopefully) or a vaccine that works is created. Best case is probably 12 to 18 months. 

We don't have the cash as a country to go more than 6 months with all these artificial economic injections. 

Whichever way you look it we are well and truly done.

 

I had the same question. Even what we're doing acknowledges that there will be a 60% infection rate.

Worse, the coronaviruses come from bats - SARS and MERS were related to the current virus. Bats have lived with these things for thousands of years. The likelihood is that that a new virus will appear at regular intervals into the future. These viruses appear in the "wet markets" in Asia and jump species into humans - and these markets have already re-opened in China.

The only sensible strategy as far as I can see is to have medical facilities on standby on a permanent basis - it will be far cheaper in the long run - and to be ready to properly close the borders at a moment's notice. People who leave the country need to understand that they may not be able to return when they want to. I don't hear this being talked about at all and that worries.

With modern technology people don't need to meet in person for conferences etc. - most are just junkets anyway.

And get a proper economy going again instead of relying on manufacturing overseas. Become self-sufficient.

Edited by jw1739
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2 hours ago, Jovan said:

As a result huge sections of the workforce have been forced out of work forcing other buisiness to also follow as a result. 

What I would like to know, why wasn't all these billions just pumped directly into the medical response and possibly maintaining most of the economy in tact.

I was a total lockdown nut, but ultimately we are going to be in this state until most of us get sick and recover (hopefully) or a vaccine that works is created. Best case is probably 12 to 18 months. 

It's not just a question of money. sure, we need more ventilators but so does every country and they are very hard to source. Then there is the staffing issue. Optimal ICU practice has a 1:1 staffing ratio, one nurse per patient, but that's 3 shifts a day. Add in medical staff, supporting hospital staff, then allow for up to 30% absence with SARS-Covid-19 and the big issue becomes staffing. If even 60% of the population becomes infected, maybe 5% of those will need ICU level support, that's 480,000 people!

Then, if you look at the illness itself, the problem isn't just viral pneumonia that requires ventilation, the problem is something called a cytokine storm, a super aggressive immune response where the body ends up destroying itself, sort of like 'friendly fire'. This is what kills people and we currently have no effective treatment for it.

 

The wider problem is not just Chinese wet markets, it's factory farming, swine flu epidemics and bird flu epidemics have their root cause in intensive farming, whether in China or in the rest of the world, so we'll need a whole world response to this after it passes. Bats have amazingly powerful immune systems, they protect bats from becoming ill with all sorts of viruses that have the potential to become zoonoses, infective agents that cross the species barrier and infect humans. As we increase deforestation and push into previously uninhabited areas, we increase our exposure to all these infective agents

Edited by belaguttman
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3 hours ago, jw1739 said:

I know what you're saying there Bela, but IMO what he's railing about is monumental blunders such as the Ruby Princess. I bet the heads to the two departments in question - NSW Health and the Border Farce (deliberate spelling error) - are still on their salaries that likely exceed my total superannuation accumulated over a lifetime of work.

Why the fucking borders were't shut immediately continues to amaze me - and they're not really shut even now. Community transmission is probably very low, I'm confined to my home, yet we continue to let infected people into the country. 

We did close our borders vert effectively, but only to China. There's no way politically, that we could have closed our borders in December to US and Europe even though that was the public health recommendation. The Border Force mindset is not really focused on protecting our borders from white christian people, it has been fashioned that way over 10 years by successive governments, look at the number of visa overstayers that have arrived by plane and attract little interest from Border Force. Most public sector agencies have been run down and de-skilled over 30 years under successive Governments - they are there to do what the Minister, or the Minister's flunkey tells them to do. Rubi Princess was a logical conclusion of that process and it has certainly made things more difficult. The effective contact tracing teams that could have salvaged the situation have also been run down since the Abbott Government, it's called small Government and excessive bureaucracy - until we need it. 

There's no problem allowing potentially infected people into the country as long as we quarantine them and as long as our medical system isn't overrun, right now, we are handling this well. The Government has been reactive in this crisis and always one step behind because they'd deliberately chosen to dismantle many of the structures that would have been helpful. It's not like they didn't know, there has been many global pandemics since SARS, doctors have warned them repeatedly, they chose to provide little weight to the warnings.

I know that the Government response to TeleHealth has been chaotic and poorly implemented. It's caused enormous anxiety in the medical profession, after years of Medicare audits where they insist on full repayment of all fees for the minor technical breach of the regulations (ie accepting a referral with technically incorrect wording, even if it's clinically appropriate) doctors are more worried about a cost recovery compliance breach after all this is over, than we are about providing Telehealth. In the last 2 weeks I've had 3 different fees and 3 different compliance requirements for each Telehealth consult, and next week I will get a 4th different one!

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https://translate.googleusercontent.com/translate_c?depth=1&hl=en&nv=1&rurl=translate.google.com&sl=auto&sp=nmt4&tl=en&u=https://www.agenzianova.com/a/5e6bcf1da7fbe3.23491954/2851060/2020-03-13/coronavirus-iss-in-italia-i-decessi-accertati-finora-per-causa-del-covid-19-sono-solo-due&usg=ALkJrhgt8ZwSVk9IMimZlQpO_Ud3gkt18w

Rome, 13 March 19:12 - (Agenzia Nova) - There may be only two people who died from coronavirus in Italy, who did not present other pathologies. This is what emerges from the medical records examined so far by the Higher Institute of Health, according to what was reported by the President of the Institute, Silvio Brusaferro, during the press conference held today at the Civil Protection in Rome. "Positive deceased patients have an average of over 80 years - 80.3 to be exact - and are essentially predominantly male," said Brusaferro. "Women are 25.8 percent. The average age of the deceased is significantly higher than the other positive ones. The age groups over 70, with a peak between 80 and 89 years. The majority of these people are carriers of chronic diseases. Only two people were not presently carriers of diseases ", but even in these two cases, the examination of the files is not concluded and therefore, causes of death different from Covid-19 could emerge. The president of the ISS has specified that "little more than a hundred medical records" have so far come from hospitals throughout Italy.

These are the first minimum detailed data provided so far by the Civil Protection on the causes of death of coronavirus patients. At present, in fact, the authorities are unable to distinguish those who died from the virus, from those who, on the other hand, are communicated daily to the public, but who were mostly carriers of other serious diseases and who, therefore, would not have died from Covid-19. In response to a question from "Agenzia Nova", in fact, Brusaferro was unable to indicate the exact number of coronavirus deaths. However, the professor clarified that, according to the data analyzed, the vast majority of the victims "had serious pathologies and in some cases the onset of an infection of the respiratory tract can lead more easily to death. To clarify this point , and provide real data, "as we acquire the folders we will go further. However, the populations most at risk are fragile, carriers of multiple diseases.

On this exact same date the WHO had this up

 

IMG_20200331_173625.thumb.jpg.fc90101416d0cd9b06982e5be3bacd23.jpg

So the Health minister of Italy says 2 confirmed deaths and the WHO says 1266.

 

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18 minutes ago, playmaker said:

https://translate.googleusercontent.com/translate_c?depth=1&hl=en&nv=1&rurl=translate.google.com&sl=auto&sp=nmt4&tl=en&u=https://www.agenzianova.com/a/5e6bcf1da7fbe3.23491954/2851060/2020-03-13/coronavirus-iss-in-italia-i-decessi-accertati-finora-per-causa-del-covid-19-sono-solo-due&usg=ALkJrhgt8ZwSVk9IMimZlQpO_Ud3gkt18w

Rome, 13 March 19:12 - (Agenzia Nova) - There may be only two people who died from coronavirus in Italy, who did not present other pathologies. This is what emerges from the medical records examined so far by the Higher Institute of Health, according to what was reported by the President of the Institute, Silvio Brusaferro, during the press conference held today at the Civil Protection in Rome. "Positive deceased patients have an average of over 80 years - 80.3 to be exact - and are essentially predominantly male," said Brusaferro. "Women are 25.8 percent. The average age of the deceased is significantly higher than the other positive ones. The age groups over 70, with a peak between 80 and 89 years. The majority of these people are carriers of chronic diseases. Only two people were not presently carriers of diseases ", but even in these two cases, the examination of the files is not concluded and therefore, causes of death different from Covid-19 could emerge. The president of the ISS has specified that "little more than a hundred medical records" have so far come from hospitals throughout Italy.

These are the first minimum detailed data provided so far by the Civil Protection on the causes of death of coronavirus patients. At present, in fact, the authorities are unable to distinguish those who died from the virus, from those who, on the other hand, are communicated daily to the public, but who were mostly carriers of other serious diseases and who, therefore, would not have died from Covid-19. In response to a question from "Agenzia Nova", in fact, Brusaferro was unable to indicate the exact number of coronavirus deaths. However, the professor clarified that, according to the data analyzed, the vast majority of the victims "had serious pathologies and in some cases the onset of an infection of the respiratory tract can lead more easily to death. To clarify this point , and provide real data, "as we acquire the folders we will go further. However, the populations most at risk are fragile, carriers of multiple diseases.

On this exact same date the WHO had this up

 

IMG_20200331_173625.thumb.jpg.fc90101416d0cd9b06982e5be3bacd23.jpg

So the Health minister of Italy says 2 confirmed deaths and the WHO says 1266.

 

So they have analysed the first hundred records that have been released, which is less than 1% of deaths and which would be expected to be the records of early deaths, which is likey going to be those with underlying diseases. 

So essentially you are using a small incomplete sample size of an ongoing and escalating situation to 'prove' that its not sn issue...

 

Maybe semantics, but another thing to note is Brusaferro isn't the Italian Minister for Health...

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49 minutes ago, belaguttman said:

Playmaker, that is not the logical conclusion from the data you've presented. Do you suggest that Italian ICUs have mysteriously filled up with patients and that this is not directly related to Covid-19 infections? People have co-morbid conditions

No I am suggesting that the on the 13th of March the Italian government claimed 2 deaths and the WHO claimed 1266.

Doesn't matter which way you want to bend the data discrepancy to suit your own bias, what is written is reality at that point in time.

 

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22 hours ago, HeartFc said:

Look, ill explain how these images often get thrown into the mix. People take screen grabs of random pictures from everywhere, they simply have to match the subject matter and have a dramatic screen grab and they go viral.

No. It's an official story from MSM MK Ultra media.

Play the videos and see they are identical rooms.

 

https://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2020/03/cbs-news-caught-using-footage-from-an-italian-hospital-to-describe-conditions-in-new-york-city-video/

 

 

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8 hours ago, Jovan said:

What im not convinced of, is the economic response to this crisis.  

The basic ideology for social distancing and self isolation is to reduce the spread and give the medical sector the time to cope with the eventual unmanageable numbers of sick, critically sick patients. 

As a result huge sections of the workforce have been forced out of work forcing other buisiness to also follow as a result. 

What I would like to know, why wasn't all these billions just pumped directly into the medical response and possibly maintaining most of the economy in tact.

I was a total lockdown nut, but ultimately we are going to be in this state until most of us get sick and recover (hopefully) or a vaccine that works is created. Best case is probably 12 to 18 months. 

We don't have the cash as a country to go more than 6 months with all these artificial economic injections. 

Whichever way you look it we are well and truly done.

 

 

8 hours ago, jw1739 said:

I had the same question. Even what we're doing acknowledges that there will be a 60% infection rate.

Worse, the coronaviruses come from bats - SARS and MERS were related to the current virus. Bats have lived with these things for thousands of years. The likelihood is that that a new virus will appear at regular intervals into the future. These viruses appear in the "wet markets" in Asia and jump species into humans - and these markets have already re-opened in China.

The only sensible strategy as far as I can see is to have medical facilities on standby on a permanent basis - it will be far cheaper in the long run - and to be ready to properly close the borders at a moment's notice. People who leave the country need to understand that they may not be able to return when they want to. I don't hear this being talked about at all and that worries.

With modern technology people don't need to meet in person for conferences etc. - most are just junkets anyway.

And get a proper economy going again instead of relying on manufacturing overseas. Become self-sufficient.

If we aim for 60% herd immunity (assuming that this is possible) and Australia has a population of 25M this means that about 15M will need to get infected. Assume a 1% death rate then this means that 150k people will have died. If we assume 10% require hospitalisation for a period of two weeks including the beds, hospital staff, and medical equipment then you will need 1.5M beds. At the end of the 2017/18 financial year there were about 62k beds. You can see that if the chosen 1.5M people were to require immediate hospitalisation we could not do it - and this does not take into account your garden variety hospitalisation such as births, appendicitis, etc. Nor does it take into account that out of those chosen 1.5M there would be medical staff further reducing the shortage. Then if you play around with stats like how many would be the primary bread winner, the age group, those released from hospital but still requiring treatment, and so on and so on. Basically we are screwed economically either way. Worst possible scenario is that we lose a large % of the 25 to 40 year olds from the labour market and from the child rearing market. Example case is Botswana which had an average growth rate of about 5% between 1965 (independence) and 1990. Then HIV hit the country hard bringing the country instability (lots of orphans) and a plummeting economy (source The Economist) and the world bank shows the chart to be bouncing between contraction and expansion repeatedly from 1990.

So as far as saying lets pump billions into medical research, this assumes that the problem is one of money. The problem is more like we did not know it existed, and in comparison to SARS the speed in which the scientists have developed a test for it is incredible. The next task is to actually develop a vaccine. Now this is going to be tricky because normally the vaccine would go through a lengthy trial period which could take years. What happens now, I don't know.

My take is that governments are trying to get to 60% contagion and survival without causing mass hospitalisation. Some people will be given the choice of being human guinea pigs.

As for rebalancing the economy that will take courage and vision. The free trade between nations will continue but with a partially protected manufacturing sector which can be switched over to increase production or change products depending one the emergency. What happens to aviation and tourism? So many countries have been pushing the tourism sector as a way of employing large numbers of people.

And finally, Hendra virus is our own uniquely Australian virus from fruit bats. Fatal to humans and we don't even eat them.

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14 hours ago, playmaker said:

https://translate.googleusercontent.com/translate_c?depth=1&hl=en&nv=1&rurl=translate.google.com&sl=auto&sp=nmt4&tl=en&u=https://www.agenzianova.com/a/5e6bcf1da7fbe3.23491954/2851060/2020-03-13/coronavirus-iss-in-italia-i-decessi-accertati-finora-per-causa-del-covid-19-sono-solo-due&usg=ALkJrhgt8ZwSVk9IMimZlQpO_Ud3gkt18w

Rome, 13 March 19:12 - (Agenzia Nova) - There may be only two people who died from coronavirus in Italy, who did not present other pathologies. This is what emerges from the medical records examined so far by the Higher Institute of Health, according to what was reported by the President of the Institute, Silvio Brusaferro, during the press conference held today at the Civil Protection in Rome. "Positive deceased patients have an average of over 80 years - 80.3 to be exact - and are essentially predominantly male," said Brusaferro. "Women are 25.8 percent. The average age of the deceased is significantly higher than the other positive ones. The age groups over 70, with a peak between 80 and 89 years. The majority of these people are carriers of chronic diseases. Only two people were not presently carriers of diseases ", but even in these two cases, the examination of the files is not concluded and therefore, causes of death different from Covid-19 could emerge. The president of the ISS has specified that "little more than a hundred medical records" have so far come from hospitals throughout Italy.

These are the first minimum detailed data provided so far by the Civil Protection on the causes of death of coronavirus patients. At present, in fact, the authorities are unable to distinguish those who died from the virus, from those who, on the other hand, are communicated daily to the public, but who were mostly carriers of other serious diseases and who, therefore, would not have died from Covid-19. In response to a question from "Agenzia Nova", in fact, Brusaferro was unable to indicate the exact number of coronavirus deaths. However, the professor clarified that, according to the data analyzed, the vast majority of the victims "had serious pathologies and in some cases the onset of an infection of the respiratory tract can lead more easily to death. To clarify this point , and provide real data, "as we acquire the folders we will go further. However, the populations most at risk are fragile, carriers of multiple diseases.

On this exact same date the WHO had this up

 

IMG_20200331_173625.thumb.jpg.fc90101416d0cd9b06982e5be3bacd23.jpg

So the Health minister of Italy says 2 confirmed deaths and the WHO says 1266.

 

LOL! That’s not even what the Health Minister said. They said there were only 2 otherwise healthy people who died. 
You can have a chronic illness and get hit by a car and die but to say that your death doesn’t count to the road toll because of your chronic illness is just dumb. 
edit: Silvio Brusaferro is also NOT the Italian Health Minister

Edited by NuggetsMcGreggor
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On 31/03/2020 at 8:19 PM, NewConvert said:

And finally, Hendra virus is our own uniquely Australian virus from fruit bats. Fatal to humans and we don't even eat them.

Hendra, Murray Valley Encephalitis among others

On 31/03/2020 at 8:07 PM, playmaker said:

No. It's an official story from MSM MK Ultra media.

Play the videos and see they are identical rooms.

 

https://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2020/03/cbs-news-caught-using-footage-from-an-italian-hospital-to-describe-conditions-in-new-york-city-video/

 

 

MK Ultra, the website that believes in CIA mass mind control with chemtrails and lizard people running the world

Edited by belaguttman
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2 hours ago, haz said:

10% of total cases in Australia are directly from the Ruby Princess cruise ship. This figure doesn't include any transmission once left the ship.

What a monumental fuck up. Pure incompetence

https://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2020/mar/31/more-than-400-coronavirus-cases-australia-total-ruby-princess-cruise-ship

Yes. And the Heads of the two agencies involved - NSW Health and The Border Farce - remain on their annual salaries which in all probability exceed the lifetime savings of any of the rest of us.

We are in this lock-down because of a series of such fuck ups, and very poor messaging.

And many people still, it seems, unaware of what is going on. In Bayside where I live certain cafes were openly trading on the weekend and people were strolling around as if they were on their annual holidays down by the beach.

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But I want to put this up because it's positive and encouraging.

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-04-01/coronavirus-cases-in-victoria-rise-health-funding-boost/12108052

I'll also pass on a comment I received from an ex-colleague who lives by herself in the Latrobe Valley. People trying to get through this alone can easily get depressed. She advises to read the news ONCE A DAY only. You don't need to know the latest world coronavirus statistics on a 24/7 basis - there's fuck all you can do about Spain or Italy, the U.S. and the U.K. - focus on what's happening locally and do everything YOU can to control the spread of the virus.

We CAN get out of this shit if we work together.

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https://www.ilpost.it/2020/01/13/meningite-bergamo/

Translated

13th January 2020

In recent weeks, four cases of meningitis have been reported in several municipalities in the area between Bergamo and Brescia in Lombardy, which resulted in the death of two people. The risk of further infections has been reduced thanks to the intervention of local health authorities and there is currently no epidemic, as confirmed by the regional government. The news circulated in the early days had however generated considerable alarmism, in turn amplified by social networks and intense coverage of newspapers.

Meningitis is a disease of the central nervous system that leads to severe inflammation of the meninges, the membranes that envelop the brain (brain) and spinal cord. The causes of meningitis can be of various types, but the most recurrent ones are due to infections with particular viruses and bacteria. Left untreated, meningitis can cause permanent neurological damage and in severe cases even death. In Italy there are about two hundred cases of meningitis every year, and the most common are due to the type B and C of the disease. For both there are vaccines that prevent the risk of contracting the disease, but they are not mandatory.

The cases found between Brescia and Bergamo concerned type C of meningitis. According to the Higher Institute of Health, the technical-scientific body of the National Health Service, there were four cases between 2 December 2019 and 2 January 2020. The first three in Villongo, a town in the province of Bergamo very close on Lake Iseo, two girls aged 19 and 16 and a 36-year-old man were involved. The third case, in particular, occurred around Christmas days, which generated some unrest over the holiday season.

The last two patients survived, while the 19-year-old died on December 3, just one day after showing the first symptoms. The fourth case was recorded in Predore, about ten kilometers east: a 48-year-old woman died on January 3 a few hours after being admitted to the Brescia hospital.

Corriere della Sera wrote that news of the four cases resulted in "the assault on the area's health centers" and "the exhaustion of vaccine supplies", leading "to the opening of extraordinary clinics and the request for supplies and reinforcements to immunize the population under 60 free of charge ». Local newspapers have reported several queues to get vaccinated, while the parish of Villongo has decided not to invite the faithful to the "exchange of peace" - that is, the moment that provides for the handshake - during the masses.

For days on the Facebook groups of the inhabitants of the area have been published messages on vaccines, some of which are quite alarming and in some cases unfounded. Giorgio Bertazzoli - mayor of Sarnico, one of the largest towns in the area - has published daily bulletins on the group "Sei di Sarnico se ...", providing timetables and indications for vaccination sessions, and also the Bergamo ATS (Protection Agency della Salute, the old ASL) has updated its Facebook page in real time.

The meningitis C vaccine was distributed free of charge by hospitals and ATS while a coordination was formed between the Ministry of Health, the Istituto Superiore di Sanità, AGENAS (National Agency for Regional Health Services) and the various local and regional health authorities. "In just a few days, we opened 14 extraordinary clinics," Regional Councilor for Welfare Giulio Gallera explained to Eco di Bergamo: "we arrived at the schools, without closing them, and we will arrive at 25 companies. I am positively impressed by the sense of responsibility of many local administrators, of the entrepreneurs who have made spaces and facilities available for vaccinations to their employees, of citizens who have understood the importance of vaccination as a preferential defense tool ". In all, around 20 thousand people have been vaccinated, which according to Corriere della Sera equals 60 percent of the area's population.

At the moment, the concerns of several inhabitants of the area have shifted to damage to tourism: the mayor of Sarnico spoke of "canceled reservations" in hotels and "half-empty" shops and restaurants on days of greatest concern.

IMG_20200331_201612.thumb.jpg.d93f0c494390aa089569b15b01543ab0.jpg

Hmmmm. Coincidence?

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1 hour ago, thisphantomfortress said:

Thankfully shit doesn't seem to be too out of control here. The next few weeks are the big ones and could see Scott, Gladys and Dan become national heroes or pariahs. Here's hoping they become heroes.

Alot of people would beg to differ, most notably those that have lost their jobs for the foreseeable future. But in comparison to rest of the world we seem to be ahead of the game.

But I agree, next few weeks will see where we are at. 😏 

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21 hours ago, NuggetsMcGreggor said:

Silvio Brusaferro is also NOT the Italian Health Minister

No you are right he is actually the leading authority and spokesperson for the Italian government

President of the Institute [Istituto Superiore di Sanità (ISS), Italian National Institute of Health], Silvio Brusaferro, during the press conference held today at the Civil Protection in Rome. 

Sorry I down graded his role as he is far more important than the Health minister.

19 hours ago, belaguttman said:

MK Ultra, the website that believes in CIA mass mind control and lizard people running the world

So instead of looking at the report and seeing that they posted the official reports from both the author's YouTube channels you respond with this!

Ok I will make it easier for you, here are the two videos

at 1min 21s

at 23s

Same props in exactly the same places,  same patients, same nurse in green, same room, same doors.

 

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