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cadete    6,033
51 minutes ago, Shahanga said:

Do you really think a left winger like Albo is electable? Need more than the latte set to vote for him.

I think he is likable and presents well as a down to earth type than most Politicians, and I think a lot of Australian's could view him as breath of fresh air to the Federal Leaders and Key Federal Politicians that have been on our screens over the past six years.

I could see a Jimmy Carter like sentiment in the electorate... obv less said about Carter the President the better.

18 hours ago, Tesla said:

This post sure does sound like passive aggressive bragging to me, two thing you apparently despise. 

No, it sounds like someone who for a period of well over six years has continued to remain Anonymous on this Forum and in particular in this stupid thread despite many of the occasions where I could have just Grandstanded on Several Topics where what PPL have written shit that is just plain wrong.

Also FWIW this situation of having access to information (None of it course ever being due to any merit of my own) that I dont say on here has only actually gotten harder to do over the last couple of years as well.

Edited by cadete

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Tesla    8,058

Wonder how long these home invasions will continue until common sense prevails and people are given the right to defend their homes and families by any means necessary. 

Don't think there is any more retarded law than the fact you basically have to sit there and let cunts beat you / kill you when they break into your house if you dont want to end up in jail yourself.

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Shahanga    3,374
1 hour ago, Tesla said:

Wonder how long these home invasions will continue until common sense prevails and people are given the right to defend their homes and families by any means necessary. 

Don't think there is any more retarded law than the fact you basically have to sit there and let cunts beat you / kill you when they break into your house if you dont want to end up in jail yourself.

This could be the one thing that brings down Danny. People have to start taking precautions like you live in the 3rd world.

Needs to make sure the " tag and release" policy stops.

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GreenSeater    2,561
53 minutes ago, Shahanga said:

This could be the one thing that brings down Danny. People have to start taking precautions like you live in the 3rd world.

Needs to make sure the " tag and release" policy stops.

Don't think Andrews is the problem tbh. The issue in Tesla's original post is a nation-wide issue where self-defence laws in this country massively favor the intruder(s) rather than the victims. As for the tag and release approach that seems to be a court issue. The bail system is a complete joke. Just look at the Bourke Street massacre. That being said, people will see the issue and instantly blame Dan unless he does something. Not sure exactly what he can do though to be honest. Unfortunately it's a much more complex issue than people make it out to be.

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Shahanga    3,374
48 minutes ago, GreenSeater said:

Unfortunately it's a much more complex issue than people make it out to be.

Pretty much everything is much more complex than it's made out to be!

Andrews hadn't caused this issue but really he's in the position where he'll be blamed if it continues like it is. There is stuff he can do. Heres some ideas:

1.Pass tougher sentencing laws (ie end tag and release).

2. put more police resources into sudanese community 

3. Work with the Feds to deport everyone of these crims who is not a citizen 

4. Work with the Feds to revoke citizenship of those not born here 

5 reduce funding of the left wing legal groups who support these criminals

 

 

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GreenSeater    2,561
12 minutes ago, Shahanga said:

Pretty much everything is much more complex than it's made out to be!

Andrews hadn't caused this issue but really he's in the position where he'll be blamed if it continues like it is. There is stuff he can do. Heres some ideas:

1.Pass tougher sentencing laws (ie end tag and release).

Agree with this, however I don't think Vic Liberals idea of madatory sentencing is a good idea. You just have to look at the US to see that madatory sentecing does not work.

2. put more police resources into sudanese community 

Agree but I think you'll find this is already happening to an extent.

3. Work with the Feds to deport everyone of these crims who is not a citizen 

This is already happening: http://www.heraldsun.com.au/news/victoria/173-criminals-including-two-from-the-apex-gang-set-for-deportation-under-tough-new-migration-laws/news-story/c0edb369de48c1a66745e34ab5a310d0

4. Work with the Feds to revoke citizenship of those not born here 

Definitely disagree with this. You can't take away a citizen's rights for committing a crime just because they were born overseas. 

5 reduce funding of the left wing legal groups who support these criminals

Absolutely ridiculous. Taking away legal support for people who likely cannot afford it and taking away their right to a fair trial, whether they are guilty or not goes against everything this country stands for.

 

 

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NewConvert    701
4 hours ago, Tesla said:

Wonder how long these home invasions will continue until common sense prevails and people are given the right to defend their homes and families by any means necessary. 

Don't think there is any more retarded law than the fact you basically have to sit there and let cunts beat you / kill you when they break into your house if you dont want to end up in jail yourself.

Provide evidence. Not hear say but real court cases.

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Shahanga    3,374

@GreenSeater

agree with you re mandatory sentencing.

in regards to legal funding I'm not talking about defending people who are charged, in talking about the vexatious stuff, like the cases to defend the "poor children" inside for serious crimes who destroyed the youth detention facility they were in. 

If a left wing philanthropist wants to spend their cash looking for loopholes to see these people released ok, but taxpayers money shouldn't be going to groups who waste it on these cases. How much of this actually happens? Not sure but I'd be surprised if all these lawyers were volunteers.

Oh also these violent crims must be selling their stolen goods somewhere. Cops have got to come down hard at that level too.

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Deeming    579
On 5/10/2017 at 7:13 PM, thisphantomfortress said:

Being right of Lenin while living in the seat of Melbourne my vote counts for jack shit and I'll still probably vote lib dems, but Jesus I can't stomach thought of shorten as PM. I'd favour liberals over alp even after this abortion of a budget. @Deeming you're a card carrying liberal where do you see the party going?

The party is at a crossroad. Similar to where Labor was ~10 years ago. The rise of the Greens meant Labor had to decide do they go further Left to try to stem their loses to the Greens or do they stay centre left. They have gone far left and are paying the cost of that. They abandoned their base low-income battlers for inner city, chardonnay socialists types. Abandoning the base is the death of any party.

With the rise of alternative (broadly) right-wing parties One Nation, Liberal Democrats and the Australian Conservatives, the Liberals are in the same position. They need to decide do they move right to stem the loses, stay centre-right or move to be a centralist party.

The problem with a centralist position is you don't actually stand for anything and the public care more about politicians standing for something than nothing. If you don't have anything to stand for, you don't have a narrative to sell, you will not get support. That is the problem with the current Federal Libs. What do they stand for?

I don't think the Liberal Party can win the next election with Turnbull. Last election was a fluke and we only won because Dan Andrews was on the nose with CFA and Safe Schools in key seats. 
The solution is one they won't go for. Massive generational change. Switching to a younger leader who actually believes in the values of the party and wants to argue for them: Michael Sukkar, Andrew Hastie or Tim Wilson.

State-wise we are in a good place. We have a leader who actually is a strong believer in the Liberal Party and its values.We may well see the first truly Liberal government since Bolte.

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Tesla    8,058
7 minutes ago, Deeming said:

The party is at a crossroad. Similar to where Labor was ~10 years ago. The rise of the Greens meant Labor had to decide do they go further Left to try to stem their loses to the Greens or do they stay centre left. They have gone far left and are paying the cost of that. They abandoned their base low-income battlers for inner city, chardonnay socialists types. Abandoning the base is the death of any party.

With the rise of alternative (broadly) right-wing parties One Nation, Liberal Democrats and the Australian Conservatives, the Liberals are in the same position. They need to decide do they move right to stem the loses, stay centre-right or move to be a centralist party.

The problem with a centralist position is you don't actually stand for anything and the public care more about politicians standing for something than nothing. If you don't have anything to stand for, you don't have a narrative to sell, you will not get support. That is the problem with the current Federal Libs. What do they stand for?

I don't think the Liberal Party can win the next election with Turnbull. Last election was a fluke and we only won because Dan Andrews was on the nose with CFA and Safe Schools in key seats. 
The solution is one they won't go for. Massive generational change. Switching to a younger leader who actually believes in the values of the party and wants to argue for them: Michael Sukkar, Andrew Hastie or Tim Wilson.

State-wise we are in a good place. We have a leader who actually is a strong believer in the Liberal Party and its values.We may well see the first truly Liberal government since Bolte.

There is a simple solution for the Liberal party 

 

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jw1739    6,762
2 hours ago, thisphantomfortress said:

Pretty much in the same category as not having an interchange at South Yarra on the new train line.

But really the problem with all transport infrastructure is that we continue to funnel more and more people into the CBD while Melbourne grows so rapidly that transport infrastructure cannot keep up with the growth.

The only real answer is decentralise. Melbourne is already choking.

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NewConvert    701
2 hours ago, jw1739 said:

Pretty much in the same category as not having an interchange at South Yarra on the new train line.

But really the problem with all transport infrastructure is that we continue to funnel more and more people into the CBD while Melbourne grows so rapidly that transport infrastructure cannot keep up with the growth.

The only real answer is decentralise. Melbourne is already choking.

All of my working life this has been attempted. Federally they moved the tax department to Albury/Wodonga, statewide they moved the environment department out to Bendigo IIRC, etc. Multiple attempts to have technology/business parks around the outer suburbs, etc. When people are free to live or do business where they please, the CBDs win. I have no idea what could be done.

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Deeming    579
16 hours ago, Shahanga said:

Youth supervision for violent armed robbery? Has the world gone mad? 

The ongoing legacy of Labor's former Attorney General Rob Hulls who filled the courts with bleeding hearts 

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cadete    6,033
7 hours ago, Deeming said:

The ongoing legacy of Labor's former Attorney General Rob Hulls who filled the courts with bleeding hearts 

Including a bloke who had to be sacked when he was a Loose Fucken Cannon as the DPP.

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Tesla    8,058
5 hours ago, thisphantomfortress said:

The Pell arrest could turn into one of the most interesting cases in Australian and potentially international history.

Meh, only reason its big news is because so many people have vested interests on either side, I don't think the actual case will be interesting.

If you're not catholic, but also don't have anything against catholics, then it's just going to be one of those things in the news for ages that you're tired of hearing about. 

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cadete    6,033

Anyone remember the Pinko's Qanda Hero: Duncan who was getting a real hard go from the Government...

As in that bloke who turned out to actually have:
1. An official long term record of dishonesty with the police.
2. And who was a drug dealer who even dealt drugs to his children to the point that they got addicted and hated his fucken guts.

Yeah - I just randomly mentioned that bloke's credentials for some random reason.

Edited by cadete
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1 hour ago, cadete said:

Anyone remember the Pinko's Qanda Hero: Duncan who was getting a real hard go from the Government...

As in that bloke who turned out to actually have:
1. An official long term record of dishonesty with the police.
2. And who was a drug dealer who even dealt drugs to his children to the point that they got addicted and hated his fucken guts.

Yeah - I just randomly mentioned that bloke's credentials for some random reason.

Doesn't stop Cardinal Pell getting charged with some pretty serious crimes.

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cadete    6,033
23 minutes ago, thisphantomfortress said:

Doesn't stop Cardinal Pell getting charged with some pretty serious crimes.

True.

BTW I also once heard of Suicide Note left from some random Woman from some random place who had some random Husband who constantly cheated on her throughout the course of their marriage with young drug users...

All it read was: "I just cant handle the Lies anymore".

 

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jw1739    6,762
36 minutes ago, thisphantomfortress said:

Doesn't stop Cardinal Pell getting charged with some pretty serious crimes.

I haven't read the charges - are they public? - but I do sometimes question the need to pursue at great expense some of these cases against very old men when the crimes, if proven, took place a very long time ago. Sure there is the principle of accountability and punishment to be considered. But, even if convictions result, do we really see a change in behaviour in the present day communities from which the perpetrators come? For example, the cases against Rolf Harris and George Pell - do we see a change in behaviour in show biz and the church respectively?

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cadete    6,033
24 minutes ago, jw1739 said:

I haven't read the charges - are they public? - but I do sometimes question the need to pursue at great expense some of these cases against very old men when the crimes, if proven, took place a very long time ago. Sure there is the principle of accountability and punishment to be considered. But, even if convictions result, do we really see a change in behaviour in the present day communities from which the perpetrators come? For example, the cases against Rolf Harris and George Pell - do we see a change in behaviour in show biz and the church respectively?

Maybe this case with all of its rock solid evidence will see a Archbishop of Melbourne in a Worldwide first for the Church finally properly accept and condemn the issue of mass child abuse in the church.

They could then go even further by setting another precedent in setting up an independent commission that provides compensation for victims alongside paying for the cost of lifelong highest level private healthcare so they can also have access to the best Mental Health Professionals.

Oh hang on... that George Pell bloke did that twenty years ago when he was the Archbishop of Melbourne.

Edited by cadete
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NewConvert    701
8 hours ago, jw1739 said:

I haven't read the charges - are they public? - but I do sometimes question the need to pursue at great expense some of these cases against very old men when the crimes, if proven, took place a very long time ago. Sure there is the principle of accountability and punishment to be considered. But, even if convictions result, do we really see a change in behaviour in the present day communities from which the perpetrators come? For example, the cases against Rolf Harris and George Pell - do we see a change in behaviour in show biz and the church respectively?

Yes we do. For starters, we now have the "Working with Children" cards that all adults have to get if they do work with children. The organisations that once upon a time would have ignored it have now more active policing. As for the individuals themselves - I am surprised that you even consider the idea of non-prosecution given some of your other postings. 

I actually think that this is the best outcome. If a court finds Pell innocent then his name is totally cleared. No further innuendo, fewer articles (I am realistic enough that there will always be articles) on his supposed crimes, etc. 

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Shahanga    3,374

I don't for a second think that serious crimes should be ignored just because the perpetrator has got away with it for a long time.

As to this Pell case well I don't really have an opinion. Let justice be served. 

i do note though that I struggle to understand in cases like this that seem to come down to one word versus another that guilt "beyond reasonable doubt" can be established.

its not up to the accused to prove their innocence, the crown must prove guilt.

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Tesla    8,058

While on the subject of innocence and guilt, I've always thought if you're found not guilty of a crime you've been charged with you should be paid compensation, whether it's for legal fees, reputation damage, time wasted going to court etc, or if you dont get bail compensation for being locked up until your trial, etc.

Seems only fair plus it would increase accountability when it comes to charging people.

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jw1739    6,762
17 hours ago, Tesla said:

While on the subject of innocence and guilt, I've always thought if you're found not guilty of a crime you've been charged with you should be paid compensation, whether it's for legal fees, reputation damage, time wasted going to court etc, or if you dont get bail compensation for being locked up until your trial, etc.

Seems only fair plus it would increase accountability when it comes to charging people.

The problem with this is that "not guilty" does not mean "innocent." It means that the Crown has been unable to prove beyond reasonable doubt that the accused is guilty of the charge.

The Scottish legal system allows a verdict of "not proven." https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Not_proven

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Nate    2,537

While we're talking state government, I've been reading a fair bit about the new 40km/h when passing flashing emergency vehicles law in Victoria and I genuinely think people are gonna die as a result of it.

There will almost certainly be drivers who don't know how to slow down from 100 to 40 safely and will likely slam on the brakes instead and as a result, there are gonna be instances where tailing semi-trailers simply won't be able to brake in time and are going to run straight over the top of the poor people in front. 

Did any thought go into this rule at all, or is it fine and I'm just lacking faith in the driving ability of Victorians/Melburnians?

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NewConvert    701
5 hours ago, Nate said:

While we're talking state government, I've been reading a fair bit about the new 40km/h when passing flashing emergency vehicles law in Victoria and I genuinely think people are gonna die as a result of it.

There will almost certainly be drivers who don't know how to slow down from 100 to 40 safely and will likely slam on the brakes instead and as a result, there are gonna be instances where tailing semi-trailers simply won't be able to brake in time and are going to run straight over the top of the poor people in front. 

Did any thought go into this rule at all, or is it fine and I'm just lacking faith in the driving ability of Victorians/Melburnians?

You actually do have a point with some caveats. Last century, L plate drivers had a maximum speed limit of 80Km/h and a parliamentary inquiry found that this was leading to accidents, thus the law was scrapped. So I can see the problem however flashing lights can be seen from quite a distance, the 100Km/h speed limit applies to freeways and open roads, and in any case the law has always stated that vehicles have to slow down for emergency vehicles in operation (and give way to them). So your lack of faith stems from the fact that you know most drivers don't slow down.

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6 hours ago, Nate said:

While we're talking state government, I've been reading a fair bit about the new 40km/h when passing flashing emergency vehicles law in Victoria and I genuinely think people are gonna die as a result of it.

There will almost certainly be drivers who don't know how to slow down from 100 to 40 safely and will likely slam on the brakes instead and as a result, there are gonna be instances where tailing semi-trailers simply won't be able to brake in time and are going to run straight over the top of the poor people in front. 

Did any thought go into this rule at all, or is it fine and I'm just lacking faith in the driving ability of Victorians/Melburnians?

I think it already caused a crash on the ring road didn't it. Victoria's biggest driving problem is we are taught to pass a test not to drive.

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n i k o    4,671
6 hours ago, Nate said:

While we're talking state government, I've been reading a fair bit about the new 40km/h when passing flashing emergency vehicles law in Victoria and I genuinely think people are gonna die as a result of it.

There will almost certainly be drivers who don't know how to slow down from 100 to 40 safely and will likely slam on the brakes instead and as a result, there are gonna be instances where tailing semi-trailers simply won't be able to brake in time and are going to run straight over the top of the poor people in front. 

Did any thought go into this rule at all, or is it fine and I'm just lacking faith in the driving ability of Victorians/Melburnians?

Nah didn't bother. I'll continue to do what I normally do, move to the side then follow the emergency vehicle as it paves a clear road in front of me. 

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jeffplz    663

Personally will never slow to 40 in fear of a truck behind me, not taking that risk, plus it's easy to get away with crime

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GreenSeater    2,561
5 hours ago, NewConvert said:

You actually do have a point with some caveats. Last century, L plate drivers had a maximum speed limit of 80Km/h and a parliamentary inquiry found that this was leading to accidents, thus the law was scrapped. So I can see the problem however flashing lights can be seen from quite a distance, the 100Km/h speed limit applies to freeways and open roads, and in any case the law has always stated that vehicles have to slow down for emergency vehicles in operation (and give way to them). So your lack of faith stems from the fact that you know most drivers don't slow down.

Unless the emergency vehicle happens to be on the other side of a hill

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NewConvert    701
7 hours ago, GreenSeater said:

Unless the emergency vehicle happens to be on the other side of a hill

Name three examples of where you can travel at 100km/h rounding the corner and not see emergency vehicles. I couldn't think of any.

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GreenSeater    2,561
2 hours ago, NewConvert said:

Name three examples of where you can travel at 100km/h rounding the corner and not see emergency vehicles. I couldn't think of any.

I'm assuming you don't travel in the country very often

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