Jump to content
Melbourne Football

Domestic Politics


cadete
 Share

Recommended Posts

6 hours ago, HeartFc said:

Hash tag sooooooooo glad invasion day is over. I felt physically sick all day and I'm so ashamed of my ancestors (mine were actually in Poland eating cabbage but they were white soooooooo...) they're still technically literally murders, racists and probably raped 150 million aboriginal babies. Just like white people killed 545 million american indians, 330 million muslim Brazilians, 77 trillion penguins and wiped out the Na'vi.

#invasionday2017

#changethedate

#givetheirlandback (but I'm not actually gonna move anywhere coz I like the culture and I finally got a rental in an area with a great vegetarian joint around the corner that uses recycled napkins and the waiters can speak nepalese)

#igaveanabosomechangeoncesolikeitotallylikekindalikegavebacktothecommunityandstuff

Its a convenient cause for ya typical yuppie to get behind since the aboriginal understanding of ownership is different to ours. They lose nothing.

Tbh I reckon make it the third Monday of January. Long weekend every year.

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, thisphantomfortress said:

Its a convenient cause for ya typical yuppie to get behind since the aboriginal understanding of ownership is different to ours. They lose nothing.

Tbh I reckon make it the third Monday of January. Long weekend every year.

Wouldn't Friday be better?

I dont really care whether they change the date either way but at least keep it in late Jan, hot weather and bbq's are what makes the day. You can fuck May 8 right off.

  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Unlike most issues the regressive left latch upon, I can see the point to this one. It is a complex issue and their means of trying to effect change are flawed IMO (burning Aussie flags and using aggressive language like "invasion day" doesn't win you support)

The thing that pisses me off most about the whole thing isn't even from the left, it's the "it wasn't Australia that did it it was the English" argument. So much face palm.

  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

50 minutes ago, thisphantomfortress said:

Unlike most issues the regressive left latch upon, I can see the point to this one. It is a complex issue and their means of trying to effect change are flawed IMO (burning Aussie flags and using aggressive language like "invasion day" doesn't win you support)

The thing that pisses me off most about the whole thing isn't even from the left, it's the "it wasn't Australia that did it it was the English" argument. So much face palm.

It could easily be celebrated as "Australia's National Day" and celebrate our diversity and unity at the same time. I agree with you - people should work on finding solutions rather than just be confrontational. Look for the good and not the bad.

Oh, and anyone of English origin has got quite used to being blamed for everything that's wrong with the world.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

At the end of the day, will changing the date solve all of the indigenous issues in this country? No. But it would at least be a decent step in a positive direction for indigenous relations in this country. You only have to go somewhere like New Zealand to see how a country should embrace it's indigenous culture and support it. In Australia we seem almost ashamed of the 50,000 years of history before white settlement. Change the date, make Australia Day good for all Australians. Plus I mean it's not like it's making a massive change, Australia Day only started being celebrated on the 26th of January in 1994...

Link to comment
Share on other sites

11 minutes ago, GreenSeater said:

At the end of the day, will changing the date solve all of the indigenous issues in this country? No. But it would at least be a decent step in a positive direction for indigenous relations in this country. You only have to go somewhere like New Zealand to see how a country should embrace it's indigenous culture and support it. In Australia we seem almost ashamed of the 50,000 years of history before white settlement. Change the date, make Australia Day good for all Australians. Plus I mean it's not like it's making a massive change, Australia Day only started being celebrated on the 26th of January in 1994...

Wasn't that just the date it become a public holiday?

Thought it was Australia since the 30's...

Link to comment
Share on other sites

11 minutes ago, jw1739 said:

According to Wikipedia:  "By 1935, all states of Australia were celebrating 26 January as Australia Day (although it was still known as Anniversary Day in New South Wales)."

Corruption in Victoria. http://www.abc.net.au/news/2017-01-27/millions-wasted-in-failed-ultranet-online-portal-ibac-says/8217072

I stand corrected, apologies

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Need to create an Ethnics Day.

We didn't do shit to the Aboriginals, so they cant get mad.

All we did was build this fucking country. A true celebration of Straylian history and no one can get mad (I'm sure someone will find something to be mad about though).

  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 hours ago, jw1739 said:

According to Wikipedia:  "By 1935, all states of Australia were celebrating 26 January as Australia Day (although it was still known as Anniversary Day in New South Wales)."

Thanks Jw, saved me posting about it. Prior to the 90s Australia Day was really a bit of a joke, because The holiday wasn't on the day it was just an excuse for a long weekend. Now that the days a holiday there is a lot more nationalistic pride around it. Long may that continue.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 27/01/2017 at 9:11 AM, jw1739 said:

I take it that those calling it Invasion day will willingly give up all the social security benefits that the Invaders have brought with them?

Seriously? 1788 there were no social security benefits. And unless my history is incorrect Captain Phillips brought along convicts that were not sentenced to death for stealing a loaf of bread. Social security concepts were the invention of the left in the 19th century which in turn had been an extension of the Church run charities. AFAIK the first social security contract by a government was signed by Prussian Chancellor Otto von Bismarck who awarded pensions to anyone over the age of 70 in the late 1800s - I think about 400 people claimed the pension in the first year.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 hours ago, NewConvert said:

Seriously? 1788 there were no social security benefits. And unless my history is incorrect Captain Phillips brought along convicts that were not sentenced to death for stealing a loaf of bread. Social security concepts were the invention of the left in the 19th century which in turn had been an extension of the Church run charities. AFAIK the first social security contract by a government was signed by Prussian Chancellor Otto von Bismarck who awarded pensions to anyone over the age of 70 in the late 1800s - I think about 400 people claimed the pension in the first year.

However, the fact remains that the benefits that are enjoyed by Australians today result from the creation of modern Australian society by those being called "invaders" (or the descendants thereof) with little or no contribution being made by those who claim to have been "invaded." And that is what I meant.

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Is it just me or has the age gotten worse? The other day there was an article which basically said "all Liberals are bad except Gladys Berejiklian because she is a female"  and today's special "Donald Trump is going to nuke Mexico, and maybe China". 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 hours ago, Tesla said:

Is it just me or has the age gotten worse? The other day there was an article which basically said "all Liberals are bad except Gladys Berejiklian because she is a female"  and today's special "Donald Trump is going to nuke Mexico, and maybe China". 

Can't tell - I have A Donald Trump filter on. I'm waiting till 2029 to find out what happened yesterday. Right now, it is all noise.

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

3 hours ago, Tesla said:

Is it just me or has the age gotten worse? The other day there was an article which basically said "all Liberals are bad except Gladys Berejiklian because she is a female"  and today's special "Donald Trump is going to nuke Mexico, and maybe China". 

It has been declining for sometime now, but it seems to have somewhat fallen off a cliff lately. 

There was also an article about trump not putting Turkey and Saudi Arabia on the ban list because he has business interests there. I would have thought it was readonably obvious why those two countries weren't on the list.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

3 hours ago, Tesla said:

Is it just me or has the age gotten worse? The other day there was an article which basically said "all Liberals are bad except Gladys Berejiklian because she is a female"  and today's special "Donald Trump is going to nuke Mexico, and maybe China". 

It's still no guardian yet; the cesspit for modern journalism.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

28 minutes ago, Deeming said:

I'm not sure that its getting worse I think it just used to be better at hiding its bias.

This...

They dont give a fuck anymore, the ship is going down (It has been for a long time since the Web destroyed Classifeds) so they are throwing a few punches as they sink.

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

5 hours ago, Tesla said:

Is it just me or has the age gotten worse? The other day there was an article which basically said "all Liberals are bad except Gladys Berejiklian because she is a female"  and today's special "Donald Trump is going to nuke Mexico, and maybe China". 

I haven't bothered with it for years. MrsJW buys the Sunday version just for the week's TV because she finds the program guide easier to negotiate than the on-line version.

IMO it's in the same dunny pit as ABC Radio.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

It is a major concern that PPL can allow themselves to watch Free to Air TV (The ABC in general and stuff like The Project) then read a major print newspaper (Fairfax) and listen to Nationwide Radio (ABC and JJJ) and hear only one Political Viewpoint being expressed. 

They then log into Social Media and have these isolated views mirrored by their friends and friends of friends.

We now have a whole mass group of young PPL who are way to idealistic about what is actually achievable and electable policy for the voting public at large. You would think that Brexit and Trump would be big enough warning signs that their protests on far too broad issues and votes for Radical Left Minor Parties were and remain roads to nowhere in terms of achieving political change.

Personally even for myself Brexit and ESP Trump alongside a underperforming pathetic Coalition PM (Who sprouted many a line about being Socially Progressive prior to being PM) has made me question recently that things have pushed far to right politically domestically and in other nations closely politically aligned to Australia.

The fact is that never before has a Centre-Left party like the ALP which can actually form Government been more relevant to this group of PPL.  However, they would prefer to continue to pursue the bloody impossible rather than pursue the Political Possibilities that the ALP offers of a Halt to Ultra Conservative Government and Gradual Social Progression.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

22 minutes ago, cadete said:

It is a major concern that PPL can allow themselves to watch Free to Air TV (The ABC in general and stuff like The Project) then read a major print newspaper (Fairfax) and listen to Nationwide Radio (ABC and JJJ) and hear only one Political Viewpoint being expressed. 

They then log into Social Media and have these isolated views mirrored by their friends and friends of friends.

We now have a whole mass group of young PPL who are way to idealistic about what is actually achievable and electable policy for the voting public at large. You would think that Brexit and Trump would be big enough warning signs that their protests on far too broad issues and votes for Radical Left Minor Parties were and remain roads to nowhere in terms of achieving political change.

Personally even for myself Brexit and ESP Trump alongside a underperforming pathetic Coalition PM (Who sprouted many a line about being Socially Progressive prior to being PM) has made me question recently that things have pushed far to right politically domestically and in other nations closely politically aligned to Australia.

The fact is that never before has a Centre-Left party like the ALP which can actually form Government been more relevant to this group of PPL.  However, they would prefer to continue to pursue the bloody impossible rather than pursue the Political Possibilities that the ALP offers of a Halt to Ultra Conservative Government and Gradual Social Progression.

Does Ultra conservative government even exist in western countries though? Family first and the Christian Party don't have any real standing in countries like Australia. I'd have thought Modern Liberal Party values are more centrist than conservative. Dave Rubin's quotes on the new political centre seem to ring true enough to me.15969938_10158541700000131_294805217_n.jpg

  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Just now, bt50 said:

Does Ultra conservative government even exist in western countries though? Family first and the Christian Party don't have any real standing in countries like Australia. I'd have thought Modern Liberal Party values are more centrist than conservative. Dave Rubin's quotes on the new political centre seem to ring true enough to me.15969938_10158541700000131_294805217_n.jpg

"Ultra Conservative" might be taking it a bit far to describe the current Coalition Party, of course they remain a centralist party however I do think we have the most Conservative Coalition Government in Office since Gough Whitlam.

I mean think about it Fraser had Migration, Howard had Gun Laws and Costello had the Baby Bonus... I am just listing social policies here not whether they were good policies or if their creators were good politicians (Fraser was a shocker of a PM FWIW).

It is very hard to pull up any example of the current Federal Government actually making an attempt at a Socially Minded Policy despite the fact that the bloke who is PM pumped his own tyres as the Progressive Liberal well over a decade.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

49 minutes ago, cadete said:

It is a major concern that PPL can allow themselves to watch Free to Air TV (The ABC in general and stuff like The Project) then read a major print newspaper (Fairfax) and listen to Nationwide Radio (ABC and JJJ) and hear only one Political Viewpoint being expressed. 

 

Doesnt that apply to everybody? How many Liberal voters stick to the Herald Sun, Andrew Bolt, Today Tonight and Steve Price/Alan Jones etc? Everybody just wants to consume the media that they agree with. 

The Age isn't perfect but I think its the most neutral newspaper in Victoria and I'm probably one of the very few who pay a subscription for it as I believe it's the only way to help stop media from all turning into buzzfeed. It'll be a scary day when no media outlets have the resources to perform proper investigative journalism. 

Edited by hedaik
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Just now, cadete said:

"Ultra Conservative" might be taking it a bit far to describe the current Coalition Party, of course they remain a centralist party however I do think we have the most Conservative Coalition Government in Office since Gough Whitlam.

I mean think about it Fraser had Migration, Howard had Gun Laws and Costello had the Baby Bonus... I am just listing social policies here not whether they were good policies or if their creators were good politicians (Fraser was a shocker of a PM FWIW).

It is very hard to pull up any example of the current Federal Government actually making an attempt at a Socially Minded Policy despite the fact that the bloke who is PM pumped his own tyres as the Progressive Liberal well over a decade.

Is it arguable that enforcing Gun Laws is actually a conservative policy, given it flies in the face of liberalism? (Not that I'm against it fwiw, Australia's gun policy is spot on imo.)

Honestly I think Abbott was on the right track, but probably more from a fiscal point of view. He really struggled at selling the bigger picture tho and ultimately the 'what about me' camp of everyone with self interest were able to exploit the cuts as a negative.
Turnbull has been nothing short of shithouse; standing for nothing, making zero inroads fiscally and letting the country stagnate. At least if we'd had an ALP government over Turnbull we might have got some sort of infrastructure out of the whole mess.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 minutes ago, hedaik said:

Doesnt that apply to everybody? How many Liberal voters stick to the Herald Sun, Andrew Bolt, Today Tonight and Steve Price/Alan Jones etc? Everybody just wants to consume the media that they agree with. 

The Age isn't perfect but I think its the most neutral newspaper in Victoria and I'm probably one of the very few who pay a subscription for it as I believe it's the only way to help stop media from all turning into buzzfeed. 

Mate, I could on at length about The Age but I CBF... as there is an very easy foolproof way to test what is the most Neutral Paper in Victoria which is to head into any Newsagent/7 Eleven at Midday at look at which Newspaper has sold out and which one remains there in a huge pile.

33 minutes ago, hedaik said:

Doesnt that apply to everybody? How many Liberal voters stick to the Herald Sun, Andrew Bolt, Today Tonight and Steve Price/Alan Jones etc? Everybody just wants to consume the media that they agree with. 

The Age isn't perfect but I think its the most neutral newspaper in Victoria and I'm probably one of the very few who pay a subscription for it as I believe it's the only way to help stop media from all turning into buzzfeed. 

The PPL you have described who for Political Information only listen to Shock jocks, watch crap Current Affairs programs and read the Opinion Articles in the Sun are all at least well over forty and are a dying breed (At least outside of WA and QLD). We all know that the biggest Trump fans on here are far more informed than what these news services offer and use a much more advanced way of keeping politically informed than this ancient method that reached its peak in 1992.

However you haved missed my real point... which is that the PPL who do follow the Redneck Media they are not receiving any warning signals in the Political Arena that they should not carry on and do so. Trump, Brexit, The Modern Australian Coalition Government would all be victories to a lot of these types and not horrendous defeats like they are to those in the Left or even something in the dead Centre like me.

Clearly in 2017 Conservatism is at an all time high and the only way to stop this trend is for Generation X and Y to realise it has to adopt a Central Left approach or continue to be heard everywhere (TV, Radio, Print, and Social Media) than where it actually matters: In Government.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

26 minutes ago, cadete said:

 as there is an very easy foolproof way to test what is the most Neutral Paper in Victoria which is to head into any Newsagent/7 Eleven at Midday at look at which Newspaper has sold out and which one remains there in a huge pile.

I wouldn't say thats fool proof at all, maybe The Age started with double the supply in the morning and they both sold the same by lunch. Maybe theres more Liberal voters than there are Labor at that particular newsagent. Maybe Herald Sun have more trashy articles to appeal to the lowest common denominator. More people read Womens Weekly than National Geographic in Australia, that doesnt prove anything about which one is neutral. 

I always thought The West was a good paper when I lived in Perth, have no idea what its like nowadays though. 

Edited by hedaik
Link to comment
Share on other sites

23 minutes ago, Tesla said:

Too late.

Whatever you think of either of the main papers and how downhill theyve gone,  they are still both critical for their investigative journalism and keeping organisations/politicians etc honest. Its not like reddit or buzzfeed are going to be cracking cases of corruption. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

29 minutes ago, hedaik said:

Whatever you think of either of the main papers and how downhill theyve gone,  they are still both critical for their investigative journalism and keeping organisations/politicians etc honest. Its not like reddit or buzzfeed are going to be cracking cases of corruption. 

They do a lot of click bait these days TBH, but yes there are still some higher quality articles.

I think eventually there will be a paradigm shift in the internet world where people get more used to paying for subscriptions to access websites etc., that would then be a boost to news providers and we might see a higher quality of articles.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 hours ago, cadete said:

Mate, I could on at length about The Age but I CBF... as there is an very easy foolproof way to test what is the most Neutral Paper in Victoria which is to head into any Newsagent/7 Eleven at Midday at look at which Newspaper has sold out and which one remains there in a huge pile.

The PPL you have described who for Political Information only listen to Shock jocks, watch crap Current Affairs programs and read the Opinion Articles in the Sun are all at least well over forty and are a dying breed (At least outside of WA and QLD). We all know that the biggest Trump fans on here are far more informed than what these news services offer and use a much more advanced way of keeping politically informed than this ancient method that reached its peak in 1992.

However you haved missed my real point... which is that the PPL who do follow the Redneck Media they are not receiving any warning signals in the Political Arena that they should not carry on and do so. Trump, Brexit, The Modern Australian Coalition Government would all be victories to a lot of these types and not horrendous defeats like they are to those in the Left or even something in the dead Centre like me.

Clearly in 2017 Conservatism is at an all time high and the only way to stop this trend is for Generation X and Y to realise it has to adopt a Central Left approach or continue to be heard everywhere (TV, Radio, Print, and Social Media) than where it actually matters: In Government.

 

I wouldn't lump Gen X in that category.  We've had our 20 years worth dose of reality.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, hedaik said:

I wouldn't say thats fool proof at all, maybe The Age started with double the supply in the morning and they both sold the same by lunch. Maybe theres more Liberal voters than there are Labor at that particular newsagent. Maybe Herald Sun have more trashy articles to appeal to the lowest common denominator. More people read Womens Weekly than National Geographic in Australia, that doesnt prove anything about which one is neutral. 

I always thought The West was a good paper when I lived in Perth, have no idea what its like nowadays though. 

What I was talking about is basically applicable to most newsagents... the difference in readership between the two papers is both significant and growing. (You can find the numbers if you like as I cant be bothered looking for stats to confirm something that's been happening for around twenty years.)

And I concede The Herald's less sophisticated nature helps with sales, but I still think something has to be said for how one of a major city's paper's readership is on a average day three times that of its rival.

Its fairly obvious than such a trend points to the fact that "The Politically Disinterested Victorian" choses to read The Herald and not The Age which IMO "The Politically Disinterested Victorian" is probably the best indication that The Herald feels like a more neutral paper by those in the electorate of Victorian.

If you want to completely dismiss sales figures as being a result of the Political Ignorance/Liberal Partisanship the question still has to be asked why is The Age so far off the mark with what has been expressed by both our own electorate and those electorates aboard of obvious interest to Victorians in that of the US and UK?

Every week The Age panders to the Identity Politics of the Far Left in its extensive Opinion Pages... Religion, Race, and Gender being played as the key battlegrounds to fight the conservative paths chosen by electorates here and abroad. The same arguments are argued week after week and read and agreed upon by the same readers week after week... I am never going to deny that Age readers are the most politically aware.

However that is the problem... The Age has become less a Paper and more a Political Pamphlet and the longer it attempts to tackle things like One Nation, Trump and Brexit with Identity Politics where no concessions due to Political Correctness can be made for the average person...

Well then the further they move away from a realistic and achievable way to halting what is happening in the world ATM which by using the vehicle we have used in the path of The Centre Left.

 

 

Edited by cadete
  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

16 minutes ago, cadete said:

 

If you want to completely dismiss sales figures as being a result of the Political Ignorance/Liberal Partisanship the question still has to be asked why is The Age so far off the mark with what has been expressed by both our own electorate and those electorates aboard of obvious interest to Victorians in that of the US and UK?

Well I will completely dismiss sales figures as its a completely senseless way to prove something so subjective. Otherwise we'd probably all have to agree with Telsla on Drake being good. I also don't see why the current rise of the right is relevant, a newspaper shouldn't be pandering to whatever views are on trend for the time. A newspaper should just be reporting the facts in an unbiased and non sensationalist way and I think that The Age does it in a better manner than the Herald Sun does. 

Edited by hedaik
Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, hedaik said:

Well I will completely dismiss sales figures as its a completely senseless way to prove something so subjective. Otherwise we'd probably all have to agree with Telsla on Drake being good. I also don't see why the current rise of the right is relevant, a newspaper shouldn't be pandering to whatever views are on trend for the time. A newspaper should just be reporting the facts in an unbiased and non sensationalist way and I think that The Age does it in a better manner than the Herald Sun does. 

LOL - You will not think Newspaper sales mean nothing when you have to read the "Biased and Sensationalized" Herald Sun because The Age no longer exists... I guess it makes sense in a world where the Regressive Left tell us election results dont mean anything anymore either.

The fact is that we have the current rise of the right and the only alternative views to the New Right being presented to Victorians by The Age are a bunch of isolating agreements based on Identity Politics which get applauded by the few PPL who read the age and do nothing but assist the New Right with their cause.

No wonder the Bracks Government called "The Herald Sun".. The Good Paper.

Edited by cadete
Link to comment
Share on other sites

39 minutes ago, hedaik said:

Sounds like something that should be supporting my argument. 

I can't comment on how biased the Herald Sun is because I don't read it (almost exclusively read The Age online whilst sometimes reading BBC, Reuters and Fin Review), however I think the Age is very heavily biased.

I do agree that sales is not an adequate judge of how biased a paper is, as to me the Herald is practically a picture book for adults, which provides for easier reading and it's content tends to be more sport and entertainment heavy, which it would appear to be what the average reader wants.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Although the topic is about bias in newspapers which is neither a here nor there since papers have always had some bias. However I will add that in my lifetime newspapers have been migrating from reporting events, providing special weekly features, and a small content of opinion to becoming viewspapers with sports. If I go back 40 years ago and pick a random week and collect both The Age and The Herald-Sun vs the same week last year you will notice the difference (aside from the classifieds). Opinion is cheap as you need to provide a desk, a laptop, internet and done. Sports in Melbourne is cheap because AFL HQ is just around teh corner from both papers, the major sports stadiums are all within walking distance and the clubs are at beck and call. Reduce the staff that went out and collected events and you save money but it has been a pyrric victory since they continue to lose readership. To finish off I think that the views expressed by the papers are deliberate as in deliberately targeting demographics.

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

 Share

×
×
  • Create New...