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jw1739    7,092
1 hour ago, NewConvert said:

I have been thinking about this. And I am leaning towards the view that the constitutional framers have it right still. Three examples as to why this remains the case: Russian interference in the USA and German elections, the repeated attempts by hostile parties to break into defence (and recently succeeded), and the number of IS terrorists who were offspring of migrants but were born in the new country. This tells me that although it is a simple check it could remain effective on a first pass.

Conversely, there is nothing to stop an Australian citizen who meets S44 requirements from having a conflict of interest.

Nor, indeed, someone who has formally renounced their citizenship of a country that becomes hostile towards Australia from sympathising (and possibly actively working clandestinely for) that country. Hence, I suppose, the internment of German-Australians in WW1 and WW2.

The more we think about it, the murkier the whole business becomes.

I'm not actually arguing that the Constitution had it wrong at the time, more that IMO the High Court has erred in in its judgement in (perhaps only some of) these recent cases.

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cadete    6,081

It's kind of pointless to argue whether the Founding Fathers got it right or wrong on most things it was written in such a different time.

The section on Federal Powers was written specifically to protect State Rights and over time the High Court had effectively interpreted it as the opposite.

Likewise the whole concept of the Senate was to protect State Rights - And these days it just ends up putting a bunch of weirdos in Parliament for eight years on the back of a few miniscle votes in Tasmania and South Australia.

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Deeming    585

Turnbull's time is up.

He lost a cabinet decision on the citizenship audit "check-up report" and now James Campbell the Herald Sun journo who has been one of his cheerleaders has effectively called time on him.

The only question now is who will take over and when.

My guess he will wait and if the SSM survey gets up once  parliament then passes SSM, he will resign with that being his victory.

The 'who' is the harder question:
Julie Bishop has declined in support.

Scott Morrison has lost support of the conservatives and is tainted by the Turnbull budgets.

Peter Dutton may be seen as too inexperienced or not enough of a media performer.

That's about it for likely candidates though.

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malloy    3,153
1 hour ago, Deeming said:

Turnbull's time is up.

He lost a cabinet decision on the citizenship audit "check-up report" and now James Campbell the Herald Sun journo who has been one of his cheerleaders has effectively called time on him.

The only question now is who will take over and when.

My guess he will wait and if the SSM survey gets up once  parliament then passes SSM, he will resign with that being his victory.

The 'who' is the harder question:
Julie Bishop has declined in support.

Scott Morrison has lost support of the conservatives and is tainted by the Turnbull budgets.

Peter Dutton may be seen as too inexperienced or not enough of a media performer.

That's about it for likely candidates though.

From a purely political perspective, it might as well be Tony Abbott. It is likely we will lose the next election regardless, therefore bringing him back means that you gain the faith of the conservative voter base and you have a dogged opposition leader who will give Bill Shorten a tough time.  Then ideally bring in SM/PD/JB as the new leader leading into the following election as it is highly unlikely Abbott would ever be able to win another election. This of course would require TA to retire as leader a year out from the election. Something I am not sure he would be keen on doing, though you might be able to convince him that it is necessary for the survival of the party.

Edited by malloy
edit: the only issue is whether bring in TA for the next election would result in a bigger landslide than having MT at the helm in the next election.

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Deeming    585
13 minutes ago, malloy said:

From a purely political perspective, it might as well be Tony Abbott. It is likely we will lose the next election regardless, therefore bringing him back means that you gain the faith of the conservative voter base and you have a dogged opposition leader who will give Bill Shorten a tough time.  Then ideally bring in SM/PD/JB as the new leader leading into the following election as it is highly unlikely Abbott would ever be able to win another election. This of course would require TA to retire as leader a year out from the election. Something I am not sure he would be keen on doing, though you might be able to convince him that it is necessary for the survival of the party.

Possibly it would stem the loss of votes to One Nation and the Conservatives but I think the support he used to have within the parliamentary party has dried up. It would make sense for the next person to bring him back into cabinet though. I think if he sees Malcolm go he will be happy enough.

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malloy    3,153
6 minutes ago, Deeming said:

Possibly it would stem the loss of votes to One Nation and the Conservatives but I think the support he used to have within the parliamentary party has dried up. It would make sense for the next person to bring him back into cabinet though. I think if he sees Malcolm go he will be happy enough.

I was also thinking along the lines of not tainting a potential PM with a long stint in opposition.

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NewConvert    720
4 hours ago, malloy said:

I was also thinking along the lines of not tainting a potential PM with a long stint in opposition.

John Howard had two stints as opposition leader, so not sure about the concept of taint.

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cadete    6,081
20 hours ago, malloy said:

From a purely political perspective, it might as well be Tony Abbott. It is likely we will lose the next election regardless, therefore bringing him back means that you gain the faith of the conservative voter base and you have a dogged opposition leader who will give Bill Shorten a tough time.  Then ideally bring in SM/PD/JB as the new leader leading into the following election as it is highly unlikely Abbott would ever be able to win another election. This of course would require TA to retire as leader a year out from the election. Something I am not sure he would be keen on doing, though you might be able to convince him that it is necessary for the survival of the party.

The election is lost...a fresh PM with little time in the job and little time to be critiqued has a better chance of retaining seats than Abbott.

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hedaik    2,643

Facebook just got a little bit less enjoyable now that there won't be any No Voters having a cry everytime somebody mentions their support for SSM. 

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bt50    3,322
27 minutes ago, hedaik said:

Facebook just got a little bit less enjoyable now that there won't be any No Voters having a cry everytime somebody mentions their support for SSM. 

Not for the immediate future. Watch all the parties hijack it to suit their own interests.

Not to mention all the insufferable virtue signalling going on.

Edited by bt50
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n i k o    4,915
50 minutes ago, bt50 said:

Not for the immediate future. Watch all the parties hijack it to suit their own interests.

Not to mention all the insufferable virtue signalling going on.

TTDIM: Calling out all said virtue signallers on Facebook 

Edited by n i k o
TTDIM
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japiedog    799

So VICTORIA is the least homophobic of the States , with NSW  being the most homophobic

 

How the states voted
10:13

A state-by-state break down of participation and the result (ABS)

09f889f94cde4db9a335eb6e06cb71f6.ashx

 

 

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n i k o    4,915
18 minutes ago, japiedog said:

So VICTORIA is the least homophobic of the States , with NSW  being the most homophobic

This sentence is a TTIM 

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n i k o    4,915
3 minutes ago, japiedog said:

pourquoi ?

 

The way the term 'homophobia' has been transformed to be used to label people that have an opposing view to the gay/lesbian community. 

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hedaik    2,643
38 minutes ago, n i k o said:

TTDIM: Calling out all said virtue signallers on Facebook 

Dont think Id be getting dinner cooked for me tonight if I were to do that

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japiedog    799
19 minutes ago, n i k o said:

The way the term 'homophobia' has been transformed to be used to label people that have an opposing view to the gay/lesbian community. 

Fair  enough ,just showing the stats.....  & light  hearted banter...

 

 

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bt50    3,322

Geez Labor and the Greens must be losing their shit over the stats breakdown. 9 of the top 10 no voting electorates held by Labor (other is National) and most of the no vote electorates are from the more multicultural areas.

The racist, bigoted, privileged old white people have fucked them over again!

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cadete    6,081
7 minutes ago, bt50 said:

Geez Labor and the Greens must be losing their shit over the stats breakdown. 9 of the top 10 no voting electorates held by Labor (other is National) and most of the no vote electorates are from the more multicultural areas.

The racist, bigoted, privileged old white people have fucked them over again!

Same sort of patterns occurred in the Republican Referendum.

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japiedog    799
19 minutes ago, bt50 said:

Geez Labor and the Greens must be losing their shit over the stats breakdown. 9 of the top 10 no voting electorates held by Labor (other is National) and most of the no vote electorates are from the more multicultural areas.

The racist, bigoted, privileged old white people have fucked them over again!

my electorate voted no...

it has the highest ratio of immigrants in Victoria , so not just racist, bigoted, privileged old white people, ( that's me)

 

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hedaik    2,643
24 minutes ago, bt50 said:

Geez Labor and the Greens must be losing their shit over the stats breakdown. 9 of the top 10 no voting electorates held by Labor (other is National) and most of the no vote electorates are from the more multicultural areas.

The racist, bigoted, privileged old white people have fucked them over again!

Guessing theres a large amount of tradies in those electorates?

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bt50    3,322
23 minutes ago, hedaik said:

Guessing theres a large amount of tradies in those electorates?

Bloody unions ;) 

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jw1739    7,092
33 minutes ago, japiedog said:

my electorate voted no...

it has the highest ratio of immigrants in Victoria , so not just racist, bigoted, privileged old white people, ( that's me)

Racist, bigoted, old, white.....can say "yes" to all those, but where does the "privileged" come into it?

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japiedog    799
11 minutes ago, jw1739 said:

Racist, bigoted, old, white.....can say "yes" to all those, but where does the "privileged" come into it?

true, immigrant to this country too, father was a factory worker, mother in a textiles "production line" , not too much privilege there

 

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jw1739    7,092
On 11/15/2017 at 3:11 PM, japiedog said:

true, immigrant to this country too, father was a factory worker, mother in a textiles "production line" , not too much privilege there

I have to keep reminding myself that we old, white, racist, bigoted, hetero males are directly responsible for everything that anyone in the world wants or wanted but hasn't got or didn't have.

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NewConvert    720
3 hours ago, jw1739 said:

I have to keep reminding myself that we old, white, racist, bigoted, hetero males are directly responsible for everything that anyone in the world wants or wanted but hasn't got or didn't have.

Don't pat yourself too hard on the back.

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NewConvert    720
8 hours ago, thisphantomfortress said:

Apparently pretty well. Could just solve the problem through immigration reform though.

Dimitirious Gargasoulas was born in Oz.

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2 hours ago, NewConvert said:

Dimitirious Gargasoulas was born in Oz.

TBH I just said it to be a troll.

On a side note I happen to know his half brother (not the one constantly in the news, the other one who was also in the news) the whole family is fucked it seems. 

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NewConvert    720
6 hours ago, thisphantomfortress said:

TBH I just said it to be a troll.

On a side note I happen to know his half brother (not the one constantly in the news, the other one who was also in the news) the whole family is fucked it seems. 

Then we need better contraceptives.

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jw1739    7,092
4 minutes ago, japiedog said:

So some tax cuts for the middle classes ..........

Oh, I thought he meant tax cuts for the LGBTIQ+ community...they are his flavour of the year.

Seriously, Malcolm, get a grip. Now that the SSM opinion poll has been conducted and has delivered a result, could we get on with actually running the country for the benefit of all Australians? Which means that we don't suspend planned sittings of either parliamentary house but get on with some serious business.

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4 minutes ago, jw1739 said:

Oh, I thought he meant tax cuts for the LGBTIQ+ community...they are his flavour of the year.

Seriously, Malcolm, get a grip. Now that the SSM opinion poll has been conducted and has delivered a result, could we get on with actually running the country for the benefit of all Australians? Which means that we don't suspend planned sittings of either parliamentary house but get on with some serious business.

TBH at a federal level life just keeps ticking away for me, sure tax cuts will be nice but this government hasn't been too invasive.

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japiedog    799
24 minutes ago, thisphantomfortress said:

TBH at a federal level life just keeps ticking away for me, sure tax cuts will be nice but this government hasn't been too invasive.

seems like a bit of a "look here look here" tax cuts, more money for you ......

"Don't look there , Don't look there ...." we can't govern cos we haven't got the numbers .....

 

Edited by japiedog

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