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cadete
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It's kind of pointless to argue whether the Founding Fathers got it right or wrong on most things it was written in such a different time.

The section on Federal Powers was written specifically to protect State Rights and over time the High Court had effectively interpreted it as the opposite.

Likewise the whole concept of the Senate was to protect State Rights - And these days it just ends up putting a bunch of weirdos in Parliament for eight years on the back of a few miniscle votes in Tasmania and South Australia.

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  • 2 weeks later...

Turnbull's time is up.

He lost a cabinet decision on the citizenship audit "check-up report" and now James Campbell the Herald Sun journo who has been one of his cheerleaders has effectively called time on him.

The only question now is who will take over and when.

My guess he will wait and if the SSM survey gets up once  parliament then passes SSM, he will resign with that being his victory.

The 'who' is the harder question:
Julie Bishop has declined in support.

Scott Morrison has lost support of the conservatives and is tainted by the Turnbull budgets.

Peter Dutton may be seen as too inexperienced or not enough of a media performer.

That's about it for likely candidates though.

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1 hour ago, Deeming said:

Turnbull's time is up.

He lost a cabinet decision on the citizenship audit "check-up report" and now James Campbell the Herald Sun journo who has been one of his cheerleaders has effectively called time on him.

The only question now is who will take over and when.

My guess he will wait and if the SSM survey gets up once  parliament then passes SSM, he will resign with that being his victory.

The 'who' is the harder question:
Julie Bishop has declined in support.

Scott Morrison has lost support of the conservatives and is tainted by the Turnbull budgets.

Peter Dutton may be seen as too inexperienced or not enough of a media performer.

That's about it for likely candidates though.

From a purely political perspective, it might as well be Tony Abbott. It is likely we will lose the next election regardless, therefore bringing him back means that you gain the faith of the conservative voter base and you have a dogged opposition leader who will give Bill Shorten a tough time.  Then ideally bring in SM/PD/JB as the new leader leading into the following election as it is highly unlikely Abbott would ever be able to win another election. This of course would require TA to retire as leader a year out from the election. Something I am not sure he would be keen on doing, though you might be able to convince him that it is necessary for the survival of the party.

Edited by malloy
edit: the only issue is whether bring in TA for the next election would result in a bigger landslide than having MT at the helm in the next election.
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13 minutes ago, malloy said:

From a purely political perspective, it might as well be Tony Abbott. It is likely we will lose the next election regardless, therefore bringing him back means that you gain the faith of the conservative voter base and you have a dogged opposition leader who will give Bill Shorten a tough time.  Then ideally bring in SM/PD/JB as the new leader leading into the following election as it is highly unlikely Abbott would ever be able to win another election. This of course would require TA to retire as leader a year out from the election. Something I am not sure he would be keen on doing, though you might be able to convince him that it is necessary for the survival of the party.

Possibly it would stem the loss of votes to One Nation and the Conservatives but I think the support he used to have within the parliamentary party has dried up. It would make sense for the next person to bring him back into cabinet though. I think if he sees Malcolm go he will be happy enough.

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6 minutes ago, Deeming said:

Possibly it would stem the loss of votes to One Nation and the Conservatives but I think the support he used to have within the parliamentary party has dried up. It would make sense for the next person to bring him back into cabinet though. I think if he sees Malcolm go he will be happy enough.

I was also thinking along the lines of not tainting a potential PM with a long stint in opposition.

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20 hours ago, malloy said:

From a purely political perspective, it might as well be Tony Abbott. It is likely we will lose the next election regardless, therefore bringing him back means that you gain the faith of the conservative voter base and you have a dogged opposition leader who will give Bill Shorten a tough time.  Then ideally bring in SM/PD/JB as the new leader leading into the following election as it is highly unlikely Abbott would ever be able to win another election. This of course would require TA to retire as leader a year out from the election. Something I am not sure he would be keen on doing, though you might be able to convince him that it is necessary for the survival of the party.

The election is lost...a fresh PM with little time in the job and little time to be critiqued has a better chance of retaining seats than Abbott.

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27 minutes ago, hedaik said:

Facebook just got a little bit less enjoyable now that there won't be any No Voters having a cry everytime somebody mentions their support for SSM. 

Not for the immediate future. Watch all the parties hijack it to suit their own interests.

Not to mention all the insufferable virtue signalling going on.

Edited by bt50
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50 minutes ago, bt50 said:

Not for the immediate future. Watch all the parties hijack it to suit their own interests.

Not to mention all the insufferable virtue signalling going on.

TTDIM: Calling out all said virtue signallers on Facebook 

Edited by n i k o
TTDIM
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Geez Labor and the Greens must be losing their shit over the stats breakdown. 9 of the top 10 no voting electorates held by Labor (other is National) and most of the no vote electorates are from the more multicultural areas.

The racist, bigoted, privileged old white people have fucked them over again!

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7 minutes ago, bt50 said:

Geez Labor and the Greens must be losing their shit over the stats breakdown. 9 of the top 10 no voting electorates held by Labor (other is National) and most of the no vote electorates are from the more multicultural areas.

The racist, bigoted, privileged old white people have fucked them over again!

Same sort of patterns occurred in the Republican Referendum.

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19 minutes ago, bt50 said:

Geez Labor and the Greens must be losing their shit over the stats breakdown. 9 of the top 10 no voting electorates held by Labor (other is National) and most of the no vote electorates are from the more multicultural areas.

The racist, bigoted, privileged old white people have fucked them over again!

my electorate voted no...

it has the highest ratio of immigrants in Victoria , so not just racist, bigoted, privileged old white people, ( that's me)

 

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24 minutes ago, bt50 said:

Geez Labor and the Greens must be losing their shit over the stats breakdown. 9 of the top 10 no voting electorates held by Labor (other is National) and most of the no vote electorates are from the more multicultural areas.

The racist, bigoted, privileged old white people have fucked them over again!

Guessing theres a large amount of tradies in those electorates?

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33 minutes ago, japiedog said:

my electorate voted no...

it has the highest ratio of immigrants in Victoria , so not just racist, bigoted, privileged old white people, ( that's me)

Racist, bigoted, old, white.....can say "yes" to all those, but where does the "privileged" come into it?

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On 11/15/2017 at 3:11 PM, japiedog said:

true, immigrant to this country too, father was a factory worker, mother in a textiles "production line" , not too much privilege there

I have to keep reminding myself that we old, white, racist, bigoted, hetero males are directly responsible for everything that anyone in the world wants or wanted but hasn't got or didn't have.

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4 minutes ago, japiedog said:

So some tax cuts for the middle classes ..........

Oh, I thought he meant tax cuts for the LGBTIQ+ community...they are his flavour of the year.

Seriously, Malcolm, get a grip. Now that the SSM opinion poll has been conducted and has delivered a result, could we get on with actually running the country for the benefit of all Australians? Which means that we don't suspend planned sittings of either parliamentary house but get on with some serious business.

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4 minutes ago, jw1739 said:

Oh, I thought he meant tax cuts for the LGBTIQ+ community...they are his flavour of the year.

Seriously, Malcolm, get a grip. Now that the SSM opinion poll has been conducted and has delivered a result, could we get on with actually running the country for the benefit of all Australians? Which means that we don't suspend planned sittings of either parliamentary house but get on with some serious business.

TBH at a federal level life just keeps ticking away for me, sure tax cuts will be nice but this government hasn't been too invasive.

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24 minutes ago, thisphantomfortress said:

TBH at a federal level life just keeps ticking away for me, sure tax cuts will be nice but this government hasn't been too invasive.

seems like a bit of a "look here look here" tax cuts, more money for you ......

"Don't look there , Don't look there ...." we can't govern cos we haven't got the numbers .....

 

Edited by japiedog
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16 minutes ago, jw1739 said:

I reckon all future major road construction should be by private enterprise and be paid for by tolls.

I have no problem helping to pay for things by tolls but why is it only acceptable that this applies to roads? Try adding a Medicare co-payment and you are evil.
Tolls are really co-payments and they should apply to (virtually) everything the government supplies.
If the public cannot see enough value in the service to help pay for it, then the government shouldn't be paying for it.


 

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Governments do not pay for anything - taxpayers do. What really you're saying is "If the users cannot see enough value in the service to help pay for it, then the taxpayers should not be paying for it."

A sentiment I agree with in general terms, but IMO there have to be boundaries around that. A civilised society must have safety nets. It's a matter of what's in the net and what is not.

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2 hours ago, Deeming said:

I have no problem helping to pay for things by tolls but why is it only acceptable that this applies to roads? Try adding a Medicare co-payment and you are evil.
Tolls are really co-payments and they should apply to (virtually) everything the government supplies.
If the public cannot see enough value in the service to help pay for it, then the government shouldn't be paying for it.


 

:clap::clap::clap: 

 

I'm actually all for toll roads, all freeways should be tolled, only because its impractical to toll the other roads as well.

At the same time, PT users should have to pay closer to the true cost of their transport as well, rather than receiving a very substantial subsidy.

Yet to see a good reason to not have a GP co-payment TBH, people should be very happy paying $10 to see a GP rather than paying $60 or w/e it should actually cost.

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