Football Federation Australia National Roads and Motorists' Association Limited Insurance Westfied Western Sydney Wanderers FC v Melbourne Heart

[Jimmy]

Fuck these Wanderers scum.

[Joel21]

we play well when the ball is kept on the deck, hoofing long balls for us doesn't work

[kingofhearts]

So fucking annoyed at this club at the moment. Sick of fucking excuses about people out.

Fuck this shit

[belaguttman]

Not directly, but indirectly you can. It's not as if it's the first time that the team has shown these weaknesses. So as a coach, the action you take is not to select those who are not performing. Many of these things the team showed all through the second half of last season, and in games 2-4 of this current season. So why persist into game 5? We are just not doing some of the basics of playing football, and we are just not learning from our mistakes. Five games into the season; we've already called up the two youngest members of the senior squad, and promoted one of the youth squad. Just shows what dire straits we're in.

This season is going to hinge on whether Aloisi has the nous and the balls to make some hard decisions, some of which are going to involve his mates, and if we don't improve, possibly on whether Peter Sidwell has the balls to make an equally hard decision.

I agree but the problem is if you were coach and dropped every play with poor decision making who would you pick? All these players have contracts you can't just sack them and hire some more. As you say, this is a legacy problem that has been with the club on the field in every season. It is the coach's job to help the players improve their skills but you can only work with what you've got and once on the field it's up to the players. I'll reserve my judgement until we see a fit Grella in the team, I suspect that suddenly we'll look a lot better much as we did when Madaschi arrived.

[toogood18]

Still furious that Petreski didn't start at LB last night, give the kid a chance he's a gun

[jw1739]

I agree but the problem is if you were coach and dropped every play with poor decision making who would you pick? All these players have contracts you can't just sack them and hire some more. As you say, this is a legacy problem that has been with the club on the field in every season. It is the coach's job to help the players improve their skills but you can only work with what you've got and once on the field it's up to the players. I'll reserve my judgement until we see a fit Grella in the team, I suspect that suddenly we'll look a lot better much as we did when Madaschi arrived.

Well, if you have so many players in the senior squad who are consistently making poor decisions on the field then you have a systemic problem in the squad. So you perhaps have some personal tensions between players or players and coaches, or your overall squad selection in the first place was flawed. Or both. Add to that the seemingly endless collection of injuries that we have and you end up in the mess that we are in.

The time for excuses is over. I'll bet a coach such as Arnold would get a lot more out of our squad than they are presently delivering.

[jw1739]

Still furious that Petreski didn't start at LB last night, give the kid a chance he's a gun

Possibly Mitchinson was preferred purely on an age, size and experience basis? He's 20 and is physically bigger than Petreski. But the way we're going Petreski must get a start soon.

[belaguttman]

Well, if you have so many players in the senior squad who are consistently making poor decisions on the field then you have a systemic problem in the squad. So you perhaps have some personal tensions between players or players and coaches, or your overall squad selection in the first place was flawed. Or both. Add to that the seemingly endless collection of injuries that we have and you end up in the mess that we are in.

The time for excuses is over. I'll bet a coach such as Arnold would get a lot more out of our squad than they are presently delivering.

yes we could play like CCM and grind out results if that's what we are interested in but hopefully we are aiming for better football. I agree that our squad selection is a big part of the problem but we are stuck with players that have contracts whether we like it or not. I'm not sure why we signed Gray if we aren't going to use him, he played well enough in the Hawaii tournament to deserve a start. Colosimo does some good things but overall is a liability in his propensity to collect red cards and concede penalties - he could have given another one away last night. Marrone is a great right back until he gets anywhere near the box and his final ball is always poor. Thompson is past his best in the style of game we are trying to play. These small problems are cumulative and deliver the repeated mistake ridden on-field performances.

[Peter]

I don't think our squad is the problem. The players we have in every position are as good as those at other clubs. The problem is players being played out of position in a formation that has struggled to work from day one. Even when we got to second on the ladder the performances were hardly dominating.

I have said (probably on another thread) that Gerhardt is not a central defender as his positioning and pushing up when he should drop back opens up opportunities for the oposition. His own goal looked clueless. Why when we have Gray (international spot) and Vrankovic (the next Curtis Good) in the squad are we playing Gerhardt as CB when he was signed as a defensive midfielder?

Our goalkeeper, defenders, midfielders and attackers are all quality players yet the system we are deploying is flat.

I would get Gerhardt out of the backline and change the formation in front of the back four. Last season I complained that players (eg. Terra) were not suited to the style we are playing. Nothing has changed this season.

We have the players to do well in the league but either the players or the 4-3-3 formation need to change. I would rather it be the latter.

[Rellum]

Belaguttman, Peter, jw1739,

Poor passing and decision making is just is much about lacking direction and formation as it is about lacking the skills and intelligence. I agree that the curent selections of players out of postion or lacking the skill to play a certain position is hampering the team, but if players are unsure where their team mates or going to be during an attack or they are unsure where they should be moving will lead to poor decision making and hesitant passing.

The really worrying thing is that JA thinks we played quite well last night.

Edited November 2, 2012 by Rellum

[kontra.11]

7 players out usually means a lot like Aloisi said, but with the way it is at the moment, it means nothing because Aloisi doesn't know how to use them anyway..

Our play is dependant on individual brilliance to create chances because our system is rubbish. I could see we had big problems in the Port Melbourne friendly game and the team hasn't progressed since then.

JVS actually changed to 4-3-1-2 at the end of last season because 4-4-3 wasn't working and also experimented with 3 at the back against certain teams. Time for Aloisi to try something other than playing the same players out of position and those that aren't performing and hope for the best. Hard to see that happen though when Aloisi says that he is "quite happy" after every loss, including the Wellington game which pretty much counts as a loss..

Also congrats to Milicic who the club turned its back on after he did the hard yards..

[Sash]

Yes we're missing some players. But it's the manner we're trying to play that I find really discouraging at the moment. We will potentially have the best midfield in the league when they're all available. But what's the point if we're going to bypass them by booting it over their heads and giving posession back to the opposition?

I don't mind losing so much if we're trying to instill a decent style of football. But it looks like we've given up on that. I think we desperately need a fit Grella to be able to distribute the ball from the back. Gerhardt's long balls didn't amount to much in pre-season, and they're still not amounting to anything.

[Dylan]

I have a bad feeling about Grella breaking down after a couple of games

[fiz.heart]

The really worrying thing is that JA thinks we played quite well last night.

he said the same thing after last weekends game and it almost made me vomit.

he needs to realise that his not coaching the youth team anymore.

[jw1739]

The aim of football is to win. Sometimes that involves grinding out a result, hopefully it involves playing a decent style of football more often than not. I don't see the two as being mutually exclusive when measured over a season. The blind pursuit of one objective to the exclusion of the other is not intelligent. In any case, we are achieving neither. The results are poor, and the football is boring and predictable.

I thought that our aim was to win the league. I remember JA saying it. As it is, the task of even making the finals is getting harder by each match. 36 points probably required, 4 in the kitty after 5 games. So at least 32 points required from 22 games. That's either >10 wins, or 10 wins and two draws.

So every loss from here on in makes finals even less likely.

If JA thinks we're playing well, I don't want to be there when we're playing badly.

[Peter]

I have a bad feeling about Grella breaking down after a couple of games

Maybe he will or maybe he won't. Gerhardt plays good short balls but his long passing (if you can call it that) leaves a lot to be desired. Yet another reason for him to be played in defensive midfield now so we have another proven option along with Germano.

[mus-28]

We don't have the players with the correct skill set to be playing a 4-3-3, particularly in defence. Marrone can't cross, Colosimo and Gerhardt can't defend and Behich needs more cover at LB.

I'd rather see a 4-2-3-1 with 2 screening midfielders to cover the fullbacks, and the attacking midfield 3 given the opportunity to roam across the park rather than sticking to the flanks and putting shit crosses in for the defence to head away.

We have Grella, Gerhardt & Marrone who can all play DM and win the ball, then Garcia, Fred, Dugandzic, Kalmar and Gol Gol who can play in the advanced role behind Tadic.

Redmayne

Germano - Vrankovic - Gray - Behich

Grella/Gerhardt - Marrone

Duganzic - Fred - Garcia

Tadic

[perthheart]

Is becoming increasingly clear we don't have the players capable of playing 4-3-3. Players lack the movement, fluidity and passing accuracy to get the system working.

Possibly time to get back to basics with a 4-4-2 or 4-2-3-1. At the moment it looks like we aren't anywhere near well drilled enough to get players into positions to open up defences. Perhaps a more accountable rigid system will yield better results. If jvs couldn't get it working in that system can't expect a first time coach to.

My hopes were that our improved squad this season would change things around. It appears to definitely not be the case though. For two and a bit seasons to have now passed with a large number of players gOing through that system and it not to have worked yet it has to be time for a re-think. We still have one of the better squads going around the league no reason for us to be in this position.

[Murfy1]

Disappointing match. Although we were missing several players, such as definite starters like Fred and Williams, and quality depth like Germano, Garuccio and Vrankovic, so perhaps it wasn't that bad. Grella would really come in handy right now as well. When you have Hoffman starting in midfield, Behich being played as LW, and the new youth team player Mitchinson starting at LB you can't expect too much.

First half was rather poor. Our Achilles' heel right now is playing out from the back. Our central defenders, Gerhardt and Colosimo, stop our attacks before they've truly begun by attempting ambitious long balls again and again. I can now understand why JVS fell out with Colosimo, because he simply is a liability when it comes to building up from the back. Gerhardt looks too much like a converted CB and whilst, like Colosimo, he provides good defence he's not much help when we have the ball.

Ono was probably lucky to stay on, but as Aloisi said in the post match press conference we have to get on with it. Nonetheless, it is always a headache when new refs don't have the cojones to referee.

We got better as we fell further behind. Our best moment was Tadic's excellent goal. Not at all an easy feat for a striker to score when you get such poor service, so credit to him. Tadic had an excellent game all up, making the most out of the meager opportunities he had on goal and he combined well with his teammates the few times we managed to get the ball up to him (his passing was much improved the first couple of games, where it was not good at all). If this match gives Tadic the confidence to go on and have a solid season then we'll get a lot out of this loss.

Mitchinson I thought had a fairly good game, but was a bit out of position for the Wanderers' second goal. Dugandzic was surprisingly quiet. Garcia, along with Tadic, were by far our best on field.

I reckon we'll naturally get better as our best players come into the squad, and Hoffman doesn't need to start in midfield, Behich doesn't have to play as LW and youth team players don't need to start and play 90 minutes. But at the same time I reckon we could improve the tactics and football we're playing despite several of our best players being out, mainly by improving our possession and build up from the back. One thing for sure is we could have a solid season if Tadic maintains that level of performance, and especially if we provide him with decent service.

[biancorosso7]

Garcia has been the shining light for me so far this season.

Good to see Tadic proving himself on a tough night.

Have to agree with the sentiments about us needing to change the 4-3-3 formation. With a glut of midfielders, we should consider something that gets a larger number of them on the pitch. How about a 3-5-2 or a 3-4-3? How many other teams are going to be prepared against that formation as opposed to the 4-3-3 or variations thereof?

[FB.]

Still furious that Petreski didn't start at LB last night, give the kid a chance he's a gun

Poor lads still locked in my basement I'm afraid.