Melbourne Heart and Melbourne City attendances

[belaguttman]

3 minutes ago, Tony999 said:

Every member signs up a mate. 16k members. Simple

It's not that simple, I can't even get them to come when I offer them a free ticket. The team has a real image problem that is currently divorced from the reality of how we are playing but that's how it is.

[Tony999]

We've missed the boat when it comes to members and attendances. Win, loose, draw, we will have a slight increase every year. That's the reality until there are drastic changes and those drastic changes don't have to be directly associated with MCFC.

[Tommykins]

7 hours ago, belaguttman said:

It's not that simple, I can't even get them to come when I offer them a free ticket. The team has a real image problem that is currently divorced from the reality of how we are playing but that's how it is.

I think this might be true for only a certain group of people, this year it has been super easy for me to convince people to come to games.

[belaguttman]

3 hours ago, Tommykins said:

I think this might be true for only a certain group of people, this year it has been super easy for me to convince people to come to games.

All my friends have become disillusioned, bitter and twisted like me

[jw1739]

I think we worry too much about City attendances. I have to confess that I quite like going to matches where there 8,000 - 10,000 - nice and easy in terms of public transport and getting in and out of the ground, and enough "atmosphere."
Also we tend to overlook that in S1 our average non-derby attendance was 5,828, and so far this season (S6) it is 8,400...an increase of 44%. So it's not all bad.
I think that there are two main reasons why attendances are lower than they could be at this stage in our history. The first is that I suspect many people (and I certainly did) overestimated the positives that would come out of the change in ownership. FFA jumped in with the "Lampard Rule" and effectively killed off the possibility that we could get one or two loan players in from the rest of CFG, and then the club botched its first international marquee signing and behaved deceptively with its first guest player. The change in name was generally accepted, but the change in colours, plus the negatives already mentioned, left many feeling that Melbourne City was in fact a whole new club rather than a continuation of Heart. So in essence we started again from square one.
My second reason is that IMO FFA and the club don't really know what their target audiences are, both for the league as a whole (FFA) and for Melbourne City (as a club). Consequently the advertising/marketing/selling - whatever you like to call it - is disjointed and diffuse. For the club I think it's a mistake to wash everything in sight with a blue rinse and to keep mentioning "Manchester" in such things as competition prizes, and to produce merchandise that looks more and more like Sydney and Melbourne Victory. IMO the club will continue to struggle to connect with Melbourne people until it starts to market the "Melbourne City brand" instead of the "CFG brand."

[jeffplz]

We should probably create our own geographical divide, lol. Put a poll up on where the members of the forum live and claim the most popular burbs as our own. Sticker bomb the streets. Get some of our local bombers to paint trains and walls in Melb City colours and names. Profit.

Edited March 26, 2016 by jeffplz

[Torn Asunder]

The people of Melbourne who like quality football should recognise that we now are (and always will be) the superior premium club in Victoria (and the country to be honest), and they should get behind us and we should be filling AAMI regularly. 

This season at times has been a dream to watch with the likes of Mooy and Bruno ... and long may it continue 

Edited March 26, 2016 by Torn Asunder

[n i k o]

 

With a capacity of 12,000 this would be amazing for us right now. 

[Tony999]

Does Sasa Ognjenovski support Melbourne City? Just saw him and his kids at Northland Shopping Centre with his son wearing a Melbourne City cap.

[jw1739]

1 hour ago, n i k o said:

 

With a capacity of 12,000 this would be amazing for us right now. 

There's a few of these sorts of new stadiums in the UK. This one cost 20 million British pounds, and opened in 2012 two years after  planning permission was granted.

Edited April 6, 2016 by jw1739

[thisphantomfortress]

20 minutes ago, jw1739 said:

There's a few of these sorts of new stadiums in the UK. This one cost 20 million British pounds, and opened in 2012 two years after  planning permission was granted.

On the fox sports podcast today they were discussing how NPL clubs have botique stadiums and that the a league clubs should consider it because it looks shit when they're empty 

[jw1739]

That's fine, but the problem is money. Let's suppose you could duplicate Rotherham's stadium here for A$60m (which I doubt based on the horrendous construction costs that seem to prevail here) and overcome the usual NIMBY opposition that plagues any infrastructure proposal in this country, then you'd need to be saving A$3m per year over your current stadium deal to have a 20-year payback period. You would also be faced with the stadium upkeep costs, currently paid for by the stadium owners here and reflected in the stadium deals, but against that you would presumably benefit from the revenue raised at the ground (unless FFA got their grubby fingers on it).
With the restrictions and uncertainties that continue to swirl around the A-League, what owner is going to invest that sort of money? Sadly I think it's just a dream that many of us have.

[Thrillhouse]

3 hours ago, Tony999 said:

Does Sasa Ognjenovski support Melbourne City? Just saw him and his kids at Northland Shopping Centre with his son wearing a Melbourne City cap.

trained with us during an off season once didn't he?

[Tony999]

41 minutes ago, Thrillhouse said:

trained with us during an off season once didn't he?

Can't remember. But he is a massive unit. Didn't realise he was so big.

[Tesla]

4 hours ago, Tony999 said:

Does Sasa Ognjenovski support Melbourne City? Just saw him and his kids at Northland Shopping Centre with his son wearing a Melbourne City cap.

He said a few times he would finish his career at Preston Lions (doesn't seem to have happened as I think he just straight up retired after Sydney, maybe injuries got the better of him) because that is the team he supports, dunno if he supports anyone in the A-League. Probably just his son supports City, kids dont give a fuck about old school clubs, they care about who is on the TV.

[Deeming]

Quote

Melbourne City flying in the A-League but crowds are down on last season

April 6, 2016 8:32pm

MATT WINDLEY Herald Sun

 

IF Melbourne City can’t get a decent crowd to its crucial final round clash with Adelaide at AAMI Park on Friday night then there will be many a head being scratched at the club’s Bundoora headquarters next week.

This is a team that is arguably the most entertaining to ever play in the A-League and yet there is still a reticence from the Melbourne sporting public to get behind its charge for a maiden title.

In fact, despite breaking a bevy of records this season, City’s average home crowds — excluding derbies against Melbourne Victory — are actually down 5.7 per cent on 2014-15.

Here’s just a snapshot of the new benchmarks City has set.

MOST goals in a season — 63.

HIGHEST individual goal scorer in a season — Bruno Fornaroli, 22.

Everyone is fawning over Fornaroli and Mooy, but there’s also Alex Wilkinson, Ivan Franjic, Michael Zullo and Patrick Kisnorbo who boast considerable Socceroos experience.

So what’s not to like?

The David Villa effect temporarily boosted crowds last season given a total of 28,800 people attended his two home games.

That goes some way to explaining why this season’s non-derby AAMI Park average has dropped from 9041 in 2014-15 to 8536 so far this campaign.

But not all the way.

Generally there has been gradual improvement since 2010-11 when an average of 5826 fans attended the club’s 13 non-derby games at AAMI Park.

That figure rose to 6743 in 2011-12, then 7069 in 2012-13 and 7741 in 2013-14 before last season’s spike.

The whole comparison with Victory has been done to death.

But to compare to other competitors the Melbourne Storm (rugby league) averaged more than 13,000 for home games last season, the Melbourne Rebels (rugby union) about 9000, the Melbourne Vixens (netball) 5000 and the ever-improving Melbourne United (basketball) close to 8000.

City was bitterly disappointed by the 7658 crowd for its hugely important Friday night clash with Brisbane last month, but heartened by the 9895 turnout for the Easter Monday match against lowly Wellington.

There was massive positivity about the team on talkback radio following that game and the club will be hoping that flows in to the Adelaide clash given that, with a win, City can still snatch the premier’s plate.

With no AFL in Melbourne on Friday night and perfect weather forecast, there are no excuses.

Poor crowds getting media coverage. Not great. Pretty poor that we are averaging less than a Rugby Union crowd

[Heart of Melbourne]

Fold the club after Friday's game. 0-3

[Torn Asunder]

Our growth is on the slow burner.  I am not fearful however, as the game will continue to grow and we are a quality product, underpinned by a structure that puts us in the best possible position to eventually be a powerhouse in terms of success, support & attendance / membership.  There may be a few spikes here and there following events such as the FFA changing market restrictions & the World Cup, etc, but our growth will generally be slow, steady and sustained.

[Victards]

Not sure how many times this needs to be said, but our season ticket prices and ticket prices are fucking ridiculous. If we were to cut both by half of what they are, we would be hitting 10K on both season ticket holders and match day attendances.

We praise our selves on being a 'family' club but if the club actually did there research, they would know the living cost in this city and country is a fucking joke, yet we're charging families up to or over $100 to sit in fucking Prem A or B seating.

The problem is very easily fixable, but i have no fucking idea why the club is so reluctant to do so. 

[bt50]

15 minutes ago, Victards said:

Not sure how many times this needs to be said, but our season ticket prices and ticket prices are fucking ridiculous. If we were to cut both by half of what they are, we would be hitting 10K on both season ticket holders and match day attendances.

We praise our selves on being a 'family' club but if the club actually did there research, they would know the living cost in this city and country is a fucking joke, yet we're charging families up to or over $100 to sit in fucking Prem A or B seating.

The problem is very easily fixable, but i have no fucking idea why the club is so reluctant to do so. 

Would we?

$25 for a GA ticket is about par with the AFL, perhaps even slightly cheaper (I think its $30). Granted Premium A & B are pretty expensive, but that just means more people take up Premium C/GA seats. Im sure there is a very small %, maybe 1% that go 'fuck, no cheap wing seats so I wont go' but I reckon the vast majority would just sit in the ends. Given we've only ever sold out GA once (Newcastle last year), I don't think it will make much, if any difference by dropping Premium A & B ticket prices.

Of course you could drop Premium C/GA prices as well and that might correlate to increased attendance, but I'd hazard a guess that $15 tickets might only improve attendances to 11-12k, to which the club actually loses out on revenue than 9k @ $25

Edited April 7, 2016 by bt50

[n i k o]

But AFL clubs have memberships plus the cost of ticket prices don't they? So their membership might be $200 but they have to spend an additional cost of $20-30 to buy tickets to the game? Can someone clarify this because this is what I've heard. 

[bt50]

6 minutes ago, n i k o said:

But AFL clubs have memberships plus the cost of ticket prices don't they? So their membership might be $200 but they have to spend an additional cost of $20-30 to buy tickets to the game? Can someone clarify this because this is what I've heard. 

Nah. GA memberships are the same as ours.

What can happen though, is when a game looks like being sold out that clubs can declare a game fully ticketed in which case a GA member is required to go online and 'book a seat'. Basically that just consists of the booking fee that Ticketek charges, not dissimilar to our GA members reserving a seat for home derbies.

FWIW, if a game wasn't fully ticketed (and this goes for any sport with this membership setup including us), clubs would run the risk of either a) having a sell out with potentially a half full stadium or b ) having GA members locked out at the gate due to capacity being reached. 

Edited April 7, 2016 by bt50

[n i k o]

2 minutes ago, bt50 said:

Nah. GA memberships are the same as ours.

What can happen though, is when a game looks like being sold out that clubs can declare a game fully ticketed in which case a GA member is required to go online and 'book a seat'. Basically that just consists of the booking fee that Ticketek charges, not dissimilar to our GA members reserving a seat for home derbies.

Ok gotcha. While we're at it what about MCC memberships? 

[bt50]

5 minutes ago, n i k o said:

Ok gotcha. While we're at it what about MCC memberships? 

My understanding of MCC memberships is they have x amount issued, who also have access to a couple 'guest passes' at a fee each game. Once capacity is reached at any given game, its bad luck, you can't come in. That's why they queue overnight for the Grand Final. FWIW, that rarely happens in the H&A season.

That could be wrong though, I've never been into the members nor looked into joining.

I was an AFL member for a few years and with that you can basically access any Melbourne game (MCG or Etihad) as a GA ticket, but same rule applies whereby if its fully ticketed you need to pay the booking fee to reserve a seat.

Edited April 7, 2016 by bt50

[belaguttman]

59 minutes ago, bt50 said:

Would we?

$25 for a GA ticket is about par with the AFL, perhaps even slightly cheaper (I think its $30). Granted Premium A & B are pretty expensive, but that just means more people take up Premium C/GA seats. Im sure there is a very small %, maybe 1% that go 'fuck, no cheap wing seats so I wont go' but I reckon the vast majority would just sit in the ends. Given we've only ever sold out GA once (Newcastle last year), I don't think it will make much, if any difference by dropping Premium A & B ticket prices.

Of course you could drop Premium C/GA prices as well and that might correlate to increased attendance, but I'd hazard a guess that $15 tickets might only improve attendances to 11-12k, to which the club actually loses out on revenue than 9k @ $25

The franchise is asking people to take a risk in buying a ticket, a bigger risk in buying a season ticket. What has been made clear by the attendance figures is that people see the risk/reward equation as marginal. This season we've increased the quality of the football on the pitch but its still being assessed as marginal. One way to tip the balance in favour of risk is to reduce ticket prices

[JohnK]

A few NPL games I have been to this season so far were all $15 and that's with limited seating and amenities available.

[jw1739]

I really wish that journos would start asking the hard questions. He lists the improvements that we've seen this season and finishes with the question "So what's not to like?"

I agree that ticket prices are too high - amongst the highest in the league - and that is one of a number of contributing reasons but I don't think it's a major reason. The two major reasons for me are:
- the club, both Heart and City, has gained a reputation, largely justified, of being "chokers"; and
- people are not enamoured of the "Melchester City" appearance that the club now has.

I'm sure growth will happen, season by season as Torn sets out above, but this season has already shown that it is not going to be an immediate and direct function of on-field performance.

[bt50]

5 minutes ago, jw1739 said:

The two major reasons for me are:
- the club, both Heart and City, has gained a reputation, largely justified, of being "chokers"; and
- people are not enamoured of the "Melchester City" appearance that the club now has.

This.

In response, imo keep on keeping on. Results will convert those on the fence. Fuck the haters cause they aint comin back anyway.

[Shahanga]

4 hours ago, jw1739 said:

I really wish that journos would start asking the hard questions. He lists the improvements that we've seen this season and finishes with the question "So what's not to like?"

I agree that ticket prices are too high - amongst the highest in the league - and that is one of a number of contributing reasons but I don't think it's a major reason. The two major reasons for me are:
- the club, both Heart and City, has gained a reputation, largely justified, of being "chokers"; and
- people are not enamoured of the "Melchester City" appearance that the club now has.

I'm sure growth will happen, season by season as Torn sets out above, but this season has already shown that it is not going to be an immediate and direct function of on-field performance.

(I claim Melchester^TM )

As I implied on the City Voice thread I'm just "hanging on" as a supporter.  TBH I would rather support a club that was independent and battling than winning a few more games but being this soulless Melchester City my Melbourne Heart has become (i know others see it differently but truthfully this is how I feel).   Anyway I'm still here, basically "rusted on" from the Heart era i guess.

In regards to crowds a number of my friends have said they can't support City because "they are just a mini Man City" or words to that affect.  The Man U supporter amongst them is a given (no great loss), but the others are a worry for the Melchester people.  

[belaguttman]

The issue in New York also seems to be a dislike of the 'mini-Man City' identity. The issue in both Australia and US is that it resonates with colonisation. There's much good that can come from the Man City connection but colonisation is not one of them.

[Tony999]

49 minutes ago, Shahanga said:

(I claim Melchester^TM )

As I implied on the City Voice thread I'm just "hanging on" as a supporter.  TBH I would rather support a club that was independent and battling than winning a few more games but being this soulless Melchester City my Melbourne Heart has become (i know others see it differently but truthfully this is how I feel).   Anyway I'm still here, basically "rusted on" from the Heart era i guess.

In regards to crowds a number of my friends have said they can't support City because "they are just a mini Man City" or words to that affect.  The Man U supporter amongst them is a given (no great loss), but the others are a worry for the Melchester people.  

Sorry mate, but l disagree. It was awfully painful watching Melbourne Heart play and the environment they were in. Someone mentioned it before, if CFG didn't save our arses, a couple more years of Heart and l reckon FFA would've pulled the pin on Heart. Me personally, l couldn't give a rats what colour we are even though l would've liked our original colours, but now that our facilities are world class players actually want to play for our professional club. Lost some supporters but at the same time we gained some so it balances itself out. As the game grows so will the crowd.

[Shahanga]

1 minute ago, Tony999 said:

Sorry mate, but l disagree. It was awfully painful watching Melbourne Heart play and the environment they were in. Someone mentioned it before, if CFG didn't save our arses, a couple more years of Heart and l reckon FFA would've pulled the pin on Heart. Me personally, l couldn't give a rats what colour we are even though l would've liked our original colours, but now that our facilities are world class players actually want to play for our professional club. Lost some supporters but at the same time we gained some so it balances itself out. As the game grows so will the crowd.

Sorry Tony you misunderstood, I'm not talking for anyone else, just for me, so you can't "disagree".  How you feel, is not how I feel, and above, is how I feel about the whole thing. 

[Tony999]

23 hours ago, Tesla said:

He said a few times he would finish his career at Preston Lions (doesn't seem to have happened as I think he just straight up retired after Sydney, maybe injuries got the better of him) because that is the team he supports, dunno if he supports anyone in the A-League. Probably just his son supports City, kids dont give a fuck about old school clubs, they care about who is on the TV.

I remember the guy coming over to Melb Knights from Preston Lions. The guy had imense pace. I remember talking to some older guy 15 years ago, he said as a kid he was a shit kicker, he couldn't kick a ball but had pace so his junior coach back then saw he had potential and pulled him aside and spend a lot of the time teaching him how to kick a ball.

[belaguttman]

35 minutes ago, Tony999 said:

Sorry mate, but l disagree. It was awfully painful watching Melbourne Heart play and the environment they were in. Someone mentioned it before, if CFG didn't save our arses, a couple more years of Heart and l reckon FFA would've pulled the pin on Heart. Me personally, l couldn't give a rats what colour we are even though l would've liked our original colours, but now that our facilities are world class players actually want to play for our professional club. Lost some supporters but at the same time we gained some so it balances itself out. As the game grows so will the crowd.

Tony I think the problem was that FFA didn't give a shit how their Melbourne franchise was performing otherwise they would have intervened earlier. They certainly learned their lesson and handled the WSW creation differently (although of course the circumstances were different) but clearly they had no performance benchmarks for their franchisees. I never bought into the whole 'Heart has no identity' thing that the visitors fans mindlessly trot out, neither franchise has an identity as such, both are creations of FFA, but I do think that teams do have to have some local relevance and 'mini-Man City' has been so unhelpful that our vastly improved football (at home anyway) has made little difference to attendances. We rarely even get all our season ticket holders to attend FFS.

Edited April 7, 2016 by belaguttman

[hakz7]

I seriously hate the term 'identity' that's thrown around. I asked a Victory fan once what their identity was (as he claimed we don't have one) and he said "To be the best team in the country and Asia"... Pretty sure that's half of if not the whole league's goal. And how is that an identity?..

How can any A-League team have an 'identity' if the most they've been alive for is 11 years? 

[jeffplz]

58 minutes ago, hakz7 said:

How can any A-League team have an 'identity' if the most they've been alive for is 11 years? 

Geographically. Every team is geographically distinct from every other team, except for City and Victory. That's the identity we're looking for

[NewConvert]

13 hours ago, jw1739 said:

I really wish that journos would start asking the hard questions. He lists the improvements that we've seen this season and finishes with the question "So what's not to like?"

I agree that ticket prices are too high - amongst the highest in the league - and that is one of a number of contributing reasons but I don't think it's a major reason. The two major reasons for me are:
- the club, both Heart and City, has gained a reputation, largely justified, of being "chokers"; and
- people are not enamoured of the "Melchester City" appearance that the club now has.

I'm sure growth will happen, season by season as Torn sets out above, but this season has already shown that it is not going to be an immediate and direct function of on-field performance.

I have been thinking about the growth issue and I am going to compare it first with the Victorian AFL clubs. North Melbourne FC has been around for a long time with a defined geographical identity. In the 90s they were a very successful club yet their membership has always been small. In contrast Hawthorn begun the 80s with a medium size membership base and had a decade long successful period but mid 90s the club almost became extinct. The Hawks however managed to get themselves out of that hole and became one of the largest clubs in the Victorian AFL. Footscray has a similar tale but without the premiership success.

Looking at the Sydney Swans/GWS and Lions/GCS, the Swans have had on-field success and the Lions were triple premiership winners. Yet their membership base remains low. And to my mind the A-League resembles more of an AFL team in foreign territory rather than the Victorian clubs.

So my point would be that perhaps even if on field success does come to the club the membership base may not be that huge after all. And having an identity does not guarantee membership either.

[Tommykins]

9 hours ago, belaguttman said:

The issue in New York also seems to be a dislike of the 'mini-Man City' identity. The issue in both Australia and US is that it resonates with colonisation. There's much good that can come from the Man City connection but colonisation is not one of them.

NYCFC averaged the second or third highest crowds, didn't they? Don't confuse people complaining on a forum with actual numbers.

[Silverback]

Re the Identity discussion, and I don't travel so I don't know, hence the question - when we talk identity, if the only thing any a-league club has is geography....is this also true aorund the world, what distinguishes clubs in Europe that are based in the same city? e.g. Manchester United v Manchester City - 2 clubs, 1 city, what's their geographical distinction or their 'identity'? same with Inter Milan and AC Milan? Athletico Madrid and Real Madrid? the list goes on and I'm sure more knowledgable people than me could list more....but what makes a kid go for Man U v Man City, AC Milan v Inter Milan etc etc

[Embee]

The only people I know that tell me our team is a 'Mini-Manchester City' are Tard fans to be honest and I personally couldn't give a fuck what they think.