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Melbourne Heart and Melbourne City attendances


Jimmy
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2 hours ago, jw1739 said:

I hear what people are saying, but there isn't really any "should" about attendances at our matches. Not at anyone else's for that matter. It was always going to be a slow build of support, especially because as it's turned out we have never won anything and been notoriously inconsistent in our football.

Actually our attendances are slowly increasing. Average non-derby home attendances over the period of our existence have been:
2010-11:  5,828;
2011-12:  6,472;
2012-13:  7,075;
2013-14:  7,255;
2014-15:  9,074 (8,009 excluding the two David Villa matches);
2015-16 so far:  8,466.

Those figures said, I do agree with many of the comments made in various threads about why our attendances are low. At least some of our ticket prices are way too high, especially for one or two adults. I still see quite a few casuals buying tickets at the gate, and rows of empty seats in the members' bays, so much of the shortfall is in fact members not turning up - something I don't understand. The David Villa affair did some serious long-term damage to the club, and overall we've made pretty poor use of our visa signings over the six seasons. Yesterday, as an example, thanks to Novillo's stupidity just two of our visa players were on the park and only one of those was an outfield player.

The club appears to be adamant that it will not reduce season-ticket prices, so that option seems to be off the table. All I can see therefore is that we have to be more consistent in our football, actually win silverware to take us into the ACL, and to make full use of our visa, marquee and guest opportunities. Everything else is really just tinkering around the edges.

At the end of the day football is entertainment. Sure, we identify with the team and many of us with a strong enough identification will attend regardless of results however this will not grow whilst our results are so inconsistent. WSW, Roar or MV have a bad game but their record of success reassures casuals or new supporters that there's a good chance that the next game will be entertaining. We have few entertaining loses, the team doesn't turn up, the play is shambolic, they go to sleep at crucial periods, they play one good half of football if we're lucky. Nobody would pay to see a band that had such inconsistent live performances, or read the whole Harry Potter series for the odd good chapter. The admission price has to reflect the perceived value and at the moment that is low for casuals and new fans.

I doubt that this will change until we've had several successful seasons in a row

Edited by belaguttman
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4 hours ago, Tony999 said:

So we have approx. 3000 Greeks rocking up to our games? Well then get Samaras ffs!

I personally know about 20 people who went to that game and half of them arent greek who otherwise would have been at aami park. Its poor scheduling by the ffv as many people do follow both leagues. Similar situation on friday night with victory as well.

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On 21/02/2016 at 9:22 PM, Tony999 said:

All these excuses. Not saying yours in particular is bull, but what about Friday night games? I can't stand that time slot as l do not work in the city. So by the time l leave work in peak hour, come home, eat and need to speed to get to the game. Sitting 3 points behind the leaders we should be getting 10k+ regardless what time.

True but you know who would solve our attendance problem?

Samaras

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  • 3 weeks later...
10 hours ago, Heart of Melbourne said:

City Group have a lot of work to do. Last nights crowd was pathetic given what was at stake. 

Over our six seasons so far we have played 17 league non-derby Friday matches at AAMI Park. The average attendance has been 7244. Last night's attendance of 7658 was therefore pretty close to that average
There's actually very little difference between that average and those for Saturday and Sunday (21, 7161 and 23, 7669 respectively).
Yes, I think that it's a valid comment to say that City has a lot of work to do if they want those numbers to improve.

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5 minutes ago, jw1739 said:

Over our six seasons so far we have played 17 league non-derby Friday matches at AAMI Park. The average attendance has been 7244. Last night's attendance of 7658 was therefore pretty close to that average
There's actually very little difference between that average and those for Saturday and Sunday (21, 7161 and 23, 7669 respectively).
Yes, I think that it's a valid comment to say that City has a lot of work to do if they want those numbers to improve.

A lot of work or only a little work and less money in the short term.
Slash ticket prices and crowds will come.

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16 hours ago, jw1739 said:

Over our six seasons so far we have played 17 league non-derby Friday matches at AAMI Park. The average attendance has been 7244. Last night's attendance of 7658 was therefore pretty close to that average
There's actually very little difference between that average and those for Saturday and Sunday (21, 7161 and 23, 7669 respectively).
Yes, I think that it's a valid comment to say that City has a lot of work to do if they want those numbers to improve.

The CFG takeover has had zero impact on Friday night games, there's improvement on other days though but there's no evidence that a City game is a priority activity, if you aren't one of the rusted on 8,000 it seems to be what you do if there's nothing else to do

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Average for all league matches at AAMI Park excluding derbies:

S1: 5,828.
S2: 6,472.
S3: 7,075.
S4: 7,255.
S5: 9,074 (with the two Villa matches excluded that drops to 8,009).
S6: 8,400 so far.

I don't know enough about marketing to make too many comments. However, I venture to say that there is growth in attendances, albeit slow, indicating a growing connection between the club and the community. Also, looking down the spreadsheet, the impact of the "big name" players Del Piero and Villa is very obvious.

I think I will reserve judgement on the impact or otherwise of CFG until we see what happens in the run home, and in the off-season in terms of player and coaching positions. 

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41 minutes ago, jw1739 said:

Average for all league matches at AAMI Park excluding derbies:

S1: 5,828.
S2: 6,472.
S3: 7,075.
S4: 7,255.
S5: 9,074 (with the two Villa matches excluded that drops to 8,009).
S6: 8,400 so far.

I don't know enough about marketing to make too many comments. However, I venture to say that there is growth in attendances, albeit slow, indicating a growing connection between the club and the community. Also, looking down the spreadsheet, the impact of the "big name" players Del Piero and Villa is very obvious.

I think I will reserve judgement on the impact or otherwise of CFG until we see what happens in the run home, and in the off-season in terms of player and coaching positions. 

If you really want to be concerned compare those numbers to those of the visitors over the same period of time

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I've seen more advertising for Melbournians from stickers around the F1 compared to advertising for Melbourne City (there was none).  While both Melbourne Stars and Melbourne's NBL team had stalls set up

Edited by haz
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7 minutes ago, haz said:

I've seen more advertising for Melbournians from strikers around the F1 compared to advertising for Melbourne City (there was none).  While both Melbourne Stars and Melbourne's NBL team had stalls set up

Lost opportunity as the visitors fans are at AAMI now

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I think it's an attitude problem in the club administration (despite the good reports we have about the new HQ). Not advertising City at a major event such as the F1 (even though I hate the bloody thing myself) is simply looking a gift horse in the mouth. As is having just one person, but nothing else except a few leaflets, in the membership tent on Swan Street outside AAMI last Friday night. As is not having anyone answer the phone at the weekend (as has been reported to me is the case although I have no personal experience of that). As is  when I found a membership card outside AAMI last season and contacted the club by e-mail with name and number only to receive no answer whatsoever. And so on and so forth.

Overall I think there's an over-emphasis on the "brand" on the package and not enough on the bloody biscuits that are actually inside it.

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6 hours ago, jw1739 said:

 

I don't know enough about marketing to make too many comments. 

 

1 hour ago, jw1739 said:

 

Overall I think there's an over-emphasis on the "brand" on the package and not enough on the bloody biscuits that are actually inside it.

Showing your lack of knowledge about marketing JW. In my experience this is ALL they do.

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Sadly had experience of this. I have contacted them on at least 3 occasions, called in once to suggest ideas and offer my help and even had a rep on FRG follow them up. Not once have I had a reply. They smack to me of employers who trot out the empty "our staff are our most valuable asset" because they have to not because they believe it.

I even wonder how much notice the club takes of the FRG.  It is so disappointing as the fan base is an incredibly knowledgeable and passionate asset that could help drive things forward.

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Zullo on SEN this morning spoke about how low our numbers are. It was a bit disheartening that you could hear that he is genuinely disappointed in how our crowd numbers are still low especially in such a big game against Brisbane last week. And it's a fair point, we're playing their best football in the country of any team and its still not enough. I'm starting to wonder whether all the hope of winning silverwear to boost our membership base will actually come to fruition.

A lot of us believed our numbers would just soar the moment we started winning, unfortunately they aren't. Is there any garuntee that even if we win the premiers plate they will improve either? I suppose in fairness the season has been a bit of a slow burner in that we didn't start well and have many ups and downs. It's only really the last 3 weeks we have shown we are truly genuine title contenders. I'm hoping thats what it is. Still, I would have hoped last weeks game against the top side would have caught people's attention and encouraged them to come along. 

I think realistically what will determine our numbers at games over the long term will be our successes on the pitch and our ability to utilise our resources in bringing in potentials star studded players as marquees. Which is a shame as generally the best supported clubs anywhere are determined by their identity through geographical or cultural differences. Unfortunately while we have the Man City stigma associated with us and fail to have a true identity of our own in Melbourne then we are left only to our successes and resources to bring in the crowds. 

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On 19/03/2016 at 9:32 PM, Deeming said:

A lot of work or only a little work and less money in the short term.
Slash ticket prices and crowds will come.

We probably have to pay more if the second level is opened, so slashing ticket prices to get bigger crowds could be quite costly.

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20 minutes ago, n i k o said:

Zullo on SEN this morning spoke about how low our numbers are. It was a bit disheartening that you could hear that he is genuinely disappointed in how our crowd numbers are still low especially in such a big game against Brisbane last week. And it's a fair point, we're playing their best football in the country of any team and its still not enough. I'm starting to wonder whether all the hope of winning silverwear to boost our membership base will actually come to fruition.

A lot of us believed our numbers would just soar the moment we started winning, unfortunately they aren't. Is there any garuntee that even if we win the premiers plate they will improve either? I suppose in fairness the season has been a bit of a slow burner in that we didn't start well and have many ups and downs. It's only really the last 3 weeks we have shown we are truly genuine title contenders. I'm hoping thats what it is. Still, I would have hoped last weeks game against the top side would have caught people's attention and encouraged them to come along. 

I think realistically what will determine our numbers at games over the long term will be our successes on the pitch and our ability to utilise our resources in bringing in potentials star studded players as marquees. Which is a shame as generally the best supported clubs anywhere are determined by their identity through geographical or cultural differences. Unfortunately while we have the Man City stigma associated with us and fail to have a true identity of our own in Melbourne then we are left only to our successes and resources to bring in the crowds. 

This is not always the case, on the radio this morning they said in the AFL last season Richmond had the highest average attendance and they've always done well with membership despite being an average-poor team for 30+ years. Obviously the AFL has the advantage of having local identity support they we do not. I think 'winning' only really pays off long term. For example in the AFL you see this when a couple who support different teams have kids, the kids tend to go with the successful team.

The ready base of supporters - most 'Melbourne' football (soccer) fans who were waiting for a team to follow post NSL went with Victory. So Melbourne Heart/City needed to find another group of people to draw support from, something people identified with. When we came in, we had no 'identity' to go with other than the 'little brother' thing. That was fine and generated some support. But post-CFG our identity is even less clear. 'Little brother' or 'rich club'? 'Red and White' or 'White and blue' or 'Sky blue' or Red, White and Blue' club?  A 'Melbourne' club or a mini 'Manchester' club? So where will this other support come from? It needs to be either families or EPL fans or general sports fans. But we are too expensive for many families ~$70 (compared to NBL ~$30-40 for families or Big Bash $42.50 for families). The more the Man City connection is played up the less likely of getting support from EPL fans or general sports fans because for general sports fans, Aussies generally will enjoy contests against the English and EPL fans won't want to overly support an club that mirrors and EPL rival.

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Success resulting in crowd numbers is an interesting consideration, and reading the article by City's Fan Engagement Manager, it was highlighted that it needs to be sustained success and that it will occur over time.  AND in the meantime, a key focus should be to work hard to keep the rusted on fans happy.

Unfortunately, our sport in Melbourne is just not mainstream enough at present, and the negative press on crowd issues has not helped.  There is no doubt that there are plenty of 'stay away' but interested passive supporters, and I often get quizzed by work colleagues and friends about how the team has played and whether we have won or lost, etc, but turning these interested people into true supporters is very difficult.

At present, we have so much going for our club, but we are not in the limelight. People should be coming to watch us, but they are not.  We are playing some dazzling football, but the stadium is embarrassingly devoid of spectators. 

If we have success this season, there will probably be a small above the curve bump in our numbers, but I really think the next TV deal will be the key to growing the game further, and for the sport to be considered more mainstream.

For our last two games, it would also be great if someone thought of some type of fan based gorilla campaign to get the numbers through the doors to support the boys ... I dont know, perhaps "Target 10k Stand up for City" or some other clever words to enable fans to drive attendance.

I even think some of our own fans have become a bit complacent about attending and don't view going to a game as essential.  For me, my mindset is that I wont ever miss a home game.  Quite frankly, I enjoy nothing more than cheering on the lads from within the stadium.

Also, with existing fans, the club should reward members by how many games they attend ... for instance, if you attend every home game, you get 25% of next years membership, or something to that effect. 

 

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What is missing is passion. Its there in the 8,000 rusted ons, ir at least in enough of them but Melbourne City as an idea and as a brand just doesn't emotionally resonate at all in the community. If you try a word association in the community with the words 'Melbourne City', the response will be either 'who?' or else words like 'flakey', or 'the other club'. We are the shit sibling team as opposed to WSW that is associated with words like 'passion' (amongst other less flattering words). 

Its emotional engagement that attracts people and we aint got it

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@Deeming Aware it's not always the case but it's certainly the case for us which is what I was alluding to. You only have to search through this forum to see that winning and silverwear is the answer to our problems. I agree with most of what you've said though, however I don't think Heart had only the little brother identity. Yes that did exist to a certain degree but the club also tried to identify itself through playing a possession based brand of football and promoting youth players, which it did. 

Regarding victree getting first dibs on Melbourne supporters was totally the fault of FFA. If you've ever read the Crawford report back in 2003 you'll see his findings showed that two Melbourne clubs being in incepted  back in 2005 could and would be the best way forward for the new league. People could then have a choice and the clubs could organically grow to separate themselves for what they stood for. FFA had different ideas and decided to give a monopoly to one team in each city so that there was no competition for them and they could collect all the supporters within that city. This way it would garuntee the success of the team. When they started us up we had to manufacture our own growth, and without a geographical or cultural difference we were left to our success on the pitch. Which we failed to acheive any. Unfortunately now we are in no better position than we were back in 2009. Our membership is only higher than back then because of the potential success and player draw cards we may bring (amongst other smaller reasons). Last season was a perfect example how our membership grew through 'potential' success and star power in Villa and has dropped through inconsistent results atand lack of star power throughout most of this season. 

The same problems exist now, and like you say maybe to a higher degree because of the Man City attachment. But the blame sits with FFA mostly because they fucked up at the beginning and the fucked up when they introduced Heart. 

Edited by n i k o
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11 minutes ago, belaguttman said:

What is missing is passion. Its there in the 8,000 rusted ons, ir at least in enough of them but Melbourne City as an idea and as a brand just doesn't emotionally resonate at all in the community. If you try a word association in the community with the words 'Melbourne City', the response will be either 'who?' or else words like 'flakey', or 'the other club'. We are the shit sibling team as opposed to WSW that is associated with words like 'passion' (amongst other less flattering words). 

Its emotional engagement that attracts people and we aint got it

Agree. Passion doesn't just exist. There has to be a reason why supporters feel connected and are emotionally attached when it comes to their club.  WSW firstly have a geographical divide which unites the community. You can't drive through the western suburbs in Sydney without coming across a Wanderers sticker on a car, light post etc. We have no geographical divide. We aim to identify ourselves through our football, our successes and our star power. It's almost like marrying someone for the money and not for who they are, there's less emotional attachment. 

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I think it's premature to think that winning/silverware won't increase numbers.

We haven't won anything yet. We have for the first time became genuine contenders but until we win it we are only marginally better than previous seasons. 

Without knowing exact numbers but having a guess we would have had atleast 20 to 25k individuals who at some point bought a season ticket. Our churn rate would be high. As a starting point these people need to be re engaged. Only way is to win a title or 2. 

Problem is we have seen too many false dawns and many have been burnt before. My hope is that the last 3 weeks is the beginning of our dominance of the league and culminates in a championship. 

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2 hours ago, n i k o said:

@DeemingWhen they started us up we had to manufacture our own growth, and without a geographical or cultural difference we were left to our success on the pitch. Which we failed to acheive any. Unfortunately now we are in no better position than we were back in 2009. Our membership is only higher than back then because of the potential success and player draw cards we may bring (amongst other smaller reasons). Last season was a perfect example how our membership grew through 'potential' success and star power in Villa and has dropped through inconsistent results atand lack of star power throughout most of this season. 

The same problems exist now, and like you say maybe to a higher degree because of the Man City attachment. But the blame sits with FFA mostly because they fucked up at the beginning and the fucked up when they introduced Heart. 

The franchise was given to a group of investors who had no vision beyond 'community focused club'. Apart from us being privately owned and not a club, the community focus is meritorious and worthwhile but doesn't engender passion or attachment.

There was an initial commitment to playing possession based football but our arrival coincided with Ange's revolution at Roar and they played possession based football more effectively and more attractively. Now every team apart from Perth aspires to play possession based football. The Aloisi era destroyed any football philosophy basis for our existence as 'kick the long ball to the midget' was not the apotheosis of possession based football, far from it.

Through all this, as I've said FFA did nothing. Gold Coast and WSW showed that a new franchise could be competitive in their first season, remember that GCU finished 3rd in their first season, yet FFA, the controller of the franchise appeared to have no performance expectations of their franchisees in what should be a crucial market. The media put no pressure on Bambi until the team had gone 18 matches without a win and we are still dealing with the repercussions of that.

Interesting to note that success alone doesn't guarantee support - look no further than GCU - well funded (initially), good recruitment and well coached (initially anyway) yet no connection to the local community so the lesson for CFG is that success alone doesn't guarantee support especially when the visitors have a much larger trophy cabinet.

I'm in agreement with jw that ticket prices are a barrier to growth and the franchise has already clearly stated that they will increase next season. The automatic season ticket renewal 'offer' is unhelpful as support should be earned and not assumed and this is the wrong message from the franchise.

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