Melbourne vs Perth - 1pm September 22nd @ Epping

[jw1739]

Well, I'm glad I wasn't there, because if I had been my words would have been unprintable.

I'll leave it to others to give us an analysis of the game, but I can't see how we can take anything positive from it whatsoever. 0-5 is a humiliation. Perth have put eight goals past us in two games.

Having watched us versus Adelaide and the Mount Eliza XI we just seem incapable of creating meaningful goalscoring opportunities. Whatever we are trying to do just isn't working. It didn't work under JVS and it doesn't work under JA.

Keep calm and carry on I suppose.

[KSK_47]

I'll leave it to others to give us an analysis of the game

Well it wont be me. I dont want to talk about it

[Keeper]

What happened and does anyone know the starting lineup?

[loriente]

Marrone Collosimo Gerhardt Behich

Dugandzic Garcia Thompson Williams

Tadic Fred

Some kind of weird 442 it looked like.

[Libero]

fucks sake.

clean it up.

[spain82]

smashed 0-5? I'm glad I couldn't make it. Played against 2 A league sides and lost both of them. looks like all those games against youth teams where a waste of time. If that is our starting select for round 1 out today they should have got more than one pre-season game to gel.

[KSK_47]

Saw Muskrat in the stand taking notes.

[Puertoboca]

My first post on this site and it is not a good one. How demoralising two weeks before big KO, we have taken a big step backwards as a team.

There was 11 strangers on the park today, Tadic had no service, Mate and Williams were observers on wings as the midfield was playing too narrow.

There is a big problem at the back, we were exposed against Adelaide (which I gave excuses for) but today the trio (triad) at fault was Collosimo, Gehardt & Bolton. Today they would have looked more at home in a big top wearing red noses, there was no build up from the back at all. A bit of a pointless exercise of pass between the Triad until Gerhardt hoofs it diagonally up the park to the opposition or Bolton lobs straight to the oppositions best midfield player.

We were soft all over the park and too easily pushed around.

Whats happened to Germano and Kalmar??

[Tokyospliff]

Do we have any other pre-season games coming up before the derby?

[KSK_47]

Do we have any other pre-season games coming up before the derby?

Nope

[Tokyospliff]

hmm i have a feeling that JA is going to be a diasaster as coach this season if something dosen't change.

[cadete]

hmm i have a feeling that JA is going to be a diasaster as coach this season if something dosen't change.

And PPL say Cadete's Negative...

[Tokyospliff]

And PPL say Cadete's Negative...

I don't like the term negative, im not negative. Rather a "realist".

[belaguttman]

I'm just back from the game and still shocked at how concerning that performance was. We missed the first few minutes but unless I missed something special, our first shot on goal was around the 40 minute mark. We looked poor in every single position, it looked like Barcelona playing 11 park players who had never met before. Perth had shape and tactical awareness, used space well and played high tempo football. They pressed our 2 CBs, and just the previous 2 seasons we still can't play out from the back against a press so they almost always kicked long. That would be OK if we won second balls but we were second to nearly every ball, almost always reactive, out of shape. Our passing was very poor particularly in midfield where we struggled to string more than 3 passes without turning over the ball. Every time we were pressed, the ball was passsed backwards, or lost. We were very slow in transition, players actually stopping with the ball frequently and looking around the park to work out who to pass the ball to. In a way I don't blame them as there were no options, no movement off the ball, no space. It was hard to know what our tactical plan was as we had so little meaningful possession that it was a moot point anyway. Every player had poor touch, Mate, Marrone and Fred in particular. You'd never have guessed that Garcia played EPL, and Tadic was so bad and ineffectual that within 5 minutes of replacing him at around 75 minute mark Dylan McA had had much more impact on the game. We didn't press at all apart from about 10 minutes in the second half, we allowed Perth to completely dictate the game.

I could go on but I think that you get the picture...

In 3 practice games against HAL opponents we have scored 1 goal in 270 minutes of regular time, conceded 7.

Edited September 22, 2012 by belaguttman

[Heart of Melbourne]

I said it 6 weeks ago , we recruited badly, didulica needs to be made accountable for these rubbish transfers. It's great the the club is focused on community engagement but success on the field is about getting players that can make the difference. Never heard of tadic. We had a chance to get charisteas or Owen but we chose an unknown. Look at Sydney and Newcastle. Now these club have a vision and ambition. I was disappointed at the forum a few months ago and new that we were going to have an average season. Please I hope I'm wrong.

[Jimmy]

Bipolar.

[danny dyer doin da deed]

I said it 6 weeks ago , we recruited badly, didulica needs to be made accountable for these rubbish transfers. It's great the the club is focused on community engagement but success on the field is about getting players that can make the difference. Never heard of tadic. We had a chance to get charisteas or Owen but we chose an unknown. Look at Sydney and Newcastle. Now these club have a vision and ambition. I was disappointed at the forum a few months ago and new that we were going to have an average season. Please I hope I'm wrong.

surely taking the mick

[belaguttman]

I don't think that the problem is the quality of the players, we've recruited a team with player who have played EPL, Bundesliga, internationals, and who have played well for us in the past. The problem is with the team, not the individuals. This is an issue for the coaching staff to address with the players. The derby is in 2 weeks.

[jw1739]

Interesting.

Since we were second in the table at the end of 2011 we have, in 2012, played 18 matches against A-League opposition. 14 in the 2011-12 A-League itself, a single 2011-12 Finals Match, and three pre-season matches prior to season 2012-13.

We have won just two of those matches. 1-0 against GCU 17th February and 1-0 against CCM on 26th February. I do not count the penalty shoot-out against WSW as a 'win.'

In those 18 matches we have scored just 13 goals, and conceded 29.

The scorers of those 13 goals were Babalj(6), Sarkies(2), and Germano, Terra, Good, Dugandzic and Mebrahtu (1 each). Only Germano, Dugandzic and Mebrahtu are still with the club.

I didn't see today's game, but that doesn't really matter. Individual games are usually taken out of context - we all do that. Today's game is part of a pattern, and IMO it forms part of a very disturbing pattern indeed, the one that I have outlined above. There has to be a huge reversal of that pattern for us to be anything more than a bottom four side this year, and based on BG's report above it's difficult to see where that reversal is going to come from.

I too am less than impressed with our recruiting. Without doing a detailed analysis it does seem as though other clubs are able to secure visa players from all over the globe whereas we seem to be unable to lift our eyes too far from Eastern Europe. And locally we seem to leave everything to be picked over by the other clubs and then look at what's left.

[belaguttman]

I expect that we will improve, the question though is around how long it will take. I'm sure that all the players would be the first to admit that this performance was not acceptable in any way.

[Joel21]

Rather lose 5-0 now than in the derby, hopefully opens the eyes of JA and the rest of the team,

winning the derby is so important now

Edited September 22, 2012 by Joel21

[Torn Asunder]

I was at the game and it is fair to say that the performance was very, very poor.

Twitter quote from Garcia "Bad day at the office..... All guys very disappointed, but it's how we bounce back that matters....."

On the game, firstly our defence ... we could not play out from the back. It looks like PG and SC are similar in ability and unfortunately neither seem effective in playing out from the back, especially when pressed. Although he was only played for the last 10 minutes or so, when Vrankovic came on, he seemed assured in his passing and he looked solid and like he could be the right option if JA really wants the team to start its attacks from the back. Behich was perhaps our best player and will be better for the run, although in partnership with Williams, who played left attacker, the two need to work on their attacking partnership. Marrone was not at his best and was given a bath by Glory's new Japanese player Nagai (this guy seems to have some talent - get him in your Fantasy Team...)

Our midfield was very disappointing. Our central midfielders, the trio of Thompson, Fred & Garcia are all naturally very attacking, but today were disjointed, turned the ball over, were ill-disciplined and did not provide the link between defence and attack, especially when the defenders were trying to play out from the back. Jacob Burns had an easy afternoon (1st half only, then subbed, then Ward did the same thing) moving between the lines, shutting down many of our passing attempts in the first half. In terms of formations with our midfield, in the first half, we looked to be playing almost a 4-4-2, then in the second half, our efforts in midfield improved slighlty when Thomo and Fred sat back almost as a defensive midfield paring. Mate was OK, but his free kicks were ineffective and for some reason, every time we got a corner, it was played short, then shut down by Perth. Williams tried hard but seemed lost and the few times he got a fast break, he checked back, effectively ending the attack. One more note on Garcia. He does have obvious talent and I think he will be as effective as Fred. Hopefully JA can get the midfield mix right. At present we really need an assured true defensive midfielder in the starting 11. I would go with Germano, and start Fred and Garcia, then sub on Thompson as needed towards the end of the match.

With our forwards, Tadic had no service, but tried hard. Also, he did not look fully fit and he did not seem to be enjoying the sunny day, in fact most of the players seemed to struggle a little in the sun, fitness wise (compared to Perth). McAllister looked semi-dangerous and will be a good late sub during the season. Hoffman came on late and was disappointing.

During the 1st half I stood near Fergesan to see and hear first hand how he coached. He and his assistant were both very active, encouraging their players, directing them constantly. He had good rapport with his guys and they seemed to respect him. He made a few jokes, telling Heffernan that he would have made a pass, "if you had my ability". He also told Burns to "Shut the F$#@ up" after he made a mistake and tried to blame some of his team mates.

In the second half I stood near the Heart box to see how JA worked. Granted we were already three goals down, he seemed quite downcast, giving very liitle obvious instruction and direction to his players. When he did speak to them, he was quiet and seemed to be lacking in confidence and at times they would not have even heard what he was saying. Other than David Williams, the players did not look to him for guideance. Hayden Foxe was also quiet. In terms of inspiring the players and influencing change, today I saw no evidence of this, although he did exclaim often when the team played badly, and he did seem to know what he wanted them to do - just no obvious match day communication and impact today.

The team normally bounces back after a really bad game so hopefully things click into gear for round 1 .... and I think with a few minor tweaks, some luck, and a general lift in confidence from a well constructed goal, we have every chance to start the season with a win.

[Che]

Interesting statistics for everyone: Other than the WSW penaty shootout win Heart have never actually won a pre-season game against a HAL team. After our previous worst loss in the HAL, we then went undefeated for 6 games.

Not at all defending whatever shit was running around on the field today which sounded extremely worrying from the multiple accounts, but the next two weeks are more important than today's result.

Edited September 22, 2012 by Che

[Jake]

i've used my 'likes' but just wanted to add a thanks to those of you who provided such detailed reports. I appreciate you taking the time to do it. As far as the team goes, I just hope this will be a wake up call and we'll be good for the derby!

[Rellum]

Terrible loss by the sound of things. I agree with the above that the players we have signed are of good quality, good enough to get into the finals. The big question mark is over JA as a coach. I am one who believes that a A-League coach/manager has to do a long apprenticeship and prove their worth as a coach before getting a gig as an assistant coach in the A-League, let alone the senior job. So for me giving the big job to a guy basically because he was a great player(by Australian standards) is a massive gamble and one I think will back fire on the pitch.

[Peter]

There! That should have the other lot duped for October 5th.

[Sash]

I don't think that the problem is the quality of the players, we've recruited a team with player who have played EPL, Bundesliga, internationals, and who have played well for us in the past. The problem is with the team, not the individuals. This is an issue for the coaching staff to address with the players. The derby is in 2 weeks.

I agree. Individually, there's nothing wrong with the players we had out there. But as others have said, there was no harmony or understanding between them. It was like they'd never played together before. The first 30 minutes especially was really terrible. And while there was some improvement as the game went on, we never really got it together.

Where do you start? Tadic had no supply for the most part, but looked short of a gallop anyway. Macallister worked a lot harder when he came on, so on the basis of today, I'd start him in round 1. Williams is the one player that I still have big concerns about playing on the left. He can't take on defenders like Dugandzic and Behich can, and isn't really confident shooting on his left. So he ends up doing very little - doesn't get crosses in, doesn't get past defenders, and doesn't get many shots away on goals. I don't know if Mebrahtu would be much better, but I think Aloisi should be brave enough to give Garuccio a go at times seeing he's at least a natural left winger. We looked a lot better against Adelaide a few weeks ago when he and Behich combined down the left. Or even try using Behich on the wing and use someone else at left back.

I think Garcia will be a good addition to our midfield, but Fred didn't have a great day and Thompson didn't have much influence. In defence I thought there seemed to be a lack of understanding and confidence in each other. You could say that about the whole side really, but defence, more than anywhere else, is where you want to work as a unit. And as people have said, playing out from the back is a problem. Bolton and Colosimo are always a bit dodgy, and Gerhardt is either long ball or pass backwards.

Anyway, today was a massive wake up call. Pre season results are generally meaningless - the 1-2 and 0-0 results against Adelaide and West Sydney in themselves don't mean much. But today we had the full strength line-up we've been working towards, and its only 2 weeks from round 1. You can't even use the excuse of saying that we've got a new look squad. The only new additions from last year were Gerhardt, Garcia and Tadic.

It's not the end of the world, and we're certainly capable of playing a hell of a lot better than that. But today was really shit and we look a long way from being ready.

Edited September 22, 2012 by Sash

[HEARTinator]

Thanks for the reviews guys. What's obvious is that the team is not a team yet and JA & staff still have a lot to do. But I'm hoping that the derby brings everything into sharp focus. Hell if the boys can't get pumped for our big one then things are dire. We seem to have enough players to do the job so we'll have to see how things develop when points are on the line.

Edited September 22, 2012 by HEARTinator

[Tokyospliff]

I couldn't care less if we don't make finals and get the wooden spoon. As long as we are able to win the derby matches.

[Jimmy]

Wtf? Are you serious? I'd loose every derby if it guarantees we'll make finals and win the league.

[belaguttman]

Where do you start? Tadic had no supply for the most part, but looked short of a gallop anyway. Macallister worked a lot harder when he came on, so on the basis of today, I'd start him in round 1. Williams is the one player that I still have big concerns about playing on the left. He can't take on defenders like Dugandzic and Behich can, and isn't really confident shooting on his left. So he ends up doing very little - doesn't get crosses in, doesn't get past defenders, and doesn't get many shots away on goals.

I don't understand why Williams is never used as a striker or on the right. It isn't as if Mate's form is anything special at the moment.

[HeartFc]

Sack Aloisi.

[jw1739]

I don't understand why Williams is never used as a striker or on the right. It isn't as if Mate's form is anything special at the moment.

Just one of the questions that is being asked. The sad thing about yesterday's performance for me is not that it happened, but that many of the comments on it and the questions about it were being made throughout the second half of last season. None of this stuff is new - Bolton/Colosimo, Thompson, Williams, Hoffman, our free-kicks and corners...the list goes on.

IMO the crunch time for Aloisi is now, yes, right now - and the question is whether he has the balls to make the necessary changes to the team that he puts on the pitch and the way that they play, or is he just going to roll along with the crap that has been served up this pre-season?

[cadete]

I couldn't care less if we don't make finals and get the wooden spoon. As long as we are able to win the derby matches.

If u are that obsessed with the Mongs then u may as well be a Mong.

[Sash]

Ok. without wanting to sugar coat what was a bad day, I'm looking for positives or mitigating factors. Not much in the way of positives. Behich was good and I think Garcia could be very good at this level.

But as bad as we looked, we're probably ignoring where Perth are at right now. After a pre-season stewing on that grand final, they look like a team on a mission. They beat a full strength Victory a few days ago without Smeltz, Van den Brink, Heffernan and one or two others who played yesterday. They look like they're ready to hit round 1 running. We'll have to wait and see, but Perth might be be the form team early in the season.

We were overwhelmed early and never really settled. Part of the reason we crumbled was probably because Perth came to play with the intensity of the real stuff while our players were still in pre-season friendly mode. Our last proper hit out was against Richmond more than a week ago, while for some players, it was the Langwarrin game which was about as friendly as a game can get. It's better we have this reality check now instead of during the season. By giving us a wake up call and a benchmark of the level we need to be, there might be some good that came out of yesterday. (Or they've just killed our confidence and were stuffed.) Depends how the coaches and players react.

[toogood18]

I must say not going to the game I can't really comment, but I think it is better to be losing practice games 5-0 as long as the team learns from their mistakes and is able to see what Perth did and not make the same mistakes again.

Round 1 is where the really stuff starts, as long as the boys can switch on, might be the wake up call they need

[Mentor]

If nothing else Aloisi will have learnt a few things, what works ect, who mixes together. Who can play it out the back by the sounds of it. It is hard but you generally learn more form defeat. Read in saturdays paper that Fred was meant to be fit compared to last year but people said that Duga and him looked off of it? or is this just touch?