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Shahanga

Us & The League Table

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It seemed a thread to discuss “where we are at” would be useful. 
Right now we are 9 pts behind Scum, and 4 ahead of both Perth and Nux, though Perth have a game in hand.

There has been some talk on Fox etc about Perth’s form rise but Nux have been largely ignored, however they are on a serious roll, coming up from 11th.

We just haven’t been consistent enough to stay with Sydney and even if that changed tomorrow catching them would be difficult. Our best chance would be to see if we can improve enough during the year to challenge for the dunny seat and of course hold off the following pack.

DF80F4BA-B57D-47BA-9360-F7C3F62F4A76.jpeg

Edited by Shahanga
Table added as per suggestion

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@Shahanga Might be better to put the actual table in the post to avoid having to click from one screen to another?

As I see it we're almost at the half-way mark in the season of 26 matches, and Sydney are going to have to have a serious loss of form for anyone to overhaul them. Put it another way, City have got to win three more matches than Sydney for us to even draw level with them, and the other clubs have got to do even more than that. Sydney's form would appear to make that task impossible.

Realistically IMO we're playing for second place, although we must maintain the objective of winning every match and the belief that we can overhaul Sydney or else mentally we'll drop off and will then struggle to make second.

I've always said that every match is a six-pointer, and once more that has proved to be true. That stupid loss to Brisbane, and the one to Sydney, being the reason why we're not joint leaders right now.

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It's all relative. When you look at the Nix in terms of W/L, they're not a juggernaut: they're just not the rabble that they've been in recent years. When you look at Sydney's W/L, it's not an 'everyone else is playing for second' lead just yet, but it feels that way because Sydney puts everything in to every game, because they always believe they're in a game and because they don't lose premiers plates from this spot. The premiership was sewn up with Barbaroussis' goal against us.

Strictly in terms of W/L, we're in a good spot: clear in second and clearly the best performing Victorian team. The problem is around December or January, we've often been in this situation: being in a great position for 'at least' top two/GF appearance/Asian Champions League appearance and importantly (in terms of members and supporters) having a much stronger season than Victory. Then we shit the bed (often in spectacular fashion): have a month where we take 0-2 points, get overtaken, finish just above the middle of the table and Victory improbably leapfrogs us (or the difference is negligible).

So when we get here mid-season, rather than look at it like we're in a strong position, we just assume a team like Perth will go past us as Sydney's main challenge to complete the double, because that's the way it always goes down for us in the second half of the season.

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I will say though, a positive when looking at Sydney (and maybe Perth, depending on how the rest of this season plays out), is they were just like us a few years ago. It took Arnie a while to flick the switch, but now they're the league standard setters every year, even continuing after he finished. That and the fact that they're doing it with seemingly half the team being ex-City players (the vast majority of whom were modest at best during their time here) is enough to provide that eternal hope that things can change rapidly.

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7 minutes ago, SF33 said:

It's all relative. When you look at the Nix in terms of W/L, they're not a juggernaut: they're just not the rabble that they've been in recent years. When you look at Sydney's W/L, it's not an 'everyone else is playing for second' lead just yet, but it feels that way because Sydney puts everything in to every game, because they always believe they're in a game and because they don't lose premiers plates from this spot. The premiership was sewn up with Barbaroussis' goal against us.

Strictly in terms of W/L, we're in a good spot: clear in second and clearly the best performing Victorian team. The problem is around December or January, we've often been in this situation: being in a great position for 'at least' top two/GF appearance/Asian Champions League appearance and importantly (in terms of members and supporters) having a much stronger season than Victory. Then we shit the bed (often in spectacular fashion): have a month where we take 0-2 points, get overtaken, finish just above the middle of the table and Victory improbably leapfrogs us (or the difference is negligible).

So when we get here mid-season, rather than look at it like we're in a strong position, we just assume a team like Perth will go past us as Sydney's main challenge to complete the double, because that's the way it always goes down for us in the second half of the season.

 

1 minute ago, SF33 said:

I will say though, a positive when looking at Sydney (and maybe Perth, depending on how the rest of this season plays out), is they were just like us a few years ago. It took Arnie a while to flick the switch, but now they're the league standard setters every year, even continuing after he finished. That and the fact that they're doing it with seemingly half the team being ex-City players (the vast majority of whom were modest at best during their time here) is enough to provide that eternal hope that things can change rapidly.

You're making the point that it is indeed an issue of self-belief, or lack of it, in the fabric of the club. The club may continue to deny it but like you, IMO the records tell us otherwise. And every season that goes by in the same fashion makes the mountain harder to climb.

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10 hours ago, citypool said:

Imo we have to finish second. This club needs to evolve and play champions league it’s our destiny 

Maybe CFG will open up the checkbook if we qualify, surely they don’t want to have a bad showing playing against teams from their region?

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We're usually the team that plays shit teams into form and we got the chance against WU to run ourselves into form and almost f%$#ed it up, but the good thing is we got the win and I think we can build from that.

We play SFC in our very last match of the regular season (at home) so hopefully it will come to down to that match - winning team will be crowned Premiers! 🏆

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Can't see us making up 9 points out of a possible 42 remaining. 

Sydney for the first time really are starting to lose players via injury and suspension and when their ACL commitments begin it won't get any easier. Looking below us, Perth and Wellington are in good form and look like really the major threats, WU have IMO exceeded their maximum and no having a bye will drop and struggle to keep pace, Adelaide are interesting as from what I've seen them are a really good team but results would say otherwise and the tards seem to have begun a run, but probably too far back to catch us. 

Overall I think if we continue our run so far and minimize our losses we should finish second, top is beyond us.

So I would say the top 4 will end up being Sydney, Us, Perth and Adelaide.  In that order.

Edited by Jovan
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2 hours ago, Jovan said:

Can't see us making up 9 points out of a possible 42 remaining. 

Sydney for the first time really are starting to lose players via injury and suspension and when their ACL commitments begin it won't get any easier. Looking below us, Perth and Wellington are in good form and look like really the major threats, WU have IMO exceeded their maximum and no having a bye will drop and struggle to keep pace, Adelaide are interesting as from what I've seen them are a really good team but results would say otherwise and the tards seem to have begun a run, but probably too far back to catch us. 

Overall I think if we continue our run so far and minimize our losses we should finish second, top is beyond us.

So I would say the top 4 will end up being Sydney, Us, Perth and Adelaide.  In that order.

Just want to point out that Victory are closer to us than we are to Sydney.

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1 hour ago, haz said:

Just want to point out that Victory are closer to us than we are to Sydney.

That’s right, It’s by far not over and settled this ladder. I don’t see us at all being comfortable in second.

Edited by Mr MO

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5 hours ago, Jovan said:

Can't see us making up 9 points out of a possible 42 remaining. 

Sydney for the first time really are starting to lose players via injury and suspension and when their ACL commitments begin it won't get any easier. Looking below us, Perth and Wellington are in good form and look like really the major threats, WU have IMO exceeded their maximum and no having a bye will drop and struggle to keep pace, Adelaide are interesting as from what I've seen them are a really good team but results would say otherwise and the tards seem to have begun a run, but probably too far back to catch us. 

Overall I think if we continue our run so far and minimize our losses we should finish second, top is beyond us.

So I would say the top 4 will end up being Sydney, Us, Perth and Adelaide.  In that order.

Adelaide won't make fourth. At least one of Wellington or Victory will beat them to that. 

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Well it’s looking like Perth are going to be a massive threat to second place. Their GD is indicative of a strong team, quite a bit stronger than us. Wellington will also give us a run for our money for third. 

This is going to be tough.

 

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Victory are dog shit this season. Even Toivenen wants out.

This gif perfectly sums up this club

Falcon v2.gif

 

....YEEEAAHHHH.....ohh

 

Edited by Dylan

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10 hours ago, Harrison said:

Well it’s looking like Perth are going to be a massive threat to second place. Their GD is indicative of a strong team, quite a bit stronger than us. Wellington will also give us a run for our money for third. 

This is going to be tough.

Right now we don’t look like a top 3 side.

if we can replace Cabrera and get Genreau back that can change quickly though.

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12 hours ago, Harrison said:

Well it’s looking like Perth are going to be a massive threat to second place. Their GD is indicative of a strong team, quite a bit stronger than us. Wellington will also give us a run for our money for third. 

This is going to be tough.

Usually I'm not one for making excuses, but given we knew from the start that our visa signings were at best average, with subsequent injuries and repeated call-ups of our young players for national duty, we should not raise our expectations too high.

Our match squad for yesterday's match was loaded with Scholarship players - and we still should have won it - but an away draw isn't bad all things considered.

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8 hours ago, Shahanga said:

Right now we don’t look like a top 3 side.

if we can replace Cabrera and get Genreau back that can change quickly though.

Cabreara, with his single goal, has scored more goals than Genreau so not sure what you are basing that statement on. 

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1 minute ago, citymad said:

Cabreara, with his single goal, has scored more goals than Genreau so not sure what you are basing that statement on. 

I’m basing it on Cabrera having left and needing to be replaced. 

Also I think Genreau would bolster our midfield.

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If Wellington did finish third, we finished fourth and first or second won the Championship, would we be given an ACL spot given Wellington can’t compete?

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51 minutes ago, Harrison said:

If Wellington did finish third, we finished fourth and first or second won the Championship, would we be given an ACL spot given Wellington can’t compete?

I thought that I read on here that we had lost one of our places in the ACL?

Anyway, bugger these back-door ways of qualification. Go out there and win the League in your own right and show that you're a club with some bloody balls rather than hang on to Wellington's apron.

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56 minutes ago, Harrison said:

If Wellington did finish third, we finished fourth and first or second won the Championship, would we be given an ACL spot given Wellington can’t compete?

Yes

 

2 minutes ago, jw1739 said:

I thought that I read on here that we had lost one of our places in the ACL?

Anyway, bugger these back-door ways of qualification. Go out there and win the League in your own right and show that you're a club with some bloody balls rather than hang on to Wellington's apron.

From next season onwards i believe that the premiers plate gains an auto spot per usual, while the other two spots are playoff spots. So i guess we don't lose a spot, but we lose a guaranteed group spot.

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2 hours ago, bt50 said:

om next season onwards i believe that the premiers plate gains an auto spot per usual, while the other two spots are playoff spots

I thought it's only 1 playoff spot? But also depends how the teams go this year as good performance might get a spot back the following year 

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4 minutes ago, HughJass said:

I thought it's only 1 playoff spot? But also depends how the teams go this year as good performance might get a spot back the following year 

image.thumb.png.67346540bdea157558ccc09ae0bdd28f.png

 

image.png.54b032ccf548595b8890e035100ce846.png

Effectively they stopped taking the nations national results into account and we slipped right down. Still, we should be doing far better than a Thailand one would think. Perhaps another reason the cap should be arsed.

Edited by bt50

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8 minutes ago, playmaker said:

New signing could possibly change our standings forcast. 

Could we hold onto 2nd?

There is certainly a lot more competition for 2nd right now... If we can stop dropping games to the teams below and not lose too many points to Perth and Wellington then we can do it. 

However we have a huge liability in goals with floganis and he is going to cost us games the longer he plays... 

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On 13/01/2020 at 12:36 PM, Harrison said:

If Wellington did finish third, we finished fourth and first or second won the Championship, would we be given an ACL spot given Wellington can’t compete?

Feel like it's our manifest destiny to finally make the ACL through some shit like this.

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It probably says everything you need about our history but beyond going on with our current position within the league, it's really important and a great opportunity to establish this club as the undisputed best Melbourne/Victorian A-League team.

We've been here before, starting like a house on fire while Victory seem in disarray, then they finish the season with a kick, while we fade badly. The years when we have finished above Victory at the end of season, they always seem to go as far, or even further than us in the finals. If we've been better in a season previously, it's been pretty negligible.

There's an opportunity to finish best of the Victorian clubs by 3-5 spots and go a 2-3 weeks further in the finals (if WU and MV even make it) this year.

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The next four weeks before the bye can pretty much tell us everything we need to know about this team. Perth at home, Adelaide away, derby and Wellington away. I'd say seven points as an absolute minimum if we're serious about staying in the top two.

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I still think we’re a small chance for the Premiership. Sydney and Perth will have to deal with the ACL and they will drop points. We have Sydney once and Perth twice, so we can take points off them then too. 

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48 minutes ago, Harrison said:

I still think we’re a small chance for the Premiership. Sydney and Perth will have to deal with the ACL and they will drop points. We have Sydney once and Perth twice, so we can take points off them then too. 

Sydney FC never do well in the ACL and rarely drop points at teh same time. I don't think that it is a priority for them and given that the refs are all internationals they don't get away with as much and are not given any kicks. So I don't expect Sydney FC to do tumble down.

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25 minutes ago, NewConvert said:

Sydney FC never do well in the ACL and rarely drop points at teh same time. I don't think that it is a priority for them and given that the refs are all internationals they don't get away with as much and are not given any kicks. So I don't expect Sydney FC to do tumble down.

Last season we beat them 2-0 after they had two ACL matches before us. They then drew in the derby after their third ACL match and lost to Newcastle in the fourth ACL match. The quick three/four day backup does affect them. 

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The next six games will decide our fate. Perth twice (once at home and once away), trips to Adelaide and Wellington and the derby. Looking at that block I can really only pencil in 3 points against Brisbane at home.

We’ll get what we deserve, win 5 out of 6 and we can realistically start dreaming of Asia, which frankly is where a club of this stature and financial backing should be playing. 

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This Perth team will require something completely different from us. Our quick long balls and early crosses aren’t the answer to beating them (to a short Luna and Jmac), WSW just tried and didn’t even get near the goal. Tall defenders plus they drop 8/9 players back behind the ball in defence consistently, like clockwork not once did they get caught.

Edited by Mr MO

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According to Fox, this is the most points we've ever had after 14 games.

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25 minutes ago, Mr MO said:

This Perth team will require something completely different from us. Our quick long balls and early crosses aren’t the answer to beating them (to a short Luna and Jmac), WSW just tried and didn’t even get near the goal. Tall defenders plus they drop 8/9 players back behind the ball in defence consistently, like clockwork not once did they get caught.

See anything that looked like a weakness? Given it’s the A League they will have one.

Certainly they’re quality on paper and with a faultless play reader like Kilkenny screening the defence, it means they are tough to catch napping.

All I can think is that the constant travel grind for them must be a challenge and with 5 (or is it 6?) wins in row momentum might be slipping. 
Anyway if we can win we’ll be in front of them regardless of the game in hand.

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